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[Star Control] Origins is out NOW. Be sure to enjoy the sauce.

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    Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    It should be noted that Activison wouldn't let P&F work on a new game for a long time, and they do have another one in progress now.

    It was probably for the best anyway, the way the "AAA" publishers were trending the market at the time was not conducive to anything we would have wanted to see out of a Star Control. Don't forget, this is what Accolade was planning to do with their control of the Star Control name before somebody in the company was smart enough (though likely unintentionally so) to kill it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkfn_vBoajg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3NKQKreOMI

    If we look over to the Activision side of the equation, being forced to chug out a decade of shitty movie adaptations is probably a better option for P+F than what Activision would have wanted them to do to not-Star Control(this is where we assume until proven otherwise that P+F would not be able to use the Star Control name) in order to be more marketable to mid-2000s video game consumers.
    Goodness.

    That was supposed to release in 1998? That's the same year XCOM Interceptor came out.

    Was there something in the water in the mid 90s? Something that made popular franchises believe there was a successful Wing Commander inside them yearning to be free?

    The 90s was filled with attempts at action game spinoffs of non-action franchises, some of which didn't come out til the early 2000s. See also X-Com Enforcer, Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel (not Tactics, the third person action game), and certainly a bunch I'm forgetting. A few did come out decently to well (Dark Messiah of Might and Magic comes to mind) but those were rare.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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    DrezDrez Registered User regular
    FO: BoS was decent for what it was. The Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance games were goddamned beautiful at the time, and I think FO: BoS used the same engine. Of course, that meant a lot of beautiful barrels of toxic sludge but...still pretty.

    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
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    Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Quiotu wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »

    There's no back, and I don't think the rights are assigned to Toys for Bob. They're assigned to P&F themselves.

    I mean... does it matter? Can P+F make another game without Activision's blessing?

    Sure, P+F can try and make a Star Control game on their own without a dev team and a publisher backing them. But that's not a plan... that's a Kickstarter.

    They are so apparently they think so.

    Bear in mind, Fred Ford is one heck of a programmer and did most of the work on SCII himself, and PFIII has one of the best resumes in game design going right now - he went from D&D and Gamma World 3rd ed to computer games, that's how long he's been at it. If FF has kept current, that's a good part of an indie team himself, before what's left of the Skylanders money after Wardell's been driven off can be used to hire and commission.

    I would rather be accused of intransigence than tolerating genocide for the sake of everyone getting along. - @Metzger Meister
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    Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Erlkönig wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    It should be noted that Activison wouldn't let P&F work on a new game for a long time, and they do have another one in progress now.

    Do they, though? Aside from them saying that they were working on it over a year ago, has there been any further word on their project? Are they even still working on it, or have they diverted all money and attention towards their legal tiff with Stardock?

    I imagine they're doing what Stardock *should* have and not talking about it much til after the court case.
    Quiotu wrote: »
    Here's something else to consider. Toys For Bob is P+F's company, and Activision bought them as a subsidiary back in 2005. If P+F get full rights back for Star Control, does that mean Activision has that IP as well?

    Is Activision having the copyright instead of Stardock... better?

    There's no back, and I don't think the rights are assigned to Toys for Bob. They're assigned to P&F themselves.

    Paul Reiche, to be specific IIRC, hence the formal name of the IP.

    I would rather be accused of intransigence than tolerating genocide for the sake of everyone getting along. - @Metzger Meister
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    CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    A while back, I got Halycon 6: Lightspeed Edition as part of some bundle. I've put about 20 hours into the game and haven't beaten it yet (though I think I am getting close). This game really feels like if it came out in the same era as Star Control 2 it would be remembered super fondly and be on the slate for all sorts of re-makes. Played in the current era, it's pretty good. The only thing I regret is not picking up the Precursor DLC as it adds some alternate progression paths to the main game that mix things up and prevent combat from becoming too stale. That said, the RPG approach to characters and combat combined with some resource gathering setup and very flavourful and funny aliens makes it tick all the boxes to be a classic. It probably won't become one given the deluge of games available these days, but it's a solid offering and there's a surprisingly deep well of enjoyable content available. If you are a Star Control fan, I'd give it a look.

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    DrezDrez Registered User regular
    By the way, this is back up for sale on Steam.

    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
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    kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    It's actually a pretty strong case, from the existing precedent on clone games - any of the concepts, or gameplay loops or the like, alone, wouldn't be a case, but as a whole - aka, the way that stuff works - it's pretty compelling, especially given that Wardell only brought the SCIII stuff, not the actual Reiche IP. It's especially damning in the context that Wardell was trying, specifically, to make a 'SC Game.'

    Edit: They are not claiming space games, they are showing that Wardell copied a lot of game-play and creative choices from SCII to a plagaristic degree.

    A software dev guy explains why it's so compelling:



    To quote them:
    It's clear to us that Stardock chose to make Origins substantially similar to SC2 instead of using the original material they purchased in SC3. We don't claim to have a copyright on all interstellar travel, but we do have a copyright on the specific way we expressed interstellar travel in Star Control II. We see many such examples in Star Control: Origins where its expression is substantially similar to and/or derivative of our copyright-protected work, without our permission.



    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    Wait is that why people hate Brad? I have not dug into the negative opinions around him (other than the claims re: Star Control).

    There is a whole pile of things to dislike him for. But there is an employee who acccused him of harassment. His response was to sue her for.. stealing company stuff I think? There was a rather suspicious settlement.

    Worth noting that very silly goose used the same tactics there.

    @Jeep-Eep can you provide some case cites on why this copyright argument might be valid?

    The “look and feel argument” seems like it has weight but gameplay mechanics aren’t copyrightable any more than other abstract ideas are copyrightable and half of the entries on that chart seem to be gameplay mechanics. This is ultimately a good thing though I never wish good things on Brad Wardell especially as he’s the one abusing IP law here, presumably in the expectation he can litigate this until the real star control folks run out of money. That’s one reason I’m not buying any stardom games any more - it just funds his legal war chest to bully others.

    kaliyama on
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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Each example on it's own would be fine. Combining them all together and you start getting side eye for derivative work.

    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/06/defining-tetris-how-courts-judge-gaming-clones/

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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Drez wrote: »
    By the way, this is back up for sale on Steam.

    They probably filed a counter-claim shortly after the takedown. Timing seems right, as that would have been 10-14 business days ago. P&F would have been informed and would have had to file a court order in that time to keep it down, or Steam would be obliged to put it back up.

    (This is the first time I've actually seen that process play out, it's kind of interesting!)

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
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    Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    By the way, this is back up for sale on Steam.

    They probably filed a counter-claim shortly after the takedown. Timing seems right, as that would have been 10-14 business days ago. P&F would have been informed and would have had to file a court order in that time to keep it down, or Steam would be obliged to put it back up.

    (This is the first time I've actually seen that process play out, it's kind of interesting!)

    DMCA takedowns are also a very dangerous game, if you lose and you initiate, it can be treble damages and attorneys fees. They may have withdrawn the DMCA claim while this plays out elsewhere.

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    It seems sort of telling that the game isn't discounted on Steam. And it's not discounted at Stardock any more either.

    Jazz on
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    DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    It seems sort of telling that the game isn't discounted on Steam. And it's not discounted at Stardock any more either.

    Yep.

    No more fire sale.

    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
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    HandkorHandkor Registered User regular
    Anybody that is still interested in Star Control it is listed and on sale today on Steam for 50% off.

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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    edited March 2019
    Wardell controversy aside, the new Star Control is actually a solid game and is in itself worth a grab. The story is basically The Orville of space adventures as far as writing complexity goes, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Gameplay itself is a pretty straightforward Star Control 2 experience.

    Donnicton on
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    Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    By the way, this is back up for sale on Steam.

    They probably filed a counter-claim shortly after the takedown. Timing seems right, as that would have been 10-14 business days ago. P&F would have been informed and would have had to file a court order in that time to keep it down, or Steam would be obliged to put it back up.

    (This is the first time I've actually seen that process play out, it's kind of interesting!)

    DMCA takedowns are also a very dangerous game, if you lose and you initiate, it can be treble damages and attorneys fees. They may have withdrawn the DMCA claim while this plays out elsewhere.

    Equally dangerous for someone making a counterclaim; Wardell may have perjured himself.

    I would rather be accused of intransigence than tolerating genocide for the sake of everyone getting along. - @Metzger Meister
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    Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    https://www.dogarandkazon.com/blog/2019/6/8/unexpected-message-from-space

    Looks like a probable outcome of that settlement this week was Wardell largely taking P+F's initial settlement; he was wise to, as that trial would have likely put Stardock in receivership.

    Jeep-Eep on
    I would rather be accused of intransigence than tolerating genocide for the sake of everyone getting along. - @Metzger Meister
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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    So, are we finally done with hearing how turbo fucked SC:O is?

    Because I just caught up on 3 pages of posts, and that was... like, all of it.

    Or is this just chapter one in the turbo fucking somehow?

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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    Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Forar wrote: »
    So, are we finally done with hearing how turbo fucked SC:O is?

    Because I just caught up on 3 pages of posts, and that was... like, all of it.

    Or is this just chapter one in the turbo fucking somehow?

    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/06/stardock-and-star-control-creators-settle-lawsuits-with-mead-and-honey/

    If it had went to trial, Stardock would, in all likelihood, not have been a thing next year, with the penalties he was looking at. It would have forced the liquidation of the company.

    That goose Wardell basically took the settlement, with a little volunteer work to sweeten the deal. I imagine it's probably not as amicable as they say, but it makes it stop.

    Here's hoping I never have to hear about him again... and that Paul and Fred watch their backs on this, Wardell is not someone I'd trust.

    At all.

    Edit:My read of this article is a lot more cynical - this is at minimum largely theater, largely for the purpose of settling a possible grievance of Wardell, lost reputation, and both sides know it. Wardell only took the civilized option because the uncivilized option was going to end horribly for him, and it was becoming increasingly obvious.

    Jeep-Eep on
    I would rather be accused of intransigence than tolerating genocide for the sake of everyone getting along. - @Metzger Meister
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    HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Forar wrote: »
    So, are we finally done with hearing how turbo fucked SC:O is?

    Because I just caught up on 3 pages of posts, and that was... like, all of it.

    Or is this just chapter one in the turbo fucking somehow?

    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/06/stardock-and-star-control-creators-settle-lawsuits-with-mead-and-honey/

    If it had went to trial, Stardock would, in all likelihood, not have been a thing next year, with the penalties he was looking at. It would have forced the liquidation of the company.

    That goose Wardell basically took the settlement, with a little volunteer work to sweeten the deal. I imagine it's probably not as amicable as they say, but it makes it stop.

    Here's hoping I never have to hear about him again... and that Paul and Fred watch their backs on this, Wardell is not someone I'd trust.

    At all.

    Edit:My read of this article is a lot more cynical - this is at minimum largely theater, largely for the purpose of settling a possible grievance of Wardell, lost reputation, and both sides know it. Wardell only took the civilized option because the uncivilized option was going to end horribly for him, and it was becoming increasingly obvious.

    Hmm lets see, who do I believe.

    The people actually involved in the dispute and the settlement or someone who has a ridiculously obvious axe to grind?

    Yeah, I think I'll go with the people actually involved.

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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Forar wrote: »
    So, are we finally done with hearing how turbo fucked SC:O is?

    Because I just caught up on 3 pages of posts, and that was... like, all of it.

    Or is this just chapter one in the turbo fucking somehow?

    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/06/stardock-and-star-control-creators-settle-lawsuits-with-mead-and-honey/

    If it had went to trial, Stardock would, in all likelihood, not have been a thing next year, with the penalties he was looking at. It would have forced the liquidation of the company.

    That goose Wardell basically took the settlement, with a little volunteer work to sweeten the deal. I imagine it's probably not as amicable as they say, but it makes it stop.

    Here's hoping I never have to hear about him again... and that Paul and Fred watch their backs on this, Wardell is not someone I'd trust.

    At all.

    Edit:My read of this article is a lot more cynical - this is at minimum largely theater, largely for the purpose of settling a possible grievance of Wardell, lost reputation, and both sides know it. Wardell only took the civilized option because the uncivilized option was going to end horribly for him, and it was becoming increasingly obvious.

    Hmm lets see, who do I believe.

    The people actually involved in the dispute and the settlement or someone who has a ridiculously obvious axe to grind?

    Yeah, I think I'll go with the people actually involved.

    Wardell's an enormous dick who has a history of using lawsuits to shut people up, so it's not entirely out of possibility. The settlement terms being public make it less likely, though.

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    HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    Oh I'm not gonna defend Wardell, the man is definitely a dumbass.

    But when the two people that he was in an IP dispute come out and say "It's all good" I'm gonna take them at their word.

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    Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Forar wrote: »
    So, are we finally done with hearing how turbo fucked SC:O is?

    Because I just caught up on 3 pages of posts, and that was... like, all of it.

    Or is this just chapter one in the turbo fucking somehow?

    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/06/stardock-and-star-control-creators-settle-lawsuits-with-mead-and-honey/

    If it had went to trial, Stardock would, in all likelihood, not have been a thing next year, with the penalties he was looking at. It would have forced the liquidation of the company.

    That goose Wardell basically took the settlement, with a little volunteer work to sweeten the deal. I imagine it's probably not as amicable as they say, but it makes it stop.

    Here's hoping I never have to hear about him again... and that Paul and Fred watch their backs on this, Wardell is not someone I'd trust.

    At all.

    Edit:My read of this article is a lot more cynical - this is at minimum largely theater, largely for the purpose of settling a possible grievance of Wardell, lost reputation, and both sides know it. Wardell only took the civilized option because the uncivilized option was going to end horribly for him, and it was becoming increasingly obvious.

    Hmm lets see, who do I believe.

    The people actually involved in the dispute and the settlement or someone who has a ridiculously obvious axe to grind?

    Yeah, I think I'll go with the people actually involved.

    Having seen the court documents on PACER, they had Wardell bent over a barrel. This is a bit of theater to obey Sun Tzu's advice to let beaten opponents flee, while making them think Sempai's noticed him.

    I would rather be accused of intransigence than tolerating genocide for the sake of everyone getting along. - @Metzger Meister
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    QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    https://www.dogarandkazon.com/blog/2019/6/11/the-only-way-to-win-is

    This is from Paul and Fred directly. If this is all correct, it's what I expected. Both sides were set to lose an incredible amount from the lawsuits, the fans would rebel, and everyone would lose. So they talked to each other directly instead of using sleazy lawyers and came up with an amicable agreement. I'll post the bulletpoints here to save some time, but basically... full steam ahead assuming everyone plays nice like they're saying.


    'The terms are not confidential. We won't be publishing the text of the agreement, but we are free to describe all of its contents.

    This is honestly and truly an amicable settlement. Not only are we settling the lawsuit, but we’ve decided to support each other’s development so that the fan community gets two great games.

    There is no 'loser'. All sides win, because we are no longer burning money, creative energy and the goodwill of our fans.

    No money changed hands. We’re not only halting the lawsuit, but we’re committed to supporting each other’s projects and working together to rebuild the cracks in the fan community.

    There is a weird paragraph in the agreement that involves bees. Seriously — no kidding. Brad Wardell is giving Fred and Paul honey from his hives and Paul is giving Brad some bottles of his homemade mead. Brad will also be giving Paul advice in how not to be stung. The lawyers thought this was pretty dang crazy. This goes to show you can find common ground in the strangest (and most delicious) of places.

    Stardock will create new games in the Star Control franchise. Paul & Fred will create new games in the Ur-Quan Masters franchise.

    To help differentiate the two franchises Paul volunteered to create a few new alien races for Origins.

    Brad offered to help Fred and Paul with technology.

    Stardock dropped all its alien name and character trademarks and all parties have dropped their oppositions to each other’s trademarks.

    Both sides recognize each other’s copyrights and will not challenge them in the future.

    We were able to come to a very specific understanding on the alien characters and races — how they look and act. Stardock is dropping all trademark registration of the alien names and won't use the described aliens without permission from Paul & Fred.

    Star Control, Star Control II, and Star Control III will be coming back for sale by Stardock so that fans of all ages can enjoy the classic games in their original form. Paul and Fred will split royalties equally with Stardock.

    Stardock, and Brad in particular, is supportive of Paul and Fred owning the Ur-Quan Masters trademark. All of us are committed to support the current UQM team and project, including their having a free, perpetual right to use the Ur-Quan Masters trademark for their amazing fan-powered recreation of the original game.

    Stardock accepts that Paul & Fred are the creators of Star Control and Star Control II. Both parties agree that many other skilled people also contributed their talent and creativity to help make the games so great.

    Paul and Fred will be changing the name "Ghosts of the Precursors" to something a little less generic -- (come on, you know we can do better!). The precise ‘when’ is unclear, but it is still several years off.

    The settlement resolved all issues with all the parties, including Valve and GOG.

    Paul enjoyed Origins enough to spend over 50 intense hours playing the game. He thought the jokes in the alien dialog were genuinely very funny and he was blown away by how beautifully interplanetary travel was rendered. Paul was especially delighted that he could remap the control keys to his beloved SpaceWar! configuration.

    We are honestly very, very happy with the way everything has settled. No Dnyarri mental compulsion was needed.'

    wbee62u815wj.png
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    Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    Dude, Wardell's case was collapsing and GOG had tried to punch out of this case and failed. He was basically dead in the water and listing. This is theater for the sake of saving the large expense of the jury trial and killing a grievance of Wardell's and/or appeasing Wardell's ego, while making sure their IP are divorced with some finality.

    I watched the PACER, he was in bad shape.

    I would rather be accused of intransigence than tolerating genocide for the sake of everyone getting along. - @Metzger Meister
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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    Any settlement that includes an apiary clause is alright with me.

    I hope the collector's edition comes with some Star Control mead.

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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Quiotu wrote: »
    This is honestly and truly an amicable settlement. Not only are we settling the lawsuit, but we’ve decided to support each other’s development so that the fan community gets two great games.

    ...

    No money changed hands. We’re not only halting the lawsuit, but we’re committed to supporting each other’s projects and working together to rebuild the cracks in the fan community.

    This is what they(both sides) claimed they were doing to begin with before they descended into childish bickering. Hopefully now that it's all drawn up legal-like, this time around they'll stick to the claim.

    Donnicton on
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    DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Dude, Wardell's case was collapsing and GOG had tried to punch out of this case and failed. He was basically dead in the water and listing. This is theater for the sake of saving the large expense of the jury trial and killing a grievance of Wardell's and/or appeasing Wardell's ego, while making sure their IP are divorced with some finality.

    I watched the PACER, he was in bad shape.

    I’m not sure what a PACER is...?

    Anyway, I’m going to be optimistic rather than cynical and take the announcement at face value. At the end of the day, we are where we are, and Paul, Fred, and Brad seem to be singing the same tune, so regardless of what has transpired and why, there’s really no good reason not to just accept what we’re being told and move on. There doesn’t seem to be any negative aspect to what we’re being told.

    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
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    Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Drez wrote: »
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Dude, Wardell's case was collapsing and GOG had tried to punch out of this case and failed. He was basically dead in the water and listing. This is theater for the sake of saving the large expense of the jury trial and killing a grievance of Wardell's and/or appeasing Wardell's ego, while making sure their IP are divorced with some finality.

    I watched the PACER, he was in bad shape.

    I’m not sure what a PACER is...?

    Anyway, I’m going to be optimistic rather than cynical and take the announcement at face value. At the end of the day, we are where we are, and Paul, Fred, and Brad seem to be singing the same tune, so regardless of what has transpired and why, there’s really no good reason not to just accept what we’re being told and move on. There doesn’t seem to be any negative aspect to what we’re being told.

    PACER is a service for viewing legal docs; Wardell was getting his ass kicked. This was basically them accepting a surrender with some token concessions; considering they may have gotten some technical outsourcing for free or at cost, I daresay they may well have come away a decisive victor.

    Jeep-Eep on
    I would rather be accused of intransigence than tolerating genocide for the sake of everyone getting along. - @Metzger Meister
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    QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Dude, Wardell's case was collapsing and GOG had tried to punch out of this case and failed. He was basically dead in the water and listing. This is theater for the sake of saving the large expense of the jury trial and killing a grievance of Wardell's and/or appeasing Wardell's ego, while making sure their IP are divorced with some finality.

    I watched the PACER, he was in bad shape.

    I’m not sure what a PACER is...?

    Anyway, I’m going to be optimistic rather than cynical and take the announcement at face value. At the end of the day, we are where we are, and Paul, Fred, and Brad seem to be singing the same tune, so regardless of what has transpired and why, there’s really no good reason not to just accept what we’re being told and move on. There doesn’t seem to be any negative aspect to what we’re being told.

    PACER is a service for viewing legal docs; Wardell was getting his ass kicked. This was basically them accepting a surrender with some token concessions; considering they may have gotten some technical outsourcing for free or at cost, I daresay they may well have come away a decisive victor.

    People can pick sides however they want. I'm just glad it's over, and it stays over for the coming years. Full stop.

    wbee62u815wj.png
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    Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    Quiotu wrote: »
    I'm just glad it's over, and it stays over for the coming years. Full stop.

    That I agree, though I will not forgive CDPR for the cockup that helped start it.

    I would rather be accused of intransigence than tolerating genocide for the sake of everyone getting along. - @Metzger Meister
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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Quiotu wrote: »
    I'm just glad it's over, and it stays over for the coming years. Full stop.

    That I agree, though I will not forgive CDPR for the cockup that helped start it.

    What did CDPR do here?

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    Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Quiotu wrote: »
    I'm just glad it's over, and it stays over for the coming years. Full stop.

    That I agree, though I will not forgive CDPR for the cockup that helped start it.

    What did CDPR do here?

    One of the inciting incidents was GOG fucking up with royalties and copyright. I'll have to do some digging for the specifics.

    I would rather be accused of intransigence than tolerating genocide for the sake of everyone getting along. - @Metzger Meister
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    KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Final episode of the earth rising dlc is out now. Going to run through a replay with all the expansion content.

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    Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
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