people building lucian solely for his ult are missing two crucial items
rylai's crystal scepter and liandry's torment 8-)
It deals physical damage, not spell. Liandry's should do nothing right? Even if it does the ult itself is only 3 seconds so at best, two Liandry's procs on a single target?
spell is spell. spells can do physical or magical damage
rylai's crystal scepter applies a slow when you damage someone with a spell, any kind of spell. for instance, pantheon's spears.
liandry's does magic damage when you damage someone with a spell, the procs would be continually happening and youd have the full effect because they'd be slow from the projectiles
it's actually pretty terrible but its probably more damage than your average AD build, considering it's going to slow them 35% and be really hard to miss the other projectiles that are all resetting the magic damage dot every time they hit
the lizard elder/liandries lucian ult will probably do more damage over the course of the game than your average ADC build would lol
Burn Lucian actually sounds kind of scary on paper. SotEL and Liandry's will both proc twice with his passive, and with a Rylai's I think his ult might be capable of dealing an extra ~400 true damage and ~40% of current health?
(Ignoring that you're probably not getting 2.5 attack speed with SotEL, Liandry's and Rylai's in your build...)
Burn Lucian actually sounds kind of scary on paper. SotEL and Liandry's will both proc twice with his passive, and with a Rylai's I think his ult might be capable of dealing an extra ~400 true damage and ~40% of current health?
(Ignoring that you're probably not getting 2.5 attack speed with SotEL, Liandry's and Rylai's in your build...)
I might try this in a bot game to not get laughed at.
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It seems like whenever I play mid (typically Diana or Lux) he pushes me under my tower, denies me farm, and just generally wins the lane ultra-hard. If the jungle comes to gank Malz ults and kills one of us so he's still getting ahead even if we kill him in return.
I get that neither Diana nor Lux are particularly great picks against him, but I have trouble figuring out who a better pick would be. Maybe Cho.
Most points have been covered already but to sum up:
1) Malz is pretty much always vulnerable to jungle ganks
2) Malz is pretty much garbage pre-6
3) Malz relies on Visions bounces for farming
You really have two choices:
You can shield/play games with/or just eat damage from Visions for free to stop his farming and drain him of mana. This is only particularly useful if you really want to get into a mana/farming war with him, but it's there.
You can attempt to just straight up murder him, time it after he's just casted Visions. He has two backup spells, neither of which are especially easy for him to use, during which time you can and should just beat his face in. Even with ult up, he'll have a hard time winning an equal engage if you jump him right then. Doubly so if you all-in him by Flashing his Pool so that even if he ults, there's very little extra damage. Just try not to do so while he has a minion up.
I know this shit isn't going to fly in upper gold+ but in games of mostly silvers and low golds I can generally just take a shit on botlane and then be more of an AP carry threat than our mid. We won this game anyway, despite our shitty 3 ADC 'no I absolutely must play Lucien' comp.
Rami on
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I know this shit isn't going to fly in upper gold+ but in games of mostly silvers and low golds I can generally just take a shit on botlane and then be more of an AP carry threat than our mid. We won this game anyway, despite our shitty 3 ADC 'no I absolutely must play Lucien' comp.
No, it still works in upper gold. Everyone was Plat 2-5 in my last ranked game and I had half my teams kills going into mid game as support Zyra.
I'd stop building PhiloStone though if you're not rushing Shurelya's.
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
It's definitely a crutch, yeah. I use it for the hp/mana regen in lane since Zyra can't take many hits and I want to keep harassing, and then sell it for a profit when I have 3-4 items finished.
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Up to 20 LP in Silver 1 now; today's Ranked game I played Nami with an Ashe. Let me tell you about this Ashe. She was an unholy murder machine with flash/teleport and ghostblade and Boots 3 and a Zeal at what felt like 5 minutes. I think she was 14/1/4 when the enemy team surrendered.
Turns out, Ashe with Boots 3 + Q slow + Nami E slow = even more of an insufferable bitch than Vayne is. And that's saying something.
Last night in one of the last games before I went to bed, I witnessed the birth of a god.
I saw a Veigar end a game with 1200 AP, sixth item Lich Bane. I ended up getting ahead eventually (connected at 2:19) after a handful of fights and priority number one was still keep Veigar alive for me. The damage.
Just got absolutely rocked by a 5 AD team of Ashe / Ezreal / Fiora / Varus / Caitlin who went all 5 mid without warning, killed mid, killed mid tower, and steamrolled without any real defense?
PUGs not adapting or some bullshit meta?
I've spent the last month or so playing straight ARAM and if this is what is going on in Summoner's Rift then seriously, fuck that.
Just got absolutely rocked by a 5 AD team of Ashe / Ezreal / Fiora / Varus / Caitlin who went all 5 mid without warning, killed mid, killed mid tower, and steamrolled without any real defense?
PUGs not adapting or some bullshit meta?
I've spent the last month or so playing straight ARAM and if this is what is going on in Summoner's Rift then seriously, fuck that.
No, that's a coordinated team with a gimmick strategy. It's not unbeatable. The surprise factor probably helped more than anything else.
Just got absolutely rocked by a 5 AD team of Ashe / Ezreal / Fiora / Varus / Caitlin who went all 5 mid without warning, killed mid, killed mid tower, and steamrolled without any real defense?
PUGs not adapting or some bullshit meta?
I've spent the last month or so playing straight ARAM and if this is what is going on in Summoner's Rift then seriously, fuck that.
I would love to do that with a 5 man or even have that done against me, but I never have.
Just got absolutely rocked by a 5 AD team of Ashe / Ezreal / Fiora / Varus / Caitlin who went all 5 mid without warning, killed mid, killed mid tower, and steamrolled without any real defense?
PUGs not adapting or some bullshit meta?
I've spent the last month or so playing straight ARAM and if this is what is going on in Summoner's Rift then seriously, fuck that.
No, that's a coordinated team with a gimmick strategy. It's not unbeatable. The surprise factor probably helped more than anything else.
send 3 people to defend the tower (should be even easier with the tower armor) and have 2 people go to sidelanes to push/farm up. They'll take down the side towers and have a huge level/item advantage to come clean up the 5 man team. After that they're very behind.
+1
pyromaniac221this just might bean interestin YTRegistered Userregular
Just got absolutely rocked by a 5 AD team of Ashe / Ezreal / Fiora / Varus / Caitlin who went all 5 mid without warning, killed mid, killed mid tower, and steamrolled without any real defense?
PUGs not adapting or some bullshit meta?
I've spent the last month or so playing straight ARAM and if this is what is going on in Summoner's Rift then seriously, fuck that.
Are you playing blind?
If you play draft, you very rarely get cheesed like this
Just got absolutely rocked by a 5 AD team of Ashe / Ezreal / Fiora / Varus / Caitlin who went all 5 mid without warning, killed mid, killed mid tower, and steamrolled without any real defense?
PUGs not adapting or some bullshit meta?
I've spent the last month or so playing straight ARAM and if this is what is going on in Summoner's Rift then seriously, fuck that.
No, that's a coordinated team with a gimmick strategy. It's not unbeatable. The surprise factor probably helped more than anything else.
send 3 people to defend the tower (should be even easier with the tower armor) and have 2 people go to sidelanes to push/farm up. They'll take down the side towers and have a huge level/item advantage to come clean up the 5 man team. After that they're very behind.
This is based off of having people with waveclear.
I played a game with not so good waveclear against it. Pushed back to nexus towers then our timebomb trynd + vayne went off
Either way, it can be pretty annoying. New tower armor makes it a lot less effective
I know this shit isn't going to fly in upper gold+ but in games of mostly silvers and low golds I can generally just take a shit on botlane and then be more of an AP carry threat than our mid. We won this game anyway, despite our shitty 3 ADC 'no I absolutely must play Lucien' comp.
No, it still works in upper gold. Everyone was Plat 2-5 in my last ranked game and I had half my teams kills going into mid game as support Zyra.
I'd stop building PhiloStone though if you're not rushing Shurelya's.
Triple gold items can work fine on any ranged support at any level of solo queue. The important thing is to prioritize oracle's and usually a few extra pink/green wards with the extra money before getting items.
As long as you keep oracle's up buy literally whatever you want. I would rather have a support who gets triple gold into deathfire grasp but has 100% oracle uptime than a double gold support with locket/shurelia's who doesn't.
Probably lucky the game ended quick, but I was surprisingly effective. I got first blood and went "what?" Lol. I even told my team I'd probably be useuless.
EDIT
So evidently Phreak has a stream. I pop in and he's listening to gangster rap. Something about this is hilarious to me.
He talks a lot it seems. Could be really helpful and informational to watch. Not sure how good he actually is, but he's talking about hwat he's doing and why
edit 2 I learn something already. You can Q elise's spiderlings as lee sin.
I really have no idea how some of the people I play with even made it to 30 without just quitting the game. Daily bot matches, I guess?
Or maybe everyone's just drunk.
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pyromaniac221this just might bean interestin YTRegistered Userregular
So normal queue decided to match me up against a team of golds and a diamond and I outfarmed their ashe by 140 at the end of the game and did pretty well.
I feel good about that!
Even though their diamond brand pulled some shit I would never have seen coming ever and crushed my presumptuous ass a couple of times
What the hell was his build? How do you even get that much AP?
Most likely:
DFG, Haunting Guise, Sorcerer's Shoes, Void Staff, Deathcap, Lichbane. This is the most damage efficient build order on Veigar. Its possible that he built raw AP instead of Guise/Void and so increased his listed AP but decreased his effective damage, but its unlikely.
He gets 1 AP per q creep kill, 2 AP per big creep/champion q kill, and 1-5 AP per champion kill[realistically 3-5 because you don't tend to get kills pre level 6] regardless of what ability lands the blow. This AP is increased by the 5% bonus in masteries and 30% bonus from Deathcap so in reality all those values are effectively 36.5% higher.
The longer the game goes on (or the more time veigar is left to free farm without map pressure so he can stack his q) the more of a threat he becomes. I have, myself, nearly gotten to 1000 [~985 is my record, i had baron but didn't get a blue pot, so had i gone back before ending i would have made it] with that build and at that point its pretty hard to not win the game(one way or the other... get caught GG!). You do so much damage that you can pretty much burst anyone down regardless of their items
at 1000 AP
0 MR Full DFG + Ignite Combo damage: 7124
55 MR Full DFG + Ignite Combo damage: 7124
100 MR Full DFG+ Ignite Combo damage: 5557
200 MR Full DFG + Ignite Combo damage: 3776
So I'm seeing some Annie builds in ranked scoreboards here and elsewhere, and they don't have Rod of Ages. I've been building that first a few times, it seems to let her survive better mid-game. Am I goofing up here?
Party Hat rush lets you instantly nuke waves while RoA does not. Once you've pushed the wave, you can go roam as you see fit, which is generally what the Annies of today do with their time.
Nifty cool thing: you can drop Annie's ult on Dragon and two-man it with your jungler pretty much the exact second you hit six.
I feel like with the rise of assassins, Zhonya's just puts in so much more work than Rod. She doesn't desperately need the extra mana (because of the Q refund) and Zhonya's can mitigate thousands of potential damage. It also gives armor and more damage than a Rod does. Although, from my understanding, Rod is a very efficient item.
Rod is very efficient when you count its mana. Without its mana its still decently efficient, but not compared to completed items. NLR+Giants Belt = 80 AP, 380 HP = 2600 Gold. Rod is 2800 and has 60 AP and 450 HP until 10 minutes later
It really starts to shine if you're looking at either mana hungry champions and especially champions which get AA staff
Rod with AA staff = 99.5 AP, 650 HP plus mana that you're actually might use.
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Yes. Eve gets two ticks immediately when she casts her E.
spell is spell. spells can do physical or magical damage
rylai's crystal scepter applies a slow when you damage someone with a spell, any kind of spell. for instance, pantheon's spears.
liandry's does magic damage when you damage someone with a spell, the procs would be continually happening and youd have the full effect because they'd be slow from the projectiles
it's actually pretty terrible but its probably more damage than your average AD build, considering it's going to slow them 35% and be really hard to miss the other projectiles that are all resetting the magic damage dot every time they hit
the lizard elder/liandries lucian ult will probably do more damage over the course of the game than your average ADC build would lol
edit: i editted this shit a million times
(Ignoring that you're probably not getting 2.5 attack speed with SotEL, Liandry's and Rylai's in your build...)
SotEL/Liandry/Rylai/Nashor's Tooth/Runaan's Hurricane/Zephyr
I might try this in a bot game to not get laughed at.
1) Malz is pretty much always vulnerable to jungle ganks
2) Malz is pretty much garbage pre-6
3) Malz relies on Visions bounces for farming
You really have two choices:
You can shield/play games with/or just eat damage from Visions for free to stop his farming and drain him of mana. This is only particularly useful if you really want to get into a mana/farming war with him, but it's there.
You can attempt to just straight up murder him, time it after he's just casted Visions. He has two backup spells, neither of which are especially easy for him to use, during which time you can and should just beat his face in. Even with ult up, he'll have a hard time winning an equal engage if you jump him right then. Doubly so if you all-in him by Flashing his Pool so that even if he ults, there's very little extra damage. Just try not to do so while he has a minion up.
And they are nerfing Nidalee and Teemo for TT too, hell yes.
I know this shit isn't going to fly in upper gold+ but in games of mostly silvers and low golds I can generally just take a shit on botlane and then be more of an AP carry threat than our mid. We won this game anyway, despite our shitty 3 ADC 'no I absolutely must play Lucien' comp.
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No, it still works in upper gold. Everyone was Plat 2-5 in my last ranked game and I had half my teams kills going into mid game as support Zyra.
I'd stop building PhiloStone though if you're not rushing Shurelya's.
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
Turns out, Ashe with Boots 3 + Q slow + Nami E slow = even more of an insufferable bitch than Vayne is. And that's saying something.
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I stole Baron that game too
I saw a Veigar end a game with 1200 AP, sixth item Lich Bane. I ended up getting ahead eventually (connected at 2:19) after a handful of fights and priority number one was still keep Veigar alive for me. The damage.
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PUGs not adapting or some bullshit meta?
I've spent the last month or so playing straight ARAM and if this is what is going on in Summoner's Rift then seriously, fuck that.
No, that's a coordinated team with a gimmick strategy. It's not unbeatable. The surprise factor probably helped more than anything else.
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send 3 people to defend the tower (should be even easier with the tower armor) and have 2 people go to sidelanes to push/farm up. They'll take down the side towers and have a huge level/item advantage to come clean up the 5 man team. After that they're very behind.
Are you playing blind?
If you play draft, you very rarely get cheesed like this
This is based off of having people with waveclear.
I played a game with not so good waveclear against it. Pushed back to nexus towers then our timebomb trynd + vayne went off
Either way, it can be pretty annoying. New tower armor makes it a lot less effective
Triple gold items can work fine on any ranged support at any level of solo queue. The important thing is to prioritize oracle's and usually a few extra pink/green wards with the extra money before getting items.
As long as you keep oracle's up buy literally whatever you want. I would rather have a support who gets triple gold into deathfire grasp but has 100% oracle uptime than a double gold support with locket/shurelia's who doesn't.
So when are we duo'ing, and what OP combination of champs do you want to start practicing.
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Probably lucky the game ended quick, but I was surprisingly effective. I got first blood and went "what?" Lol. I even told my team I'd probably be useuless.
EDIT
So evidently Phreak has a stream. I pop in and he's listening to gangster rap. Something about this is hilarious to me.
He talks a lot it seems. Could be really helpful and informational to watch. Not sure how good he actually is, but he's talking about hwat he's doing and why
edit 2 I learn something already. You can Q elise's spiderlings as lee sin.
I really have no idea how some of the people I play with even made it to 30 without just quitting the game. Daily bot matches, I guess?
Or maybe everyone's just drunk.
I feel good about that!
Even though their diamond brand pulled some shit I would never have seen coming ever and crushed my presumptuous ass a couple of times
epic throw
I suppose we could call that...
8-)
Going KAM.
Most likely:
DFG, Haunting Guise, Sorcerer's Shoes, Void Staff, Deathcap, Lichbane. This is the most damage efficient build order on Veigar. Its possible that he built raw AP instead of Guise/Void and so increased his listed AP but decreased his effective damage, but its unlikely.
He gets 1 AP per q creep kill, 2 AP per big creep/champion q kill, and 1-5 AP per champion kill[realistically 3-5 because you don't tend to get kills pre level 6] regardless of what ability lands the blow. This AP is increased by the 5% bonus in masteries and 30% bonus from Deathcap so in reality all those values are effectively 36.5% higher.
The longer the game goes on (or the more time veigar is left to free farm without map pressure so he can stack his q) the more of a threat he becomes. I have, myself, nearly gotten to 1000 [~985 is my record, i had baron but didn't get a blue pot, so had i gone back before ending i would have made it] with that build and at that point its pretty hard to not win the game(one way or the other... get caught GG!). You do so much damage that you can pretty much burst anyone down regardless of their items
at 1000 AP
0 MR Full DFG + Ignite Combo damage: 7124
55 MR Full DFG + Ignite Combo damage: 7124
100 MR Full DFG+ Ignite Combo damage: 5557
200 MR Full DFG + Ignite Combo damage: 3776
not including base auto attack damage
Huh, missed this post
@Roz
Rod is very efficient when you count its mana. Without its mana its still decently efficient, but not compared to completed items. NLR+Giants Belt = 80 AP, 380 HP = 2600 Gold. Rod is 2800 and has 60 AP and 450 HP until 10 minutes later
It really starts to shine if you're looking at either mana hungry champions and especially champions which get AA staff
Rod with AA staff = 99.5 AP, 650 HP plus mana that you're actually might use.