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[Roleplaying Games] Play Everything, Only GM the Games You Want To

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  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    30 weeks + a final arc isn't enough? $45 is too much for over a half year of gaming?

    Nope, its not enough and yes its too much. We work things out so our games run at least a full year. The fact that it is, from my perspective, a half of a full game means that $45 is too much. Especially for a game that my group wouldn't get to until sometime in late 2014 or early 2015 anyway (we are early in our current campaign and have plans for two more games as is).

    PSN|AspectVoid
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    I often tease my wife that she only plays one character, regardless of game or setting. Smart, attractive, highly educated, female royalty.

    But I have recently come to the realization that all of my characters are surly, have narrowly focused skillsets, impulse issues, are highly destructive and horrifyingly dangerous when provoked. So I'm basically just playing a reskin of the Incredible Hulk everytime I set down at the table as a player. Maybe I should tease her less.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    My friend Danny plays a charismatic, dashing rogue who *WILL* stab you in the back, no matter what game you play. D&D, WoD, EQ, Monopoly, Go Fish. Doesn't matter.

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    In other news, this week's dive into the Palladium Books forums found an individual who actually spent the time statting out Bartitsu as a martial art form for Ninjas and Superspies.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    Thought I'd help this guy in H&A out by crossposting his thread here: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/182093/just-starting-to-play-d-d-and-i-need-a-little-help#latest

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    I often tease my wife that she only plays one character, regardless of game or setting. Smart, attractive, highly educated, female royalty.

    But I have recently come to the realization that all of my characters are surly, have narrowly focused skillsets, impulse issues, are highly destructive and horrifyingly dangerous when provoked. So I'm basically just playing a reskin of the Incredible Hulk everytime I set down at the table as a player. Maybe I should tease her less.

    I found myself playing the party face/party mess-cleaning-up-guy a lot so I told myself I'd try out different characters. So now I've been playing gruff characters who aren't very good at diplomacy and talk with their weapons or just intimidate people into doing what they want and I realized again that hey, maybe I should do something else again. So my latest character is a party face!

    usnTyq4.jpg
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    I honestly don't care how many levels you put in.

    As long as you actually properly support the game for every expected level of play, I am all for it. 4E was a functional system all the way until 30th, but the sheer lack of support for 20-30 killed the ability to effectively use it. 3E is a total disaster between levels 1-3 and from anything above 15th if you have spellcasters, so they might as well not bother with the other levels.

    If they have 10 levels and all of them are supported and completely functional? That's called "Good game design".

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
    AnialosAuralynxArdentjdarksunDevoutlyApatheticbssEdith UpwardsMikey CTSGrunt's GhostsfirewulfArsenic CanarySolarStranger DangerElldren
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Found my notes on a Monsterhearts game I started designing to run here. Too bad I don't know what to do after the immediate idea...

    jdarksun
  • Mikey CTSMikey CTS Registered User regular
    edited August 2013
    My understanding of Monsterhearts was basically just put all the players in the same room then just let them go nuts. You don't need to write any plot or send them on any adventures. The players will move the narrative forward through their own motivations and Strings. Eventually one of them becomes the Big Bad by activating thier Darkest Self and the rest of the players have to put him or her down. It only needs a GM to set the opening scene, adjudicate the rules, and give a little push if the game ever starts to stall.

    Is that wrong?

    Mikey CTS on
    // PSN: wyrd_warrior // MHW Name: Josei //
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    I often tease my wife that she only plays one character, regardless of game or setting. Smart, attractive, highly educated, female royalty.

    But I have recently come to the realization that all of my characters are surly, have narrowly focused skillsets, impulse issues, are highly destructive and horrifyingly dangerous when provoked. So I'm basically just playing a reskin of the Incredible Hulk everytime I set down at the table as a player. Maybe I should tease her less.

    I play characters who, in turn, play characters. Rogues who pass themselves off as members of the clergy, mages who spend most of their time as animals, Tech Priests who aspire to become mostly metal, charlatan doctors, a guy who pretended to be his own father...

    I once joked that my life must really suck if even my characters have to engage in escapism. Then I had to think long and hard about that.

    My next two characters are going to be an absent-minded inventive genius and a kindly merchant, so hopefully I've broken out of that pattern.

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Mikey CTS wrote: »
    My understanding of Monsterhearts was basically just put all the players in the same room then just let them go nuts. You don't need to write any plot or send them on any adventures. The players will move the narrative forward through their own motivations and Strings. Eventually one of them becomes the Big Bad by activating thier Darkest Self and the rest of the players have to put him or her down. It only needs a GM to set the opening scene, adjudicate the rules, and give a little push if the game ever starts to stall.

    Is that wrong?

    Not sure but I feel there needs to be shit going on and they have to deal with it (or not). If Monsterhearts runs like you say, its not my cup of tea (from a GM's POV).

  • Mikey CTSMikey CTS Registered User regular
    That was just the way Monsterhearts was described on the Shut Up & Sit Down podcast. They described the GM's job in the game as not to tell a story because the player characters are they story.

    // PSN: wyrd_warrior // MHW Name: Josei //
  • Super NamicchiSuper Namicchi Registered User regular
    Mikey CTS wrote: »
    My understanding of Monsterhearts was basically just put all the players in the same room then just let them go nuts. You don't need to write any plot or send them on any adventures. The players will move the narrative forward through their own motivations and Strings. Eventually one of them becomes the Big Bad by activating thier Darkest Self and the rest of the players have to put him or her down. It only needs a GM to set the opening scene, adjudicate the rules, and give a little push if the game ever starts to stall.

    Is that wrong?

    that is... sort of correct

    monsterhearts is a game fueled by teenage drama and angst, and doesn't really work if you think in terms of main villains

    the players, if they are playing well and the mc is responding correctly, should not ever be in concert with each other. the minute their goals line up is the minute you use npcs to drive a wedge in between so the tension is constantly torqued up

    becoming darkest self isn't about going on rampages and having the town band together, it's about the game allowing your character to be awful for a little while knowing that the ripples of consequences will be felt a long ways down the line

    but yes, don't plan anything in monsterhearts. don't indulge in back stories or world building beyond an evocative sentence. you won't get what you want if you script things and the game will feel flat

    Mikey CTS
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Damn. I had this idea about an old mining town who has something in a collapsed shaft drawing in the supernaturals and the players being newly turned (more or less) and finding themselves dealing with a secret war for whatever is in that mine... oh well... new system then.

  • Mikey CTSMikey CTS Registered User regular
    Thanks, Arc! That's very helpful.

    // PSN: wyrd_warrior // MHW Name: Josei //
  • Super NamicchiSuper Namicchi Registered User regular
    yeah the game is 100% propelled forward by the protagonists' motivations and goals, plots just don't work out well

  • DenadaDenada Registered User regular
    Yeah that sounds more like a ____ of Cthulhu or nWoD game to me. Monsterhearts isn't really about Stuff Happening, it's more about teenage monsters having angst, sex, sexy angst, and angst-ridden sex.

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Your game sounds like it would probably run well in Fate, Grunt. Dresden Files specifically, since there are rules in there for a bunch of different supernatural things.

    Or MHRPG if you're going for the supernatural throwdown thing.

    4E could probably run it if you did some reflavoring.

    nWoD is good as well, but if you're looking at different types of supernatural PCs, it's a pain to mix books (imo).

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
    Leper
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    I was thinking Fate but with me doing a MHR game (barely now), I'm kinda wanting to play with something else. Really I just want to play something but since I'm the only GM I know, its up to me to run games, which I love doing but its a lot of pressure because I'm a quesi- perfectionist with a high ego.

  • VanguardVanguard A wretched country of duskRegistered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2013
    Why would the number of levels have any effect on your enjoyment of a game? It seems odd to focus on something like that as opposed the the methods/economy of advancement.

    Vanguard on
    Grunt's GhostsAnialosArdentLeper
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Like a said before, levels are a false sense of Achievement. If you can get a noticeable boost in a level then its not but if a new level is 5 hit points and one more power that's slighty better than your old power then Id rather not mess with them. But I'm an odd duck.

  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Why would the number of levels have any effect on your enjoyment of a game? It seems odd to focus on something like that as opposed the the methods/economy of advancement.

    To me, growth of character is a MASSIVE part of an RPG, whether built as a level system or an XP buy system. As 13th age is a level system, having only 10 levels leaves you to very limited length of growth for the characters in the game. If the book was $20, I would have bought it (hell, I bought the 5 level Dragon Age RPG when I stumbled across it for $15) but at $45, its just too expensive for the limited growth.

    PSN|AspectVoid
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    For you its about price. As a cheap bastard, I can respect that.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Why would the number of levels have any effect on your enjoyment of a game? It seems odd to focus on something like that as opposed the the methods/economy of advancement.

    To me, growth of character is a MASSIVE part of an RPG, whether built as a level system or an XP buy system. As 13th age is a level system, having only 10 levels leaves you to very limited length of growth for the characters in the game. If the book was $20, I would have bought it (hell, I bought the 5 level Dragon Age RPG when I stumbled across it for $15) but at $45, its just too expensive for the limited growth.

    You seem very hung up on the word "level".

    What's the difference between a 30 level system and a 10 level system that has more than three "sub" levels available if you want to use them?

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
    VanguardArdentAnialos
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    It's definitely a spectrum, in terms of what a player is looking for in this area. I'm still not sure I'm ok with the idea of never getting objectively "better" in a Fate game, because I do like mechanical growth mechanisms. 10 levels is something, but it's not much compared to other systems with 20 or even 30 levels, leaving aside the quality of those levels, of course.

    I have also, though, begun to see the problem with 20 level games on a bi-weekly adult life schedule. I finally just started leveling my 4E players after every session because they had these big plans that required paragon paths and high level feats and couldn't make them work if we were gaining a level every month and a half.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Why would the number of levels have any effect on your enjoyment of a game? It seems odd to focus on something like that as opposed the the methods/economy of advancement.

    To me, growth of character is a MASSIVE part of an RPG, whether built as a level system or an XP buy system. As 13th age is a level system, having only 10 levels leaves you to very limited length of growth for the characters in the game. If the book was $20, I would have bought it (hell, I bought the 5 level Dragon Age RPG when I stumbled across it for $15) but at $45, its just too expensive for the limited growth.

    You seem very hung up on the word "level".

    What's the difference between a 30 level system and a 10 level system that has more than three "sub" levels available if you want to use them?

    Its more then that. If you have a group who plays regularly for a year, then you want something to drag out. Like Fate games don't seem to be built for a long campaigns like 4e is, 13th Age doesn't seem to last as long, from an outsider looking in perspective.

  • VanguardVanguard A wretched country of duskRegistered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Why would the number of levels have any effect on your enjoyment of a game? It seems odd to focus on something like that as opposed the the methods/economy of advancement.

    To me, growth of character is a MASSIVE part of an RPG, whether built as a level system or an XP buy system. As 13th age is a level system, having only 10 levels leaves you to very limited length of growth for the characters in the game. If the book was $20, I would have bought it (hell, I bought the 5 level Dragon Age RPG when I stumbled across it for $15) but at $45, its just too expensive for the limited growth.

    You're misreading my post. I'm not asking why advancement is important, I'm asking why an arbitrary thing like the number of levels is a deal breaker. Every game has its own economy of advancement, which is why basing on something like a number is dumb.

    So no, there is no "limited growth" in 13th Age; it's just a different economy of advancement.

  • Mikey CTSMikey CTS Registered User regular
    edited August 2013
    What everyone seems to be say is that within each level of 13th Age are three hidden levels. So really, you have a game with 30 levels worth of advancement, it just won't say level 30 on your charactersheet.

    Mikey CTS on
    // PSN: wyrd_warrior // MHW Name: Josei //
    Anialos
  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    Vanguard wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Why would the number of levels have any effect on your enjoyment of a game? It seems odd to focus on something like that as opposed the the methods/economy of advancement.

    To me, growth of character is a MASSIVE part of an RPG, whether built as a level system or an XP buy system. As 13th age is a level system, having only 10 levels leaves you to very limited length of growth for the characters in the game. If the book was $20, I would have bought it (hell, I bought the 5 level Dragon Age RPG when I stumbled across it for $15) but at $45, its just too expensive for the limited growth.

    You're misreading my post. I'm not asking why advancement is important, I'm asking why an arbitrary thing like the number of levels is a deal breaker. Every game has its own economy of advancement, which is why basing on something like a number is dumb.

    So no, there is no "limited growth" in 13th Age; it's just a different economy of advancement.

    Except there IS limited growth. What part of "ten is half the number of twenty in a Level Based game" do you not understand? I am NOT the one who designed the game utilizing a level based system (and limited it to only 10 levels). I'm just calling it as I see it. And I see it as Ten being half of Twenty, and thus leading to half the length of a campaign, and thus leading to being WAY too short a game for $45.

    PSN|AspectVoid
  • Mikey CTSMikey CTS Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Why would the number of levels have any effect on your enjoyment of a game? It seems odd to focus on something like that as opposed the the methods/economy of advancement.

    To me, growth of character is a MASSIVE part of an RPG, whether built as a level system or an XP buy system. As 13th age is a level system, having only 10 levels leaves you to very limited length of growth for the characters in the game. If the book was $20, I would have bought it (hell, I bought the 5 level Dragon Age RPG when I stumbled across it for $15) but at $45, its just too expensive for the limited growth.

    You're misreading my post. I'm not asking why advancement is important, I'm asking why an arbitrary thing like the number of levels is a deal breaker. Every game has its own economy of advancement, which is why basing on something like a number is dumb.

    So no, there is no "limited growth" in 13th Age; it's just a different economy of advancement.

    Except there IS limited growth. What part of "ten is half the number of twenty in a Level Based game" do you not understand? I am NOT the one who designed the game utilizing a level based system (and limited it to only 10 levels). I'm just calling it as I see it. And I see it as Ten being half of Twenty, and thus leading to half the length of a campaign, and thus leading to being WAY too short a game for $45.
    Mikey CTS wrote: »
    What everyone seems to be say is that within each level of 13th Age are three hidden levels. So really, you have a game with 30 levels worth of advancement, it just won't say level 30 on your charactersheet.

    // PSN: wyrd_warrior // MHW Name: Josei //
    ArdentAnialosKaplar
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    13th Age has an option to take various level-based bonuses as mid-level upgrades as well. So, rather than the power pinata exploding when you hit a certain XP threshold, you can get a more stable, less herky-jerky growth path.

    If you do this for every level, 13th Age has a huge number of effective plateaus of ability. There's always something to increase, and you'll get to increase 40 or 50 things over the course of a campaign. It's not 30 "ding, everything is better now" increases, but it's more growth than you'll get out of a Fighter in 3rd Edition.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
    ArdentAnialos
  • VanguardVanguard A wretched country of duskRegistered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Why would the number of levels have any effect on your enjoyment of a game? It seems odd to focus on something like that as opposed the the methods/economy of advancement.

    To me, growth of character is a MASSIVE part of an RPG, whether built as a level system or an XP buy system. As 13th age is a level system, having only 10 levels leaves you to very limited length of growth for the characters in the game. If the book was $20, I would have bought it (hell, I bought the 5 level Dragon Age RPG when I stumbled across it for $15) but at $45, its just too expensive for the limited growth.

    You're misreading my post. I'm not asking why advancement is important, I'm asking why an arbitrary thing like the number of levels is a deal breaker. Every game has its own economy of advancement, which is why basing on something like a number is dumb.

    So no, there is no "limited growth" in 13th Age; it's just a different economy of advancement.

    Except there IS limited growth. What part of "ten is half the number of twenty in a Level Based game" do you not understand? I am NOT the one who designed the game utilizing a level based system (and limited it to only 10 levels). I'm just calling it as I see it. And I see it as Ten being half of Twenty, and thus leading to half the length of a campaign, and thus leading to being WAY too short a game for $45.

    Guess what? Burning Wheel has 45 pages of skills (somewhere around 300+), and Pathfinder only has like 15! Therefore, Pathfinder limits your character growth! Might as well sell your books and grab the BW book, since it's only $25.

    /serious post time

    You can't compare the number of levels across systems on a 1:1 scale because they likely won't be equal. So you're right, 10 is half of 20, but that doesn't mean that your growth is limited because the benefits of each level are going to be different. This is what is meant by economy of advancement.

  • DenadaDenada Registered User regular
    edited August 2013
    I keep writing a post about this "levels per $" topic but I keep deleting it because it doesn't add anything.

    Instead I'll say that I've been watching Alphas with my wife and it really makes me want to run a low-powered MHR game. Like, a lot. It also makes me sad that the show was cancelled. It seems like whenever my wife and I agree that a show is really good, chances are it's going to get cancelled. The worst one was Kings. That show was so cool and had so much potential and it never got a chance.

    Denada on
    OptimusZedAuralynx
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Alphas is a really strong inspiration for my upcoming MHRPG game. Which I finally got scheduled for Sunday, yay. Players will be "normals" who get empowered in a kind of Terrigen-mist style terrorist attack, then they'll be working for SHIELD as a civilian-ish task force.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Denada wrote: »
    I keep writing a post about this "levels per $" topic but I keep deleting it because it doesn't add anything.

    Instead I'll say that I've been watching Alphas with my wife and it really makes me want to run a low-powered MHR game. Like, a lot. It also makes me sad that the show was cancelled. It seems like whenever my wife and I agree that a show is really good, chances are it's going to get cancelled. The worst one was Kings. That show was so cool and had so much potential and it never got a chance.

    Don't tell me this. I just picked up season 1!

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Season 2 is where it gets really, really good.

    And the Season 3 that could have been has so much potential for the GM who wants to go there.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Also, I think the problem here is a lack of info. Id didn't know about the minilevels inside the 13th Age levels before. I thought it was just 10 levels with some interesting mechanics for each before today. So let's back off this harshness. We are better then that.

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    So I bought Numenera today

    mostly because holy shit so pretty

    looks like a sort of class level system? but also not so much, the resolution mechanic is cool and I think the setting seems kind of awesome, or at least the artwork and layout sells the hell out of it

  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    Also, I think the problem here is a lack of info. Id didn't know about the minilevels inside the 13th Age levels before. I thought it was just 10 levels with some interesting mechanics for each before today. So let's back off this harshness. We are better then that.

    Yeah, in flipping through the book in a GenCon booth, there was no obvious indication of this whole mini-level concept anywhere in the opening character creation chapter of the book that listed all of the classes and their level progression. So they lost a sale due to poor book design. Ah well, thems the breaks.

    PSN|AspectVoid
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    So, Numenera. Setting looks cool. Art is evocative. Bunch of neat id.....

    Monte Cook.

    Pass.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
    LeperElldren
This discussion has been closed.