btw overheating to death and getting a kill is the most glorious way to go. I will always salute an enemy who does that.
I had a match where a Trebuchet on our team at the start did an alpha strike at our base, shut down, then blew up from overheating. I wish I knew what he killed himself with exactly but he promptly logged off in shame.
So I keep hearing everyone complain about how huge the Kintaro's CT is, but a giant CT and teensy tiny STs are pretty much the defining attribute that makes Cats and Dragons good because it makes them really favorable to run with XLs. Why is it a benefit for them but a detriment for the KNT?
Yeah I've been thinking about that the other day. Hypothetically if all mechs were balanced, they would have the same ratio of CT/ST, since hit chances in tabletop are universal between mechs. On the other hand, in MWO mechs with small ST's can get away with running XL's, because they never get taken out in that manner. So is that a bug or a feature? (Well, I'm pretty sure it's bad planning on PGI's part, but if they suddenly "fixed" the problem, would some people be upset that there XL builds are suddenly more vulnerable?)
I have also seen this.
0
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
So I keep hearing everyone complain about how huge the Kintaro's CT is, but a giant CT and teensy tiny STs are pretty much the defining attribute that makes Cats and Dragons good because it makes them really favorable to run with XLs. Why is it a benefit for them but a detriment for the KNT?
Medium weight-class armor totals.
Yeah, huge CTs on lights and mediums are effectively a death sentence. In my Jenners, I only die in one of two ways: legged or cored. This means that whatever armor I put in as side armor is generally wasted, because it never comes into play but I can't risk not armoring them just in case you take that one lucky double PPC/heavy ballistic shot to the side. Dragons and Cats have narrow side torsos, but they still get hit in them plenty, and can still rotate to absorb fire into them in order to stay alive longer. The thing with the Jenner is dumb, but you at least you have the speed to evade most hits; the Kintaro is WAY bigger and slower, so it just soaks up everything thrown at it.
With the Kintaro, basically any hit on the torso is a CT hit, which makes them as durable as a wet tissue in a tornado because they can never, ever slough damage off to their side torsos. There's effectively zero reason to not take an XL because of that, which is stupid because it means the mech dies so easy that putting in something that should make it die easier has no effect at all. Unless the thing they're attacking is basically ignoring them completely, they will immediately take severe, threatening damage as soon as they recieve fire.
When they fix the Kintaro hitboxes to be something actually sane, then Kintaro survivability is going to go WAY up, regardless of which engine type is in use.
When they fix the Kintaro hitboxes to be something actually sane, then Kintaro survivability is going to go WAY up, regardless of which engine type is in use.
That's assuming they ever actually fix it, which I'm sure they will get right on after they fix mech scaling. /sarcasm
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited August 2013
Hey now, it only took them a measly 6-9 months to fix the Raven. I'm sure we could expect a hitbox fix as soon as the end of this year. :P
Anyway. Generally, the matchmaker is shit and sticks you with 5 stupid lights on your team three games in a row (ALL DIFFERENT PILOTS, TOO). And sometimes, by sheer chance, you get a halfway-balanced match and get to absolutely wail on people with some hot Wang fury:
Yes, they lost terribly, but not for lack of firepower; most of us were down by Theta, and three of them (a Highlander, a Jenner, and a Hunchback) dropped over the cliff one by one to land between me and a brawler Highlander, after many of us had already dropped down to annihilate a dumb Cataphract who decided to follow a Jenner to Theta. The rest was a running battle where we basically teamwork-shredded everything, finishing off with one of those lameass lazy LRM Stalker builds who was a waste of space most of the match because his missiles couldn't hit anything over the cliff. By the time he waddled close enough, he was the only one left and got murdilated.
Want weight matching in so hard so people will stop being lazy asses by just stacking LRMs on assaults, because they can get away with a lot of the time when they have five other assaults to hang around with.
There is a reason I call the Kintaro a huge ass commando. I think people treating as a brawler like a Cataphract or even a Hunch is kind of playing it wrong. Kintaros are rogues. Should be hiding behind much much bigger things and swooping out and unloading a huge missile barrage. A good alpha does about 50 damage which isn't anything to sneeze at.
I think part of it is we have only seen Golden Boys so far. They are slow. The standard Kintaro starts with a 275 which lets it run about 80 kph. I am planning on running 300xls in mine for a 88.5 kph without speed tweak. 96 with speed tweak. Still fast, will have an almost identical missile alpha as my Golden Boy. And a good amount faster.
They will make good supports for sprinturions. Add a good amount of damage to a medium lance, especially with whatever the medium buffs in the next patch are.
So I keep hearing everyone complain about how huge the Kintaro's CT is, but a giant CT and teensy tiny STs are pretty much the defining attribute that makes Cats and Dragons good because it makes them really favorable to run with XLs. Why is it a benefit for them but a detriment for the KNT?
Medium weight-class armor totals.
This. Also, in regards to the Catapult and Dragon: The Catapult only has a big CT RELATIVE to the tiny side torsos. It's cross-section from the front is really not that huge. A bigger problem is it's head is easier to hit than probably any other 'mech. The Dragon's schnoz, on the other hand, IS a big survivability problem, and is the reason why Dragons can't be stand-up fighters and are fairly uncommonly seen.
+2
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I've always felt like the Dragon CT was way too damned huge, but at least it can sport heavy enough armor to be survivable. I don't see any good reason why the side torso hitboxes aren't moved out onto the sides of the massive big-rig CT somewhat, so people can't handily core them from actually behind them. They can be a great chassis, but the CT is still excessively oversized, especially now that getting popped with easy 35-point pinpoint alphas is so common.
Golden Boy has the same issue, just with thinner armor and lower speed so it folds like a bag full of origami cranes.
Speaking of which, I always forget about the goofy back armor of Blackjacks when hitting them, and always end up stripping the back armor off the side sections in one salvo while leaving the actual rear CT untouched. Though I actually like that setup, because it's non-standardized and adds a bit of character.
is there a good place to read about like, all the particulars of making builds? I don't understand battletech mechanics well enough to want to spend a bunch of ingame funbux and the client doesn't really let you muck around with stuff.
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
So I keep hearing everyone complain about how huge the Kintaro's CT is, but a giant CT and teensy tiny STs are pretty much the defining attribute that makes Cats and Dragons good because it makes them really favorable to run with XLs. Why is it a benefit for them but a detriment for the KNT?
Medium weight-class armor totals.
This. Also, in regards to the Catapult and Dragon: The Catapult only has a big CT RELATIVE to the tiny side torsos. It's cross-section from the front is really not that huge. A bigger problem is it's head is easier to hit than probably any other 'mech. The Dragon's schnoz, on the other hand, IS a big survivability problem, and is the reason why Dragons can't be stand-up fighters and are fairly uncommonly seen.
Yes that's why only the elite excel with Dragons.
+1
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
is there a good place to read about like, all the particulars of making builds? I don't understand battletech mechanics well enough to want to spend a bunch of ingame funbux and the client doesn't really let you muck around with stuff.
Once you get a mech of your own, you can tool around on the Testing Grounds (drop-down menu off the gear-looking button by "Launch") with whatever weapons and gear you already have. If you want to construct mech designs without paying Cbills, use theoosiks.com/mechlab/# or outreachnews.net/mechlab# (is the latter one considered functional yet?); you can poke around with stuff there without losing an hour or two of earnings. You can't test them in-game, but you can post them here and we can point what is good/bad about them.
Beyond that, asking about the particulars of mech builds is a pretty wide field; practically every mech has workable builds and one bad variant, and a lot of it boils down to what you prefer. Even between mechs with extremely similar hardpoint selections, effective builds can vary pretty widely.
Here's a really, really simple breakdown:
-Light mechs: speed is king. Getting the mech itself is cheap, but the XL engines they basically need can cost quite a bit more than the mech itself. Require a fair bit of experience to use well, due to the speed and low armor.
-Medium mechs: mixed-purpose class. Can have fast stuff that act like oversized lights, or slow, cheap stuff that can act like pocket brawlers. Not front-line mechs, but can be VERY useful when the matchmaker isn't busy screwing you over by throwing 6+ assaults at your team.
-Heavy: probably the most forgiving class at the moment, but pricier then Mediums. More firepower, more armor, less speed.
-Assault: hella expensive, whole lot firepower, assloads of armor, and actually not at all forgiving. You can tear things up when you know what you're doing, but a dinky little light can pick you apart if you don't and you are often the focus of a lot of firepower. Pretty easy to make fatal mistakes with assaults, since you really can't retreat from anything.
Personally, I always suggest Mediums as a starting point, because you can make some very solid, simple, cheap builds with them without giving you an overwhelming variety of weapon types to manage at once.
Also, if you need build ideas for a particular mech, ask here. We love to flaunt our killer designs.
Double emphasis on this. The newer Oosik mechlab has an AWESOME feature in the works where people can just store their designs instead of having to search for their links in the thread, but loads of people here can tell you pretty quick what is good/not good about a mech. However, there are just too many different ways to build mechs for use to sit here and list off all the bad ways to build mechs; it's something you basically have to learn or, in some cases, just discover about different mechs.
I think the most basic suggestion I can make about loadouts is to focus on one or two weapons, at least at the start. Mediums and lights are good for this, because you frequently can't mount much more than two weapon types. You really don't want to do things like have 4 small lasers, 2 medium lasers, and 2 large lasers; between all the effective ranges involved, you end up with just a mess of a mech. On the other hand, mechs can quite handily be built with 6+ MLASes that are simple to operate because you have one weapon type and one weapon range.
Oh, and by starting out with mediums, you don't have to worry so much about blowing hard-earned cash on mechs you can't really handle yet. Going from mediums to heavies is a difference of two million C-bills, which is a not-insignificant wad of earnings. Then you've got to pay for upgrades, most of the time. But you can make some very effective Mediums for pretty cheap, and save the rest of the money for when you know what to do.
Ninja Snarl P on
+1
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
I don't mind the speed with the 2xERPPCs, I might the heat. I've also taken too many Gauss/PPC/PPC hits to the shield arms to consider running at less than max armor.
4xMPLas with a 300 is ok in heat, but is too slow to close in and out of 180m range, I thought. With a 320 (12 heat sinks), it'll be too hot.
Just for reference, my 2A has a 300, 6xML and 18 DHSs. The 2B has 5xML and 19 DHSs. I'm enjoying the hell out of both of those, because they're not trying to be Jenners. The sustained fire rate on both is really effective and much more to my liking than the hit and run (and cool off) style of Jenners.
I ran the 3M last night with a 315, 4xML and 16 DHSs and did ok, but the damage output is anemic. I suppose that's probably the best I'll come up with. Oh well. Maybe I'll stick a machine gun in there.
Seems like the 3M just doesn't have the hardpoints to really fall in love with the mech.
No, seriously
2xERPPC, 280XL, ECM, done. It's a pocket sniper, though again as I have said many times before, if you have good aim it's workable closer in as well.
Drop the armor on the arms to 3 points. That gives you enough weight to fit 2 external heat sinks. Your mechlab efficiency is a 1.37, that is VERY good. If you still think this is hot all I will say is that you probably need to work on your heat management.
Cicada arms also seriously don't shield very much, if you die, it's generally to legs or CT.
If you really insist on running something else, try LB10-X+2xMLAS or LLAS+3xMLAS but neither work quite as well.
Mediums are the last class I would recommend to beginners. They require expensive load-outs to preform at optimal efficiency.
CN9's and HBK's are the exception, the CN9 is a gimped mech that relies on broken hitboxes to be good, and the HBK's outside of the 4SP have stupid large hunches that can be destroyed easily. They are one of the hardest classes to play outside of maybe lights IMO.
BJ's, TBT's (which suck any which way), and CDA's all excel and are optimal with XL, which is not a cheap investment for beginners.
I would recommend Heavies or Assaults, as they are the best bang for your buck, hands down. Optimal loadouts are 2-3 weapon groups. Anything more you can consolidate, anything less you are boating something.
I don't mind the speed with the 2xERPPCs, I might the heat. I've also taken too many Gauss/PPC/PPC hits to the shield arms to consider running at less than max armor.
4xMPLas with a 300 is ok in heat, but is too slow to close in and out of 180m range, I thought. With a 320 (12 heat sinks), it'll be too hot.
Just for reference, my 2A has a 300, 6xML and 18 DHSs. The 2B has 5xML and 19 DHSs. I'm enjoying the hell out of both of those, because they're not trying to be Jenners. The sustained fire rate on both is really effective and much more to my liking than the hit and run (and cool off) style of Jenners.
I ran the 3M last night with a 315, 4xML and 16 DHSs and did ok, but the damage output is anemic. I suppose that's probably the best I'll come up with. Oh well. Maybe I'll stick a machine gun in there.
Seems like the 3M just doesn't have the hardpoints to really fall in love with the mech.
No, seriously
2xERPPC, 280XL, ECM, done. It's a pocket sniper, though again as I have said many times before, if you have good aim it's workable closer in as well.
Drop the armor on the arms to 3 points. That gives you enough weight to fit 2 external heat sinks. Your mechlab efficiency is a 1.37, that is VERY good. If you still think this is hot all I will say is that you probably need to work on your heat management.
It's hot because it's hot. Heat management doesn't make it run less hot. When I said the build was too hot, I meant that it ran too hot, not that I'd overheat it constantly.
If that's the best the 3M does, which I rejected because it runs too hot, then there just aren't any good builds for it and I'll elite it out and discard it, which is my plan barring finding a build for it I like. Right now, 4xML is playable, but anemic. Adding a MG might add some fun to it.
Mediums are the last class I would recommend to beginners. They require expensive load-outs to preform at optimal efficiency.
CN9's and HBK's are the exception, the CN9 is a gimped mech that relies on broken hitboxes to be good, and the HBK's outside of the 4SP have stupid large hunches that can be destroyed easily. They are one of the hardest classes to play outside of maybe lights IMO.
BJ's, TBT's (which suck any which way), and CDA's all excel and are optimal with XL, which is not a cheap investment for beginners.
I would recommend Heavies or Assaults, as they are the best bang for your buck, hands down. Optimal loadouts are 2-3 weapon groups. Anything more you can consolidate, anything less you are boating something.
I recommended a buddy of mine get a Cataphract-1X as his first mech. I don't regret the recommendation. The stock build just needs the double heat sink tax, the endo-steel tax, tweaking the armor, adding 2 more tons of ammo and some heatsinks and it's good to go.
PPC, AC/10, 4xML is a perfectly workable loadout. Buy an AC/20, 3 tons of ammo for it, and a large laser and you can swap the PPC for the large laser and the AC/10 for the AC/20 (swapping out the ammo) for a short-range build. Swap back for a medium-range build.
Mediums are the last class I would recommend to beginners. They require expensive load-outs to preform at optimal efficiency.
CN9's and HBK's are the exception, the CN9 is a gimped mech that relies on broken hitboxes to be good, and the HBK's outside of the 4SP have stupid large hunches that can be destroyed easily. They are one of the hardest classes to play outside of maybe lights IMO.
BJ's, TBT's (which suck any which way), and CDA's all excel and are optimal with XL, which is not a cheap investment for beginners.
I would recommend Heavies or Assaults, as they are the best bang for your buck, hands down. Optimal loadouts are 2-3 weapon groups. Anything more you can consolidate, anything less you are boating something.
I recommended a buddy of mine get a Cataphract-1X as his first mech. I don't regret the recommendation. The stock build just needs the double heat sink tax, the endo-steel tax, tweaking the armor, adding 2 more tons of ammo and some heatsinks and it's good to go.
PPC, AC/10, 4xML is a perfectly workable loadout. Buy an AC/20, 3 tons of ammo for it, and a large laser and you can swap the PPC for the large laser and the AC/10 for the AC/20 (swapping out the ammo) for a short-range build. Swap back for a medium-range build.
Yep CTF's are a really good versatile class. So are Jagers. CPT's and DRG's are tough, but work really well when you pull it off.
Only applies to that mech and its variants. Unlock a pattern for a Stalker, and you get it for all Stalkers. But you have to pay up again if you want it for Atlases.
I'd just rather have a reference to look at when (for example) I don't get the relationship between engine and weight and speed or how heatsinks need to be laid out or whatever
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I don't mind the speed with the 2xERPPCs, I might the heat. I've also taken too many Gauss/PPC/PPC hits to the shield arms to consider running at less than max armor.
4xMPLas with a 300 is ok in heat, but is too slow to close in and out of 180m range, I thought. With a 320 (12 heat sinks), it'll be too hot.
Just for reference, my 2A has a 300, 6xML and 18 DHSs. The 2B has 5xML and 19 DHSs. I'm enjoying the hell out of both of those, because they're not trying to be Jenners. The sustained fire rate on both is really effective and much more to my liking than the hit and run (and cool off) style of Jenners.
I ran the 3M last night with a 315, 4xML and 16 DHSs and did ok, but the damage output is anemic. I suppose that's probably the best I'll come up with. Oh well. Maybe I'll stick a machine gun in there.
Seems like the 3M just doesn't have the hardpoints to really fall in love with the mech.
No, seriously
2xERPPC, 280XL, ECM, done. It's a pocket sniper, though again as I have said many times before, if you have good aim it's workable closer in as well.
Drop the armor on the arms to 3 points. That gives you enough weight to fit 2 external heat sinks. Your mechlab efficiency is a 1.37, that is VERY good. If you still think this is hot all I will say is that you probably need to work on your heat management.
It's hot because it's hot. Heat management doesn't make it run less hot. When I said the build was too hot, I meant that it ran too hot, not that I'd overheat it constantly.
If that's the best the 3M does, which I rejected because it runs too hot, then there just aren't any good builds for it and I'll elite it out and discard it, which is my plan barring finding a build for it I like. Right now, 4xML is playable, but anemic. Adding a MG might add some fun to it.
I run/ran 3ML and 1 LL. It isnt horrible, but not the best either.
0
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Mediums are the last class I would recommend to beginners. They require expensive load-outs to preform at optimal efficiency.
CN9's and HBK's are the exception, the CN9 is a gimped mech that relies on broken hitboxes to be good, and the HBK's outside of the 4SP have stupid large hunches that can be destroyed easily. They are one of the hardest classes to play outside of maybe lights IMO.
BJ's, TBT's (which suck any which way), and CDA's all excel and are optimal with XL, which is not a cheap investment for beginners.
I would recommend Heavies or Assaults, as they are the best bang for your buck, hands down. Optimal loadouts are 2-3 weapon groups. Anything more you can consolidate, anything less you are boating something.
Heavies, sure, but assaults? Hell no. You can buy two mediums for the cheapest assault, and that's before any equipping; assaults take truckloads of cash to even get, much less kit out with all the right weapons and the right engine. Conversely, you can also make workable builds out of Centurions and Hunchbacks that don't require any upgrade stuff; DHS and ES helps top them out, but an AL or 4P can be turned into an entirely viable, cheap starter mech without even buying different engines, just a large laser or two, some small lasers, and/or single heatsinks. You aren't going to tear up the battlefield, but you also aren't going to blow a HUGE chunk of money on something that gets singled out and picked off just because it's a big aggro target. And if your New Pilot Bonus has yet to come? You can buy a medium and fully upgrade it right out of the gate as soon as you get it, instead of trying to grind out enough cash to get one lousy mech you don't even really know how to use. Mediums are basically the rock-bottom of where to buy and build something that can accomplish something without needing a lot of cash.
And yeah, Jagers and Phracts are good, but also 2 million more than any Medium with a non-XL engine, and you definitely have to upgrade them to get them somewhere decent. A new AC20 is a whopping 600 grand, which is easy to forget when you've been playing as long as we have and have at least one or two of practically any weapon.
Yeah, Mediums aren't as forgiving, but they're also a helluva lot cheaper and train you to play a whole lot smarter right from the start.
So my game was a bit buggy; sometimes I'd get severe FPS drops. So I figured I'd re-install the client. FPS issues seem better, but now I get crash to desktop when I launch a match maybe 10% of the time. Thanks, PGI.
is there a good place to read about like, all the particulars of making builds? I don't understand battletech mechanics well enough to want to spend a bunch of ingame funbux and the client doesn't really let you muck around with stuff.
Also, its a good idea to plan out purchases of mechs based on their equipment and engines. Picking up a mech that comes with an XL300 is a wise move because the 300 is a workhorse and is the engine of choice for countless builds. When i first started, goal number 1 was that sweet XL. Picked up an Atlas K for it, stripped the equipment and sold that sucker. Well worth it to get me off the ground.
But theres a much larger selection of mechs now to gun for. Ignore the haters and go hunchback SP. Fantastic platform for a beginners. Rocks with a standard engine, but like 99% of mechs, needs double heat sinks to excel, and endo is useful to get a bigger engine. And of course, VENT! come chat with us and well hold your hand.
No better place than smurfy to get a fantastic overview of the nitty gritty mech stuff. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de
So my game was a bit buggy; sometimes I'd get severe FPS drops. So I figured I'd re-install the client. FPS issues seem better, but now I get crash to desktop when I launch a match maybe 10% of the time. Thanks, PGI.
Run the fixer, that always works for me. I've even had to run it after fresh installs.
For poor performance, set your PC power mode to high performance, that worked for me.
Cabezone on
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited August 2013
I really cannot stress enough how right HydroSqueegee is about the XL300. It is the workhorse of engines. More than half my builds across all my mechs revolve around it.
The 315 is another one I've gotten a lot of mileage out of, because I focus on heavies - it's the max for Jagermechs and Catapults, and if you have the weight (say, if you have 2 extra free tons but no free crit slots/obvious things to add) adds a few kph to a Cataphract too.
If you want to get into heavies, I'd start with Cataphracts. They're very versatile and you can do a lot with them, and they have (I claim) the best Hero mech in the game (but that costs real money).
3cl1ps3 on
+1
NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
So my game was a bit buggy; sometimes I'd get severe FPS drops. So I figured I'd re-install the client. FPS issues seem better, but now I get crash to desktop when I launch a match maybe 10% of the time. Thanks, PGI.
Run the fixer, that always works for me. I've even had to run it after fresh installs.
For poor performance, set your PC power mode to high performance, that worked for me.
Yea, running that now. The performance issues didn't pop up until this last patch though. I'm not sure what the deal was. It wasn't the twelve mans...I'd just be minding my own business, then bam, FPS drops to 5, then 1, then the game basically locks, usually until I die, then everything pops back. Really irritating.
And I also just spent seven million cbills on my Sprinturion. gtgf
You will not regret this purchase.
I was running it with an XL 300 but it isn't a very satisfying chassis, at least compared to the A and AL. So now I'm trying it with an XL 370. And I'm painting it red. So in total now I think I've spent 15 million on that mech. It better be fun!
I don't mind the speed with the 2xERPPCs, I might the heat. I've also taken too many Gauss/PPC/PPC hits to the shield arms to consider running at less than max armor.
4xMPLas with a 300 is ok in heat, but is too slow to close in and out of 180m range, I thought. With a 320 (12 heat sinks), it'll be too hot.
Just for reference, my 2A has a 300, 6xML and 18 DHSs. The 2B has 5xML and 19 DHSs. I'm enjoying the hell out of both of those, because they're not trying to be Jenners. The sustained fire rate on both is really effective and much more to my liking than the hit and run (and cool off) style of Jenners.
I ran the 3M last night with a 315, 4xML and 16 DHSs and did ok, but the damage output is anemic. I suppose that's probably the best I'll come up with. Oh well. Maybe I'll stick a machine gun in there.
Seems like the 3M just doesn't have the hardpoints to really fall in love with the mech.
No, seriously
2xERPPC, 280XL, ECM, done. It's a pocket sniper, though again as I have said many times before, if you have good aim it's workable closer in as well.
Drop the armor on the arms to 3 points. That gives you enough weight to fit 2 external heat sinks. Your mechlab efficiency is a 1.37, that is VERY good. If you still think this is hot all I will say is that you probably need to work on your heat management.
It's hot because it's hot. Heat management doesn't make it run less hot. When I said the build was too hot, I meant that it ran too hot, not that I'd overheat it constantly.
If that's the best the 3M does, which I rejected because it runs too hot, then there just aren't any good builds for it and I'll elite it out and discard it, which is my plan barring finding a build for it I like. Right now, 4xML is playable, but anemic. Adding a MG might add some fun to it.
It's not a particularly hot build, I don't know what you consider not hot. Maybe if you only want to chain fire MLAS and scuff paint, then yes by that measure it is a hot build. If you want to blow off components in 3 alphas and then back off for a bit while you continue being an unkillable jerk, then it's not particularly hot.
yeah I bought a hunchback that I'm currently using as a laserboat.
What is the difference between engines? Do I just get more health on my engine out if I run like a 215 instead of a 200?
Higher-numbered engines make you go faster. Every 'mech chassis and variant has a limit to the highest-rated engine it can carry, which is a formula based on the 'mech's weight and the rating of the stock engine it comes with.
All engines have the same amount of "health." No engine is any tougher than any other. XL engines make you more vulnerable because they cause you to die if one of your side torsos is destroyed.
+2
NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
Posts
I have also seen this.
Yeah, huge CTs on lights and mediums are effectively a death sentence. In my Jenners, I only die in one of two ways: legged or cored. This means that whatever armor I put in as side armor is generally wasted, because it never comes into play but I can't risk not armoring them just in case you take that one lucky double PPC/heavy ballistic shot to the side. Dragons and Cats have narrow side torsos, but they still get hit in them plenty, and can still rotate to absorb fire into them in order to stay alive longer. The thing with the Jenner is dumb, but you at least you have the speed to evade most hits; the Kintaro is WAY bigger and slower, so it just soaks up everything thrown at it.
With the Kintaro, basically any hit on the torso is a CT hit, which makes them as durable as a wet tissue in a tornado because they can never, ever slough damage off to their side torsos. There's effectively zero reason to not take an XL because of that, which is stupid because it means the mech dies so easy that putting in something that should make it die easier has no effect at all. Unless the thing they're attacking is basically ignoring them completely, they will immediately take severe, threatening damage as soon as they recieve fire.
When they fix the Kintaro hitboxes to be something actually sane, then Kintaro survivability is going to go WAY up, regardless of which engine type is in use.
That's assuming they ever actually fix it, which I'm sure they will get right on after they fix mech scaling. /sarcasm
Nintendo Network ID: imperialparadox | 3DS FC: 2294-4029-6793
XBL Gamertag: Paradox3351 | PSN: imperialparadox
Anyway. Generally, the matchmaker is shit and sticks you with 5 stupid lights on your team three games in a row (ALL DIFFERENT PILOTS, TOO). And sometimes, by sheer chance, you get a halfway-balanced match and get to absolutely wail on people with some hot Wang fury:
Yes, they lost terribly, but not for lack of firepower; most of us were down by Theta, and three of them (a Highlander, a Jenner, and a Hunchback) dropped over the cliff one by one to land between me and a brawler Highlander, after many of us had already dropped down to annihilate a dumb Cataphract who decided to follow a Jenner to Theta. The rest was a running battle where we basically teamwork-shredded everything, finishing off with one of those lameass lazy LRM Stalker builds who was a waste of space most of the match because his missiles couldn't hit anything over the cliff. By the time he waddled close enough, he was the only one left and got murdilated.
Want weight matching in so hard so people will stop being lazy asses by just stacking LRMs on assaults, because they can get away with a lot of the time when they have five other assaults to hang around with.
I think part of it is we have only seen Golden Boys so far. They are slow. The standard Kintaro starts with a 275 which lets it run about 80 kph. I am planning on running 300xls in mine for a 88.5 kph without speed tweak. 96 with speed tweak. Still fast, will have an almost identical missile alpha as my Golden Boy. And a good amount faster.
They will make good supports for sprinturions. Add a good amount of damage to a medium lance, especially with whatever the medium buffs in the next patch are.
This. Also, in regards to the Catapult and Dragon: The Catapult only has a big CT RELATIVE to the tiny side torsos. It's cross-section from the front is really not that huge. A bigger problem is it's head is easier to hit than probably any other 'mech. The Dragon's schnoz, on the other hand, IS a big survivability problem, and is the reason why Dragons can't be stand-up fighters and are fairly uncommonly seen.
Golden Boy has the same issue, just with thinner armor and lower speed so it folds like a bag full of origami cranes.
Speaking of which, I always forget about the goofy back armor of Blackjacks when hitting them, and always end up stripping the back armor off the side sections in one salvo while leaving the actual rear CT untouched. Though I actually like that setup, because it's non-standardized and adds a bit of character.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Yes that's why only the elite excel with Dragons.
Once you get a mech of your own, you can tool around on the Testing Grounds (drop-down menu off the gear-looking button by "Launch") with whatever weapons and gear you already have. If you want to construct mech designs without paying Cbills, use theoosiks.com/mechlab/# or outreachnews.net/mechlab# (is the latter one considered functional yet?); you can poke around with stuff there without losing an hour or two of earnings. You can't test them in-game, but you can post them here and we can point what is good/bad about them.
Beyond that, asking about the particulars of mech builds is a pretty wide field; practically every mech has workable builds and one bad variant, and a lot of it boils down to what you prefer. Even between mechs with extremely similar hardpoint selections, effective builds can vary pretty widely.
Here's a really, really simple breakdown:
-Light mechs: speed is king. Getting the mech itself is cheap, but the XL engines they basically need can cost quite a bit more than the mech itself. Require a fair bit of experience to use well, due to the speed and low armor.
-Medium mechs: mixed-purpose class. Can have fast stuff that act like oversized lights, or slow, cheap stuff that can act like pocket brawlers. Not front-line mechs, but can be VERY useful when the matchmaker isn't busy screwing you over by throwing 6+ assaults at your team.
-Heavy: probably the most forgiving class at the moment, but pricier then Mediums. More firepower, more armor, less speed.
-Assault: hella expensive, whole lot firepower, assloads of armor, and actually not at all forgiving. You can tear things up when you know what you're doing, but a dinky little light can pick you apart if you don't and you are often the focus of a lot of firepower. Pretty easy to make fatal mistakes with assaults, since you really can't retreat from anything.
Personally, I always suggest Mediums as a starting point, because you can make some very solid, simple, cheap builds with them without giving you an overwhelming variety of weapon types to manage at once.
Double emphasis on this. The newer Oosik mechlab has an AWESOME feature in the works where people can just store their designs instead of having to search for their links in the thread, but loads of people here can tell you pretty quick what is good/not good about a mech. However, there are just too many different ways to build mechs for use to sit here and list off all the bad ways to build mechs; it's something you basically have to learn or, in some cases, just discover about different mechs.
I think the most basic suggestion I can make about loadouts is to focus on one or two weapons, at least at the start. Mediums and lights are good for this, because you frequently can't mount much more than two weapon types. You really don't want to do things like have 4 small lasers, 2 medium lasers, and 2 large lasers; between all the effective ranges involved, you end up with just a mess of a mech. On the other hand, mechs can quite handily be built with 6+ MLASes that are simple to operate because you have one weapon type and one weapon range.
Oh, and by starting out with mediums, you don't have to worry so much about blowing hard-earned cash on mechs you can't really handle yet. Going from mediums to heavies is a difference of two million C-bills, which is a not-insignificant wad of earnings. Then you've got to pay for upgrades, most of the time. But you can make some very effective Mediums for pretty cheap, and save the rest of the money for when you know what to do.
2xERPPC, 280XL, ECM, done. It's a pocket sniper, though again as I have said many times before, if you have good aim it's workable closer in as well.
Drop the armor on the arms to 3 points. That gives you enough weight to fit 2 external heat sinks. Your mechlab efficiency is a 1.37, that is VERY good. If you still think this is hot all I will say is that you probably need to work on your heat management.
Cicada arms also seriously don't shield very much, if you die, it's generally to legs or CT.
If you really insist on running something else, try LB10-X+2xMLAS or LLAS+3xMLAS but neither work quite as well.
CN9's and HBK's are the exception, the CN9 is a gimped mech that relies on broken hitboxes to be good, and the HBK's outside of the 4SP have stupid large hunches that can be destroyed easily. They are one of the hardest classes to play outside of maybe lights IMO.
BJ's, TBT's (which suck any which way), and CDA's all excel and are optimal with XL, which is not a cheap investment for beginners.
I would recommend Heavies or Assaults, as they are the best bang for your buck, hands down. Optimal loadouts are 2-3 weapon groups. Anything more you can consolidate, anything less you are boating something.
It's hot because it's hot. Heat management doesn't make it run less hot. When I said the build was too hot, I meant that it ran too hot, not that I'd overheat it constantly.
If that's the best the 3M does, which I rejected because it runs too hot, then there just aren't any good builds for it and I'll elite it out and discard it, which is my plan barring finding a build for it I like. Right now, 4xML is playable, but anemic. Adding a MG might add some fun to it.
I recommended a buddy of mine get a Cataphract-1X as his first mech. I don't regret the recommendation. The stock build just needs the double heat sink tax, the endo-steel tax, tweaking the armor, adding 2 more tons of ammo and some heatsinks and it's good to go.
PPC, AC/10, 4xML is a perfectly workable loadout. Buy an AC/20, 3 tons of ammo for it, and a large laser and you can swap the PPC for the large laser and the AC/10 for the AC/20 (swapping out the ammo) for a short-range build. Swap back for a medium-range build.
Yep CTF's are a really good versatile class. So are Jagers. CPT's and DRG's are tough, but work really well when you pull it off.
Also, I love being in a Stalker and getting stuck in completely flat terrain in River City.
Nintendo Network ID: imperialparadox | 3DS FC: 2294-4029-6793
XBL Gamertag: Paradox3351 | PSN: imperialparadox
Nintendo Network ID: imperialparadox | 3DS FC: 2294-4029-6793
XBL Gamertag: Paradox3351 | PSN: imperialparadox
I'd just rather have a reference to look at when (for example) I don't get the relationship between engine and weight and speed or how heatsinks need to be laid out or whatever
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I run/ran 3ML and 1 LL. It isnt horrible, but not the best either.
Heavies, sure, but assaults? Hell no. You can buy two mediums for the cheapest assault, and that's before any equipping; assaults take truckloads of cash to even get, much less kit out with all the right weapons and the right engine. Conversely, you can also make workable builds out of Centurions and Hunchbacks that don't require any upgrade stuff; DHS and ES helps top them out, but an AL or 4P can be turned into an entirely viable, cheap starter mech without even buying different engines, just a large laser or two, some small lasers, and/or single heatsinks. You aren't going to tear up the battlefield, but you also aren't going to blow a HUGE chunk of money on something that gets singled out and picked off just because it's a big aggro target. And if your New Pilot Bonus has yet to come? You can buy a medium and fully upgrade it right out of the gate as soon as you get it, instead of trying to grind out enough cash to get one lousy mech you don't even really know how to use. Mediums are basically the rock-bottom of where to buy and build something that can accomplish something without needing a lot of cash.
And yeah, Jagers and Phracts are good, but also 2 million more than any Medium with a non-XL engine, and you definitely have to upgrade them to get them somewhere decent. A new AC20 is a whopping 600 grand, which is easy to forget when you've been playing as long as we have and have at least one or two of practically any weapon.
Yeah, Mediums aren't as forgiving, but they're also a helluva lot cheaper and train you to play a whole lot smarter right from the start.
Also, its a good idea to plan out purchases of mechs based on their equipment and engines. Picking up a mech that comes with an XL300 is a wise move because the 300 is a workhorse and is the engine of choice for countless builds. When i first started, goal number 1 was that sweet XL. Picked up an Atlas K for it, stripped the equipment and sold that sucker. Well worth it to get me off the ground.
But theres a much larger selection of mechs now to gun for. Ignore the haters and go hunchback SP. Fantastic platform for a beginners. Rocks with a standard engine, but like 99% of mechs, needs double heat sinks to excel, and endo is useful to get a bigger engine. And of course, VENT! come chat with us and well hold your hand.
No better place than smurfy to get a fantastic overview of the nitty gritty mech stuff.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de
Run the fixer, that always works for me. I've even had to run it after fresh installs.
http://patcher.mwomercs.com/repair/MWORepairTool.exe
For poor performance, set your PC power mode to high performance, that worked for me.
The 315 is another one I've gotten a lot of mileage out of, because I focus on heavies - it's the max for Jagermechs and Catapults, and if you have the weight (say, if you have 2 extra free tons but no free crit slots/obvious things to add) adds a few kph to a Cataphract too.
If you want to get into heavies, I'd start with Cataphracts. They're very versatile and you can do a lot with them, and they have (I claim) the best Hero mech in the game (but that costs real money).
You will not regret this purchase.
Yea, running that now. The performance issues didn't pop up until this last patch though. I'm not sure what the deal was. It wasn't the twelve mans...I'd just be minding my own business, then bam, FPS drops to 5, then 1, then the game basically locks, usually until I die, then everything pops back. Really irritating.
I was running it with an XL 300 but it isn't a very satisfying chassis, at least compared to the A and AL. So now I'm trying it with an XL 370. And I'm painting it red. So in total now I think I've spent 15 million on that mech. It better be fun!
Wait, if I unlock a paint color I unlock it for all 'mechs? I thought that was just for that chassis too.
Paint is the only thing that's universal. One purchase, and you've got it forever, for all mechs.
What is the difference between engines? Do I just get more health on my engine out if I run like a 215 instead of a 200?
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Higher-numbered engines make you go faster. Every 'mech chassis and variant has a limit to the highest-rated engine it can carry, which is a formula based on the 'mech's weight and the rating of the stock engine it comes with.
All engines have the same amount of "health." No engine is any tougher than any other. XL engines make you more vulnerable because they cause you to die if one of your side torsos is destroyed.
Bigger engines make you move faster, and torso twist faster.
mwo.gamepedia.com/Engines
...
FUCK.