I was super, super excited when I saw people picked Phoenix Wright in the finals. It was exciting. A super rare character, and both teams had him, so it was essentially a crazy 2 on 2 match with a wild card thrown in. That sounds super entertaining to watch.
On top of that, I had also read numerous reports from people at the event about how poorly run it was, and how it essentially was treated like a vacation on an island and you also played some games. Hell, they even cancelled Smash because no one showed up. And I think the whole Marvel pool was like, 28 people.
I saw no problem with it, but I do understand the intention of the rule. I just hope it doesn't lead to extremely boring matches over and over and over. Half the fun of Evo was watching people switch teams to try and match or psyche out opponents.
Creativity and counter picking isn't being policed though. Its obvious when people don't give a fuck.
I agree with the vxg comment though. In no way should it be looked at as a legit tournament.
Would it be considered collusion if say, both teams at the Superbowl run a new play the media hasn't seen either of them run before?
I mean "We've never seen you do X so if you do X now you're a cheat even though X is a perfectly legal move." is kind of horseshit.
This is a horrible comparison.
What this was like, was the two opposing coaches going up to each other in the middle of the Superbowl, giggling, and then the team with the ball and the lead decide to kneel down on 4th down, to give the opposing team the chance to kick a field goal, giving them the win and beating the spread.
And then splitting the media earnings and Super Bowl Rings 50/50
Also, like Spooky said last night, if the two finalists want to split the pot just say so. No reason to waste everyones time streaming a match that the players don't care about, especially when there's still more games to be played on the stream.
Collusion happens all the time, but it's way more common earlier on in tournaments, and that's usually given a pass because it's not finals and nobody cares.
For example, a group of people will travel to a tournament from out of town. It's considered polite to mix up the brackets so that people who travel together don't have to play against each other, since who wants to spend 6 hours in a bus or a car only to end up playing against the same people they always play against? What then happens is that a couple of those people start to progress in the brackets, and eventually have to play against each other. They may decide that one of them has a better chance of progressing, or has a better character matchup against the suspected grand finals player, so they'll hand over the win. Sometimes it's the reverse, where the home players want to make sure that someone from out of town doesn't win their tournament. It can get even messier with different formats. I was in an ironman tournament once where people who had calculated that they could no longer place just started giving their wins to other players who could.
Thing is, nobody cares till it's the finals, or maybe top 8 if the tournament is big enough. Everyone should remember that one of the biggest reasons Soulcalibur wasn't at EVO for so long was because during the Soulcalibur 2 grand finals two guys who were friends and regularly pot split just picked a random mirror match (I believe it was Voldo, with neither of them playing him regularly) and fucked around for 15 minutes while the crowd got madder and madder.
Sirlin did an article about tournament organization a while back to prevent standings based lame duck or guaranteed win situations that tend to lead to thrown matches, the short of it is that a lot of the round robin followed by playoff formats suck, and random seeding between rounds is a good thing. The other point he made (and I wish I could find the article) is that forfeiture should always be an option, because it's better to have a bye in a situation where someone is a lame duck or sure placer than a match that's boring because someone wants to throw it. As to pot splitting, if someone wants to declare themselves co-grand champions or whatever, let them, but people need to remember people pay to go to these things and put them on, and the purpose is not just competition but entertainment, and if someone shits on the enjoyment of the stream watchers and tournament organizers they might find themselves unwelcome no matter how good they are.
I think it's even worse now that everyone is on a team. Two members from the same team meet in the loser's finals, one plays Rufus (but is probably a better player), the other plays Sagat, and the guy in the grand finals plays Zangief. Who wins loser's finals?
Hopefully they realize whomever wins Loser's finals probably has the best shot, since they prove to be the better player that day. Alternatively, they decided whomever lost in Winner's finals takes the dive to give the other person a shot.
Ultimately, while it'd be best if everything is on the up and up, the pot splitting and collusion don't really matter if we - the audience, the other players, the organizers - can't tell. It's when the players themselves plainly don't give a fuck that the whole thing looks like a farce.
GREAT long-form article on Giant Bomb about the whole Collusion controversy. Interviews with Tom Cannon, S-Kill, UltraDavid and more. Has some very good YouTube videos that illustrate some of the more salient points. Required reading for anyone who feels like weighing in on this matter.
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mojojoeoA block off the park, living the dream.Registered Userregular
Yatagarasu Attack on Cataclysm that indie-PC fighting game being developed by some ex-SNK developers ended up with over $118,000 funded. That means a 3rd and 4th character over the planned 2 new characters. Anyone who donated can vote for one of the remaining four character concepts until this Friday.
I got a chuckle over one of their stretch goals being dynamic english commentary from James Chen, UltraDavid and Maximilian. Might be a hoot to see how that plays out.
Big East Coast Tournament this weekend in Phili - Summer Jam VII
I have had Yatagarasu for a bit and I've been meaning to try it out. I like the 3rd Strike inspirations, and the art is nice, even if the animations are lacking.
I think they teased that Orchid might be the next reveal - but yeah November seems like a WAAAY too early release date for KI. The only thing I'm thinking is that we'll see maybe 4 more characters (B. Orchid, TJ Combo, Fulgore, Cinder) and then they'll do post release DLC characters.
Considering the game is free to play, I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a majority of characters as DLC over time.
This Killer Instinct remake is in a weird place. Being the first real next gen fighting game, an xbox exclusive in a world where nobody runs tournaments on xbox consoles (and that was before they went with the always online stuff from the xbone), and also announced before Capcom gave the next gen the middle finger (which was fair enough, since nobody wants to be backwards compatible anyway). This will be the first time where not only the peripherals that everyone owns become obsolete, but also their games, and during a time when many last gen games are still getting major tournament play (at least when it went from ps2 to ps3 most of the ps2 games were dead, and the ps3 was backwards compatible).
Well, I know some are xbox, or primarily. But I don't really play those games.
The points that still stand are that A: Capcom isn't going next gen, B: this is the first time both the games and the sticks won't be compatible with the new generation.
I don't it's that big of a deal for a couple of reasons.
Capcom IS eventually going to go next gen, just not for a while. Is waiting 3 or 4 years for a XBone or PS4 Capcom fighter a little much? Maybe. But we've had a massive drought of Capcom fighters before. SFIII Third Strike and Marvel 2 came out in '99 and 2000 and.... that was pretty much it until SFIV in 2008. People just used arcade cabinets or Dreamcasts to play the games. No Xboxs or PS2s needed.
Nothing is going to become obsolete because no matter how big the PS4 and Xbone are on release, the previous models are too well established to just disappear over night. PS2 sales lasted well into the PS3's lifecycle, and that did have backwards compatibility (well, the early models did anyways). Even if everyone stops making games for the Xbox and PS3 a year from now, the consoles themselves are going to be relevant for another 4 to 5.
Since KI is free to play, that overcomes a pretty major barrier for penetration, since if you own an Xbone there's no reason NOT to download the game. Whether people will go all in and support the game to the point that it's still getting regular updates and content years after release is something we're just going to have to wait and see.
Edit: and by free to play I do mean just having Jago. We'll see how much the full game ends up and if there's any kind of season's pass.
The difference between ps2 to ps3 and ps3 to ps4 is that nobody cared because they were still playing games from the dreamcast, or Tekken and Soulcalibur (those being ps2 exclusive really cemented things for a lot of people). Tourneys could run whatever because it was more localized, and people knew what they were getting. At launch if there are zero fighting games that can be played on the ps4, and 1 half-assed game that can be played on the xbone, and people are required to have ps3s still for SF4's next iteration, then what's the incentive to upgrade, especially for tourney organizers. It goes from being able to run multiple games on the same setups to needing multiple setups and sticks for different games (which isn't that uncommon right now, but it's been a long time, so many people have collected multiple systems and gotten dual modded sticks or pads). Especially now that more people have shelled out for dual modded sticks. It's just adding extra money barriers for everyone. I already went through that since I had a 360 and all tourneys were run on ps3s, meaning I always had to go from practising on a stick at home to playing on a pad (because 3d fighting game players are weird and prefer pads) at tourneys and gatherings. Not something I'm looking forward to again.
I don't think it will be a big problem for many, but I know I was super bummed out when Sony said the ps4 wouldn't be able to use ps3 peripherals even though it's also going to be usb input (I think).
Well, if there's no incentive to upgrade, then people won't upgrade? It's inevitable that tourneys are going to eventually move into the next gen, but that won't happen on any kind of a wide (or hell, even local) scale until the games are there and there's a guaranteed user-base that'll show up.
Hell, didn't we just see a god damn N64 game at EVO? People will play what they want to play, we'll still be seeing 360s and PS3s at tourneys for years to come. Maybe KI will be at EVO 2014, but it'll certainly be one of the smaller tournaments. If it takes off, then we might see it appear at other majors and the size of the pool entries continue to grow.
I agree that the sticker shock of buying all new hardware sucks when moving to a new gen, especially when you've sunk mad bank into what you have now. Hell, I know I'll never use my Rock Band instruments for anything other than my 360, but that just means I'll always keep my 360 handy even if I eventually replace it as my main console.
I've spent a few nights over in Salty Bet's Dream Casino. Shit is so ridiculous I was crying with laughter a few times. I can't decide what was the better moment, when Evil Homer (Homer Simpson in a red devil suit) ran an absolute train over Raoh from Fist of the Northstar. Or when Raphael from TMNT lamed out a win from Crono Trigger's Magus by taking the life lead and then doing a psycho crusher out of the top of the screen for a TO victory.
While Divekick does look like a worthy local party game, apparently one (or both?) of the versions have some kind of default open-mic setting. Which is making for some hilarious recounts of overheard nerd-rage.
According to Jebailey on Twitter, it's at least Steam that has open mic defaulted. I haven't noticed it occuring on PSN in any match I've been in (and I also have my Vita mic disabled).
As for local vs. not, local is of course better but I'm a babby and never make it to anything in the area. The netplay's been pretty good, though.
3DS: 2466-2307-8384 PSN: bssteph Steam:bsstephanTwitch:bsstephan Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e Occasional words about games:my site
I had the Xbox version and found Spawn to have a pretty fun moveset. Was always disappointing they didn't re-use it for custom moveset characters in any of the sequels, all they'd need to do would be remove the flying stance and fireball.
They borrowed a bunch of his stuff for Lizardman in sc5.
Daishi himself explained that guest characters are under strict control by their owners, which is why they can't be customized, and also why they can't reuse entire movesets. They can borrow some stuff if they change the animations, but it has to be piecemeal to avoid problems. There will probably never be a direct copypaste of an old guest character moveset into a brand new character, and that was even with Daishi running things (he personally oversaw the design of most guest characters in SC4, and really liked them, and even appreciated that they were getting competitive play).
A character like K9999 is different since he wasn't actually a licensed character, and so became a potential legal issue, which is why his look was redesigned, but not his moves.
Anyone happen to pick up Jojo's All Star Battle? I've only had the chance to watch a couple CPU battles since I got it, but it is stylish as all hell. Looks pretty fun, but I still need to find some system translations before diving in, because my Japanese is... introductory, at best.
3DS: 2466-2307-8384 PSN: bssteph Steam:bsstephanTwitch:bsstephan Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e Occasional words about games:my site
If I wanted to start playing fighting games, and not just button mash, where would I start?
Depends on where you want to start. Suggestions:
* take your favorite character and concentrate on the tutorial/challenge mode stuff, and then mess with it against a training dummy
* play every character's training mode in SSF4 through the first five/ten challenges to get used to the game's "language"
* play Skullgirls' tutorial, since it explains a lot of FG fundamentals in a clear way, better than most other games
* pick up a game that starts with a low technical/execution bar and slowly eases you onto other topics, like Persona 4 Arena's auto-combo to learning how to combo yourself to getting challenges down
* hit up a wiki for your game and try to picture doing all of your favorite character's stuff without actually doing it, to visualize the game
Maybe a better first step: what game do you want to learn?
3DS: 2466-2307-8384 PSN: bssteph Steam:bsstephanTwitch:bsstephan Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e Occasional words about games:my site
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Creativity and counter picking isn't being policed though. Its obvious when people don't give a fuck.
I agree with the vxg comment though. In no way should it be looked at as a legit tournament.
I mean "We've never seen you do X so if you do X now you're a cheat even though X is a perfectly legal move." is kind of horseshit.
It would be highly suspect if both teams put in third string players in lieu of their starting rosters to run those new plays.
Edit:
More applicable comment below.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
This is a horrible comparison.
What this was like, was the two opposing coaches going up to each other in the middle of the Superbowl, giggling, and then the team with the ball and the lead decide to kneel down on 4th down, to give the opposing team the chance to kick a field goal, giving them the win and beating the spread.
And then splitting the media earnings and Super Bowl Rings 50/50
For example, a group of people will travel to a tournament from out of town. It's considered polite to mix up the brackets so that people who travel together don't have to play against each other, since who wants to spend 6 hours in a bus or a car only to end up playing against the same people they always play against? What then happens is that a couple of those people start to progress in the brackets, and eventually have to play against each other. They may decide that one of them has a better chance of progressing, or has a better character matchup against the suspected grand finals player, so they'll hand over the win. Sometimes it's the reverse, where the home players want to make sure that someone from out of town doesn't win their tournament. It can get even messier with different formats. I was in an ironman tournament once where people who had calculated that they could no longer place just started giving their wins to other players who could.
Thing is, nobody cares till it's the finals, or maybe top 8 if the tournament is big enough. Everyone should remember that one of the biggest reasons Soulcalibur wasn't at EVO for so long was because during the Soulcalibur 2 grand finals two guys who were friends and regularly pot split just picked a random mirror match (I believe it was Voldo, with neither of them playing him regularly) and fucked around for 15 minutes while the crowd got madder and madder.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
Ultimately, while it'd be best if everything is on the up and up, the pot splitting and collusion don't really matter if we - the audience, the other players, the organizers - can't tell. It's when the players themselves plainly don't give a fuck that the whole thing looks like a farce.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
I got a chuckle over one of their stretch goals being dynamic english commentary from James Chen, UltraDavid and Maximilian. Might be a hoot to see how that plays out.
Big East Coast Tournament this weekend in Phili - Summer Jam VII
I have had Yatagarasu for a bit and I've been meaning to try it out. I like the 3rd Strike inspirations, and the art is nice, even if the animations are lacking.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
So, where is Orchid?
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
Considering the game is free to play, I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a majority of characters as DLC over time.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
This Killer Instinct remake is in a weird place. Being the first real next gen fighting game, an xbox exclusive in a world where nobody runs tournaments on xbox consoles (and that was before they went with the always online stuff from the xbone), and also announced before Capcom gave the next gen the middle finger (which was fair enough, since nobody wants to be backwards compatible anyway). This will be the first time where not only the peripherals that everyone owns become obsolete, but also their games, and during a time when many last gen games are still getting major tournament play (at least when it went from ps2 to ps3 most of the ps2 games were dead, and the ps3 was backwards compatible).
It's going to be a strange transition.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
I take it you havent gone to any tournaments recently..
The points that still stand are that A: Capcom isn't going next gen, B: this is the first time both the games and the sticks won't be compatible with the new generation.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
Capcom IS eventually going to go next gen, just not for a while. Is waiting 3 or 4 years for a XBone or PS4 Capcom fighter a little much? Maybe. But we've had a massive drought of Capcom fighters before. SFIII Third Strike and Marvel 2 came out in '99 and 2000 and.... that was pretty much it until SFIV in 2008. People just used arcade cabinets or Dreamcasts to play the games. No Xboxs or PS2s needed.
Nothing is going to become obsolete because no matter how big the PS4 and Xbone are on release, the previous models are too well established to just disappear over night. PS2 sales lasted well into the PS3's lifecycle, and that did have backwards compatibility (well, the early models did anyways). Even if everyone stops making games for the Xbox and PS3 a year from now, the consoles themselves are going to be relevant for another 4 to 5.
Since KI is free to play, that overcomes a pretty major barrier for penetration, since if you own an Xbone there's no reason NOT to download the game. Whether people will go all in and support the game to the point that it's still getting regular updates and content years after release is something we're just going to have to wait and see.
Edit: and by free to play I do mean just having Jago. We'll see how much the full game ends up and if there's any kind of season's pass.
I don't think it will be a big problem for many, but I know I was super bummed out when Sony said the ps4 wouldn't be able to use ps3 peripherals even though it's also going to be usb input (I think).
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
Hell, didn't we just see a god damn N64 game at EVO? People will play what they want to play, we'll still be seeing 360s and PS3s at tourneys for years to come. Maybe KI will be at EVO 2014, but it'll certainly be one of the smaller tournaments. If it takes off, then we might see it appear at other majors and the size of the pool entries continue to grow.
I agree that the sticker shock of buying all new hardware sucks when moving to a new gen, especially when you've sunk mad bank into what you have now. Hell, I know I'll never use my Rock Band instruments for anything other than my 360, but that just means I'll always keep my 360 handy even if I eventually replace it as my main console.
I just started watching. Pink Glacius is back by popular demand.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
I've spent a few nights over in Salty Bet's Dream Casino. Shit is so ridiculous I was crying with laughter a few times. I can't decide what was the better moment, when Evil Homer (Homer Simpson in a red devil suit) ran an absolute train over Raoh from Fist of the Northstar. Or when Raphael from TMNT lamed out a win from Crono Trigger's Magus by taking the life lead and then doing a psycho crusher out of the top of the screen for a TO victory.
Is anyone playing Divekick? I finally did ranked matches yesterday and am enjoying the hell out of it.
Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e
Occasional words about games: my site
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
As for local vs. not, local is of course better but I'm a babby and never make it to anything in the area. The netplay's been pretty good, though.
Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e
Occasional words about games: my site
http://gematsu.com/2013/08/soulcalibur-ii-hd-includes-both-heihachi-spawn
I had the Xbox version and found Spawn to have a pretty fun moveset. Was always disappointing they didn't re-use it for custom moveset characters in any of the sequels, all they'd need to do would be remove the flying stance and fireball.
Pretty sure we're not going to see Link at all.
Daishi himself explained that guest characters are under strict control by their owners, which is why they can't be customized, and also why they can't reuse entire movesets. They can borrow some stuff if they change the animations, but it has to be piecemeal to avoid problems. There will probably never be a direct copypaste of an old guest character moveset into a brand new character, and that was even with Daishi running things (he personally oversaw the design of most guest characters in SC4, and really liked them, and even appreciated that they were getting competitive play).
A character like K9999 is different since he wasn't actually a licensed character, and so became a potential legal issue, which is why his look was redesigned, but not his moves.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e
Occasional words about games: my site
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Start by asking questions here or at the se++ thread. Depending on the questions, we can post helpful links to awesome websites.
I'm sure a lot of developers have games they want to make, big if if they get to make them.
That said I can see DD and a new Devil May Cry.
Rival Schools will stay locked away though.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Depends on where you want to start. Suggestions:
* take your favorite character and concentrate on the tutorial/challenge mode stuff, and then mess with it against a training dummy
* play every character's training mode in SSF4 through the first five/ten challenges to get used to the game's "language"
* play Skullgirls' tutorial, since it explains a lot of FG fundamentals in a clear way, better than most other games
* pick up a game that starts with a low technical/execution bar and slowly eases you onto other topics, like Persona 4 Arena's auto-combo to learning how to combo yourself to getting challenges down
* hit up a wiki for your game and try to picture doing all of your favorite character's stuff without actually doing it, to visualize the game
Maybe a better first step: what game do you want to learn?
Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e
Occasional words about games: my site