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NSFW art questions/pics of my drawings

doodleduckdoodleduck Registered User new member
edited July 2013 in Artist's Corner
Hi, I decided to make a thread where I can beg for free help on my ridiculously bad art skills.

Here are some pics to start with.


I started about a month ago


best drawing to date
QWryJQ8l.jpg

e8i70ZJl.jpg
best hand so far (I though this was good a month ago but I've moved onto faces and realized how horrible this is.

hillary duff I drew from a photo reference
L7f5848l.jpg

working on lips
YJlFVhJl.jpg


I'm not very good, so I have some questions.



Is it harder to copy a drawing than it is to make one from a real life subject/photo? From what I gather, people draw with their own style, leaving and adding and shaping things based on reality and anatomy. They do this by first making a rough draft of a whole bunch of lines that are later erased. Guidelines that help them draw in proportion. And trying to copy a drawing where they potential left a lot of still life, landmarks or guidelines out is like trying to navigate with half a map erased? I get when drawing people can use there pencil or brush as a measuring tool to keep everything in proportion, but I don't get how this would help me draw from imagination. Which is my ultimate goal. So I have to memorize basic proportions of things i.e. heads are about 7 eyes long by 5 eyes wide with one eye width between each eye and noses that are one eye wide 2 eyes down from eye line with lips that end around the middle of each actual eye on the head.

using that proportion i got this drawing from imagination, after learning how to draw each individual part from various tutorials and photo reference attempts


QWryJQ8l.jpg


so I feel that using my pencil to measure everything I'm copying is kind of pointless. And I should focus more on drawing without guidelines or measure in order to get better at estimating proportions from imagination.

Would that be the basic jist of it? or is my basic idea wrong? Is this a fast way to get better? Or should I try to copy drawings/still life/photo's using pencil measuring to get my brain better at drawing this from memory/imagination.
What is the quickest way to get good at drawing from imagination so I can draw a comic book in a few years.

here is one I tried to copy source and drawing.
oR57fXGl.jpg



and here is my attempt to copy
e56RQNll.jpg



another
N16VuMQl.jpg

Z2MVeI3l.jpg

So I'll end this post here and see where it goes. Feel free to post any advice or criticism and to laugh at my terrible drawings.

Sorry if my questions aren't very clear, honestly at this point I don't know what I don't know.

p.s.
I already read drawing on the right side of the brain
I'm reading michael hampton figure drawing right now (just started)



second question

shouldn't these claws end somewhere on the hand, instead of completely avoiding it line wise or is it drawn correctly and I'm not seeing it right.
C3LZRZul.jpg

doodleduck on

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    Luca72Luca72 Registered User regular
    I'd recommend learning about form before copying other styles. It's good to have a solid foundation, then you can start looking at other artists and seeing what details you like. Glad that you read Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain. Give these books a shot next: http://www.alexhays.com/loomis/

    They'll show you how to break down the figure and poses into basic shapes, and how to add things like weight and scale.

    The important thing is to just DRAW ALL THE TIME. You mentioned learning proportion by counting head lengths and things like that, but a lot of that comes pretty naturally if you know how to plan out a drawing before hand and have just done it a lot. The good thing is you seem to be drawing a lot, and that's the way you get better :)

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    Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator Mod Emeritus
    Is it harder to copy a drawing than it is to make one from a real life subject/photo? From what I gather, people draw with their own style, leaving and adding and shaping things based on reality and anatomy. They do this by first making a rough draft of a whole bunch of lines that are later erased. Guidelines that help them draw in proportion. And trying to copy a drawing where they potential left a lot of still life, landmarks or guidelines out is like trying to navigate with half a map erased?

    If anything, drawing from a drawing should be easier, as the artist of a competent drawing will have already worked out a lot of problems one would encounter when they worked from life; where to push definition necessary to bring across foreshortening, where to push details and where to lose them, etc, in order to bring across the effect they desired to achieve in the drawing. Photos, despite being true to life in a sense, leave a lot of ambiguities in them that need to be worked out when drawn, and don't necessarily (and in fact, usually don't) make for good art when simply rendered in pencil- even if it's done very accurately- if it's done thoughtlessly.

    When copying from photos or from drawings, your basic approach should be identical, in working out the structure, the gesture and proportions- reverse engineering how these objects are constructed. If you merely copy the lines, or the contour of the model, you won't really gain anything from the practice, because at that point you're not thinking, you're not solving a problem- you're just copying, as a xerox machine would. The next day, nothing you've done by doing that will actually have made any inroads into your mind (or if they do, it's likely the practice will merely instill bad habits), and as a result the practice will be frustrating, and progress will by slow. By completing that "map half erased", you actually gain understanding of how the structures actually work- and it's something that has to be done whatever your reference.
    I get when drawing people can use there pencil or brush as a measuring tool to keep everything in proportion, but I don't get how this would help me draw from imagination. Which is my ultimate goal. So I have to memorize basic proportions of things i.e. heads are about 7 eyes long by 5 eyes wide with one eye width between each eye and noses that are one eye wide 2 eyes down from eye line with lips that end around the middle of each actual eye on the head.

    The point of using measuring techniques, such as using the side of a pencil to measure angles, is not simply to make sure that in the short term that the drawing you are doing is generally in proportion, but to enhance your visual acuity and memory in the long term.

    It's easy to imagine and give yourself credit that you know, in your head, what head is supposed to look like. You've seen people. You see them every day, you know what they look like. However, in the general run of life, most people do not have to think about the myriad of things an artist has to observe, and these things go unnoticed. It's the difference between your average person, who may hear a symphony and be able to repeat a general harmony- they might be able to hum out the DUN DUN DUN DUN of Beethoven's 5th- and a composer who can listen to the symphony, is able to write down every note of every instrument being played, and being then to create an entirely new symphony in that style based on those observations. It's hard as hell, and it's something that wouldn't be possible if they hadn't done the gruntwork of learning an instrument themselves, learning musical notation, doing all the scales and all the practice from already known pieces necessary to truly hear and imagine music with pitch-perfect accuracy.

    The fact is that unless you can draw something from life in a competent way, there is absolutely no chance of doing so purely from imagination- because at that point you have no clue how an actual, well-drawn drawing is put together, and what observations have to made in the process of making a well-drawn drawing. You need to be in the habit of making those observations and drawing them accurately to have imaginative work come anywhere close to what can be accomplished by drawing from life.

    A broad example I saw in a class once was a man who'd been tearing his hair out for 2 hours, because he couldn't work out why the head on the model he was drawing kept turning out so small. Erased it a dozen times, and everything he knew about drawing was telling him it was right, but it still didn't LOOK right, and he had no idea why. The reason why is that he'd been drawing in the general, learned proportions everyone knows- an adult is generally around 7 heads high from the top of the head to the bottom of the feet. So he'd carefully drawn that in, marking out accurately from the head to ground- but what he hadn't taken into account is the fact the model was sitting down. So all those proportions were just screwing him up, because just sitting down effectively takes 2 heads worth of height off. If he'd learned to measure from observation as a counterbalance to those learned proportions, he wouldn't have that problem.

    That's a pretty big example and maybe you think you'd never be so stupid as to make the same mistake, but this kind of thing happens all the time in far more subtle ways- foreshortening and perspective throw these things out of whack all the time- and it can be mind-bendingly difficult to figure out what's going wrong and why without measuring- and you can't learn to get things right if you don't have the ability to figure out how you're getting things wrong.


    Also, as an aside: the idea of a professional artist that doesn't use ref, that works entirely out of their imagination at all times? It's a myth. Even if not copying directly, anyone who does admirable work is always observing, seeking out ref, drawing from life, and looking up new sources of information to inform their visual decision making. The idea that actually looking at things so you know what things look like so you can actually draw them is something that only people in high school think of as "cheating"- to everyone who makes a living by drawing, it's a necessity. Da Vinci didn't just bullshit out the Mona Lisa one day on a napkin at a coffee shop after all, he had a model in his studio- and that guy was no dummy and no slouch.
    so I feel that using my pencil to measure everything I'm copying is kind of pointless. And I should focus more on drawing without guidelines or measure in order to get better at estimating proportions from imagination.

    Would that be the basic jist of it? or is my basic idea wrong?

    Well, yeah, it's wrong. What you're missing here is the idea of exercises to bridge the gap between observed and imagined drawing.
    One such exercise is first doing a drawing from life/model/reference to the best of your ability- using measuring, proportions, everything you know- and then doing another drawing from imagination; drawing the same pose, the same person, the same everything as the first- except now you're drawing it as if that model was turned 90 degrees, or is now facing the opposite direction, or is above or below you. By having that finished, complete drawing next to you, you know what it's supposed to look like; but given the new angle, you are forced to really work out how everything really works on a structural level, and it tests your ability at perspective, construction, and observation to the utmost; and it's a test you wouldn't get by simply drawing something from imagination to begin with, because without the diligent observation involved in doing the first drawing, you have no idea how much you're missing, and therefore have little ability to know where you can be improving matters.
    Is this a fast way to get better?

    What is the quickest way to get good at drawing from imagination so I can draw a comic book in a few years.

    The quickest way would be to get instruction by an excellent figure drawing teacher for several years and work on applying the lessons to imaginative work on your own time. Whether or not that is feasible for you to actually do, I don't know; but that's the real answer, and anything you do should probably be trying to get as close to that experience as you can, whether that's through books and/or videos and/or online courses and/or taking local figure drawing sessions.

    However.

    I'd caution against the mindset of looking for the quickest path, the easiest solution. Not because I hate efficiency- after all I have just told you what is the quickest path- but because the plain fact of the matter is that drawing is hard, and it takes a long time to be good (and most people that are good are quick to admit that they've got a long way to go themselves.) The people that do make it are people that have patience, that remain practicing and studying even when they've hit a plateau, even when they seem to not be making any progress. Somebody that just looks for the quickest solution is more likely to give up, or jump from novelty to novelty in the hopes of coming across something that works or is faster, rather than steadily pursuing the solid, foundational path that is the heart of all excellent drawing ability.

    People that practice simply because they enjoy the practice go the furthest. People that practice only with an ultimate goal, a prize in sight are more likely to flounder; it's like someone training to become a professional athlete not because they enjoy the game, but because they want a a professional athlete sized paycheck. Those guys won't make it. The guys who would keep going even if they didn't get paid anything are the ones who make it, because the love of the game itself, of actually being there on the field, for it's own sake, is always a more powerful motivator. Learn to love the practice and you'll go far.


    If you want a solid foundation to start from vis-a-vis head drawing, I would suggest checking out Proko's series on head drawing (as well as all his other videos, they're pretty fantastic), which gives an excellent brief rundown on the structure of the head. I'd suggest working to apply this structure in your drawings, and use it while doing copies from ref to ensure they remain solid and tangible.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EPNYWeEf1U&list=PL39135B8D190B7C97&index=1

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    doodleduckdoodleduck Registered User new member
    Thank you Angel_Of_Bacon I'll check out loomises form guides then I'll check the video series you posted and start working things out like this.

    That post was a huge help! Now I get the copying vs re-drawing aspect that bridges the gap. Exactly what I needed.

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    doodleduckdoodleduck Registered User new member
    LXqDPfa.jpg
    shouldn't the green and brow lines on the left side of the building be parallel? they don't seem to quite match up. Same with both green lines on the right. is there a reason for this or is it drawn wrong?

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    curly haired boycurly haired boy Your Friendly Neighborhood Torgue Dealer Registered User regular
    actually, it's drawn correctly. that's 2 (or 3) point perspective. it's basically mimicking how parallel lines seems to converge the farther away they get from the observer.

    two_point_perspective.jpg

    RxI0N.png
    Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
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