yeah I bought a hunchback that I'm currently using as a laserboat.
What is the difference between engines? Do I just get more health on my engine out if I run like a 215 instead of a 200?
Higher-numbered engines make you go faster. Every 'mech chassis and variant has a limit to the highest-rated engine it can carry, which is a formula based on the 'mech's weight and the rating of the stock engine it comes with.
All engines have the same amount of "health." No engine is any tougher than any other. XL engines make you more vulnerable because they cause you to die if one of your side torsos is destroyed.
Other important things:
Higher number engines carry more heatsinks internally. Heatsinks in the engine are worth 1.0, extra heatsinks you slot in are worth 0.7. Additionally, you MUST have a total of at least 10 heatsinks on a mech for it to be a valid loadout. Engine ratings of 250 have 10 internally, every 25 points above or below that have 1 more or less. To wit: 245 has 9 internal, 250 has 10 internal, 270 has 10 internal, 275 has 10(+1). Engine ratings at 275 above have 10 internal with room for more that will take up no space but must be paid for in weight if you choose to use the slot.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
yeah I bought a hunchback that I'm currently using as a laserboat.
What is the difference between engines? Do I just get more health on my engine out if I run like a 215 instead of a 200?
Higher-numbered engines make you go faster. Every 'mech chassis and variant has a limit to the highest-rated engine it can carry, which is a formula based on the 'mech's weight and the rating of the stock engine it comes with.
All engines have the same amount of "health." No engine is any tougher than any other. XL engines make you more vulnerable because they cause you to die if one of your side torsos is destroyed.
Other important things:
Higher number engines carry more heatsinks internally. Heatsinks in the engine are worth 1.0, extra heatsinks you slot in are worth 0.7. Additionally, you MUST have a total of at least 10 heatsinks on a mech for it to be a valid loadout. Engine ratings of 250 have 10 internally, every 25 points above or below that have 1 more or less. To wit: 245 has 9 internal, 250 has 10 internal, 270 has 10 internal, 275 has 10(+1). Engine ratings at 275 above have 10 internal with room for more that will take up no space but must be paid for in weight if you choose to use the slot.
Engines have (rating / 25) rounded down heatsinks, up to 250 which is the smallest engine that comes with 10 heatsinks.
Above that, every additional 25 rating adds a slot in the engine that you can put a heat sink (double or single) in.
So 245 or lower has 9, or 8, etc. heatsinks. 250 comes with 10 heat sinks. 275 comes with 10 heat sinks and 1 engine slot. 300 comes with 10 heat sinks and 2 engine slots. etc.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
yeah I bought a hunchback that I'm currently using as a laserboat.
What is the difference between engines? Do I just get more health on my engine out if I run like a 215 instead of a 200?
Higher-numbered engines make you go faster. Every 'mech chassis and variant has a limit to the highest-rated engine it can carry, which is a formula based on the 'mech's weight and the rating of the stock engine it comes with.
All engines have the same amount of "health." No engine is any tougher than any other. XL engines make you more vulnerable because they cause you to die if one of your side torsos is destroyed.
Keep in mind that is virtually never worthwhile to buy max engine size. Towards the high end of what you can equip, you get reduced returns on speed, so the weight is almost never worth the speed gain.
Mediums are the last class I would recommend to beginners. They require expensive load-outs to preform at optimal efficiency.
CN9's and HBK's are the exception, the CN9 is a gimped mech that relies on broken hitboxes to be good, and the HBK's outside of the 4SP have stupid large hunches that can be destroyed easily. They are one of the hardest classes to play outside of maybe lights IMO.
BJ's, TBT's (which suck any which way), and CDA's all excel and are optimal with XL, which is not a cheap investment for beginners.
I would recommend Heavies or Assaults, as they are the best bang for your buck, hands down. Optimal loadouts are 2-3 weapon groups. Anything more you can consolidate, anything less you are boating something.
Heavies, sure, but assaults? Hell no. You can buy two mediums for the cheapest assault, and that's before any equipping; assaults take truckloads of cash to even get, much less kit out with all the right weapons and the right engine. Conversely, you can also make workable builds out of Centurions and Hunchbacks that don't require any upgrade stuff; DHS and ES helps top them out, but an AL or 4P can be turned into an entirely viable, cheap starter mech without even buying different engines, just a large laser or two, some small lasers, and/or single heatsinks. You aren't going to tear up the battlefield, but you also aren't going to blow a HUGE chunk of money on something that gets singled out and picked off just because it's a big aggro target. And if your New Pilot Bonus has yet to come? You can buy a medium and fully upgrade it right out of the gate as soon as you get it, instead of trying to grind out enough cash to get one lousy mech you don't even really know how to use. Mediums are basically the rock-bottom of where to buy and build something that can accomplish something without needing a lot of cash.
And yeah, Jagers and Phracts are good, but also 2 million more than any Medium with a non-XL engine, and you definitely have to upgrade them to get them somewhere decent. A new AC20 is a whopping 600 grand, which is easy to forget when you've been playing as long as we have and have at least one or two of practically any weapon.
Yeah, Mediums aren't as forgiving, but they're also a helluva lot cheaper and train you to play a whole lot smarter right from the start.
Mediums in this meta are fucking terrible. They are currently the worst class to play. No doubt about that. Assaults on the other hand, any Assault beside AWS's are good. You don't need XL on CPT's, CTF's, JM6's. DRG's you do. QKD's i don't know enough about. I believe you do on QKD's.
You don't need XL's on HGN's, AS7's, VTR's. STK's and AWS are optional with XL, some builds use them, others don't. They are more forgiving, they fulfill more roles, they have more versatile builds. Lets take a look at Meds. HBK's suck (Hunch's easy target gg) beside the 4SP. TBT's suck, CDA's aren't even really Meds they are overgrown Lights. CN9's are only good right now because they are bugged. BJ's are the one variant that I will say can be played well.
Why would you pay for something that may be cheap and you can have a bunch of them, but blows at just about anything it does or about any other mech can do better. The only exception I will give you is to BJ's because well, they are BJ's. Victors are literally Assault Mediums and they are fucking awesome at what they do, making Mediums obsolete. They need those quirks, and they need them soon.
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited August 2013
I play mediums nearly exclusively and frequently top the scoreboard in damage, kills, and assists. That's with other Oosiks on my team sporting assaults and heavies.
Bill, I know you think everything in MWO always boils down to the best-weapon-loadout meta, but it really doesn't. At all. Mediums are very good at what they do, but what they do isn't simply trying to sport the best OP build available. You just can't play them dumb, you have to be a bit patient and let the heavy-hitters do the heavy-hitting. And all of my Hunchbacks have standard engines, and they definitely do not suck; one standard 260 engine works for all of my Hunchbacks as well, and I used the stock 200 engines they had in them before I got those and they were still fine. They just suck at the way you insist the game works, which is apparently some uber-cutthroat competitive mode thing that doesn't exist.
So either people can spend a freaking fortune trying to learn the game by grinding through the extremely limited assault class (the class has one purpose and one role: damage. And no, that is very far from the only way to win, even doing a super-tryhard team by stacking assaults). Or somebody can spend less than a third of the same Cbills on three mediums and learn the game via a class that actually can do more than just try and roll over the top of the enemy. Teams lose because all the time because they don't have any mediums to go stop light caps or harass LRM mechs or flank and distract battle lines or anything else that assaults can't do because they're slow as hell and have one singular role anywhere.
The only major problem with mediums at the moment is the stupid lack of tonnage limits and the mindset of "competitive" players to ONLY run the most min-maxed builds, which is why we get an overabundance of people sporting the easiest possible assaults they can. And we could very well be seeing the end of that before the end of next month. In that time, somebody could purchase, beef up, and skill up three entire medium mechs, or they purchase one assault and be on their way to a second when they find out that they aren't good enough yet to be the guy with the assault in a tonnage-limited group. And unlike with committing to assaults, they'll actually be able to afford another route that doesn't involve weeks or months of grinding out cash if they aren't real fond of what they get.
I play mediums nearly exclusively and frequently top the scoreboard in damage, kills, and assists. That's with other Oosiks on my team sporting assaults and heavies.
Bill, I know you think everything in MWO always boils down to the best-weapon-loadout meta, but it really doesn't. At all. Mediums are very good at what they do, but what they do isn't simply trying to sport the best OP build available. You just can't play them dumb, you have to be a bit patient and let the heavy-hitters do the heavy-hitting. And all of my Hunchbacks have standard engines, and they definitely do not suck; one standard 260 engine works for all of my Hunchbacks as well, and I used the stock 200 engines they had in them before I got those and they were still fine. They just suck at the way you insist the game works, which is apparently some uber-cutthroat competitive mode thing that doesn't exist.
So either people can spend a freaking fortune trying to learn the game by grinding through the extremely limited assault class (the class has one purpose and one role: damage. And no, that is very far from the only way to win, even doing a super-tryhard team by stacking assaults). Or somebody can spend less than a third of the same Cbills on three mediums and learn the game via a class that actually can do more than just try and roll over the top of the enemy. Teams lose because all the time because they don't have any mediums to go stop light caps or harass LRM mechs or flank and distract battle lines or anything else that assaults can't do because they're slow as hell and have one singular role anywhere.
The only major problem with mediums at the moment is the stupid lack of tonnage limits and the mindset of "competitive" players to ONLY run the most min-maxed builds, which is why we get an overabundance of people sporting the easiest possible assaults they can. And we could very well be seeing the end of that before the end of next month. In that time, somebody could purchase, beef up, and skill up three entire medium mechs, or they purchase one assault and be on their way to a second when they find out that they aren't good enough yet to be the guy with the assault in a tonnage-limited group. And unlike with committing to assaults, they'll actually be able to afford another route that doesn't involve weeks or months of grinding out cash if they aren't real fond of what they get.
Besides, in PUG matches it really doesn't matter anyway. I ran a Hunchback a day or two ago and did quite well when I wasn't running an intentionally stupid fit.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Yeah, I was considering pulling the old AC20 Hunchback out of mothballs for a couple matches tonight, but I decided to just stick with getting the x2 XP bonus for a few mechs. I use my Deathstar all the time, though, and would use my 4SP plenty if I wasn't grinding through several mechs at the moment.
Turns out the key to not getting your hunch shot off is to not stand still in the open so people can hit it. Let the big guys go first, then sock people in the side of the head when they aren't looking. And when endgame comes around and there are open torsos everywhere? SEVERED LIMB PARTY TIME. Yeah, it's trouble time if you're stuck face-to-face with an assault, but you can move fast enough to not let that happen.
And then get behind them and say hello to their CT internals with a nine-laser salute while they shoot something bigger.
yeah I bought a hunchback that I'm currently using as a laserboat.
What is the difference between engines? Do I just get more health on my engine out if I run like a 215 instead of a 200?
Higher-numbered engines make you go faster. Every 'mech chassis and variant has a limit to the highest-rated engine it can carry, which is a formula based on the 'mech's weight and the rating of the stock engine it comes with.
All engines have the same amount of "health." No engine is any tougher than any other. XL engines make you more vulnerable because they cause you to die if one of your side torsos is destroyed.
Keep in mind that is virtually never worthwhile to buy max engine size. Towards the high end of what you can equip, you get reduced returns on speed, so the weight is almost never worth the speed gain.
Man, sometimes I think you and I are playing entirely different games.
Being the nutter I am I just bought a Hunch 4SP because I could. It is on hold till I get the double heatsink tax but going to try and figure how I will run it. I do have a 220 xl in the bank thanks to the Golden Boy.
Also had a great game with my Ilya. Liking my 3 ac with a 300 xl engine build. Decent speed and I can do some decent damage with it. I just couldn't stand the rng in the ultras.
edit: Also I see a lot more mediums in pug matches now. And I don't mean just cicadas but also hunchies, trebs and a lot of cents. Okay the cents aren't new but the hunchbacks and trebs are. Even saw and killed another golden boy in my golden boy today.
Mazzyx on
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ApogeeLancks In Every Game EverRegistered Userregular
I don't mind the speed with the 2xERPPCs, I might the heat. I've also taken too many Gauss/PPC/PPC hits to the shield arms to consider running at less than max armor.
4xMPLas with a 300 is ok in heat, but is too slow to close in and out of 180m range, I thought. With a 320 (12 heat sinks), it'll be too hot.
Just for reference, my 2A has a 300, 6xML and 18 DHSs. The 2B has 5xML and 19 DHSs. I'm enjoying the hell out of both of those, because they're not trying to be Jenners. The sustained fire rate on both is really effective and much more to my liking than the hit and run (and cool off) style of Jenners.
I ran the 3M last night with a 315, 4xML and 16 DHSs and did ok, but the damage output is anemic. I suppose that's probably the best I'll come up with. Oh well. Maybe I'll stick a machine gun in there.
Seems like the 3M just doesn't have the hardpoints to really fall in love with the mech.
No, seriously
2xERPPC, 280XL, ECM, done. It's a pocket sniper, though again as I have said many times before, if you have good aim it's workable closer in as well.
Drop the armor on the arms to 3 points. That gives you enough weight to fit 2 external heat sinks. Your mechlab efficiency is a 1.37, that is VERY good. If you still think this is hot all I will say is that you probably need to work on your heat management.
Cicada arms also seriously don't shield very much, if you die, it's generally to legs or CT.
If you really insist on running something else, try LB10-X+2xMLAS or LLAS+3xMLAS but neither work quite as well.
I can't get the mechlab to come up for some reason... hm.
Anyhow, on my 3M I've been running it with 3ML, LBX (3 tons of ammo), ES, FF, DHS, XL250.
It's not that swift, but it makes great fire/jam support in brawls. You can't run off and harass or scout, but in my mind ECM is much better used as a force multiplier for the main brawl phase anyway. The weapons let you leg lights fairly easily, and the high armour lets you twist well to avoid damage. Those 'maxi-pads' are great buffers!
Also, the XL Victor is currently shitting all over the medium's intended role. I wouldn't recommend it to newbies, obviously (you need three Victors to get those doubled maneuverability efficiencies, plus the 385 XL), but without tonnage matching I would take a speed Vic over a Hunch any day. This is the 'mech I drive now that the 9M is fully obsolete, and it just poops all over any medium that isn't a Cicada or Sprinturion.
Right now I'd actually recommend the Cataphract to someone just jumping into the game. The Dragon or Jager would be alright, too.
Ho-hum new earnings. Does this seem like a fair payout to you guys?
Actually honestly that seems to be pretty good considering you did average damage and only got one kill and 1 component destroyed. I mean there is an extra 40k from your premium but 100k for that isn't bad even pre nerf. I've been seeing people getting less than that for more kills so i'm curious if your assists helped make up for the lack of killing blows
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
yeah I bought a hunchback that I'm currently using as a laserboat.
What is the difference between engines? Do I just get more health on my engine out if I run like a 215 instead of a 200?
Higher-numbered engines make you go faster. Every 'mech chassis and variant has a limit to the highest-rated engine it can carry, which is a formula based on the 'mech's weight and the rating of the stock engine it comes with.
All engines have the same amount of "health." No engine is any tougher than any other. XL engines make you more vulnerable because they cause you to die if one of your side torsos is destroyed.
Keep in mind that is virtually never worthwhile to buy max engine size. Towards the high end of what you can equip, you get reduced returns on speed, so the weight is almost never worth the speed gain.
Man, sometimes I think you and I are playing entirely different games.
Max engines erryday.
I typically install the engine that's the lowest rated of the equivalent heatsink capacity. For top speed, that's usualyl 1-3 below the fastest for the build.
Also, the XL Victor is currently shitting all over the medium's intended role. I wouldn't recommend it to newbies, obviously (you need three Victors to get those doubled maneuverability efficiencies, plus the 385 XL), but without tonnage matching I would take a speed Vic over a Hunch any day. This is the 'mech I drive now that the 9M is fully obsolete, and it just poops all over any medium that isn't a Cicada or Sprinturion.
Right now I'd actually recommend the Cataphract to someone just jumping into the game. The Dragon or Jager would be alright, too.
This is spot on for the current unlimited weight games.
+1
NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
4 kills, 5 assists, mid-400 damage, paid out just over 130k.
I mean, I guess, sure. Better than a kick in the junk.
I think the ones that hurt more are the slightly sub-par matches, that don't even break 100k. Them's the pits.
Ho-hum new earnings. Does this seem like a fair payout to you guys?
Actually honestly that seems to be pretty good considering you did average damage and only got one kill and 1 component destroyed. I mean there is an extra 40k from your premium but 100k for that isn't bad even pre nerf. I've been seeing people getting less than that for more kills so i'm curious if your assists helped make up for the lack of killing blows
540 does not seem like average damage to me, certainly not considering I was piloting a Blackjack. I was top 3-4 on the team.
And 100k would have been extremely shitty for a win pre-nerf, the kind of payout you get when you die in the first minute of the engagement but your team goes on to win without meaningful involvement on your part.
Right now I'd actually recommend the Cataphract to someone just jumping into the game. The Dragon or Jager would be alright, too.
Cataphract would be OK for a beginner. Can't agree on the Dragon and Jager. The Dragon has a gigantic design flaw that makes it vulnerable and requires a lot of intelligent movement and aggression to play successfully. Newbies will just wonder why they're getting their giant snouts kicked in all day. The Jager, similarly, will get its side torsos picked off a lot.
I play mediums nearly exclusively and frequently top the scoreboard in damage, kills, and assists. That's with other Oosiks on my team sporting assaults and heavies.
Bill, I know you think everything in MWO always boils down to the best-weapon-loadout meta, but it really doesn't. At all. Mediums are very good at what they do, but what they do isn't simply trying to sport the best OP build available. You just can't play them dumb, you have to be a bit patient and let the heavy-hitters do the heavy-hitting. And all of my Hunchbacks have standard engines, and they definitely do not suck; one standard 260 engine works for all of my Hunchbacks as well, and I used the stock 200 engines they had in them before I got those and they were still fine. They just suck at the way you insist the game works, which is apparently some uber-cutthroat competitive mode thing that doesn't exist.
So either people can spend a freaking fortune trying to learn the game by grinding through the extremely limited assault class (the class has one purpose and one role: damage. And no, that is very far from the only way to win, even doing a super-tryhard team by stacking assaults). Or somebody can spend less than a third of the same Cbills on three mediums and learn the game via a class that actually can do more than just try and roll over the top of the enemy. Teams lose because all the time because they don't have any mediums to go stop light caps or harass LRM mechs or flank and distract battle lines or anything else that assaults can't do because they're slow as hell and have one singular role anywhere.
The only major problem with mediums at the moment is the stupid lack of tonnage limits and the mindset of "competitive" players to ONLY run the most min-maxed builds, which is why we get an overabundance of people sporting the easiest possible assaults they can. And we could very well be seeing the end of that before the end of next month. In that time, somebody could purchase, beef up, and skill up three entire medium mechs, or they purchase one assault and be on their way to a second when they find out that they aren't good enough yet to be the guy with the assault in a tonnage-limited group. And unlike with committing to assaults, they'll actually be able to afford another route that doesn't involve weeks or months of grinding out cash if they aren't real fond of what they get.
Mediums are great. I'm not an amazing player, but I do very well in mediums; they're my favorite weight class. I've never felt like a drag on any team I've ever been on. Every time someone asks me about their first real mech, I always recommend mediums. I've not heard anyone regret their purchase yet. Assaults have their place, but I can't imagine why anyone would want to put a newbie in an assault chassis. They're more unforgiving than mediums, in my opinion. You can't run, you're so sluggish it can be frustrating, and even a fully armored Atlas dies in seconds if you over-extend, and when you're new you do that all the time. It's worse in an assault, because you think you're a badass.
Plus, running mediums gives you variety. I think my first three mechs were Hunches. Then Phracts, then Stalkers, then Jenners. Out of the group, Stalkers were, and still are, the most difficult to pilot well, and it took forever to grind the C-Bills for them, and they don't even need XL engines.
Ho-hum new earnings. Does this seem like a fair payout to you guys?
Actually honestly that seems to be pretty good considering you did average damage and only got one kill and 1 component destroyed. I mean there is an extra 40k from your premium but 100k for that isn't bad even pre nerf. I've been seeing people getting less than that for more kills so i'm curious if your assists helped make up for the lack of killing blows
540 does not seem like average damage to me, certainly not considering I was piloting a Blackjack. I was top 3-4 on the team.
And 100k would have been extremely shitty for a win pre-nerf, the kind of payout you get when you die in the first minute of the engagement but your team goes on to win without meaningful involvement on your part.
What? I don't remember getting 100k for doing nothing in a match more like 50-60k. You got less than you would pre nerf but compared to what others are getting it's actually not bad.
Here is an example of my last game only doing a pittance in damage but with another kill and a couple more components
That's why I'm curious how you were getting around what you did
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Sorry if the mechlab was down for a bit for you guys. Clearing your cache should fix it, or it should update properly on the hour. We were adding in functionality for all the stock builds, which should be showing up as an option on the select screen soon.
Ho-hum new earnings. Does this seem like a fair payout to you guys?
Actually honestly that seems to be pretty good considering you did average damage and only got one kill and 1 component destroyed. I mean there is an extra 40k from your premium but 100k for that isn't bad even pre nerf. I've been seeing people getting less than that for more kills so i'm curious if your assists helped make up for the lack of killing blows
540 does not seem like average damage to me, certainly not considering I was piloting a Blackjack. I was top 3-4 on the team.
And 100k would have been extremely shitty for a win pre-nerf, the kind of payout you get when you die in the first minute of the engagement but your team goes on to win without meaningful involvement on your part.
What? I don't remember getting 100k for doing nothing in a match more like 50-60k. You got less than you would pre nerf but compared to what others are getting it's actually not bad.
Here is an example of my last game only doing a pittance in damage but with another kill and a couple more components
That's why I'm curious how you were getting around what you did
You're doing better than me without premium. Another kill and a couple components, as you say, but less than half the total damage I did.
Ho-hum new earnings. Does this seem like a fair payout to you guys?
Actually honestly that seems to be pretty good considering you did average damage and only got one kill and 1 component destroyed. I mean there is an extra 40k from your premium but 100k for that isn't bad even pre nerf. I've been seeing people getting less than that for more kills so i'm curious if your assists helped make up for the lack of killing blows
540 does not seem like average damage to me, certainly not considering I was piloting a Blackjack. I was top 3-4 on the team.
And 100k would have been extremely shitty for a win pre-nerf, the kind of payout you get when you die in the first minute of the engagement but your team goes on to win without meaningful involvement on your part.
What? I don't remember getting 100k for doing nothing in a match more like 50-60k. You got less than you would pre nerf but compared to what others are getting it's actually not bad.
Here is an example of my last game only doing a pittance in damage but with another kill and a couple more components
That's why I'm curious how you were getting around what you did
You're doing better than me without premium. Another kill and a couple components, as you say, but less than half the total damage I did.
That's what I'm saying, I'm curious how it rates damage since I'm doing less than you but with a kill and 2 components I'm about 14k or so above you. I would think with you getting twice the damage I did that you would easily beat me in cbills but you seem to get quite a bit more for a kill and components than you do for damage performance which is interesting.
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
yeah I bought a hunchback that I'm currently using as a laserboat.
What is the difference between engines? Do I just get more health on my engine out if I run like a 215 instead of a 200?
Higher-numbered engines make you go faster. Every 'mech chassis and variant has a limit to the highest-rated engine it can carry, which is a formula based on the 'mech's weight and the rating of the stock engine it comes with.
All engines have the same amount of "health." No engine is any tougher than any other. XL engines make you more vulnerable because they cause you to die if one of your side torsos is destroyed.
Keep in mind that is virtually never worthwhile to buy max engine size. Towards the high end of what you can equip, you get reduced returns on speed, so the weight is almost never worth the speed gain.
Man, sometimes I think you and I are playing entirely different games.
Max engines erryday.
Maxing an engine gives you something like 5 extra kph versus an engine a couple ratings lower. In a Centurion, a 275 versus a 260 saves something like 2 tons with Standard and a ton with XL for only a 5 kph drop, which is a pretty big weight savings for a pretty small speed drop. Not as big a deal probably in assaults, but that extra couple of tons can mean quite a bit for mechs that are at Go Fast speed already or can't even get enough Go Fast to matter. Even in a heavy, 2 tons can be the difference between enough ammo or an AMS system, while the extra 5 kph doesn't really matter in a bigger target.
Plus, not maxing out the engines on a mech means you can save loads of monies by swapping them around. I think I've got at least 3-4 engines I swap around, for an ultimate savings of something like 10-15 million Cbills. I'd probably have a third less mechs than I do now if I just maxed them all with the biggest engines they could carry.
Definitely a preference thing, but keeping a bit shy of the max engine limit saves loads of money when it comes to buying engines and gives more flexible weight limits.
I scrolled down, bro. Win/loss payout is always at the top of the ledger.
In other news, there needs to be some kind of minimum experience/skill check in place before someone is allowed to buy a premium assault 'mech. But of course that would cut way into PGI's bread and butter.
The win bonus isn't showing up in your earnings. A bug affecting premiums maybe?
No, it's scrolled off the top of the earnings column because of the premium time. For comparison, see this one where it's scrolled all the way to the top and premium bonus doesn't show. And yeah, that definitely seems lower than pre-12-mans...
The win bonus isn't showing up in your earnings. A bug affecting premiums maybe?
No, it's scrolled off the top of the earnings column because of the premium time. For comparison, see this one where it's scrolled all the way to the top and premium bonus doesn't show. And yeah, that definitely seems lower than pre-12-mans...
Oh it's definitely lower the pre nerf, I'm just not really sure where the big payoffs are coming from, it seems like assists are pretty good to have.
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Your scores actually balance out roughly, the only oddity I see is that they are paying more for assists than kills. So it's better to cut a mech down to almost dead and let someone else fiish it off. Since you can get an assist for hitting a mech once with anything.
I did some reading on that, seems that's intentional, stupid but intentional. They lowered salvage due to people earning so much from assists in 12 mech macthes...instead of just lowing assist earnings. The assist earning are counter productive to team play. It's better for a person to run around and tag each mech once than for them to stay and kill off two mechs.
New strat for cbills, make sure you tag everyone on the enemy team it seems.
Got twice what I made in damage by hitting 4 people to get assists. Even doing 500+ damage it only gives me about 12k. Salvage is divided evenly so that will vary and kills are worth less than assists by a good 1.5k
Delphinidaes on
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I've ran the repair tool three times now. Every time it finds files and replaces them. Then I run it again, and it finds *different files* and wants to replace them.
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Higher number engines carry more heatsinks internally. Heatsinks in the engine are worth 1.0, extra heatsinks you slot in are worth 0.7. Additionally, you MUST have a total of at least 10 heatsinks on a mech for it to be a valid loadout. Engine ratings of 250 have 10 internally, every 25 points above or below that have 1 more or less. To wit: 245 has 9 internal, 250 has 10 internal, 270 has 10 internal, 275 has 10(+1). Engine ratings at 275 above have 10 internal with room for more that will take up no space but must be paid for in weight if you choose to use the slot.
Engines have (rating / 25) rounded down heatsinks, up to 250 which is the smallest engine that comes with 10 heatsinks.
Above that, every additional 25 rating adds a slot in the engine that you can put a heat sink (double or single) in.
So 245 or lower has 9, or 8, etc. heatsinks. 250 comes with 10 heat sinks. 275 comes with 10 heat sinks and 1 engine slot. 300 comes with 10 heat sinks and 2 engine slots. etc.
Keep in mind that is virtually never worthwhile to buy max engine size. Towards the high end of what you can equip, you get reduced returns on speed, so the weight is almost never worth the speed gain.
Mediums in this meta are fucking terrible. They are currently the worst class to play. No doubt about that. Assaults on the other hand, any Assault beside AWS's are good. You don't need XL on CPT's, CTF's, JM6's. DRG's you do. QKD's i don't know enough about. I believe you do on QKD's.
You don't need XL's on HGN's, AS7's, VTR's. STK's and AWS are optional with XL, some builds use them, others don't. They are more forgiving, they fulfill more roles, they have more versatile builds. Lets take a look at Meds. HBK's suck (Hunch's easy target gg) beside the 4SP. TBT's suck, CDA's aren't even really Meds they are overgrown Lights. CN9's are only good right now because they are bugged. BJ's are the one variant that I will say can be played well.
Why would you pay for something that may be cheap and you can have a bunch of them, but blows at just about anything it does or about any other mech can do better. The only exception I will give you is to BJ's because well, they are BJ's. Victors are literally Assault Mediums and they are fucking awesome at what they do, making Mediums obsolete. They need those quirks, and they need them soon.
Bill, I know you think everything in MWO always boils down to the best-weapon-loadout meta, but it really doesn't. At all. Mediums are very good at what they do, but what they do isn't simply trying to sport the best OP build available. You just can't play them dumb, you have to be a bit patient and let the heavy-hitters do the heavy-hitting. And all of my Hunchbacks have standard engines, and they definitely do not suck; one standard 260 engine works for all of my Hunchbacks as well, and I used the stock 200 engines they had in them before I got those and they were still fine. They just suck at the way you insist the game works, which is apparently some uber-cutthroat competitive mode thing that doesn't exist.
So either people can spend a freaking fortune trying to learn the game by grinding through the extremely limited assault class (the class has one purpose and one role: damage. And no, that is very far from the only way to win, even doing a super-tryhard team by stacking assaults). Or somebody can spend less than a third of the same Cbills on three mediums and learn the game via a class that actually can do more than just try and roll over the top of the enemy. Teams lose because all the time because they don't have any mediums to go stop light caps or harass LRM mechs or flank and distract battle lines or anything else that assaults can't do because they're slow as hell and have one singular role anywhere.
The only major problem with mediums at the moment is the stupid lack of tonnage limits and the mindset of "competitive" players to ONLY run the most min-maxed builds, which is why we get an overabundance of people sporting the easiest possible assaults they can. And we could very well be seeing the end of that before the end of next month. In that time, somebody could purchase, beef up, and skill up three entire medium mechs, or they purchase one assault and be on their way to a second when they find out that they aren't good enough yet to be the guy with the assault in a tonnage-limited group. And unlike with committing to assaults, they'll actually be able to afford another route that doesn't involve weeks or months of grinding out cash if they aren't real fond of what they get.
Besides, in PUG matches it really doesn't matter anyway. I ran a Hunchback a day or two ago and did quite well when I wasn't running an intentionally stupid fit.
Turns out the key to not getting your hunch shot off is to not stand still in the open so people can hit it. Let the big guys go first, then sock people in the side of the head when they aren't looking. And when endgame comes around and there are open torsos everywhere? SEVERED LIMB PARTY TIME. Yeah, it's trouble time if you're stuck face-to-face with an assault, but you can move fast enough to not let that happen.
And then get behind them and say hello to their CT internals with a nine-laser salute while they shoot something bigger.
Max engines erryday.
XL is almost a necessity to get the most out of any Victor build.
XL's on Stalkers are fucking disastrous.
Also had a great game with my Ilya. Liking my 3 ac with a 300 xl engine build. Decent speed and I can do some decent damage with it. I just couldn't stand the rng in the ultras.
edit: Also I see a lot more mediums in pug matches now. And I don't mean just cicadas but also hunchies, trebs and a lot of cents. Okay the cents aren't new but the hunchbacks and trebs are. Even saw and killed another golden boy in my golden boy today.
I can't get the mechlab to come up for some reason... hm.
Anyhow, on my 3M I've been running it with 3ML, LBX (3 tons of ammo), ES, FF, DHS, XL250.
It's not that swift, but it makes great fire/jam support in brawls. You can't run off and harass or scout, but in my mind ECM is much better used as a force multiplier for the main brawl phase anyway. The weapons let you leg lights fairly easily, and the high armour lets you twist well to avoid damage. Those 'maxi-pads' are great buffers!
That's prolly an overheating issue. This is where I suggest the usual obvious solutions to such things.
Right now I'd actually recommend the Cataphract to someone just jumping into the game. The Dragon or Jager would be alright, too.
Actually honestly that seems to be pretty good considering you did average damage and only got one kill and 1 component destroyed. I mean there is an extra 40k from your premium but 100k for that isn't bad even pre nerf. I've been seeing people getting less than that for more kills so i'm curious if your assists helped make up for the lack of killing blows
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I typically install the engine that's the lowest rated of the equivalent heatsink capacity. For top speed, that's usualyl 1-3 below the fastest for the build.
This is spot on for the current unlimited weight games.
I mean, I guess, sure. Better than a kick in the junk.
I think the ones that hurt more are the slightly sub-par matches, that don't even break 100k. Them's the pits.
540 does not seem like average damage to me, certainly not considering I was piloting a Blackjack. I was top 3-4 on the team.
And 100k would have been extremely shitty for a win pre-nerf, the kind of payout you get when you die in the first minute of the engagement but your team goes on to win without meaningful involvement on your part.
Cataphract would be OK for a beginner. Can't agree on the Dragon and Jager. The Dragon has a gigantic design flaw that makes it vulnerable and requires a lot of intelligent movement and aggression to play successfully. Newbies will just wonder why they're getting their giant snouts kicked in all day. The Jager, similarly, will get its side torsos picked off a lot.
Mediums are great. I'm not an amazing player, but I do very well in mediums; they're my favorite weight class. I've never felt like a drag on any team I've ever been on. Every time someone asks me about their first real mech, I always recommend mediums. I've not heard anyone regret their purchase yet. Assaults have their place, but I can't imagine why anyone would want to put a newbie in an assault chassis. They're more unforgiving than mediums, in my opinion. You can't run, you're so sluggish it can be frustrating, and even a fully armored Atlas dies in seconds if you over-extend, and when you're new you do that all the time. It's worse in an assault, because you think you're a badass.
Plus, running mediums gives you variety. I think my first three mechs were Hunches. Then Phracts, then Stalkers, then Jenners. Out of the group, Stalkers were, and still are, the most difficult to pilot well, and it took forever to grind the C-Bills for them, and they don't even need XL engines.
What? I don't remember getting 100k for doing nothing in a match more like 50-60k. You got less than you would pre nerf but compared to what others are getting it's actually not bad.
Here is an example of my last game only doing a pittance in damage but with another kill and a couple more components
That's why I'm curious how you were getting around what you did
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You're doing better than me without premium. Another kill and a couple components, as you say, but less than half the total damage I did.
That's what I'm saying, I'm curious how it rates damage since I'm doing less than you but with a kill and 2 components I'm about 14k or so above you. I would think with you getting twice the damage I did that you would easily beat me in cbills but you seem to get quite a bit more for a kill and components than you do for damage performance which is interesting.
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Both of us won our matches...
Maybe....but it gets weirder, here's my next match, 9k down from my previous one with more damage, more kills, more components but less assists.
Bah screenshoted the wrong screen. I earned 100k with 665 damage, 6 components, 2 assists, and 5 kills.
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Maxing an engine gives you something like 5 extra kph versus an engine a couple ratings lower. In a Centurion, a 275 versus a 260 saves something like 2 tons with Standard and a ton with XL for only a 5 kph drop, which is a pretty big weight savings for a pretty small speed drop. Not as big a deal probably in assaults, but that extra couple of tons can mean quite a bit for mechs that are at Go Fast speed already or can't even get enough Go Fast to matter. Even in a heavy, 2 tons can be the difference between enough ammo or an AMS system, while the extra 5 kph doesn't really matter in a bigger target.
Plus, not maxing out the engines on a mech means you can save loads of monies by swapping them around. I think I've got at least 3-4 engines I swap around, for an ultimate savings of something like 10-15 million Cbills. I'd probably have a third less mechs than I do now if I just maxed them all with the biggest engines they could carry.
Definitely a preference thing, but keeping a bit shy of the max engine limit saves loads of money when it comes to buying engines and gives more flexible weight limits.
I scrolled down, bro. Win/loss payout is always at the top of the ledger.
In other news, there needs to be some kind of minimum experience/skill check in place before someone is allowed to buy a premium assault 'mech. But of course that would cut way into PGI's bread and butter.
No, it's scrolled off the top of the earnings column because of the premium time. For comparison, see this one where it's scrolled all the way to the top and premium bonus doesn't show. And yeah, that definitely seems lower than pre-12-mans...
Oh it's definitely lower the pre nerf, I'm just not really sure where the big payoffs are coming from, it seems like assists are pretty good to have.
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Damage pays out x21, which is shit.
Got twice what I made in damage by hitting 4 people to get assists. Even doing 500+ damage it only gives me about 12k. Salvage is divided evenly so that will vary and kills are worth less than assists by a good 1.5k
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