Speaking of Vayne--would you build Vayne top the same as Vayne ADC marksman?
Also, would said marksman build be BotRK, PD, IE or BoTRK, IE, PD or something else? Obviously beserker greaves as well, and then I would follow with something defensive and LW. But do I build all the attack speed first or what?
I'm playing a million bot games as Vayne right now to get better mechanically (and to escape my losing streak/make my lolking match history less...red), but I should probably make sure I've got the best build.
Josh, I have 20k IP in the bank and haven't been sure what to do with it. If my go-to supports tend to be Janna/Lulu/Leona, how do you think I'll fare with Nami?
Josh, I have 20k IP in the bank and haven't been sure what to do with it. If my go-to supports tend to be Janna/Lulu/Leona, how do you think I'll fare with Nami?
Nami kinda plays like sona-ish.
Yeah, Nami is now my backup choice for support behind Sona since nobody likes the bull anymore.
Vayne top is typically going to be the same as Vayne ADC. BotRK->Zeal(PD or Shiv are both fine)->IE. You typically want at least 3 early points in W even if you're maxing Q with this build. It's heavier on attack speed so you're taking advantage of the W and cutlass/BotRK for your dueling power. Just remember that there are a lot of top laners that aren't going to be super fun to lane against for Vayne. Some you can smash, but some you are going to want none of.
Josh, I have 20k IP in the bank and haven't been sure what to do with it. If my go-to supports tend to be Janna/Lulu/Leona, how do you think I'll fare with Nami?
I predict you will love her, if you like those 3 supports. She's very multi-tool like Lulu. Quick rundown of how her skills work for me:
Q: It's a 1.5s stun that's really not hard to land and can hit both people if they get too close to one another foolishly.
W: Amazing ability. 725 range, and if they're near each other you can W the AD for dmg, bounce the heal back to you, then the dmg bounces back to the enemy support. Or, W yourself for a heal and bounce it to one enemy then back to your AD for heal.
E: 1 point wonder IMO because of the CDR/dmg of Q and increased dmg/heal on W are better to level, but it's super potent early levels. 25 extra dmg on 3 autos is huge in a first 3 levels trade or all in. Also, whoever has this and is auto attacking slows who they attack, so you can use it on yourself, shoot the support/ad to slow them, then land can't miss Qs. She has 550 AA range so that's nice.
R: It's super slow moving, but does knock up and apply a nice big slow, so this ability is great for 2v2 all ins, disengaging an enemy jungler if needed, or setting up your own jungler.
Your spells also give a 40 ms boost to allies for 1.5 seconds which is great for escaping ganks and kiting in team fights. Between her ult, your late game maxed E applying a 35% slow on hit, your ult 70% slow, and the stun from your Q you're just an amazing peel for your ADC.
Her only real downside is not a lot of personal damage, but that goes for most supports, and IMO the only more potent support than her right now is Thresh, just because that dude has all the CC, plus great damage, plus lantern, but he's almost always banned.
I think they're technically nerfing her in the next patch, her stun's lasting longer than Riot wants. They're making sure it only lasts 1.5 seconds, at the moment it can last up to 2.
I don't think Nami will need nerfed because they gave her shit for AP ratios and her E basically only exists to set up Qs and help your AD kite in team fights. Thresh had to be nerfed because the bonus auto dmg was dumb to have on his Q because he wanted to max Q for CDR anyway. So they moved it and now are nerfing his early game tankiness.
Thresh and Nami are both amazing designs for supports, but the difference is they wisely made sure Nami was only going to be good as a support. Thresh just got the super unique game changer that is his lantern, which is what makes him the superior pick right now.
+1
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eeSanGI slice like a goddamn hammer.Registered Userregular
edited July 2013
2 of my Top 3 played are Lulu and Zyra. I'm probably not going to play Lulu in Ranked again for awhile.
My priority for Support picks is probably Thresh > Blitz > Zyra > Sona = Fiddle.
Because I don't own Nami. Because I refunded her.
eeSanG on
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
1. The Carry: Examples include Caitlyn, Ezreal, Draven and Vayne.
@Burnage The newly renamed Markspeople's Union would like to note the "Meet the Team" section should be updated to reflect its new perspective on its members' role.
I've rewritten that whole section now to match Riot's brave new world of role descriptions.
The big pro thing is maxing e first on any harass based adc. I've been liking it in certain match ups
I can respect maxing E, but you get no CDR out of increasing the level, so I'm not sure if I believe maxing it is really all that great. After MR it's not THAT much dmg, but I wouldn't hold it against somebody for making the choice.
I think maxing Q is prob the best all around because of the CDR you get and don't get on other skills, but I actually max W in almost every matchup, because i'm getting pretty good at positioning where I can heal myself and hit both enemies with it and the dmg is guaranteed, which Q is not if they dodge it.
the E dmg in lane is pretty darn crazy. It doesn't seem like it on paper, but i've noticed that a Level 6 all in with max level E does a ton more damage than W. Also your mana costs aren't as crazy since E doesn't cost nearly as much.
Maxing Q first is a big no-no because you lose out on so much utility. If you miss a bubble, you have nothing if the enemy team capitalizes on the CD, and if you hit the bubble, you have no real power to follow up on if your ADC isn't an all in damage machine like Quinn/Draven/Vayne.
Maxing W is great for harass, but you run out of mana really fast, and it does deal less damage than E.
League of Legends: Sorakanmyworld
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
Man I just got done with a ranked game that was one of those that looks like such a lost cause early. We had top Nidalee who lost marginally(gave up 2 kills, was pushed to inner turret) to Kennen. We had TF mid against Jayce and while the TF was good and ended up helping me carry, he lost lane because Jayce is Jayce. They had Rengar jungle versus my Zac, and they had bot lane duo Draven/Darius versus Cait/Taric for us.
Right off the bat I could tell the Cait was not good, like at all. Bad CS, and she kept getting hooked by Darius, which should never ever happen if he doesn't flash on you with Cait. Darius got fed like 4 kills pretty early, and I just decided I wasn't having any of that. I just camped bot lane and got fed myself, TF ulted around getting fed, and what was kind of a hard game turned into a wave of ownage by us that led to us getting 2 inhibs then just winning.
I ended up 7/2/10 Zac. It really amazes me how much dmg he does with full tank. I had golem, ninja tabi, spirit visage, and sunfire cape and I could probably have 1v1ed their ADC. I'd just jump in and create so much havoc and do so much damage it was easy clean up.
Nami seems strong but God help me, I cannot land those bubbles to save my life. I don't know what it is as I'm usually OK at landing skillshots.
I find her Q very easy to land, if only because in lane nobody wants to run right at you unless they're melee, so whoever i'm going to use it on I'll try to E myself or the AD, get them slowed from that, then throw the bubble where if they retreat backward they hit it 100%. You just have to quickly learn the dodging patterns of the laners you're against.
If she really, really wanted to get her all you have to do is Q towards her and then tag her with the ult. If you have any form of CC from your support she's likely to be dead. Lulu, for example, will leave her pretty fucked because she can pop her up if she has to or just screw her over with glitterlances and Pix to keep her revealed if she tries to ult+tumble away.
Vi is not immune to CC after she arrives and has knocked up the target. Vayne can E her away while they're both up in the air. You can find a youtube video of it easily if you like. I'm also not arguing that Vi with her ult is bad at ganking bot lane. She's quite good at it. I'm contending the point that somebody made that Vayne is inherently weaker to Vi ganks than other ADCs, because I don't believe she is. Certainly less so than Draven, Ashe, Varus, or Kog'maw.
The point isn't that Vayne is inherently weaker to Vi ganks than other champs.
The point is that Vi has the tools to at least try to cope with Vayne's shenanigans; Double-gapclosing knockups.
Posts
Also, would said marksman build be BotRK, PD, IE or BoTRK, IE, PD or something else? Obviously beserker greaves as well, and then I would follow with something defensive and LW. But do I build all the attack speed first or what?
I'm playing a million bot games as Vayne right now to get better mechanically (and to escape my losing streak/make my lolking match history less...red), but I should probably make sure I've got the best build.
Nami kinda plays like sona-ish.
Joe's Stream.
I main Nami.
If you dig Lulu you'll probably enjoy nami a decent amount.
Yeah, Nami is now my backup choice for support behind Sona since nobody likes the bull anymore.
I predict you will love her, if you like those 3 supports. She's very multi-tool like Lulu. Quick rundown of how her skills work for me:
Q: It's a 1.5s stun that's really not hard to land and can hit both people if they get too close to one another foolishly.
W: Amazing ability. 725 range, and if they're near each other you can W the AD for dmg, bounce the heal back to you, then the dmg bounces back to the enemy support. Or, W yourself for a heal and bounce it to one enemy then back to your AD for heal.
E: 1 point wonder IMO because of the CDR/dmg of Q and increased dmg/heal on W are better to level, but it's super potent early levels. 25 extra dmg on 3 autos is huge in a first 3 levels trade or all in. Also, whoever has this and is auto attacking slows who they attack, so you can use it on yourself, shoot the support/ad to slow them, then land can't miss Qs. She has 550 AA range so that's nice.
R: It's super slow moving, but does knock up and apply a nice big slow, so this ability is great for 2v2 all ins, disengaging an enemy jungler if needed, or setting up your own jungler.
Your spells also give a 40 ms boost to allies for 1.5 seconds which is great for escaping ganks and kiting in team fights. Between her ult, your late game maxed E applying a 35% slow on hit, your ult 70% slow, and the stun from your Q you're just an amazing peel for your ADC.
Her only real downside is not a lot of personal damage, but that goes for most supports, and IMO the only more potent support than her right now is Thresh, just because that dude has all the CC, plus great damage, plus lantern, but he's almost always banned.
thats odd, i put lulu intothe Janna category of supports.
but i do think that nami > thresh right now.
Joe's Stream.
She's not even secretly OP anymore.
Which is a worry.
Please don't nerf fish Riot. PLZ.
I think they're technically nerfing her in the next patch, her stun's lasting longer than Riot wants. They're making sure it only lasts 1.5 seconds, at the moment it can last up to 2.
Thresh and Nami are both amazing designs for supports, but the difference is they wisely made sure Nami was only going to be good as a support. Thresh just got the super unique game changer that is his lantern, which is what makes him the superior pick right now.
My priority for Support picks is probably Thresh > Blitz > Zyra > Sona = Fiddle.
Because I don't own Nami. Because I refunded her.
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
vroom vrooooom!
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
Just game to me: Ez/Draven
Silence crushes Ez, Fear means Draven can't grab axes
Gonna have to swap my summoner icon to SK for a bit, I think.
I can respect maxing E, but you get no CDR out of increasing the level, so I'm not sure if I believe maxing it is really all that great. After MR it's not THAT much dmg, but I wouldn't hold it against somebody for making the choice.
I think maxing Q is prob the best all around because of the CDR you get and don't get on other skills, but I actually max W in almost every matchup, because i'm getting pretty good at positioning where I can heal myself and hit both enemies with it and the dmg is guaranteed, which Q is not if they dodge it.
"And this is his sofa, is it?" said Arthur.
Maxing Q first is a big no-no because you lose out on so much utility. If you miss a bubble, you have nothing if the enemy team capitalizes on the CD, and if you hit the bubble, you have no real power to follow up on if your ADC isn't an all in damage machine like Quinn/Draven/Vayne.
Maxing W is great for harass, but you run out of mana really fast, and it does deal less damage than E.
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
I mean, it doesn't really matter if you decrease the cooldown of her Q by 4 seconds if the enemy team is good at dodging her bubbles, right?
Right off the bat I could tell the Cait was not good, like at all. Bad CS, and she kept getting hooked by Darius, which should never ever happen if he doesn't flash on you with Cait. Darius got fed like 4 kills pretty early, and I just decided I wasn't having any of that. I just camped bot lane and got fed myself, TF ulted around getting fed, and what was kind of a hard game turned into a wave of ownage by us that led to us getting 2 inhibs then just winning.
I ended up 7/2/10 Zac. It really amazes me how much dmg he does with full tank. I had golem, ninja tabi, spirit visage, and sunfire cape and I could probably have 1v1ed their ADC. I'd just jump in and create so much havoc and do so much damage it was easy clean up.
I find her Q very easy to land, if only because in lane nobody wants to run right at you unless they're melee, so whoever i'm going to use it on I'll try to E myself or the AD, get them slowed from that, then throw the bubble where if they retreat backward they hit it 100%. You just have to quickly learn the dodging patterns of the laners you're against.
W max for sustain
Q max for all ins (but you shouldn't do this because there are better options)
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
This video's Intervention style music and interviews combined with the screenshots and clips from his stream are kind of hysterical
"he said some of the worst things we've ever seen in the tribunal. in fact, he was famous for wishing his opponents got cancer..."
*screenshot of ocelot spamming CANCER CANCER CANCER while soft, dramatic music plays and the camera slowly zooms in*
this is a good initiative though, and I like that Riot is putting stuff like this out and making such an effort
Since aram became possible. It's just too easy to get on that map.
The point isn't that Vayne is inherently weaker to Vi ganks than other champs.
The point is that Vi has the tools to at least try to cope with Vayne's shenanigans; Double-gapclosing knockups.
Malzahar is death incarnate
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I love her but its hard for me to recommend her