Newest KOF trailer features some short guys. I'm slowly allowing myself to get excited for this game as more and more cool characters are revealed and I come to terms with the fact that it's never going to look good.
Newest KOF trailer features some short guys. I'm slowly allowing myself to get excited for this game as more and more cool characters are revealed and I come to terms with the fact that it's never going to look good.
How do you prevent Zangief crossup Fierce into lower kick and then Piledriver? I can spot it and block both hits but I repeatedly get grabbed afterward.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited March 2016
Dash backwards if you've got a fast one (I never can grab people if they're backwards dashing, even in the corner, for some idiotic reason) or jump away. As long as the Gief player isn't anticipating you jumping away, you can escape all of his ground grabs (even his ultra SPD sometimes, if you started jumping before the attack fires off). Even if you eat a couple of light punches, it's a lot better than eating a light SPD.
The downside is that if you jump away to escape every time, a Gief player will catch on and grab you with air SPD, which has reach for miles. Gief's overhead chop will also snag you as you try to get away, and let the Gief player learn when you tend to jump away. Not a perfect escape, but should still work a lot of the time.
You can also use any of the seemingly thousands of instant-startup specials that seem to be in the game, and fire it off after that first ground hit. It will beat the followup, if it's a hit or an SPD.
Or try for a throw, if you're close enough. Point-blank, standard throws beat Gief's command throws every time because of the long SPD startup.
regular throw won't work on block in that situation
holding up or doing an invincible special best answers if you know he's going to command grab
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited March 2016
Yeah, if the throw won't work, instant/invincible special or jump are the best options. The instant/invincible special option is the safest bet, if your character has one; it will interrupt Gief completely, and give him no way to counter your escape with an air grab.
Jumping straight up is pretty risky to do with any kind of regularity, though, because I want to pushing people into jumping a lot of the time as Gief; he can pretty safely grab almost everybody in the air, up to and including sometimes grabbing people out of dragon punches as they leave the ground.
How do you prevent Zangief crossup Fierce into lower kick and then Piledriver? I can spot it and block both hits but I repeatedly get grabbed afterward.
@Ninja Snarl P already got the most important parts, but I wanted to add something about what character states are valid targets for throws. Any time you're considered airborne, you are invincible to ground throws. Any time you're considered grounded, you're invincible to air throws. Hit stun and block stun are also invincible to throws, (with exceptions that don't apply to this question.)
For the most part, you want to avoid throws using the airborne state. If you hold up, you are instantly in "pre-jump frames" which are considered airborne, even if you're not technically off the ground yet. Any time a grab is coming, you can beat it by holding up. If you do a neutral jump over a whiffed grab, you can come back down with heavy kick or whatever into full combo.
Backdash is also considered an airborne state, and that's a valid response too, but it can get punished pretty hard if your opponent reads it.
Basically, this situation is a mix-up, and it comes down to being able to read your opponent to escape.
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
So there are two things leading to some major frustration for me at this point: there are way too fucking many attacks that double as great AA or Gief's air attacks give him an enormous hitbox that reaches well beyond his body, and the command buffering is insanely overactive.
For the first, it is completely absurd that an air fierce kick from Gief gets reliably countered by crouching light attacks. Not stuff that actually attacks upwards at all, but attacks that literally happen at ground level. And Gief still gets knocked down, with zero damage to the opponent. Some characters seem to be able to counter air attacks with almost any regular attack, which is just stupid; Chun-Li in particular can throw out just about any attack and it will beat anything Gief can use from the air.
The second problem is getting to be enormously frustrating, because the game keeps having Gief throw out SPD attacks at insanely wrong times. On more than one occasion, I've had the stick at neutral for at least a second, gone for a jump with a punch right from the start... and thrown out an SPD instead. It is enormously jarring, because there's no possible way I accidentally rotated the stick 270 degrees just before the jump, the game is just holding on to inputs for far too long. And to be honest, I can't think of a way to even stop it; if I don't get a clean slate from dropping the stick to neutral, then I'll have to learn to game the command system so it won't keep having Gief throw out SPDs at completely the wrong times because I'm putting in a lot of inputs pretty quickly. Which would just be stupid and impractical, to try and figure out how long the game is keeping my inputs before I can "safely" attempt the attacks I actually want to do.
It is real fun-killer to be in a tough fight and watch all three bars evaporate when that jump you were going for magically transforms into an ultra SPD instead, with that opponent you were trying to grab instead coming down on top of you in mid-stagger. Which is remarkably easy to have happen when you buffer in a ground SPD input and change your mind, go neutral for a second, and then go for an air grab instead.
The first issue can, even if it's a stupid design thing, at least be mitigated against most characters, but I have no clue what to do about the second problem.
Old-school champion Thomas Osaki was perhaps the most extreme example of never giving anything away. He played his hardest, ALL the time. Even against little kids who wandered up to the machine, he was firing off sonic booms at the maximum possible rate, and hitting them with tick throws. For him, the key to execution was constant practice, against anyone, anywhere. He was on fire, all the time.
There was this thing in most arcades where people expected mercy rounds. Some principle about the only people making money or caring about the time involved were the owners, so who cares? You blow someone up the first round, it was polite to give them the second. That could be anything from standing still and taking the beating, to pounding them to their last sliver of health before ringing yourself out.
Of course, then someone would lose the last round after giving a mercy round and get salty about it. It was worse in 2D fighters, because most 3D games did best of 5, so if you're up 2 rounds you feel much safer giving away 1. Plus, it's generally easier to dismantle a poorer player when the games are mix-up heavy and have things like ring-outs and tech traps.
But that grind was relentless. I stopped doing it, especially if there was someone else waiting. Smash them as quickly as possible to get to the next match. If they come back for more, maybe they'll learn something. Plus, nobody likes sandbaggers. Of course, there's always a risk. I dominated the DOA2 machine so hard everyone else stopped playing. Which wasn't ideal.
On another note, I like the removal of TKOs in SF5 for the same reason I like that feeling of the "last quarter" effect in 3D fighters. You're never out of it till the round actually ends. Not to say 2D fighters don't have their share of comebacks, but there was something magical about that feeling of guessing right every time to pull a win out of your ass, or watching someone else do it. Or even having someone do it to you.
So there are two things leading to some major frustration for me at this point: there are way too fucking many attacks that double as great AA or Gief's air attacks give him an enormous hitbox that reaches well beyond his body, and the command buffering is insanely overactive.
For the first, it is completely absurd that an air fierce kick from Gief gets reliably countered by crouching light attacks. Not stuff that actually attacks upwards at all, but attacks that literally happen at ground level. And Gief still gets knocked down, with zero damage to the opponent. Some characters seem to be able to counter air attacks with almost any regular attack, which is just stupid; Chun-Li in particular can throw out just about any attack and it will beat anything Gief can use from the air.
The second problem is getting to be enormously frustrating, because the game keeps having Gief throw out SPD attacks at insanely wrong times. On more than one occasion, I've had the stick at neutral for at least a second, gone for a jump with a punch right from the start... and thrown out an SPD instead. It is enormously jarring, because there's no possible way I accidentally rotated the stick 270 degrees just before the jump, the game is just holding on to inputs for far too long. And to be honest, I can't think of a way to even stop it; if I don't get a clean slate from dropping the stick to neutral, then I'll have to learn to game the command system so it won't keep having Gief throw out SPDs at completely the wrong times because I'm putting in a lot of inputs pretty quickly. Which would just be stupid and impractical, to try and figure out how long the game is keeping my inputs before I can "safely" attempt the attacks I actually want to do.
It is real fun-killer to be in a tough fight and watch all three bars evaporate when that jump you were going for magically transforms into an ultra SPD instead, with that opponent you were trying to grab instead coming down on top of you in mid-stagger. Which is remarkably easy to have happen when you buffer in a ground SPD input and change your mind, go neutral for a second, and then go for an air grab instead.
The first issue can, even if it's a stupid design thing, at least be mitigated against most characters, but I have no clue what to do about the second problem.
The first thing is a sometimes very deliberate inclusion! The game is different, but the principle is the same. You'll notice that Gief has some attacks that reach really far down vertically, like j.MK, which help him deal with this.
The second problem is historically a problem for some other characters, too. Walking forward and throwing a fireball without inputting a back direction results in walk-forward DP. In this specific case, you'll definitely want to check with the training room what the inputs your stick is actually feeding to the game. In fact, in the case of sticks, characteristics of the physical hardware can actually be used to do SPDs in unusually fast ways, but it's bad when it's doing it not because you wanted to.
How do you prevent Zangief crossup Fierce into lower kick and then Piledriver? I can spot it and block both hits but I repeatedly get grabbed afterward.
While this isn't exactly what you asked, the two better options you should aim for when they are available:
- anti-air the jump-in
- evade the jump-in
If Zangief has successfully made you block a crossup jump-in, it means that he has gotten himself a real tactical win. While it's generally true that getting the opponent to block a jump-in that you are safe with is a tactical win, in Gief's case it is really huge. It means he's got both frame advantage (important because a lot of his normals aren't that fast), and is in range to threaten with his command grabs (which have significant startup that is going to be partly covered by the frame advantage of the jump in or the move following it). You haven't lost life as a result of blocking the jump-in, but you are in a bad spot. What has already been posted about beating/getting out of the command grab is good advice: many characters simply have to guess holding up or holding back on the stick when they don't have any super meter. Even when you've seen the jump-in clearly and know you can block it easily, make a decision as early as possible as to whether blocking is really the best thing to do.
Man, KOF is one of those games I like to watch but suck at playing. I mean, the one on one fights? Sure, give me Kyo and I'm set. But I never quite got the hang of how you create teams ala MvC3.
Man, KOF is one of those games I like to watch but suck at playing. I mean, the one on one fights? Sure, give me Kyo and I'm set. But I never quite got the hang of how you create teams ala MvC3.
A lot of it is based on preference, but considerations should be made for which characters make the best use of meter. Also order can change based on match ups, player tendencies, etc.
Man, KOF is one of those games I like to watch but suck at playing. I mean, the one on one fights? Sure, give me Kyo and I'm set. But I never quite got the hang of how you create teams ala MvC3.
It really just comes down to which (1) character works best with no meter, (3) which character works best with lots of meter, and (2) which character can do well in either situation. But before you worry about that, you gotta find three characters you like!
Not sure if it's the second one. Isn't she a secret character for Neowave or a Dreamcast port of the series? Maybe one Kof Ex GBA games. Guessing Maximum Impact wouldn't count. :P
She does show up in SNK vs Capcom iirc.
Is there a video for Alex out? Surprised there is only screens. If the Red Bull Kumite is this next weekend then Ono or Combofiend will demo him.
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XBL - ArchSilversmith
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited March 2016
There is definitely something fucky about Nash's hitbox. He's walked out of multiple SPD grabs on me; not grabs where he was half a step away and I was using the heavy SPD and out of range, but right next to me and using the light or EX SPD. The throws miss, and he's doing nothing but walking backwards. Gief's V-trigger clothesline also can't grab him from as far as other characters, if he's blocking.
It's like Nash's hitbox shifts way the hell backwards anytime he's pressing away, ignoring where it actually shows him on screen.
Ninja Snarl P on
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Liquid GhostDO YOU HEAR THE VOICES, TOO?!Registered Userregular
edited March 2016
well, i have king and mature. that will do until i can find an alternate costume for a female character that allows me to add her to team classy stylish ladies.
well, i have king and mature. that will do until i can find an alternate costume for a female character that allows me to add her to team classy stylish ladies.
I mean, Vice is right there.
It's a shame Vanessa isn't coming back so I won't be shaking up my King/Vice/Mature team, but at least motherfucking Tizoc is going to give me something new to play around with.
Everyone is different. Everyone is special.
+1
Liquid GhostDO YOU HEAR THE VOICES, TOO?!Registered Userregular
my fucking god that's brilliant
i just... i just miss elisabeth a little bit y'know
Nakoruru was also in Neo-Geo Pocket's Queen of Fighters, but that's a bit of a mixed bag of various ladies (and Iori) from all kinds of Neo-Geo games. I get that thematically, SamSho/Last Blade doesn't fit into the KoF universe, but considering some of the strikers they put in for KoF2k/2k1 and the roster selections for all of the crossover games (SNK vs. Capcom, Capcom vs. SNK, Battle Colosseum), I'm glad they're just going to stick a team in there whose ending will probably amount to "Whoa, how'd we get here? Who are these weird people? Who cares, we have to fight to find a way home!"
Shingo was last playable in 2002 Unlimited Match, which was another full roster game, no importance to the story arcs at the time. His last game was KoF EX Neo Blood, but only as a striker. He's only done cameos in story modes since.
XI is the game that everyone remembers for awkward tag combos, Oswald, and a lot of fun combo videos. It was the first non-yearly entry, and they went all-out with making changes. Coming after 2k3, which was meh and also came after 2k2, which was awesome. But that's when they were going through some rough times, so it's easily forgiven.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwdNo5B7WwI
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The new mode is something called Shadowlords - looks like some kind of upgrade to shadow mode.
That was my favorite moment of a series of awesome moments.
http://shoryuken.com/2016/03/10/mad-catz-releases-xinput-drivers-for-street-fighter-v-products/
I just tried it and it worked as soon as I remembered to do the last step. Remember to read the instructions. With your eyeballs.
But not the TE2 (non +)
Newest KOF trailer features some short guys. I'm slowly allowing myself to get excited for this game as more and more cool characters are revealed and I come to terms with the fact that it's never going to look good.
Yup this.
Also lets play 13 on steam sometime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTdQ7Xx4Q34
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The downside is that if you jump away to escape every time, a Gief player will catch on and grab you with air SPD, which has reach for miles. Gief's overhead chop will also snag you as you try to get away, and let the Gief player learn when you tend to jump away. Not a perfect escape, but should still work a lot of the time.
You can also use any of the seemingly thousands of instant-startup specials that seem to be in the game, and fire it off after that first ground hit. It will beat the followup, if it's a hit or an SPD.
Or try for a throw, if you're close enough. Point-blank, standard throws beat Gief's command throws every time because of the long SPD startup.
holding up or doing an invincible special best answers if you know he's going to command grab
Jumping straight up is pretty risky to do with any kind of regularity, though, because I want to pushing people into jumping a lot of the time as Gief; he can pretty safely grab almost everybody in the air, up to and including sometimes grabbing people out of dragon punches as they leave the ground.
@Ninja Snarl P already got the most important parts, but I wanted to add something about what character states are valid targets for throws. Any time you're considered airborne, you are invincible to ground throws. Any time you're considered grounded, you're invincible to air throws. Hit stun and block stun are also invincible to throws, (with exceptions that don't apply to this question.)
For the most part, you want to avoid throws using the airborne state. If you hold up, you are instantly in "pre-jump frames" which are considered airborne, even if you're not technically off the ground yet. Any time a grab is coming, you can beat it by holding up. If you do a neutral jump over a whiffed grab, you can come back down with heavy kick or whatever into full combo.
Backdash is also considered an airborne state, and that's a valid response too, but it can get punished pretty hard if your opponent reads it.
Basically, this situation is a mix-up, and it comes down to being able to read your opponent to escape.
For the first, it is completely absurd that an air fierce kick from Gief gets reliably countered by crouching light attacks. Not stuff that actually attacks upwards at all, but attacks that literally happen at ground level. And Gief still gets knocked down, with zero damage to the opponent. Some characters seem to be able to counter air attacks with almost any regular attack, which is just stupid; Chun-Li in particular can throw out just about any attack and it will beat anything Gief can use from the air.
The second problem is getting to be enormously frustrating, because the game keeps having Gief throw out SPD attacks at insanely wrong times. On more than one occasion, I've had the stick at neutral for at least a second, gone for a jump with a punch right from the start... and thrown out an SPD instead. It is enormously jarring, because there's no possible way I accidentally rotated the stick 270 degrees just before the jump, the game is just holding on to inputs for far too long. And to be honest, I can't think of a way to even stop it; if I don't get a clean slate from dropping the stick to neutral, then I'll have to learn to game the command system so it won't keep having Gief throw out SPDs at completely the wrong times because I'm putting in a lot of inputs pretty quickly. Which would just be stupid and impractical, to try and figure out how long the game is keeping my inputs before I can "safely" attempt the attacks I actually want to do.
It is real fun-killer to be in a tough fight and watch all three bars evaporate when that jump you were going for magically transforms into an ultra SPD instead, with that opponent you were trying to grab instead coming down on top of you in mid-stagger. Which is remarkably easy to have happen when you buffer in a ground SPD input and change your mind, go neutral for a second, and then go for an air grab instead.
The first issue can, even if it's a stupid design thing, at least be mitigated against most characters, but I have no clue what to do about the second problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m6ectb23PA
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
Of course, then someone would lose the last round after giving a mercy round and get salty about it. It was worse in 2D fighters, because most 3D games did best of 5, so if you're up 2 rounds you feel much safer giving away 1. Plus, it's generally easier to dismantle a poorer player when the games are mix-up heavy and have things like ring-outs and tech traps.
But that grind was relentless. I stopped doing it, especially if there was someone else waiting. Smash them as quickly as possible to get to the next match. If they come back for more, maybe they'll learn something. Plus, nobody likes sandbaggers. Of course, there's always a risk. I dominated the DOA2 machine so hard everyone else stopped playing. Which wasn't ideal.
On another note, I like the removal of TKOs in SF5 for the same reason I like that feeling of the "last quarter" effect in 3D fighters. You're never out of it till the round actually ends. Not to say 2D fighters don't have their share of comebacks, but there was something magical about that feeling of guessing right every time to pull a win out of your ass, or watching someone else do it. Or even having someone do it to you.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
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The first thing is a sometimes very deliberate inclusion!
The game is different, but the principle is the same. You'll notice that Gief has some attacks that reach really far down vertically, like j.MK, which help him deal with this.
The second problem is historically a problem for some other characters, too. Walking forward and throwing a fireball without inputting a back direction results in walk-forward DP. In this specific case, you'll definitely want to check with the training room what the inputs your stick is actually feeding to the game. In fact, in the case of sticks, characteristics of the physical hardware can actually be used to do SPDs in unusually fast ways, but it's bad when it's doing it not because you wanted to.
While this isn't exactly what you asked, the two better options you should aim for when they are available:
- anti-air the jump-in
- evade the jump-in
If Zangief has successfully made you block a crossup jump-in, it means that he has gotten himself a real tactical win. While it's generally true that getting the opponent to block a jump-in that you are safe with is a tactical win, in Gief's case it is really huge. It means he's got both frame advantage (important because a lot of his normals aren't that fast), and is in range to threaten with his command grabs (which have significant startup that is going to be partly covered by the frame advantage of the jump in or the move following it). You haven't lost life as a result of blocking the jump-in, but you are in a bad spot. What has already been posted about beating/getting out of the command grab is good advice: many characters simply have to guess holding up or holding back on the stick when they don't have any super meter. Even when you've seen the jump-in clearly and know you can block it easily, make a decision as early as possible as to whether blocking is really the best thing to do.
Is that Nakoruru?
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
you generally want a character who can do meterless or 1 hd bar/1 super worth of bnb as ur first, to get lots of meter for other chars
then a second character who can do the same but has wall carry hd combos since youll have a full bar by then
and finally a anchor who you are best with and who you know full hd -> neomax combos
take into account matchup specific character picks and youll have a good start
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A lot of it is based on preference, but considerations should be made for which characters make the best use of meter. Also order can change based on match ups, player tendencies, etc.
It really just comes down to which (1) character works best with no meter, (3) which character works best with lots of meter, and (2) which character can do well in either situation. But before you worry about that, you gotta find three characters you like!
She does show up in SNK vs Capcom iirc.
Is there a video for Alex out? Surprised there is only screens. If the Red Bull Kumite is this next weekend then Ono or Combofiend will demo him.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
It's like Nash's hitbox shifts way the hell backwards anytime he's pressing away, ignoring where it actually shows him on screen.
Of course I am garbage with everybody, so I still get to play who I want.
Play me in 13!
I mean, Vice is right there.
It's a shame Vanessa isn't coming back so I won't be shaking up my King/Vice/Mature team, but at least motherfucking Tizoc is going to give me something new to play around with.
i just... i just miss elisabeth a little bit y'know
now i have to learn how to play vice
dat laugh etc
Team Nako/Angel/Athena represent.
Steam: TheArcadeBear
More footage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3QhWr2Qz5c
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
And Vanessa is probably my favourite KOF character, but everyone wants her in. You know who I really miss? Shingo and Shermie.
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Wiki says XI.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Steam: TheArcadeBear
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
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