Psychotic OneThe Lord of No PantsParts UnknownRegistered Userregular
I haven't played Tekken since the first Tag game on PS2. But I look at NRS and KI as two different types of fighting games. Netherrealm has that level of polish on their format and story that is hard to deny. But KI has that jump in and start doing cool guy stuff in the first hour that is so friendly to less than competitive players like myself. I can jump in and play the AI on Easy or Medium and feel like I am a decent player.
Man, after spending the past week playing Tekken and Killer Instinct I went from loving this game to feeling the NRS jank really hard.
After playing KI for a while and then coming to injustice I felt the opposite. It was a relief to be in this system. I just don't think I click with other fighters.
Man, after spending the past week playing Tekken and Killer Instinct I went from loving this game to feeling the NRS jank really hard.
Could you explain the "NRS jank" to someone who is new to the scene.
I could be way off, but I think it's generally about how the game's presentation is super polished, but the actual fighting gameplay is a lot less smooth than the more established fighting games.
IE:
Injustice 2, when you need to do a combo, you enter in a whole string of commands and hope that they connect right and carry through.
SFII you string combos together as they connect, so you can adjust your combo, or stop it, as you are hitting the opponent.
Man, after spending the past week playing Tekken and Killer Instinct I went from loving this game to feeling the NRS jank really hard.
Could you explain the "NRS jank" to someone who is new to the scene.
I have a 200 word essay somewhere else in this thread about this, but it boils down to this. For starters, the combo system is internally inconsistent. You have Injustice basically trying to have things both ways. You have a dial a combo where you input a string as fast as possible because you cannot hit confirm. Hit confirming is doing a first hit, seeing if it hits or not, then continuing or stopping depending on whether the first hit connects. You cannot do this in INJ. So, lets say your string is 123, then a special.
You have to dial in 123 quickly, then you would think, just input the special with the same rhythm. Nope, you have to wait and cancel the hit animation of the 3 into your special. Which is an SF-style combo convention. In odds with the dial-a-combo system used for the first part of the combo. So you are actually doing 123, PAUSE, then special cancel the 3.
You are using 2 different combo conventions within a single combo. This feels awkward and is not consistent. And that's just the combo system, not even talking about movement, hitstun/blockstun and so on.
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
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cptruggedI think it has something to do with free will.Registered Userregular
Man, after spending the past week playing Tekken and Killer Instinct I went from loving this game to feeling the NRS jank really hard.
Could you explain the "NRS jank" to someone who is new to the scene.
I have a 200 word essay somewhere else in this thread about this, but it boils down to this. For starters, the combo system is internally inconsistent. You have Injustice basically trying to have things both ways. You have a dial a combo where you input a string as fast as possible because you cannot hit confirm. Hit confirming is doing a first hit, seeing if it hits or not, then continuing or stopping depending on whether the first hit connects. You cannot do this in INJ. So, lets say your string is 123, then a special.
You have to dial in 123 quickly, then you would think, just input the special with the same rhythm. Nope, you have to wait and cancel the hit animation of the 3 into your special. Which is an SF-style combo convention. In odds with the dial-a-combo system used for the first part of the combo. So you are actually doing 123, PAUSE, then special cancel the 3.
You are using 2 different combo conventions within a single combo. This feels awkward and is not consistent. And that's just the combo system, not even talking about movement, hitstun/blockstun and so on.
Wait.. you have to cancel the animation on the last hit to do the special? I've just been trying to do this as a straight dial the whole time. Maybe this is why my combos come out so inconsistently. I thought this system was just dial and pray.
Got Red Hood to 20 today, he feels good. Got two abilities that are pretty decent, one replaces his parry (which I was meh) into a knife slash thing. Still didn't get the gun loading move, oh well. He's a fun character if a bit odd, I can see his leaps being abused though. Going back still gives meter so someone could really run away the entire match if they'd like and just throw out random shots. Not a big deal if someone has decent moves but for someone like Bane or Brainiac, good luck.
3DS Code - 5370-0463-9307 Wii U - 'Nocero' XBox ID - therealmasume PS4 ID - realmasume
Man, after spending the past week playing Tekken and Killer Instinct I went from loving this game to feeling the NRS jank really hard.
Could you explain the "NRS jank" to someone who is new to the scene.
I have a 200 word essay somewhere else in this thread about this, but it boils down to this. For starters, the combo system is internally inconsistent. You have Injustice basically trying to have things both ways. You have a dial a combo where you input a string as fast as possible because you cannot hit confirm. Hit confirming is doing a first hit, seeing if it hits or not, then continuing or stopping depending on whether the first hit connects. You cannot do this in INJ. So, lets say your string is 123, then a special.
You have to dial in 123 quickly, then you would think, just input the special with the same rhythm. Nope, you have to wait and cancel the hit animation of the 3 into your special. Which is an SF-style combo convention. In odds with the dial-a-combo system used for the first part of the combo. So you are actually doing 123, PAUSE, then special cancel the 3.
You are using 2 different combo conventions within a single combo. This feels awkward and is not consistent. And that's just the combo system, not even talking about movement, hitstun/blockstun and so on.
Wait.. you have to cancel the animation on the last hit to do the special? I've just been trying to do this as a straight dial the whole time. Maybe this is why my combos come out so inconsistently. I thought this system was just dial and pray.
Nope, certain combos you have to time the cancel. On Bane for example you have to wait for the 3 to connect on a 113 x special combo for the special to activate. If you dial straight out it doesn't work.
It gets better. Lets say the combo is 113, BF+1. If you are holding B during the 11 part, the B input will "time out" and even if you do the F+1 on the correct cancel window, it won't activate, because you holding B actually causes the game to deactivate B as part of a special move command. You have to quickly tap BF during the cancel window from neutral, or from a separate direction apart from B.
And then, you have specific combos that DO want you to straight mash the input as fast as possible. Supergirl f23, DB+1 requires you to input the DB+1 super fast to actually get the cancel off the 3, if you wait too long the cancel doesn't activate.
Hiryu02 on
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
I think that's because you turned off negative edge, @Hiryu02 ? Not sure if it times out with it on, but I could be wrong.
A lot of the combos are fairly dial-in. Even for special cancels on say, Beetle, I mash the crap out of his blades for his longer B+B and it works fine. Not sure why it would be different on other characters unless maybe changing the default settings made it that way?
Masume on
3DS Code - 5370-0463-9307 Wii U - 'Nocero' XBox ID - therealmasume PS4 ID - realmasume
I think that's because you turned off negative edge, @Hiryu02 ? Not sure if it times out with it on, but I could be wrong.
A lot of the combos are fairly dial-in. Even for special cancels on say, Beetle, I mash the crap out of his blades for his longer B+B and it works fine. Not sure why it would be different on other characters unless maybe changing the default settings made it that way?
I think that's because you turned off negative edge, @Hiryu02 ? Not sure if it times out with it on, but I could be wrong.
A lot of the combos are fairly dial-in. Even for special cancels on say, Beetle, I mash the crap out of his blades for his longer B+B and it works fine. Not sure why it would be different on other characters unless maybe changing the default settings made it that way?
This was tested by another PAer in the earlier iteration of this discussion, I believe. Diagonal inputs and negative edge do not make the timing windows more consistent. You still have the deactivation issue.
And to your point, mashing the special input actually does work, because you are repeating the input again and again and the repetition caused one of the inputs, the 3rd/4th etc to come out from neutral. If you do a straight clean input of 123 special, without the delay and with only one special input, it will fail.
And in my other example, supergirl for example wants you to mash out special cancels fast on her combos, but certain ones still like you to wait. This does change from character to character, and even in different combos from the same character. Bane 113 special has a different cancel window from his wallbounce, jump 2, 123 special combo. Same character.
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
I've always felt NRS combo timing is inconsistent from character to character. Like the same rules don't feel like they apply for the most part, it's hard to explain I guess but it feels odd to me and less consistent than something like Street Fighter.
The game also has some built-in leniency with the order of inputs, which is a big problem with combos like Poison Ivy's B2, D2 into DBF1 command grab. Two ways to do that combo are B2, D2, B, F1; or B2, D2, D, B, F1. With the first method, if you do it too fast the game interprets the D2, B inputs as DB2, canceling the first normal of the string into her vine drill. If you do the second method too fast it interprets the D2, D as DD2, canceling the first normal into her bark skin. I don't think I've ever seen a fighting game that rearranges the order of your inputs like this, and there's no way to turn it off.
I've always felt NRS combo timing is inconsistent from character to character. Like the same rules don't feel like they apply for the most part, it's hard to explain I guess but it feels odd to me and less consistent than something like Street Fighter.
I feel the same way.
Personally I think they focus more on making the characters individual than completely fitting into the the game system itself.
Don't forget the fact that the characters themselves don't move smoothly and the animations don't look intuitive / look bad (insert Biz thinks this is a bad fighting game here).
Single player and the AI teamfights are great! This game made me realize I want a Football Manager game, but for fighting games.
I want to run a dojo.
Bizazedo on
XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Don't forget the fact that the characters themselves don't move smoothly and the animations don't look intuitive / look bad (insert Biz thinks this is a bad fighting game here).
Single player and the AI teamfights are great! This game made me realize I want a Football Manager game, but for fighting games.
I want to run a dojo.
That's exactly what the AI stuff feels like to me too.
And I agree it would be awesome if they expanded the team fighting mode to be something more robust.
Don't forget the fact that the characters themselves don't move smoothly and the animations don't look intuitive / look bad (insert Biz thinks this is a bad fighting game here).
The thing that annoys me most about that is recovery animations. You do a thing, your character goes into a long recovery animation, they return to their idle pose, you try to do another thing but whoops your character actually isn't done recovering and they're just gonna stand there for a few more frames. You can't use the animations as an intuitive indicator of recovery time.
Don't forget the fact that the characters themselves don't move smoothly and the animations don't look intuitive / look bad (insert Biz thinks this is a bad fighting game here).
The thing that annoys me most about that is recovery animations. You do a thing, your character goes into a long recovery animation, they return to their idle pose, you try to do another thing but whoops your character actually isn't done recovering and they're just gonna stand there for a few more frames. You can't use the animations as an intuitive indicator of recovery time.
Yup, shit that looks safe actually isn't, and things that look mega punishable recover instantly. I think superman has a move that goes up into the air kind of like a diagonal shoryu, and it cannot be punished once he lands. You literally need to juggle punish it out of the air. I'm like what?
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
Don't forget the fact that the characters themselves don't move smoothly and the animations don't look intuitive / look bad (insert Biz thinks this is a bad fighting game here).
The thing that annoys me most about that is recovery animations. You do a thing, your character goes into a long recovery animation, they return to their idle pose, you try to do another thing but whoops your character actually isn't done recovering and they're just gonna stand there for a few more frames. You can't use the animations as an intuitive indicator of recovery time.
i've seen that across a few things as well. i don't recall this being the case with the fighters i used in MK. it's been so long since injustice 1 i don't remember about that
Only problem with waiting to open boxes... painful to go through ~400 and then clean out all the garbage they give you. And ~200 silver boxes, and over 20 bronze so far (as well as about a dozen gold/platinum mixed) without a single piece of gear for red hood. ugh
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Alright I'm getting ticked off now, Red Hood isn't showing up in my game to unlock.
I even did what Ravelle suggested up above and still get nothing. On the select screen it says he's available in the fighter pack 1, but I bought the ultimate edition. I know this, and the game knows this, because I have the skins and it won't even show the ultimate edition for purchase now. And I just played his first multiverse tower.
If you are on the XB1, go into manage game and make sure he's downloaded. Mine was just sitting there as "ready for download" and I had to manually kick it off, even with the fighter pack 1 downloaded.
This fixed it, which is weird.
Anyways, Jason's like a mix between Harley and Damian, doing that annoying thing the bat-family does which is make their specials more dependent on meter burning.
The Jann? If you mean Red Hood, he's pretty solid. He's not very flashy but he does a ton of damage with meter burn moves. I mean a ton. I went on a huge streak with him tonight just leaping and shooting.
3DS Code - 5370-0463-9307 Wii U - 'Nocero' XBox ID - therealmasume PS4 ID - realmasume
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Ov3rchargeR.I.P. Mass EffectYou were dead to me for yearsRegistered Userregular
I suck at him and I'm getting frustrated because I can't string any combo's with him, leaving me just standing there.
I see what he can do but I can't get a grasp on how to handle him. I don't like that I have to activate my electric hammers, having to activate them is a room for the enemy to attack and I can't ever chain anything after the first two 1-2 hits with them because the timing is weird.
Are you using his trait raw? Not a good reason to do so. I mainly use it as a way to maximize damage off of any hits that connect.
The timing on it is super weird though. You need to mash in the first three hits ASAP and then the last hit needs to be timed right. I suppose theoretically so you can mix it up based off how enemies are blocking your trait, but I mainly use it as a part of combos. The nice thing is once you figure out his trait that is a lot of his combo game figured out.
Wait, so there's no way to get Red Hood outside of the $20 pack? Which is 3x characters for $20, when Darkseid is $6... meaning the pack is $2 overpriced?
He means that you don't just activate his trait without using it off a combo string first. The only reason I ever do is to fire his pistol, otherwise I chain it off a couple of hits.
3DS Code - 5370-0463-9307 Wii U - 'Nocero' XBox ID - therealmasume PS4 ID - realmasume
Yeah, his trait is weird. It's clearly designed to act like a string you can mix the opponent up with on block, but it's too unsafe to throw out like that. So it's instead used to get good damage off of almost any hit you can get since you can cancel most of his strings and starters into it.
I also have not seen any real value in meter-burning it either since the throw deals almost the same damage and both end up with swapped sides.
tekken master just lost to insaynne in pool E. the latter's atrocitus 2-0, then tekkenmaster switches to black adam evens it at 2-2 then goes down in game 5 to gorilla grodd
Man, I'm just burning credits when those 100k+ multi events with the random ability come up... but almost every single one has been a wonder woman ability... I don't use wonder woman. It's driving me bonkers. I don't even have both ability slots filled on some characters because I don't get any for them... and she's got almost a full page of them.
EclecticGroove on
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HalfazedninjaAuthor of Jake Howard: Multiverse 101!Behind YouRegistered Userregular
Man, I'm just burning credits when those 100k+ multi events with the random ability come up... but almost every single one has been a wonder woman ability... I don't use wonder woman. It's driving me bonkers. I don't even have both ability slots filled on some characters because I don't get any for them... and she's got almost a full page of them.
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Could you explain the "NRS jank" to someone who is new to the scene.
After playing KI for a while and then coming to injustice I felt the opposite. It was a relief to be in this system. I just don't think I click with other fighters.
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I could be way off, but I think it's generally about how the game's presentation is super polished, but the actual fighting gameplay is a lot less smooth than the more established fighting games.
IE:
Injustice 2, when you need to do a combo, you enter in a whole string of commands and hope that they connect right and carry through.
SFII you string combos together as they connect, so you can adjust your combo, or stop it, as you are hitting the opponent.
Playing Tekken after Injustice feels like you're playing on miniature health bars, fights take a couple of seconds.
I have a 200 word essay somewhere else in this thread about this, but it boils down to this. For starters, the combo system is internally inconsistent. You have Injustice basically trying to have things both ways. You have a dial a combo where you input a string as fast as possible because you cannot hit confirm. Hit confirming is doing a first hit, seeing if it hits or not, then continuing or stopping depending on whether the first hit connects. You cannot do this in INJ. So, lets say your string is 123, then a special.
You have to dial in 123 quickly, then you would think, just input the special with the same rhythm. Nope, you have to wait and cancel the hit animation of the 3 into your special. Which is an SF-style combo convention. In odds with the dial-a-combo system used for the first part of the combo. So you are actually doing 123, PAUSE, then special cancel the 3.
You are using 2 different combo conventions within a single combo. This feels awkward and is not consistent. And that's just the combo system, not even talking about movement, hitstun/blockstun and so on.
Wait.. you have to cancel the animation on the last hit to do the special? I've just been trying to do this as a straight dial the whole time. Maybe this is why my combos come out so inconsistently. I thought this system was just dial and pray.
Wii U - 'Nocero'
XBox ID - therealmasume
PS4 ID - realmasume
Nope, certain combos you have to time the cancel. On Bane for example you have to wait for the 3 to connect on a 113 x special combo for the special to activate. If you dial straight out it doesn't work.
It gets better. Lets say the combo is 113, BF+1. If you are holding B during the 11 part, the B input will "time out" and even if you do the F+1 on the correct cancel window, it won't activate, because you holding B actually causes the game to deactivate B as part of a special move command. You have to quickly tap BF during the cancel window from neutral, or from a separate direction apart from B.
And then, you have specific combos that DO want you to straight mash the input as fast as possible. Supergirl f23, DB+1 requires you to input the DB+1 super fast to actually get the cancel off the 3, if you wait too long the cancel doesn't activate.
A lot of the combos are fairly dial-in. Even for special cancels on say, Beetle, I mash the crap out of his blades for his longer B+B and it works fine. Not sure why it would be different on other characters unless maybe changing the default settings made it that way?
Wii U - 'Nocero'
XBox ID - therealmasume
PS4 ID - realmasume
This
This was tested by another PAer in the earlier iteration of this discussion, I believe. Diagonal inputs and negative edge do not make the timing windows more consistent. You still have the deactivation issue.
And to your point, mashing the special input actually does work, because you are repeating the input again and again and the repetition caused one of the inputs, the 3rd/4th etc to come out from neutral. If you do a straight clean input of 123 special, without the delay and with only one special input, it will fail.
And in my other example, supergirl for example wants you to mash out special cancels fast on her combos, but certain ones still like you to wait. This does change from character to character, and even in different combos from the same character. Bane 113 special has a different cancel window from his wallbounce, jump 2, 123 special combo. Same character.
I feel the same way.
Personally I think they focus more on making the characters individual than completely fitting into the the game system itself.
Single player and the AI teamfights are great! This game made me realize I want a Football Manager game, but for fighting games.
I want to run a dojo.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
That's exactly what the AI stuff feels like to me too.
And I agree it would be awesome if they expanded the team fighting mode to be something more robust.
The thing that annoys me most about that is recovery animations. You do a thing, your character goes into a long recovery animation, they return to their idle pose, you try to do another thing but whoops your character actually isn't done recovering and they're just gonna stand there for a few more frames. You can't use the animations as an intuitive indicator of recovery time.
Yup, shit that looks safe actually isn't, and things that look mega punishable recover instantly. I think superman has a move that goes up into the air kind of like a diagonal shoryu, and it cannot be punished once he lands. You literally need to juggle punish it out of the air. I'm like what?
i've seen that across a few things as well. i don't recall this being the case with the fighters i used in MK. it's been so long since injustice 1 i don't remember about that
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This fixed it, which is weird.
Anyways, Jason's like a mix between Harley and Damian, doing that annoying thing the bat-family does which is make their specials more dependent on meter burning.
Anyone in PA here want to work on some practice nights or give useful info?
Wii U - 'Nocero'
XBox ID - therealmasume
PS4 ID - realmasume
So I caved and bought the fighter pack, maybe I'm playing him wrong but anyone else not really impressed by him?
Wii U - 'Nocero'
XBox ID - therealmasume
PS4 ID - realmasume
I see what he can do but I can't get a grasp on how to handle him. I don't like that I have to activate my electric hammers, having to activate them is a room for the enemy to attack and I can't ever chain anything after the first two 1-2 hits with them because the timing is weird.
The timing on it is super weird though. You need to mash in the first three hits ASAP and then the last hit needs to be timed right. I suppose theoretically so you can mix it up based off how enemies are blocking your trait, but I mainly use it as a part of combos. The nice thing is once you figure out his trait that is a lot of his combo game figured out.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
He means that you don't just activate his trait without using it off a combo string first. The only reason I ever do is to fire his pistol, otherwise I chain it off a couple of hits.
Wii U - 'Nocero'
XBox ID - therealmasume
PS4 ID - realmasume
I also have not seen any real value in meter-burning it either since the throw deals almost the same damage and both end up with swapped sides.
result spoiler in pool E
tekken master just lost to insaynne in pool E. the latter's atrocitus 2-0, then tekkenmaster switches to black adam evens it at 2-2 then goes down in game 5 to gorilla grodd
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Switch FC: SW-7588-7027-0113, Steam/PSN: Halfazedninja
Does the gear bias effect that?
Switch FC: SW-7588-7027-0113, Steam/PSN: Halfazedninja