They don't let you do anything you can't do for free.
Except, you know, play the game at all and get in 48 hours before everybody else (even the normal level purchasers).
And that special item that saves you a week of crafting. And that item that makes the stuff you craft better.
The problem with the "it's not a big deal" argument is either that stuff is crap, and they're trying to rip people off, or it's not crap, and they're screwing people who don't drop $100 on the game.
They don't let you do anything you can't do for free.
Except, you know, play the game at all and get in 48 hours before everybody else (even the normal level purchasers).
And that special item that saves you a week of crafting. And that item that makes the stuff you craft better.
The problem with the "it's not a big deal" argument is either that stuff is crap, and they're trying to rip people off, or it's not crap, and they're screwing people who don't drop $100 on the game.
That might be the case, but we don't know that for sure.
We need them to clarify the extent to which crafting will be a thing in Landmark and EQN, if and when you too can earn through the sweat of your brow the crafting improvement items like those bracers, how long it takes to get a Void Vault the long way beyond a nebulous "weeks of work" comment, and how they intend to support, to at least some degree, the wider population of players who don't buy in that they would want to appeal to more so that they will want to buy in.
Gating stuff like this is potentially more stupid then it first appears. But it might also just be a lack of information on their part that can be rectified, and any greed pushed back a bit by people not being impressed with a wrong pay to win answer.
As far as the bracers go, the thing is it only improves your chances with crafting. So to me it just sounds like it makes crafting more efficient, not "better". However, there is the matter of the degree of effect, which they did not detail as far as I saw. If it is too significant then yeah it could be a strike against SOE. It sounds like they are nice to have, but far from necessary, at least from the descriptions.
I'm considering buying the middle tier thing, mainly for access to the early testing phase. I'm not particularly bothered about the crafting items or even the cosmetic items, although the cosmetic items could be fun. Not certain yet whether it justifies the price tag for me just to get early access.
Can anyone name a mainstream MMO that released packages similar to the above which included items that ultimately destroyed the entire balance of the game, because I'm coming up blank.
I can almost guarantee you that these items are going to be a useful boost to people for the first couple weeks, then end up "costing" people bank space because they've gotten to the point where they're obsolete, but people are hesitant to trash them because they cost real money.
This is a molehill, not a mountain.
+4
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
In fact, if you try to write a list of MMOs that offered similar bonus items that then caused the fans to declare that the sky is falling before they actually saw the item in game you'd spend all day on it. :P
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Can anyone name a mainstream MMO that released packages similar to the above which included items that ultimately destroyed the entire balance of the game, because I'm coming up blank.
I ended up super happy with the Collector's Edition of SWTOR, because they eventually made that mount scale so I never have to buy another one again.
SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
The bracer and vault sound like something that will give you an edge in the beginning and then quickly become obsolete as people become settled and start crafting. Evokes memories of the Hero's Band in Guild Wars 2, actually.
I would really like to try this out but these packs are not competitively priced. Unless they are intentionally inflating the price to get more dedicated folks testing the game it's completely out of line with the 'pay early, play early' scheme. I'd appreciate a discount just like in the case of Minecraft or Arma 3 for example. I'll have to wait for closed or open beta I guess.
I've bought the ultimate or legendary or amazing or whatever editions of games. There were times when I thought "Man having this will be so awsome it'll make x thing so much easier"
Thse items always get replaced because ultimately they always put something better in the game than a gimme item. That crafting bacer? They'll be a better one out there to find and if there isn't there'll be one with a different crafting stat like speed or something that people want more.
Seidkona on
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
They don't let you do anything you can't do for free.
Except, you know, play the game at all and get in 48 hours before everybody else (even the normal level purchasers).
And that special item that saves you a week of crafting. And that item that makes the stuff you craft better.
The problem with the "it's not a big deal" argument is either that stuff is crap, and they're trying to rip people off, or it's not crap, and they're screwing people who don't drop $100 on the game.
And again, this is just paying for access for an Alpha/Beta ... NOT the live game. Most people never even see a Beta until it hits open beta, let alone an Alpha of all things. I think its an "everyone wins" situation. They need revenue to keep working and pushing this F2P game out the door. This money would likely come from the cash shop when it launches but thats a long way out so they do this instead. And people buy it, even the 100 dollar one (just look at their twitter responses. That's almost all anyone who posted talks about).
And the people who don't pay money? Well duh ... they wait. Like we all normally would have anyway. So I think early access to an alpha/beta doesn't even get to count. We can talk about the items, sure, but a part of me thinks VERY similar ones will hit the cash shop when the game goes live anyway (the crafting items anyway. I imagine the outfits will be unique for the buyers which, again, is fine).
We will survive this.
... well @reverse won't apparently but ... that's natural selection.
Landmark livestream now at twitch.tv/everquestnext. They've showing some in game capabilities of Landmark. I'm actually pretty impressed, guess I was thinking too much of blocky Minecraft.
Whaqt I would like to know is if they plan to do a buy in on the game proper as well (probably). I'm much more likely to pay for Beta access and some shiny bits for the actual game as opposed to Landmark because Landmark itself is too much of an unknown for that.
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
I don't know what it is, but I'm just not as excited about landmark as I am about Next. Don't get me wrong, I hope some seriously artistic people fall in love with the game so SOE has some good stuff to put into Next, I just don't have the same zeal about playing it myself though.
See, I find myself really interested in Landmark. The idea of co-op Minecraft pushes all the right buttons. I'm just annoyed that if I want the "good" spots, I'd have to shell out $100 for the privilege of getting there in the first wave.
What if the game was a kickstarter project and suddenly these rewards and early access are for certain pledge tiers? Does it change your thinking about the rewards? Just curious, because it does for me. On one hand, someone might be getting an item which a small in-game bonus, while on the other hand, the game might not even launch at all if they aren't offering these things.
I should probably mention that I only see Landmark as their dev-environment tool they're opening up and letting people play house with.
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
I don't know what it is, but I'm just not as excited about landmark as I am about Next. Don't get me wrong, I hope some seriously artistic people fall in love with the game so SOE has some good stuff to put into Next, I just don't have the same zeal about playing it myself though.
Same here, but EQN is an actual game whereas Landmark is Arts & Crafts. I too hope people way more talented than me fall in love with it 'cause that will make everything all the more better for all of us.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
What if the game was a kickstarter project and suddenly these rewards and early access are for certain pledge tiers? Does it change your thinking about the rewards? Just curious, because it does for me. On one hand, someone might be getting an item which a small in-game bonus, while on the other hand, the game might not even launch at all if they aren't offering these things.
And that's just the thing- EQN and Landmark will launch come hell or high water, this isn't a small indie development team struggling to make ends meet we're talking about.
Might as well say "what if you thought of them as charity contributions for orphans, would it make a difference?". Yes, it would, because it's a completely different situation.
I don't know what it is, but I'm just not as excited about landmark as I am about Next. Don't get me wrong, I hope some seriously artistic people fall in love with the game so SOE has some good stuff to put into Next, I just don't have the same zeal about playing it myself though.
Same here, but EQN is an actual game whereas Landmark is Arts & Crafts. I too hope people way more talented than me fall in love with it 'cause that will make everything all the more better for all of us.
I'm creative, artistic, love Minecraft, and am pursuing a profession in game design.
Maybe I'll like it. Not sure about paying for it yet but it seems right up my alley.
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited November 2013
Another thing to keep in mind about the whole "bonuses" thing is that Landmark is not competitive (well, no more so then 'Best Lawn' competitions).
There is no market to corner, no things to sell, it is basically Minecraft w/o monsters. You just build things, for your own amusement.
Granted, yes the best stuff does have a shot of being put in the game or be put up for sale and you can stand to make some cash of it, but your ability to do that probably won't be hampered by other people.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
What if the game was a kickstarter project and suddenly these rewards and early access are for certain pledge tiers? Does it change your thinking about the rewards? Just curious, because it does for me. On one hand, someone might be getting an item which a small in-game bonus, while on the other hand, the game might not even launch at all if they aren't offering these things.
And that's just the thing- EQN and Landmark will launch come hell or high water, this isn't a small indie development team struggling to make ends meet we're talking about.
Might as well say "what if you thought of them as charity contributions for orphans, would it make a difference?". Yes, it would, because it's a completely different situation.
It kinda does at the moment for internal divisions and teams at SOE; they just recently went under layoffs(rumor put the total at ~90 people) on the MMO staff(from all of SOE's MMO lineup). http://eq2wire.com/2013/08/28/breaking-soe-layoffs/
The supposed reason is due to budget concerns, which means for the people actually creating EQN and Landmark, getting some revenue going now helps the team making it by giving them some "protection" from a suit higher up from downsizing the team more because numbers aren't adding up.
What if the game was a kickstarter project and suddenly these rewards and early access are for certain pledge tiers? Does it change your thinking about the rewards? Just curious, because it does for me. On one hand, someone might be getting an item which a small in-game bonus, while on the other hand, the game might not even launch at all if they aren't offering these things.
And that's just the thing- EQN and Landmark will launch come hell or high water, this isn't a small indie development team struggling to make ends meet we're talking about.
Might as well say "what if you thought of them as charity contributions for orphans, would it make a difference?". Yes, it would, because it's a completely different situation.
It's not completely different though, at least IMO. (I completely agree that they will launch regardless) To elaborate - Sony will gain valuable feedback and insight from this announcement/future beta(s), and they'll also have some financial numbers to bring back to the people behind the curtain. If these things don't hold up to whatever standard they've created, we won't be seeing potential 'tier rewards' they're trying to implement, at least not at launch. Again, IMO, this will directly influence the content the game launches with - classes, races, content, polish on these things and more, etc.
As for the bonuses from the pledges, I'm not too worried after having watched the video of the livestream. They stated that the items you get from the pledges while good(they're explicitly in the "highest tier", think minecraft diamond tools), they're also supposedly the worst in that tier. In short, they're boosts meant to get the alpha/beta testers working on the meat of the game instead having to work through the full progression of tools, and once everyone is deep into the game, they'll have access to similar or better tools.
It's not unlike other MMOs that during testing, give players entry level raid gear so they can actually test raids, versus making them "earn it". The only big difference is in Landmark, they'll keep it after beta, which isn't a big deal since it's MMO minecraft.
See, I find myself really interested in Landmark. The idea of co-op Minecraft pushes all the right buttons. I'm just annoyed that if I want the "good" spots, I'd have to shell out $100 for the privilege of getting there in the first wave.
Well, presumably you could just keep running an hour into the middle of bumfuck nowhere. And I think you can also do some terraforming. The continents are supposed to be really large.
As for MMO layoffs: I doubt they would do layoffs from EQN. Not with how promising it looks, and all the fan support atm. SOE runs quite a lot of MMOs.
I'm not sure I'm that excited about EQN yet. There just isn't enough known about it.
We know a lot of neat stuff! It'll have lots of classes with swappable abilities and destructible terrain, mass scale dynamic AI for NPCs and server-wide cooperative tasks that will both make servers very different from eachother over time, and lots and lots of player-made stuff (weapons, props, armor, environments, etc.)
I'm gonna make a living making things for this and Planetside 2. It's pretty amazing that I can do that.
A lot of games have promised similar things, and ended up cutting those things in favor of: "Being able to release a game".
I've started reading every MMO pitch in the voice of Duffman. Because...Duffman says a lot of things.
+1
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
As for finding a choice locale in Landmark they've said there will be multiple version of the world and players are free to teleport between them at their leisure. So I imagine getting a spot you like wouldn't be too hard.
In EQN's case they've shown gameplay videos of the destructible terrain at work, but to what scale it truly works on is still a point of cautious optimism for me.
The AI on the other hand (as I talk about often) is something I'm not too worried about. SOE isn't designing it or building it, the dynamic AI system they're using already exists and you yourself can go out and buy it. It is fantastically flexible and almost Fisher Price easy to use (the bright and cheerful colors of the menus definitely make it seem Fisher Price :P). Seriously, even without any programming experience your average person can probably put something functional together within not too much time at all. One video had dudes set up a town full of NPCs, complete with a quest chain, in little under and hour. It was still bare bones and nothing super fancy, but the ease and speed at which it was accomplished was the real selling point.
EQN is probably the first MMO in a long time I am really excited for and at the same time fearful of. They can make it work. All the tech is there, the individual systems have been done in one game or another before, all SOE needs to do is bring all those things under one roof (aka: The Blizzard Method).
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
EQN is probably the first MMO in a long time I am really excited for and at the same time fearful of. They can make it work. All the tech is there, the individual systems have been done in one game or another before, all SOE needs to do is bring all those things under one roof (aka: The Blizzard Method).
I'm already looking forward to the much better game that Blizzard is going to make by taking all of EQN's ideas and refining them into a way more polished experience. Like WoW was to EverQuest.
EQN is probably the first MMO in a long time I am really excited for and at the same time fearful of. They can make it work. All the tech is there, the individual systems have been done in one game or another before, all SOE needs to do is bring all those things under one roof (aka: The Blizzard Method).
I'm already looking forward to the much better game that Blizzard is going to make by taking all of EQN's ideas and refining them into a way more polished experience. Like WoW was to EverQuest.
Hm. For as good as WoW was, EQ had more heart. I'd rather play a sandbox/world sim than a theme park.
Well, when WoW first came out, it was not nearly as theme parky as it is now. And EQ wasn't really that sandboxy so much as it was just kinda open and a little directionless. EQ still had levels, gear, and zone progression, gated raid progression, all that stuff. It was all just obfuscated behind inaccessible design (maybe partly on purpose, maybe partly to its credit).
I started playing MMOs with the original EQ beta, and no game is going to ever be able to recreate what that game did for me, but going through that evolution to WoW back then was mind blowing. Anyway, I agree with you and I am very much ready for a sandbox MMO. Which is why when Blizzard rips off EQN, which looks to be way more of a sandbox than EQ ever was, we'll get an awesome polished sandbox MMO!
Also note that I'm being more than a little facetious about looking forward to games inspired by a game that doesn't exist yet. Although I do really think a successful EQN would do the genre a big favor by providing an MMO model to emulate other than WoW.
I am interested in Landmark because I have an addiction to stocking up on raw resources. Minerals, plants and other stuff, I just gather and put into things! Really guys, I am concerned.
P.S. @Jdarksun I will gather resources and you can convert it into pretty things. I am considering spending the 50$ because I want the tech armor. We'll see how long that desire lasts as it gets closer.
Anyway, I agree with you and I am very much ready for a sandbox MMO.
Same! I am super looking forward to it. Not sure if the indy scene is going to get there first, or if it'll be EQN, or maybe Blizzard, but somebody's eventually going to bring a worldsim that isn't butts!
P.S. @Jdarksun I will gather resources and you can convert it into pretty things. I am considering spending the 50$ because I want the tech armor. We'll see how long that desire lasts as it gets closer.
We can be mining buddies! I also love building stuff, but I'm not sure how pretty it's going to be. Maybe eventually. But first thing, I'll probably build a massive monument to Cazic-Thule or Rallos Zek.
Anyway, I agree with you and I am very much ready for a sandbox MMO.
Same! I am super looking forward to it. Not sure if the indy scene is going to get there first, or if it'll be EQN, or maybe Blizzard, but somebody's eventually going to bring a worldsim that isn't butts!
P.S. @Jdarksun I will gather resources and you can convert it into pretty things. I am considering spending the 50$ because I want the tech armor. We'll see how long that desire lasts as it gets closer.
We can be mining buddies! I also love building stuff, but I'm not sure how pretty it's going to be. Maybe eventually. But first thing, I'll probably build a massive monument to Cazic-Thule or Rallos Zek.
Posts
And that special item that saves you a week of crafting. And that item that makes the stuff you craft better.
The problem with the "it's not a big deal" argument is either that stuff is crap, and they're trying to rip people off, or it's not crap, and they're screwing people who don't drop $100 on the game.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
That might be the case, but we don't know that for sure.
We need them to clarify the extent to which crafting will be a thing in Landmark and EQN, if and when you too can earn through the sweat of your brow the crafting improvement items like those bracers, how long it takes to get a Void Vault the long way beyond a nebulous "weeks of work" comment, and how they intend to support, to at least some degree, the wider population of players who don't buy in that they would want to appeal to more so that they will want to buy in.
Gating stuff like this is potentially more stupid then it first appears. But it might also just be a lack of information on their part that can be rectified, and any greed pushed back a bit by people not being impressed with a wrong pay to win answer.
I'm considering buying the middle tier thing, mainly for access to the early testing phase. I'm not particularly bothered about the crafting items or even the cosmetic items, although the cosmetic items could be fun. Not certain yet whether it justifies the price tag for me just to get early access.
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
I can almost guarantee you that these items are going to be a useful boost to people for the first couple weeks, then end up "costing" people bank space because they've gotten to the point where they're obsolete, but people are hesitant to trash them because they cost real money.
This is a molehill, not a mountain.
Agree'd.
In fact, if you try to write a list of MMOs that offered similar bonus items that then caused the fans to declare that the sky is falling before they actually saw the item in game you'd spend all day on it. :P
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
I would really like to try this out but these packs are not competitively priced. Unless they are intentionally inflating the price to get more dedicated folks testing the game it's completely out of line with the 'pay early, play early' scheme. I'd appreciate a discount just like in the case of Minecraft or Arma 3 for example. I'll have to wait for closed or open beta I guess.
Thse items always get replaced because ultimately they always put something better in the game than a gimme item. That crafting bacer? They'll be a better one out there to find and if there isn't there'll be one with a different crafting stat like speed or something that people want more.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
The in-game items were terrible, of course.
That was the best doorstop I ever bought.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
And again, this is just paying for access for an Alpha/Beta ... NOT the live game. Most people never even see a Beta until it hits open beta, let alone an Alpha of all things. I think its an "everyone wins" situation. They need revenue to keep working and pushing this F2P game out the door. This money would likely come from the cash shop when it launches but thats a long way out so they do this instead. And people buy it, even the 100 dollar one (just look at their twitter responses. That's almost all anyone who posted talks about).
And the people who don't pay money? Well duh ... they wait. Like we all normally would have anyway. So I think early access to an alpha/beta doesn't even get to count. We can talk about the items, sure, but a part of me thinks VERY similar ones will hit the cash shop when the game goes live anyway (the crafting items anyway. I imagine the outfits will be unique for the buyers which, again, is fine).
We will survive this.
... well @reverse won't apparently but ... that's natural selection.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
But I won't pay $50 for it. I'd pay $10-$15 for it.
Especially since the little gimmick items are and will be totally useless. I've come to a point where I refuse to pay for useless crap.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
I should probably mention that I only see Landmark as their dev-environment tool they're opening up and letting people play house with.
Same here, but EQN is an actual game whereas Landmark is Arts & Crafts. I too hope people way more talented than me fall in love with it 'cause that will make everything all the more better for all of us.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Might as well say "what if you thought of them as charity contributions for orphans, would it make a difference?". Yes, it would, because it's a completely different situation.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
I'm creative, artistic, love Minecraft, and am pursuing a profession in game design.
Maybe I'll like it. Not sure about paying for it yet but it seems right up my alley.
There is no market to corner, no things to sell, it is basically Minecraft w/o monsters. You just build things, for your own amusement.
Granted, yes the best stuff does have a shot of being put in the game or be put up for sale and you can stand to make some cash of it, but your ability to do that probably won't be hampered by other people.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
It kinda does at the moment for internal divisions and teams at SOE; they just recently went under layoffs(rumor put the total at ~90 people) on the MMO staff(from all of SOE's MMO lineup). http://eq2wire.com/2013/08/28/breaking-soe-layoffs/
The supposed reason is due to budget concerns, which means for the people actually creating EQN and Landmark, getting some revenue going now helps the team making it by giving them some "protection" from a suit higher up from downsizing the team more because numbers aren't adding up.
It's not completely different though, at least IMO. (I completely agree that they will launch regardless) To elaborate - Sony will gain valuable feedback and insight from this announcement/future beta(s), and they'll also have some financial numbers to bring back to the people behind the curtain. If these things don't hold up to whatever standard they've created, we won't be seeing potential 'tier rewards' they're trying to implement, at least not at launch. Again, IMO, this will directly influence the content the game launches with - classes, races, content, polish on these things and more, etc.
It's not unlike other MMOs that during testing, give players entry level raid gear so they can actually test raids, versus making them "earn it". The only big difference is in Landmark, they'll keep it after beta, which isn't a big deal since it's MMO minecraft.
Well, presumably you could just keep running an hour into the middle of bumfuck nowhere. And I think you can also do some terraforming. The continents are supposed to be really large.
As for MMO layoffs: I doubt they would do layoffs from EQN. Not with how promising it looks, and all the fan support atm. SOE runs quite a lot of MMOs.
We know a lot of neat stuff! It'll have lots of classes with swappable abilities and destructible terrain, mass scale dynamic AI for NPCs and server-wide cooperative tasks that will both make servers very different from eachother over time, and lots and lots of player-made stuff (weapons, props, armor, environments, etc.)
I'm gonna make a living making things for this and Planetside 2. It's pretty amazing that I can do that.
A lot of games have promised similar things, and ended up cutting those things in favor of: "Being able to release a game".
I've started reading every MMO pitch in the voice of Duffman. Because...Duffman says a lot of things.
In EQN's case they've shown gameplay videos of the destructible terrain at work, but to what scale it truly works on is still a point of cautious optimism for me.
The AI on the other hand (as I talk about often) is something I'm not too worried about. SOE isn't designing it or building it, the dynamic AI system they're using already exists and you yourself can go out and buy it. It is fantastically flexible and almost Fisher Price easy to use (the bright and cheerful colors of the menus definitely make it seem Fisher Price :P). Seriously, even without any programming experience your average person can probably put something functional together within not too much time at all. One video had dudes set up a town full of NPCs, complete with a quest chain, in little under and hour. It was still bare bones and nothing super fancy, but the ease and speed at which it was accomplished was the real selling point.
EQN is probably the first MMO in a long time I am really excited for and at the same time fearful of. They can make it work. All the tech is there, the individual systems have been done in one game or another before, all SOE needs to do is bring all those things under one roof (aka: The Blizzard Method).
I'm already looking forward to the much better game that Blizzard is going to make by taking all of EQN's ideas and refining them into a way more polished experience. Like WoW was to EverQuest.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
I started playing MMOs with the original EQ beta, and no game is going to ever be able to recreate what that game did for me, but going through that evolution to WoW back then was mind blowing. Anyway, I agree with you and I am very much ready for a sandbox MMO. Which is why when Blizzard rips off EQN, which looks to be way more of a sandbox than EQ ever was, we'll get an awesome polished sandbox MMO!
Also note that I'm being more than a little facetious about looking forward to games inspired by a game that doesn't exist yet. Although I do really think a successful EQN would do the genre a big favor by providing an MMO model to emulate other than WoW.
P.S. @Jdarksun I will gather resources and you can convert it into pretty things. I am considering spending the 50$ because I want the tech armor. We'll see how long that desire lasts as it gets closer.
Same! I am super looking forward to it. Not sure if the indy scene is going to get there first, or if it'll be EQN, or maybe Blizzard, but somebody's eventually going to bring a worldsim that isn't butts!
We can be mining buddies! I also love building stuff, but I'm not sure how pretty it's going to be. Maybe eventually. But first thing, I'll probably build a massive monument to Cazic-Thule or Rallos Zek.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
My kingdom for UO2.