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[PATV] Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - Extra Credits Season 6, Ep. 20: Game Compulsion (Part 3)
That was beautiful. Games really do show us who we could be and what we could accomplish as long as we understand that we're important and in control of our lives and destinies.
I have watched every Extra Credits and this is the first time I've been compelled to comment. Thank you so very much for talking about this. And getting it so right, as you always seem to do. It was, suffice it to say, very serendipitous timing.
I've been wrestling with some tough choices and trials lately, and feeling rather powerless. Today, I cracked Skyrim open again, and won the respect of an immortal dragon by besting him in single combat on the edge of Oblivion itself.
In addition to knowing your place in the game, being able to impact it visibly, and being in control; there's one more thing that helps me. Clear desire, you don't have to muck about with the expectations of others the needs of others, or how those needs should be met. Sure in games like Fallout and Arcanum your actions can have unexpected results, but everyone you meet has a problem they want solved and they lay it out for you.
In real life, it seems like people will wander around miserable with no grasp of why, recoiling from any helping hand; even when you find the right solution for a person and they are willing to accept it, there are always fat vultures waiting to snatch up that life line.
The reality is that you're trying to make it sound like more than it is, like there is some depth to it.
The reality is, not so much. It has nothing to do with being "lost" in society. I think it has to do with engagement.
The truth is that games are just something you can spend time doing. And because you can spend an enormous amount of time on games, you can siphon away huge amounts of your time.
It is worth noting that the worst cases of game addiction come when you combine that with the skinner box techniques of MMOs. Sure, people get addicted to other sorts of games, but MMOs are particularly bad about it - and most of the other types of games that people get addicted to give rewards at a pretty high rate as well. People don't get addicted to "normal" games that much - it is mostly games that involve other people, multiplayer or MMO, that do it.
The idea that it has anything to do with society is feel-good nonsense to make yourself feel more significant, that the compulsion matters in some real way.
Careful what words you're throwing around there, TD. You speak about "the reality" and "the truth" of life and gaming, and about how an individual experiences the world invariably. You attempt to discredit the "depth" of an issue which, I'm assuming, you have no conscious experience of to associate. Any such reduction is...well, ignorant.
You're right that the compulsion doesn't "matter" in a real way. Compulsion is just that - a thing that pushes people into specific circumstances beyond a person's ability to choose otherwise. It's true that undeniable compulsion is rarely actually experienced, but the *feeling* of being out of control is something incredibly common. The idea that society (which totally has its shit together, right?) doesn't always nurture or reward us as individuals is, so far as any reasonable, reality-based perspective could gather, true.
You mentioned that MMOs are the most addictive type of game for two reasons - 1) Levels of engagement and 2) Skinner box techniques. But this begs a question: Why are these people so disengaged with their own lives that they would have to escape into a fantasy? I think the EC crew did a good job discussing possible reasons without being strictly dogmatic.
Society is a collection of individuals in interaction, nothing more. If an individual within society feels left out, under-appreciated, or helpless, a story-telling medium which focuses almost strictly on feelings of empowerment (barring horror games, of course) could become quite a treacherous path to walk.
Give the video a second look, and instead of focusing on the social ideology, try to focus on the hypothetical of the individual within such a construct. Attempt an educational or empathic stance, and you may gather something more from the discussion.
@Titanium Dragon
(Huh, this thing doesn't like spaces. Oh well...)
Engagement is a good term to describe the mechanism by which game compulsion works. That's why games are more compelling than books, comics, pottery, whatever.
However, I don't believe you're right in calling it the cause of game compulsion. I mean, people get the same level of other needs-defying complusive devotion to collecting porcelain dogs or rearranging furniture. It's not that there's something engaging to do, it's that there's something disappointing, unrewarding or frustrating that you don't want to do.
Does it have something to do with society? Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Depends on what the person's problem is.
But claiming that compulsion doesn't matter in a real way is, well, kind of a dick move. If there's anything that hinders you meeting your needs, hinders functioning, then yes that is a real problem that matters in a real way.
Don't mean to come off as harsh, and I'm curious as to what contact have you had with game compulsion. Where are you coming from?
Honestly, that episode made me feel like I was being talked down at, condescended to, I always thought that people play games because they're more engaging than anything else (plus the Skinner box things with some games). I didn't realise you could be addicted to games that weren't made by Zynga. (They are EVIL!)
You could also tie the gaming into getting back into the real world. The Nintendo 3DS streetpass feature is a good way to get out and get seeing the popular tourist attractions of your area as there is bound to be at least one other person with a 3DS somewhere in the popular places.
As a 29 year old male, unemployed and weighed down by not knowing what my role in life is, this made me cry.
So this is what it's like to be understood.
This video is a spark of brilliance, and has a really wise message.
I think this is also one of the root causes why people are susceptible to religious indoctrination or political exploitation and trickery.
Even as adults, we tend to behave like children in some ways - we fell lost, and expect to be told what our purpose is, and to be guided by some abstract, benevolent parent figure. Except there is no such a thing.
We need to wake up, and *find* our own purpose, pursue our own goals and interest. We need to be willing to work around obstacles, to rise again no matter how many times we fall.
We cannot expect stability as something given - we must fight to create it. We need to accept change as a fact of life, and learn how to bend with the wind.
We need make our inner child grow up, even if it doesn't want to.
That, I think, is the message of this brilliant episode.
This episode pretty much covers everything I've been going through for at least the last couple of years. The trick is, I don't think your solution of creating your own worth works at all.
The reason why games are so powerful is because I don't think we can be self-sufficient in this area. We've got to have some form of positive feedback, and games provide this all the time. The only way out is to connect with other people. You've got to go out there and expose yourself to the world and find a place where what you do does matter. Otherwise life will wear you down since you don't have that support network and you will sink into the games for respite.
KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
edited July 2013
Wow, fucking-- realist possible talk here on Extra Credits. I was not expecting that. This is probably one of my favorite episodes besides the GYMNHT series.
I mean look at all the new commenters already. Great work fellas.
P.S. you tag names with spaces by using quotes: @enter name here.
I'm never sure if I was actually addicted to WoW or if I just liked the sense of community and belonging in my guild and the camaraderie of working together in 40 man dungeons to take down ridiculously hard bosses. I think the earlier points in this video about filling a role really made sense. In fact, I went from a DPS class in a 40-Man Cog Machine (which was still important, but didn't feel as much so as I was easily replaced by other DPS) to a Healer in a 10-Man group. That was SUCH a drastic change, before I was playing so I wouldn't fall behind in DKP (a system we eventually ditched because it made people prioritize a game over real life, also with smaller raid groups it was easier to make sure everyone got a shot at something.)
As a Healer however, I felt like it was my heals, my abilities, and all the stuff I was doing that was a make or break point for whether my ragtag group of friends could take down a boss or not. In fact, it probably WAS. But, it was more than just feeling "needed", I almost felt an obligation to be there. Like it was my job/purpose. It felt like 9 other peoples fun night depended on my presence, like I was the host at a party, and if I wasn't there to throw the party then I was letting people down and wasting their weekend nights. Eventually the group split apart, people got bored or burnt out or whatever, and once there was no longer a group of people I enjoyed playing with I lost my will to continue playing.
So, yeah, it was hard to tell if I was ever actually addicted in that... y'know, "Can't stop grinding, gotta be the best" sort of way. I think it was just that sense of purpose and having a sense of pride in my work/abilities, but then even to take it to the next level, that without me the group wouldn't progress, people would get frustrated, they'd have a bad time, etc.
The reality is that you're trying to make it sound like more than it is, like there is some depth to it.
The reality is, not so much. It has nothing to do with being "lost" in society. I think it has to do with engagement.
The truth is that games are just something you can spend time doing. And because you can spend an enormous amount of time on games, you can siphon away huge amounts of your time.
It is worth noting that the worst cases of game addiction come when you combine that with the skinner box techniques of MMOs. Sure, people get addicted to other sorts of games, but MMOs are particularly bad about it - and most of the other types of games that people get addicted to give rewards at a pretty high rate as well. People don't get addicted to "normal" games that much - it is mostly games that involve other people, multiplayer or MMO, that do it.
The idea that it has anything to do with society is feel-good nonsense to make yourself feel more significant, that the compulsion matters in some real way.
It doesn't.
Or you know, that MMO's cater to social needs along with the needs other games meet and have a larger amount of content to allow addictive behaviours to grow more easily because people don't have to switch games.
Saying things like 'people don't get addicted to 'normal' games' when that clearly isn't the case or putting forwards your interpretation with words like 'the reality is' or 'the truth' doesn't help the discussion at all.
Plus if you're willing to say 'it is mostly games that involve other people, multiplayer or MMO, that do it.' how can you then go on to dismiss the idea that it could well be a matter of social needs not being met as opposed to simply a skinner box?
You guys always do a great job of tying the theme of each episode into a much broader concept. This is why I enjoy the Gamification series so much; I was able to show those to my dad and have spark some very interesting conversations.
This one really hit the nail on the head for me, and now I'm just sitting here reflecting on a lot of the past choices I've made in my life, not just games, because a lot of the points you brought up can be applied to, well, all things in life.
I would love this episode, if I didn't fundamentally disagree with its conclusions. The extremely common lack of hope and ironically irrational dismissal of higher purposes in this hobby's community really frustrates me.
Nice episode . It reminded met of Jane McGonigal's "Reality is Broken" (great book, if gamification interests you even a little bit, you owe it to yourself to read it!). It deals with how gamification can make everyday life more like a game and by doing so increase our sense of agency and achievement. It's not possible in every aspect of life, but a lot of mundane tasks can be made much more exciting by adding game elements. Perhaps games like that could even be a way out for people that are suffering from game compulsion
Thank you for finally putting words to the issue that has dogged me for years. I've understood the problem but could never articulate it.
It makes me feel incredibly lucky to have a family and a significant other of 10 years who are both trying to (and succeeding in) help me stay reengaged without demonizing the hobby I find myself passionate about. James sharing he experience previously hit a note but it never hit quite as solidly as this one did.
...Or perhaps I wasn't quite as far out of self-denial as I am now.
Nice episode . It reminded met of Jane McGonigal's "Reality is Broken" (great book, if gamification interests you even a little bit, you owe it to yourself to read it!). It deals with how gamification can make everyday life more like a game and by doing so increase our sense of agency and achievement. It's not possible in every aspect of life, but a lot of mundane tasks can be made much more exciting by adding game elements. Perhaps games like that could even be a way out for people that are suffering from game compulsion
Well kinda?
I mean that'd be the equivelant of telling someone that their gambling addiction was fine because we can set up a life-style where pay bonuses were random. Sure it'd probably help them not have to gamble as much because gambling is more present in their lives but it doesn't actually solve the underlying issue at all.
There's some truth to what you say here. Obviously this is an important issue for you guys, so I'd encourage you to go deeper. I remember from the last episode that you did that you don't think game addiction is really addiction (you try to rebrand it compulsion). This is not well supported by addiction theory, and in trying to rebrand it, I think you're losing out on all the insights that have been made into addiction and its treatment over the past decades.
There is no one perfect theory of addiction yet - theory and science continue to evolve, as is their nature - but I'd seriously encourage you to read "In the realm of hungry ghosts" by Gabor Mate if you want to really get at the heart of the hunger your touch upon in this episode. Mate is a doctor working with street people in Vancouver, but he himself suffers from his own compulsions, and I think reading that book would be the next logical step for you guys as you explore the roots of gaming addiction.
If "Agency" is what makes you have hope or a feeling of possible change then when you attain that power of change you should feel hope? Which is what happens by anecdotal evidence given below.
However what happens when you have reached your potential? It is something few people get to experience in life. So what happens then? The only way to know is to interview those who have reached the maximum they wanted in their life.
You look to someone like Tom Brady who has achieved something not once but many times. Shouldn't he feel this happiness, this hope? Apparently he doesn't... In an interview on 60 minutes fresh after his 3rd Superbowl win he was despondent and thought about how he makes more money than he ever thought he could, and he has achieved something few have ever been able to, yet all he can think about how he feels there is something greater out there. You are back to square one again.
We have a puzzle piece shaped hole in our heart, and everyone is looking for that puzzle piece to fill it. We try different shaped ones that come close, but they always leave room for more. Everyone has their own piece that they think works "best" for them, but in the end it never ultimately satisfies. We resign ourselves to never being able to find our specific piece.
I didn't find my puzzle piece, but Jesus did fill the hole for me, and I now have a hope that won't disappoint.
This is a wonderful episode. It really touches on something at the core of many people's experience, including my own.
That need for purpose is very real, and very often left completely unmet. In our society just acknowledging that takes a great deal of courage and insight. Thank you so much. The comments already show how valuable this conversation is.
Still, I personally could never get by with a purpose based on "we are the ones who create worth" or "we are the ones who decide why we matter."
I couldn't shake the knowledge that, as a sack of carbon, I was not qualified to create worth.
If some people said I didn't matter, what greater authority did some other people have to tell that me I did?
If *I* felt like I didn't matter, what greater authority would you or anyone have to tell me I should feel differently?
It's just one person's opinion against another. Who's to say what really matters in the end...maybe nothing.
I know this is not everyone's experience - I can only speak for myself and mean no disrespect to anyone. However, for me, until God told me I mattered I was never sure.
>"I didn't find my puzzle piece, but Jesus did fill the hole for me, and I now have a hope that won't disappoint."
>"However, for me, until God told me I mattered I was never sure. "
I'm not here to debate religion with these people; if you've got those beliefs and don't try to force them on others, I'm content to leave you to them. But I want to respond as a current atheist and former devout Catholic.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic: I was the smart kid who got picked on and growing up, Christianity filled that hole for me, telling me things I needed to hear; the stone which the builders rejected and all that. What changed was that when I hit my mid-teens, I started to be challenged by different ideas of self esteem and how a virtuous person should live, as a person who makes their own purpose, and when they came to a head against my religious beliefs, I realized that the values being promoted in the Bible were not what I really wanted to base my life on.
To quote Aristotle (by way of Civilization IV), ""I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law." (Abandoning religion does not mean abandoning morals!) I will say this: it is a LOT HARDER to go it alone, and I still struggle sometimes (and still get lost in games sometimes, because life can't always be fun or fair or forgiving). It means knowing yourself intimately, even the parts of yourself you're not proud of. It means accepting ultimate responsibility for things in the realm of your self control, and realizing that you CAN control yourself. But it's possible.
"I decided long ago / never to walk in anyone's shadow. / If I fail or if I succeed, / at least I'll have lived as I believe."
God that episode spoke volumes to me. I don't really consider myself a game addict, but I know that feeling of trying hard to achieve something that garners no return in the real world. That's probably one of my favorite reasons for playing games to feel a sense of accomplishment. That what I did did mean something at least to me, unlike the way reality feels
This is a good episode. It describes that feeling of finding meaning in games, and feeling isolated from the rest of the world, very well: something I definitely felt myself when I was younger. I'll say from experience that it just takes time, some loving friends, and some quiet time to find the meaning behind our lives, and thus to be able to play games the right way.
Like some others here, though, I had some problems with the solution suggested at the end of this video. I don't think we can make our own meaning: then it would be an illusion, just like the game worlds or the feeling of powerlessness. I actually wrote out a much longer response, that didn't fit here, so if you want to, you can read it here: http://pointfivepluspi.blogspot.com/2013/07/finding-meaning-in-games.html
"I come in to work. Day. After day. After day. I walk by seventeen cubicles on the way to my desk, and in each one is the same man on the same swivel chair entering the same data into the same computer with the same flowerpot on his desk! I haven't become a part of this company, I've been SUBSUMED by it. There's no point! I could vanish off the face of the Earth, and no one would care! I'm not IMPORTANT. Nothing I do MATTERS, how could it!? I feel like any second I'm going to turn around and the rest of the world is going to have turned into CUBICLES! I-I-I feel like I'm going to have a psychotic break. If I haven't already! So many numbers pass by my face and none of them mean a thing!"
A bit of words inspired by the first part of this video.
Excellent work, far above what I expected, even for you guys. I'm a happily surprised you shied away from the safe path of looking only at the scientifically calculable elements of compulsory habits. What you did here was much more meaningful, and by extent, much more interesting. Thanks EC.
Life might welcome you back, but do you welcome life back?
I don't think one can cure gaming compulsion/addiction, it has to be replaced. It does get replaced, and sometimes it gets replaced by less than productive things. I replaced my compulsion by simply going "I've spent hundreds of hours on this, when I could have been spending hundreds of hours on something that I care about." It's easy to loose sight of one's dreams in this world, there's so many easy distractions and there's so much mundane things you *have* to do day in and day out.
What replaced my gaming compulsion in the end? Old things: My hunger for knowledge and urge to create things. Things that society finds useless unless it's for filling in a cog; things that society wanted me to abandon.
I'm just glad there are gamers who recognize this IS a phenomenon. Too often, I've seen people - even heads of major gaming organizations, like the ECA - outright DENY that this even exists, and see any attempt to discuss such an attack on gaming.
[PATV] Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - Extra Credits Season 6, Ep. 20: Game Compulsion (Part 3)
Posts
Thank you.
Come at me, real life.
In real life, it seems like people will wander around miserable with no grasp of why, recoiling from any helping hand; even when you find the right solution for a person and they are willing to accept it, there are always fat vultures waiting to snatch up that life line.
The reality is, not so much. It has nothing to do with being "lost" in society. I think it has to do with engagement.
The truth is that games are just something you can spend time doing. And because you can spend an enormous amount of time on games, you can siphon away huge amounts of your time.
It is worth noting that the worst cases of game addiction come when you combine that with the skinner box techniques of MMOs. Sure, people get addicted to other sorts of games, but MMOs are particularly bad about it - and most of the other types of games that people get addicted to give rewards at a pretty high rate as well. People don't get addicted to "normal" games that much - it is mostly games that involve other people, multiplayer or MMO, that do it.
The idea that it has anything to do with society is feel-good nonsense to make yourself feel more significant, that the compulsion matters in some real way.
It doesn't.
You're right that the compulsion doesn't "matter" in a real way. Compulsion is just that - a thing that pushes people into specific circumstances beyond a person's ability to choose otherwise. It's true that undeniable compulsion is rarely actually experienced, but the *feeling* of being out of control is something incredibly common. The idea that society (which totally has its shit together, right?) doesn't always nurture or reward us as individuals is, so far as any reasonable, reality-based perspective could gather, true.
You mentioned that MMOs are the most addictive type of game for two reasons - 1) Levels of engagement and 2) Skinner box techniques. But this begs a question: Why are these people so disengaged with their own lives that they would have to escape into a fantasy? I think the EC crew did a good job discussing possible reasons without being strictly dogmatic.
Society is a collection of individuals in interaction, nothing more. If an individual within society feels left out, under-appreciated, or helpless, a story-telling medium which focuses almost strictly on feelings of empowerment (barring horror games, of course) could become quite a treacherous path to walk.
Give the video a second look, and instead of focusing on the social ideology, try to focus on the hypothetical of the individual within such a construct. Attempt an educational or empathic stance, and you may gather something more from the discussion.
(Huh, this thing doesn't like spaces. Oh well...)
Engagement is a good term to describe the mechanism by which game compulsion works. That's why games are more compelling than books, comics, pottery, whatever.
However, I don't believe you're right in calling it the cause of game compulsion. I mean, people get the same level of other needs-defying complusive devotion to collecting porcelain dogs or rearranging furniture. It's not that there's something engaging to do, it's that there's something disappointing, unrewarding or frustrating that you don't want to do.
Does it have something to do with society? Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Depends on what the person's problem is.
But claiming that compulsion doesn't matter in a real way is, well, kind of a dick move. If there's anything that hinders you meeting your needs, hinders functioning, then yes that is a real problem that matters in a real way.
Don't mean to come off as harsh, and I'm curious as to what contact have you had with game compulsion. Where are you coming from?
That post was completely tautological. Try again please
So this is what it's like to be understood.
I think this is also one of the root causes why people are susceptible to religious indoctrination or political exploitation and trickery.
Even as adults, we tend to behave like children in some ways - we fell lost, and expect to be told what our purpose is, and to be guided by some abstract, benevolent parent figure. Except there is no such a thing.
We need to wake up, and *find* our own purpose, pursue our own goals and interest. We need to be willing to work around obstacles, to rise again no matter how many times we fall.
We cannot expect stability as something given - we must fight to create it. We need to accept change as a fact of life, and learn how to bend with the wind.
We need make our inner child grow up, even if it doesn't want to.
That, I think, is the message of this brilliant episode.
This episode pretty much covers everything I've been going through for at least the last couple of years. The trick is, I don't think your solution of creating your own worth works at all.
The reason why games are so powerful is because I don't think we can be self-sufficient in this area. We've got to have some form of positive feedback, and games provide this all the time. The only way out is to connect with other people. You've got to go out there and expose yourself to the world and find a place where what you do does matter. Otherwise life will wear you down since you don't have that support network and you will sink into the games for respite.
It's hard, but I think we can do it.
I mean look at all the new commenters already. Great work fellas.
P.S. you tag names with spaces by using quotes: @enter name here.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
As a Healer however, I felt like it was my heals, my abilities, and all the stuff I was doing that was a make or break point for whether my ragtag group of friends could take down a boss or not. In fact, it probably WAS. But, it was more than just feeling "needed", I almost felt an obligation to be there. Like it was my job/purpose. It felt like 9 other peoples fun night depended on my presence, like I was the host at a party, and if I wasn't there to throw the party then I was letting people down and wasting their weekend nights. Eventually the group split apart, people got bored or burnt out or whatever, and once there was no longer a group of people I enjoyed playing with I lost my will to continue playing.
So, yeah, it was hard to tell if I was ever actually addicted in that... y'know, "Can't stop grinding, gotta be the best" sort of way. I think it was just that sense of purpose and having a sense of pride in my work/abilities, but then even to take it to the next level, that without me the group wouldn't progress, people would get frustrated, they'd have a bad time, etc.
Or you know, that MMO's cater to social needs along with the needs other games meet and have a larger amount of content to allow addictive behaviours to grow more easily because people don't have to switch games.
Saying things like 'people don't get addicted to 'normal' games' when that clearly isn't the case or putting forwards your interpretation with words like 'the reality is' or 'the truth' doesn't help the discussion at all.
Plus if you're willing to say 'it is mostly games that involve other people, multiplayer or MMO, that do it.' how can you then go on to dismiss the idea that it could well be a matter of social needs not being met as opposed to simply a skinner box?
This one really hit the nail on the head for me, and now I'm just sitting here reflecting on a lot of the past choices I've made in my life, not just games, because a lot of the points you brought up can be applied to, well, all things in life.
It makes me feel incredibly lucky to have a family and a significant other of 10 years who are both trying to (and succeeding in) help me stay reengaged without demonizing the hobby I find myself passionate about. James sharing he experience previously hit a note but it never hit quite as solidly as this one did.
...Or perhaps I wasn't quite as far out of self-denial as I am now.
Well kinda?
I mean that'd be the equivelant of telling someone that their gambling addiction was fine because we can set up a life-style where pay bonuses were random. Sure it'd probably help them not have to gamble as much because gambling is more present in their lives but it doesn't actually solve the underlying issue at all.
There is no one perfect theory of addiction yet - theory and science continue to evolve, as is their nature - but I'd seriously encourage you to read "In the realm of hungry ghosts" by Gabor Mate if you want to really get at the heart of the hunger your touch upon in this episode. Mate is a doctor working with street people in Vancouver, but he himself suffers from his own compulsions, and I think reading that book would be the next logical step for you guys as you explore the roots of gaming addiction.
Then help them down the next steps.
If "Agency" is what makes you have hope or a feeling of possible change then when you attain that power of change you should feel hope? Which is what happens by anecdotal evidence given below.
However what happens when you have reached your potential? It is something few people get to experience in life. So what happens then? The only way to know is to interview those who have reached the maximum they wanted in their life.
You look to someone like Tom Brady who has achieved something not once but many times. Shouldn't he feel this happiness, this hope? Apparently he doesn't... In an interview on 60 minutes fresh after his 3rd Superbowl win he was despondent and thought about how he makes more money than he ever thought he could, and he has achieved something few have ever been able to, yet all he can think about how he feels there is something greater out there. You are back to square one again.
We have a puzzle piece shaped hole in our heart, and everyone is looking for that puzzle piece to fill it. We try different shaped ones that come close, but they always leave room for more. Everyone has their own piece that they think works "best" for them, but in the end it never ultimately satisfies. We resign ourselves to never being able to find our specific piece.
I didn't find my puzzle piece, but Jesus did fill the hole for me, and I now have a hope that won't disappoint.
That need for purpose is very real, and very often left completely unmet. In our society just acknowledging that takes a great deal of courage and insight. Thank you so much. The comments already show how valuable this conversation is.
Still, I personally could never get by with a purpose based on "we are the ones who create worth" or "we are the ones who decide why we matter."
I couldn't shake the knowledge that, as a sack of carbon, I was not qualified to create worth.
If some people said I didn't matter, what greater authority did some other people have to tell that me I did?
If *I* felt like I didn't matter, what greater authority would you or anyone have to tell me I should feel differently?
It's just one person's opinion against another. Who's to say what really matters in the end...maybe nothing.
I know this is not everyone's experience - I can only speak for myself and mean no disrespect to anyone. However, for me, until God told me I mattered I was never sure.
I guess I suffer from game addiction although internet addiction would be more accurate, but not for any of the reasons you mentioned.
>"However, for me, until God told me I mattered I was never sure. "
I'm not here to debate religion with these people; if you've got those beliefs and don't try to force them on others, I'm content to leave you to them. But I want to respond as a current atheist and former devout Catholic.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic: I was the smart kid who got picked on and growing up, Christianity filled that hole for me, telling me things I needed to hear; the stone which the builders rejected and all that. What changed was that when I hit my mid-teens, I started to be challenged by different ideas of self esteem and how a virtuous person should live, as a person who makes their own purpose, and when they came to a head against my religious beliefs, I realized that the values being promoted in the Bible were not what I really wanted to base my life on.
To quote Aristotle (by way of Civilization IV), ""I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law." (Abandoning religion does not mean abandoning morals!) I will say this: it is a LOT HARDER to go it alone, and I still struggle sometimes (and still get lost in games sometimes, because life can't always be fun or fair or forgiving). It means knowing yourself intimately, even the parts of yourself you're not proud of. It means accepting ultimate responsibility for things in the realm of your self control, and realizing that you CAN control yourself. But it's possible.
"I decided long ago / never to walk in anyone's shadow. / If I fail or if I succeed, / at least I'll have lived as I believe."
Like some others here, though, I had some problems with the solution suggested at the end of this video. I don't think we can make our own meaning: then it would be an illusion, just like the game worlds or the feeling of powerlessness. I actually wrote out a much longer response, that didn't fit here, so if you want to, you can read it here: http://pointfivepluspi.blogspot.com/2013/07/finding-meaning-in-games.html
Thanks for the good video, EC, keep it up!
Excellent blog post. Very well thought out and reasoned, and much more eloquent than I am capable of writing!
A bit of words inspired by the first part of this video.
I don't think one can cure gaming compulsion/addiction, it has to be replaced. It does get replaced, and sometimes it gets replaced by less than productive things. I replaced my compulsion by simply going "I've spent hundreds of hours on this, when I could have been spending hundreds of hours on something that I care about." It's easy to loose sight of one's dreams in this world, there's so many easy distractions and there's so much mundane things you *have* to do day in and day out.
What replaced my gaming compulsion in the end? Old things: My hunger for knowledge and urge to create things. Things that society finds useless unless it's for filling in a cog; things that society wanted me to abandon.
Yeah. Right on target.
Thank you.