Why do people think that 50% more robots means you'll need more ammo? You'll have 50% more robots on your side with ammo.
it actually is a factor to your stamina. There will be times, and I'd think more often than not, where ammo dependant mechs will engage for the full duration of a fight.
How many times have you run out or come close to running out of ammo in an 8v8 fight? how many times have you had teammates knocked out in the opening minutes of
a skirmish?
You are going to wish you had an extra ton of ammo at the ass end of fights, especially if you had been engaging since the opening salvos.
But I have 50% more allies to kill those 50% more enemies. The only time I would worry about more ammo is when I'm severely outnumbered, in which case I'm likely to die anyway.
You are assuming those 50% extra allies are just as skilled as those 50% extra enemies. It will never come out that way. More often then not, your enemies will always be better then your allies. You can't imagine the game in a vacuum, because it's not.
You assume *I* would be as skilled as those 50% extra allies. Seriously, I don't win or lose games by myself.
Why do people think that 50% more robots means you'll need more ammo? You'll have 50% more robots on your side with ammo.
it actually is a factor to your stamina. There will be times, and I'd think more often than not, where ammo dependant mechs will engage for the full duration of a fight.
How many times have you run out or come close to running out of ammo in an 8v8 fight? how many times have you had teammates knocked out in the opening minutes of
a skirmish?
You are going to wish you had an extra ton of ammo at the ass end of fights, especially if you had been engaging since the opening salvos.
But I have 50% more allies to kill those 50% more enemies. The only time I would worry about more ammo is when I'm severely outnumbered, in which case I'm likely to die anyway.
You are assuming those 50% extra allies are just as skilled as those 50% extra enemies. It will never come out that way. More often then not, your enemies will always be better then your allies. You can't imagine the game in a vacuum, because it's not.
You assume *I* would be as skilled as those 50% extra allies. Seriously, I don't win or lose games by myself.
Most of the time you do, believe it or not. The vast majority of Oosik players are better then average at this game. I have won more games then I can count by myself. I'm sure many others have as well.
The point is, you can't look at things in one situation. You can't assume it will be a level playing field. It will almost NEVER be. The whole 50%/50% can't work. Sometimes its close, sometimes its not even in the same ballpark. When the Test Server goes back up for 12v12, try it. You will notice ammo limits immediately in a round or two.
Why do people think that 50% more robots means you'll need more ammo? You'll have 50% more robots on your side with ammo.
it actually is a factor to your stamina. There will be times, and I'd think more often than not, where ammo dependant mechs will engage for the full duration of a fight.
How many times have you run out or come close to running out of ammo in an 8v8 fight? how many times have you had teammates knocked out in the opening minutes of
a skirmish?
You are going to wish you had an extra ton of ammo at the ass end of fights, especially if you had been engaging since the opening salvos.
But I have 50% more allies to kill those 50% more enemies. The only time I would worry about more ammo is when I'm severely outnumbered, in which case I'm likely to die anyway.
You are assuming those 50% extra allies are just as skilled as those 50% extra enemies. It will never come out that way. More often then not, your enemies will always be better then your allies. You can't imagine the game in a vacuum, because it's not.
You assume *I* would be as skilled as those 50% extra allies. Seriously, I don't win or lose games by myself.
Most of the time you do, believe it or not. The vast majority of Oosik players are better then average at this game. I have won more games then I can count by myself. I'm sure many others have as well.
The point is, you can't look at things in one situation. You can't assume it will be a level playing field. It will almost NEVER be. The whole 50%/50% can't work. Sometimes its close, sometimes its not even in the same ballpark. When the Test Server goes back up for 12v12, try it. You will notice ammo limits immediately in a round or two.
From playing 12v12 on test I didn't notice much of a problem with it actually, not any more than in 8v8. In the end I guess we're just going to have to wait and see until this hits the live server. At best it'll be like nothing's changed, at worst builds will have to be adjusted to pack more ammo, or ammo per ton will have to be boosted, or it will simply be an indirect ballistics nerf.
Wait... So lets back track to this fast fire skill + chain fire thing. This should affect every elited mech. Can anyone else confirm this is a problem, because it should probably be brought to PGIs attention.
Fist fire bringing down the chain fire time below the 0.5 second threshold is not good.
Dont think it can be tested i the lab because skills still dont work there?
Wait... So lets back track to this fast fire skill + chain fire thing. This should affect every elited mech. Can anyone else confirm this is a problem, because it should probably be brought to PGIs attention.
Fist fire bringing down the chain fire time below the 0.5 second threshold is not good.
Dont think it can be tested i the lab because skills still dont work there?
In the Training Grounds, my JM6-A, S and DD all can chain-fire AC/20s without penalty.
In game, my A and S can not. My DD can (it doesn't have fast fire).
Attention Oosiks: Due to the wonky state of hit detection, I highly advise you all to utilize chain fire on grouped SRMs. You'll find that you'll end up doing much more consistent damage since the dice rolls will happen on each individual weapon instead of having to be rolled against the one big group.
Note: Figurative dice rolls which means "will the game actually register this shot."
Extra Note: This is basically applicable to any weapon really.
Yeah it's not going anywhere. I can still get 2 alphas before I overheat (the third would put me over). However in brawls I have to switch to stagger fire so it's a nice mix of alphas and stagger fire instead of just alphas over and over.
But yeah the heat is totally manageable so I wouldn't expect to much of a drop in Jagerbombs. (Although the ones we came across we steamrolled easily)
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Yeah it's not going anywhere. I can still get 2 alphas before I overheat (the third would put me over). However in brawls I have to switch to stagger fire so it's a nice mix of alphas and stagger fire instead of just alphas over and over.
But yeah the heat is totally manageable so I wouldn't expect to much of a drop in Jagerbombs. (Although the ones we came across we steamrolled easily)
You can switch to chain-fire... unless you've elited your mech. In which case, chain-fire is 0.48s and you get the heat penalty regardless.
Otherwise, I agree. People charge you now, when you're a jagerbomb. They're like 'COME KILL ME!' and you're like 'BOOM..... BOOM............BOOM.....BOOM.... ok'
Yeah it's not going anywhere. I can still get 2 alphas before I overheat (the third would put me over). However in brawls I have to switch to stagger fire so it's a nice mix of alphas and stagger fire instead of just alphas over and over.
But yeah the heat is totally manageable so I wouldn't expect to much of a drop in Jagerbombs. (Although the ones we came across we steamrolled easily)
You can switch to chain-fire... unless you've elited your mech. In which case, chain-fire is 0.48s and you get the heat penalty regardless.
Otherwise, I agree. People charge you now, when you're a jagerbomb. They're like 'COME KILL ME!' and you're like 'BOOM..... BOOM............BOOM.....BOOM.... ok'
I don't like chain firing weapons in general. I just have them set on different weapon groups and take care of it myself
It actually feel a lot more fun, although i'm still crap at killing lights.
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Figured I would swap out to a dual UAC5 build from my standard AC10 set up for something new. And I had a lot of weight left even with ammo and such. So I maxed my leg armor, put some more UAC5 ammo and was like what else can I do?
I could add an AMS and be smart. But no that is no fun.
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Yeah, the alpha boating stuff is definitely still here and PPCs absolutely need to go back to the original heat values (like they should have months ago), but the lopsidedness of fights has been enormously reduced. We got stomped a few times, but were still able to get a ton of wins in the face of lots of PPCs. If we'd bothered with our own heavies/assaults as a general rule instead of having a blast in lights and whatnot, things would've been pretty viciously one-sided in our favor.
Seriously, the old "just one more fight" enjoyment is back, at least until everybody picks up the best boating mechs over the next couple of weeks. Lots of great wins and kills; we didn't win our last match due to massive weight imbalance (again), but I was still happy to bum rush a Highlander while taking fire from four mechs to core the bastard on one skinny little Jenner leg.
The next patch should cement balance a lot more solidly, though, if they bother to up PPC heat like they should along with making ERPPCs and PPCs as part of the same heat scale pool. Balance coming back more is also emphasizes just how enormously we need weight balancing back in the game, because if people couldn't stack assault/heavy PPC boats without getting fed back the same, the already-reduced PPC boating would be HUGELY less of an issue.
that might be it, bill.
ninja and myself ran with two others in a 4 man for a couple hours.
also, 2 srm4s and an Mlas in a Com-2D have quite the punch. I'm still trying to figure out how to stuff a third one in there without resorting to paper armor or 1 ton of ammo
CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
edited July 2013
We ran into a couple of premades still seriously boating PPCs a couple of times, but for the most part they're not as ubiquitous. Just heavier games overall, and way more Atlases now that 40-60 damage alphas are not as big of a concern. Still can't wait for tonnage balancing to make a comeback.
And that MLAS heat nerf? Yeah, not really an issue...
Of course I wouldn't have gotten near that much damage if Kaeb hadn't DCed at the start ;-)
Good games as always this evening gents.
PPCs will always be a problem until they get their heat put back where it's supposed to be. I had been saying prior to the patch "meet the new boss, same as the old boss." Gauss + PPCs will still dominate higher end play just like it did prior to the PUGs catching on to it as well. Hence, I will still be avoiding eight mans like the fucking plague because I remember that they were still pinpoint ghettos even before pug play became awful.
+2
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Oh, yeah, 8-mans would still be total hell; PPC boating is really only a major problem right now when you come across the douchebags who decide to run a quad unit of PPC assaults. Coming across 8 of that would ragequit time.
But absolutely, get those PPCs/ERPPCs in the same heat scaling pool and bring the PPC heat up to what it was originally and the large-scale PPC boating will largely go away. Atlases won't be sporting a load of PPCs + gauss any more if the heat cost means anything in close range is going to completely shred them, and just putting the PPCs/ERPPCs in the same scaling pool will make the assault PPC issue go away on a lot of mechs.
Changes are still enough right now that I feel like the game has turned the corner back to being generally fun, even if the rare one-shot-kill still happens. At least mediums are now no longer the easy prey of everything and don't have to work three times as hard and four times as smart to be able to fight against the overwhelming waves of PPC boats; I've had a blast with Centurions for much of the day, whereas before they were just a complete grind if you weren't sporting PPCs.
+2
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Am I a bad person for using a dual PPC Dragon (with triple MG backup), or a dual PPC Trebuchet (with triple ML backup), or a dual PPC Catapult (with GR 'backup', though I usually just run the Quadapult and PLAY SMART), or a dual PPC Ultramets (with dual UAC5 'backup')...?
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
0
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Am I a bad person for using a dual PPC Dragon (with triple MG backup), or a dual PPC Trebuchet (with triple ML backup), or a dual PPC Catapult (with GR 'backup', though I usually just run the Quadapult and PLAY SMART), or a dual PPC Ultramets (with dual UAC5 'backup')...?
My own personal brand of butt hurt only gets inflamed by the 2xPPC+GR build. That's just from my aversion to top tier builds in general though.
How the devil do you run that Ultramets without cooking yourself?
Am I a bad person for using a dual PPC Dragon (with triple MG backup), or a dual PPC Trebuchet (with triple ML backup), or a dual PPC Catapult (with GR 'backup', though I usually just run the Quadapult and PLAY SMART), or a dual PPC Ultramets (with dual UAC5 'backup')...?
My own personal brand of butt hurt only gets inflamed by the 2xPPC+GR build. That's just from my aversion to top tier builds in general though.
How the devil do you run that Ultramets without cooking yourself?
I actually run the Ultramets with dual LL and two UAC5. I tried PPCs and LPLs, but LLs were just better. Because I had more HS/ammo.
Am I a bad person for using a dual PPC Dragon (with triple MG backup), or a dual PPC Trebuchet (with triple ML backup), or a dual PPC Catapult (with GR 'backup', though I usually just run the Quadapult and PLAY SMART), or a dual PPC Ultramets (with dual UAC5 'backup')...?
My own personal brand of butt hurt only gets inflamed by the 2xPPC+GR build. That's just from my aversion to top tier builds in general though.
How the devil do you run that Ultramets without cooking yourself?
I actually run the Ultramets with dual LL and two UAC5. I tried PPCs and LPLs, but LLs were just better. Because I had more HS/ammo.
Yeah, that's how I run mine. Seems to be a pretty sweet spot between heat and damage. Had some great matches with it last night now that the chance of being one shotted are down significantly.
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Oh god, I was getting close to 1k damage repeatedly.
Incidentally, a friend of mine is having some AWESOME games in an AS7-D-DC with 2xLB10X, 3xSRM6 w/artemis, and 2xML. You should try it out sometime, it is a brawling MONSTER.
Posts
I'll just leave this here.
You can believe what you want elitistb.
Next topic.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
Most of the time you do, believe it or not. The vast majority of Oosik players are better then average at this game. I have won more games then I can count by myself. I'm sure many others have as well.
The point is, you can't look at things in one situation. You can't assume it will be a level playing field. It will almost NEVER be. The whole 50%/50% can't work. Sometimes its close, sometimes its not even in the same ballpark. When the Test Server goes back up for 12v12, try it. You will notice ammo limits immediately in a round or two.
I played many games today.
And had a great time.
So get on your apocalypse britches, BECAUSE IT'S A COMIN':
From playing 12v12 on test I didn't notice much of a problem with it actually, not any more than in 8v8. In the end I guess we're just going to have to wait and see until this hits the live server. At best it'll be like nothing's changed, at worst builds will have to be adjusted to pack more ammo, or ammo per ton will have to be boosted, or it will simply be an indirect ballistics nerf.
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
Come watch as my rusty ass gets back in the swing of things.
twitch.tv/theoosiks
I was amazed myself. I was basically cored.
Yes you were.
Also I admit I never thought I'd see you playing like this with such boyish glee.
Also splatcat.
Fist fire bringing down the chain fire time below the 0.5 second threshold is not good.
Dont think it can be tested i the lab because skills still dont work there?
In the Training Grounds, my JM6-A, S and DD all can chain-fire AC/20s without penalty.
In game, my A and S can not. My DD can (it doesn't have fast fire).
Don't you mean 1000 kg of lead pellets?
Easy fix for alpine, move the bases to different locations and closer together for 8 vs 8.
Now that dual ac20 is nerfed, maybe I can ride the jagerbomb without shame and Practise heat management
Note: Figurative dice rolls which means "will the game actually register this shot."
Extra Note: This is basically applicable to any weapon really.
RETREAT TO VICTORY!
And Charlie is a Victor. This could be a major plot point in future seasons.
Yeah it's not going anywhere. I can still get 2 alphas before I overheat (the third would put me over). However in brawls I have to switch to stagger fire so it's a nice mix of alphas and stagger fire instead of just alphas over and over.
But yeah the heat is totally manageable so I wouldn't expect to much of a drop in Jagerbombs. (Although the ones we came across we steamrolled easily)
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
You can switch to chain-fire... unless you've elited your mech. In which case, chain-fire is 0.48s and you get the heat penalty regardless.
Otherwise, I agree. People charge you now, when you're a jagerbomb. They're like 'COME KILL ME!' and you're like 'BOOM..... BOOM............BOOM.....BOOM.... ok'
I don't like chain firing weapons in general. I just have them set on different weapon groups and take care of it myself
It actually feel a lot more fun, although i'm still crap at killing lights.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Figured I would swap out to a dual UAC5 build from my standard AC10 set up for something new. And I had a lot of weight left even with ammo and such. So I maxed my leg armor, put some more UAC5 ammo and was like what else can I do?
I could add an AMS and be smart. But no that is no fun.
So I threw a pair of MGs on it.
Why Not [JM6-S]: 2xUAC/5, 2xMG, 4xMLAS, 260STD, DHS, Endo, Ferro
Not enough space shotguns? If not that, then not enough small pulse lasers?
dont get me wrong, the heat patch was needed. now they just need to put ppcs back to their original heat value... like they should have...
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
Seriously, the old "just one more fight" enjoyment is back, at least until everybody picks up the best boating mechs over the next couple of weeks. Lots of great wins and kills; we didn't win our last match due to massive weight imbalance (again), but I was still happy to bum rush a Highlander while taking fire from four mechs to core the bastard on one skinny little Jenner leg.
The next patch should cement balance a lot more solidly, though, if they bother to up PPC heat like they should along with making ERPPCs and PPCs as part of the same heat scale pool. Balance coming back more is also emphasizes just how enormously we need weight balancing back in the game, because if people couldn't stack assault/heavy PPC boats without getting fed back the same, the already-reduced PPC boating would be HUGELY less of an issue.
Maybe it's a issue with fighting premades of 3-4.
Yes, weight balancing will go a long, long way to fixing this alpha meta as well.
ninja and myself ran with two others in a 4 man for a couple hours.
also, 2 srm4s and an Mlas in a Com-2D have quite the punch. I'm still trying to figure out how to stuff a third one in there without resorting to paper armor or 1 ton of ammo
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
And that MLAS heat nerf? Yeah, not really an issue...
Of course I wouldn't have gotten near that much damage if Kaeb hadn't DCed at the start ;-)
Good games as always this evening gents.
But absolutely, get those PPCs/ERPPCs in the same heat scaling pool and bring the PPC heat up to what it was originally and the large-scale PPC boating will largely go away. Atlases won't be sporting a load of PPCs + gauss any more if the heat cost means anything in close range is going to completely shred them, and just putting the PPCs/ERPPCs in the same scaling pool will make the assault PPC issue go away on a lot of mechs.
Changes are still enough right now that I feel like the game has turned the corner back to being generally fun, even if the rare one-shot-kill still happens. At least mediums are now no longer the easy prey of everything and don't have to work three times as hard and four times as smart to be able to fight against the overwhelming waves of PPC boats; I've had a blast with Centurions for much of the day, whereas before they were just a complete grind if you weren't sporting PPCs.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
also this
piranah plz
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
My own personal brand of butt hurt only gets inflamed by the 2xPPC+GR build. That's just from my aversion to top tier builds in general though.
How the devil do you run that Ultramets without cooking yourself?
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
Yeah, that's how I run mine. Seems to be a pretty sweet spot between heat and damage. Had some great matches with it last night now that the chance of being one shotted are down significantly.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
Incidentally, a friend of mine is having some AWESOME games in an AS7-D-DC with 2xLB10X, 3xSRM6 w/artemis, and 2xML. You should try it out sometime, it is a brawling MONSTER.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991