All will [chat] me, and despair

Tamin

Help

I don't know what I'm doing

you people like music, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6ELUtE1YKw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D50oR8tBVKI

oh! Here's something actiony

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SlHGPg8ax0

Variable

mlb all star game coverage is fun

exciting when a mets player is actually really good

syndalis

this... this might be the worst OP in the history of chat.

Even worse than Shaz's "im tired and posting from bed" OP.

you should feel bad.

skippydumptruck

god finally

ALL OF YOU WITH YOUR BUTTS UP YOUR THUMBS

also thank you @gim and @casual eddy for linking those things

this is not an issue I have thought about much in relation to my own wishes

Tamin

I do!

Last chat OP was just a youtube video. But I was slightly unprepared.

Gim

Thomamelas

syndalis wrote: »

this... this might be the worst OP in the history of chat.

Even worse than Shaz's "im tired and posting from bed" OP.

you should feel bad.

Top ten worst maybe. We've had some "Here is a chat" OPs.

skippydumptruck

I read an interesting article at one point about prostate cancer or surgery or something?

and like how not only is it expensive but also the side effects are horrible, like lots of times you never have an erection again and maybe can't walk and some other stuff

and so maybe if you get prostate cancer, and most men will eventually (?), it is just better to go down with the ship rather than going the surgery route

DasUberEdward

more like DARTH panels

am I right?

Organichu

i have done some googlings and it looks like the PA medicaid expansion is shelved for at least the summer and probably won't happen at all. corbett has expressed that he's p firmly against it.

godddddddddddddddamnitttttttt.

Eddy

I should probably have told Dee that I was delegating my duty to Tamin

spool32

Organichu wrote: »

i have done some googlings and it looks like the PA medicaid expansion is shelved for at least the summer and probably won't happen at all. corbett has expressed that he's p firmly against it.

godddddddddddddddamnitttttttt.

Just think of it like a big death panel that saves tons of money. That seems to comfort portions of [chat].

Henroid

DasUberEdward wrote: »

more like DARTH panels

am I right?

No. It's more like astromech droid panels.

spool32

Alternately, chu, there will be an exchange in your state and you'll get a shit-ton of subsidies from the ACA so you'll probably be able to buy insurance that way.

override367

Continued from last chat

spool32 wrote:

TL DR wrote:

We the People as represented by our elected leaders who put laws into place which influence the life and death of citizens every single day?

You will die, spool. I am skeptical that an argument can be made that state-funded guaranteed healthcare will be less fair or somehow more inhumane than what we have now.

Nobody is proposing (other than Sarah Palin, maybe?) a review board of unelected buraeucrats who look at individual patients and make judgment calls on whether their lives are worth $5000 or $50000. It does make sense to have guidelines like we do for organ transplants, however.

I think Override is proposing exactly that

No, what I am proposing is a team of doctors deciding if a patient's care is really in their best interest. If a procedure is going to cost a million dollars and have virtually no chance of extending a patient's life, and WILL cause pain and suffering, to say the government will not pay for that procedure. A team of doctors, who have no profit motive, who have no budget, who suffer no retribution if they say "yeah go ahead and do everything".

That is my position. That is the position of most government run health institutions. In fact cost doesn't even have to factor in to it! It should be about outcomes and effects on the patient, that alone would substantially reduce costs by itself! I'm totally cool with them not even being told the price tag and making it totally about the welfare of the patient

Your position baffles the fuck out of me. Tomorrow if I came down with a chronic condition, you are perfectly honkey dorey with telling me to fuck off and die. My mother too. If she was one year older though? Everything must be done, regardless of any logical sense it must make. Hit by a bus with brain death? Keep her on life support forever, she's over 65 she MUST NOT DIEEEEEE

Fact is Spool, people need to let go eventually. I only have second hand experience as a child going to these places with my mom providing end of life care to people, and at some point you stopped being a caregiver and started being a torturer - all the while the government pays you piles of money to do it.

It's barbaric and I challenge you to find anyone who works with end of life patients who disagrees*

*anyone who doesn't have a direct profit motive behind their reasoning

geez that was way more wall of text than I thought it'd be

Gim

R2-D2 takes you behind a curtain, has you put on a blast shield, and it all happens quickly and painlessly.

TL DR

On the topic of scarcity and medical care (NOT FUCKING DEATH PANELS, THAT CONVERSATION WAS OVER TEN PAGES AGO)

"It should be illegal to sell soda* to anyone under the age of 18". Discuss.

*soda defined however is sensible, by sugar content or whatever

TehSloth

skippydumptruck wrote: »

I read an interesting article at one point about prostate cancer or surgery or something?

and like how not only is it expensive but also the side effects are horrible, like lots of times you never have an erection again and maybe can't walk and some other stuff

and so maybe if you get prostate cancer, and most men will eventually (?), it is just better to go down with the ship rather than going the surgery route

I remember hearing something about starting to move away from recommending you get that checked at whatever age it is it's normal for it to get checked at becuase the cost + side effects is often worse than going untreated. Do not know if fact.

Deebaser

Eddy wrote: »

I should probably have told Dee that I was delegating my duty to Tamin

I'll save it for the next time Im tapped.

Pony

ugh

what a shit day

had an absent partial seizure in the shower, fell on my ass

and because i have swollen discs in my back, this hurt a LOT

i laid down for a bit, took a T3 for the pain and an ativan for the seizing

now i am loopy as fuck

Deebaser

Casual Eddy wrote: »

Gooey wrote: »

Casual Eddy wrote: »

too long didnt look at the graph: doctors say no, overwhelmingly, to just about all end of life care except for pain medication

what about ice cream

we need an fda trial for this

where can i sign up

pain medication

ice cream

call it what you want

Ben and Jerry's Mighty Morphine Jolly Ranchers.

I know what your thinking: "Jolly Ranchers in my ice cream, that sounds disgusting!", but bro, there's a lot of fucking morphine in there. You don't mind the taste, dawg...

EDIT: I couldnt get this post in before the lock

Organichu

spool32 wrote: »

Organichu wrote: »

i have done some googlings and it looks like the PA medicaid expansion is shelved for at least the summer and probably won't happen at all. corbett has expressed that he's p firmly against it.

godddddddddddddddamnitttttttt.

Just think of it like a big death panel that saves tons of money. That seems to comfort portions of [chat].

i don't especially care about you and libruls sniping at each other i am talking about my ability to get healthcare? which seems like an academic discussion to everyone who has the power to change it

dporowski

skippydumptruck wrote: »

I read an interesting article at one point about prostate cancer or surgery or something?

and like how not only is it expensive but also the side effects are horrible, like lots of times you never have an erection again and maybe can't walk and some other stuff

and so maybe if you get prostate cancer, and most men will eventually (?), it is just better to go down with the ship rather than going the surgery route

Yeah, pretty much; prostate is more "when" than "if". However, unless you're an outlier and get it early, the average onset/detection is about oh, 50-60, and it's generally slow enough that it'll kill you in about oh, 20 years.

So, let's see. "no erections anymore" or "this could kill me about when I'd probably be about to die anyhow".


Lemme think about that one.





(They've got some decent radiation-based treatments now though, and the surgery's getting WAY better. Eventually, I'd imagine it'll be routine.)

skippydumptruck

spool32 wrote: »

Just think of it like a big death panel that saves tons of money. That seems to comfort portions of [chat].

maybe you guys are misunderstanding each other

you mentioned being denied lifesaving care because of the cost or your value to society

and I don't think they're talking about that? I think they are talking about situations where it's not going to save your life anyway

like hey we can do this procedure but it has a 5% chance of getting the cancer and then you're going to be in bed for 6 months and die anyway

that kind of thing, where it's not life saving it's just kind of horribly prolonging?

Casual

my eloquent thoughts from the defunct [chat]

Casual wrote: »

one observation i have about tomb raider

RRRRRAGHHH MOTHERFUCKING QUICKTIME EVENTS

SARGGSDFGVSSWADASDF

*flips desk*

Casual Eddy

spool i really wish you wouldn't focus on one person who says something hyperbolic and then assume we're all saying exactly the same thing

override367

skippydumptruck wrote: »

I read an interesting article at one point about prostate cancer or surgery or something?

and like how not only is it expensive but also the side effects are horrible, like lots of times you never have an erection again and maybe can't walk and some other stuff

and so maybe if you get prostate cancer, and most men will eventually (?), it is just better to go down with the ship rather than going the surgery route

Isn't prostate surgery more risky than the cancer itself?

Pony

are some of you kids riling up spool again

skippydumptruck

override367 wrote: »

skippydumptruck wrote: »

I read an interesting article at one point about prostate cancer or surgery or something?

and like how not only is it expensive but also the side effects are horrible, like lots of times you never have an erection again and maybe can't walk and some other stuff

and so maybe if you get prostate cancer, and most men will eventually (?), it is just better to go down with the ship rather than going the surgery route

Isn't prostate surgery more risky than the cancer itself?

I'm really foggy on the memory, I'm not even sure when I read it

Gim

I feel like I am the one person on this forum who is not irrevocably addicted to soda. I drank it a certain amount as a kid, then mostly grew out of it when I hit my 20s. I'll still have some if I go out to a fast food place, but I don't keep any at home, nor do I feel an urge to buy any ever.

TL DR

Pony wrote: »

are some of you kids riling up spool again

man I wouldn't even get into it

that road leads only to the furrowing of brows and a long, dissatisfied sigh of exasperation

dporowski

override367 wrote: »

skippydumptruck wrote: »

I read an interesting article at one point about prostate cancer or surgery or something?

and like how not only is it expensive but also the side effects are horrible, like lots of times you never have an erection again and maybe can't walk and some other stuff

and so maybe if you get prostate cancer, and most men will eventually (?), it is just better to go down with the ship rather than going the surgery route

Isn't prostate surgery more risky than the cancer itself?

Can be, yep. Depends.


Edit: Hey, that's also a side effect!

Casual Eddy

in case you didn't see it

Preferences of physician-participants for treatment given a scenario of irreversible brain injury without terminal illness. Percentage of physicians shown on the vertical axis. For cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR), surgery, and invasive diagnostic testing, no choice for a trial of treatment was given. Data from the Johns Hopkins Precursors Study, 1998. Courtesy of Joseph Gallo, "Life-Sustaining Treatments: What Do Physicians Want and Do They Express Their Wishes to Others?"

this is in regards to that graph. so the question is specific, but I recall a group of non doctors were asked the same and the ratios of yes:no were essentially reversed

unfortunately I can't find the graph

TehSloth

As a liberal, I think the doctors should have to forfeit their licenses if they perform any procedure on someone over 65.

50 if they vote republican or identify as a "patriot" / part of a "tea-party" group.

Shivahn

skippydumptruck wrote: »

I read an interesting article at one point about prostate cancer or surgery or something?

and like how not only is it expensive but also the side effects are horrible, like lots of times you never have an erection again and maybe can't walk and some other stuff

and so maybe if you get prostate cancer, and most men will eventually (?), it is just better to go down with the ship rather than going the surgery route

Oh wow I didn't know the side effects were that bad.

I know it's really common and... yeah.

And I am on multiple medications that may increase the chance of nasty ones so ew.

override367

This value to society nonsense is a red herring invented by Sarah Palin

nobody is suggesting we have a shady team of suits decide if someone is worth keeping alive

Only Republicans and Libertarians are in favor of that system, the system we currently have for 18-64 year olds, and that system is called "Private Insurance"

Pony

ugh i do not care this inebriation

jakobagger

http://www.wired.com/design/2013/07/lepsis-grasshopper-growing-appliance/

@Arch

Gim

I was proud of my two R2-D[eath]2 posts. I'm not going to get any more creative than that today. Just going to sit here and eat raisins.

Echo

This is equally scary and awesome.

Guy with early-onset Parkinson's has a wire in his brain, giving electric stimulation.

He shows what happens when he turns it off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uBh2LxTW0s0

Casual Eddy

it's also a cultural question

we're presented with these heroic doctors reviving people with CPR on movies and in TV. and people also 'fight the disease' and so on. you usually don't have people deciding to die quiet, dignified deaths in american tv and movies.