Tombfyre you are a genius! We should create a "steam friend" system in which we can pair an Australian (or NZ) with someone from another country, have the Australian send money through pay-pal and then have the other person purchase and gift the games back on steam. That way we still pay for our own games, but through the goodness of internationally based gamers, we can take a stand against our digital prices.
I am tired of the 'gender in gaming' monologue. The game industry is very competitive; regardless of your demographic, you'll get your own set of games because there is money to be made there. Does anyone really believe that game companies are in a position to ignore fifty percent of the population? Seriously? Just as with any entertainment medium, a given title is going to target a specific subset of available demographics, and no game can target every demographic. You will never like all of the games on the market, no matter who you are. Buy the games you like to increase the number of games made for your blend of demographics.
That is in fact exactly what people are arguing is happening. Game publishers only approve games they think will sell. They look at what has been selling, and to who *coughcallofdutyteen/20'smalescough*. They chase this market, focus test with this market, and make games designed to appeal to this market. These games often treat certain other groups poorly (racially, sexually, gender-wise, etc.) or have characters that are at best bland and at worst outright offensive representations of these groups. As a result, these other groups do not buy these games. And then the industry looks and says "well, why make games for [demographic x]? They don't buy games!"
The Jimquisition on the escapist hassomevideos that do a great job of explaining how the industry has been convinced to ignore large demographics of gamers already, in regards to genres of games. The same failures of logic can and do apply in this case.
What's so hard to believe about it? You're assuming perfect rationality out of multiple large, disjointed and poorly communicative corporate entities headed in all likelihood by people who don't use the products they produce! I happen to think that's WAY more unbelievable than the alternative.
I feel some of these guys were rather underrated. Not sure if that's because it's a joke or because of the actual opinion of the reviewer. I mean, frankly, I tend to prefer those little pie shaped rating things where there are different categories, because sometimes you want the cool/mysterious type, and others you want the cute type.
@dejavu,again: I'm afraid I have to agree with this statement, but not in the way in which you intended it.
dejavu,again wrote: "What's so hard to believe about it? You're assuming perfect rationality out of multiple large, disjointed and poorly communicative corporate entities headed in all likelihood by people who don't use the products they produce! I happen to think that's WAY more unbelievable than the alternative."
Actually, that's exactly why I believe the system to be self-correcting. There is absolutely no way that every single game company can stay on the same page long enough to exclude a demographic. That would take a level of collusion that is just not possible in an industry of this size.
The cycle is this: large corporations take the low-risk games, as they always have. But the indie market is thriving right now, and traditionally the indies are the ones who push the envelope and cater to new demographics. As the big companies see these games make money, it gives them the confidence to cater to the new demographics (or proves they shouldn't bother).
Now, I'm not going to claim that EA is going to release a AAA dating sim. That's not realistic. But I am saying that the level of industry investment in a given game type will, over time, tend toward equilibrium with the level of demand for that game type. Competition is fierce enough that the market tends to be saturated or nearly so.
@Haapy: You're cutting big name publishers way too much slack, and they'll hang you with it. The indie revolution has been going on for a few years now, and all we've seen big pulishers like EA do with it is buy up smaller companies, and then ruin them by farming out their IPs. Perfect example: PvZ Garden Warfare.
Also, it doesn't take any sort of collusion to keep the industry all doing the same nonsense, just greed, which is why we're in the state we are now anyway. EA, Acti-Blizz, and Ubisoft only care about sales numbers. So they will take as few risks as possible to get those numbers, which means ignoring, or being ignorant to, any demo outside the 18-35 white male group.
@OgreSamanosuke: You make some very valid points. I draw different conclusions from those facts, however. I see these companies' greed as a positive force for change - they will do whatever gets them the most money, and we control the money. It's not instant, though. The larger a corporation becomes, the greater its inertia. On top of that, the average AAA title takes three to five years to create. If we look at the games market five to seven years ago, we see that gamers were overwhelmingly 16-25 white males. We're only just now seeing those numbers equalize between age, gender, race, etc. as gaming becomes socially acceptable.
My prediction is that, while slow, we'll see a shift over the next five years that incorporates the changing demographics, precisely because EA, Acti-Blizz, Ubisoft, new indies that hit the big-time, etc. are greedy and want to keep making money. The explosion of the indie scene has just started, but there is so much more experimentation than ever before in the industry's history that it makes me very hopeful for our future. We're in a very good spot as gamers
Well, I've taken up enough screen space here, so I think let this post be my closing statement :oP I'd love to read your thoughts though, if you would like to post them.
I don't always find it's a price issues here in aus, my problem is they never ship enough copies of certain games, and after the physical copies are sold out (like monster hunter for the 3ds which has happened a few times now) they only offer up digital copies and if you have wireless or no internet at all pox to you if you want to play that game. there is also some really good games that you have to fight over for copies of as the release of them is so few and rare. not everyone here wants to play COD, or at the very least, play something a bit more different like no more heros 2
@OgreSamanosuke: You make some very valid points. I draw different conclusions from those facts, however. I see these companies' greed as a positive force for change - they will do whatever gets them the most money, and we control the money. It's not instant, though. The larger a corporation becomes, the greater its inertia. On top of that, the average AAA title takes three to five years to create. If we look at the games market five to seven years ago, we see that gamers were overwhelmingly 16-25 white males. We're only just now seeing those numbers equalize between age, gender, race, etc. as gaming becomes socially acceptable.
My prediction is that, while slow, we'll see a shift over the next five years that incorporates the changing demographics, precisely because EA, Acti-Blizz, Ubisoft, new indies that hit the big-time, etc. are greedy and want to keep making money. The explosion of the indie scene has just started, but there is so much more experimentation than ever before in the industry's history that it makes me very hopeful for our future. We're in a very good spot as gamers
Well, I've taken up enough screen space here, so I think let this post be my closing statement :oP I'd love to read your thoughts though, if you would like to post them.
Happy gaming, all!
And what will prompt and/or hasten this shift over time? The very same gender/race discussions you claimed to be tired of!
Seriously though, game companies keep going out of business because they keep targeting the same overlapping demographics with the same games and budgets that are way too large. I think any discussions about trying something different in game development is a benefit to the industry as a whole. The louder, the better.
Also, if you think this demographic shift is inevitable, so are the conversations surrounding it. The fastest way to end these discussions, in that case, would be to get game companies to address these issues.
dejavu,again on
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I expect regular dating sim rate-the-options episodes now. That was great.
Wait, was I supposed to feel weird/bad after hearing Kathleen rate all those guys purely on their do-ability? Sorry, but I've got daughters so I hear that stuff ALL THE TIME.
Aussie here! And it COMPLETELY SUCKS! I had to go hunting to find a copy of Last of Us on release day that was under $90! (The place I import from takes 2 weeks, no way I could wait that long for that game. Also, even though shipping is free, there is a tax...)
So I made a US PSN account to buy games not on the EU/AU/NZ store (can still play them on my AU account WOOOO!) but you need a US credit card or US PSN voucher, and the only place you can buy them online charges you for the code to be e-mailed. So If anyone could message me a US PSN voucher for "Gift a Game to an Aussie Day" that would be much appreciated!
I'm an Australian and I have a simple rule: If a game costs more than 20% than it's US counterpart (after converting currency), I pirate it. Price jacking publishers can get fucked, and if they're going to do that then they don't deserve any money at all.
0
TherianOmegaMD1191-GXP.Mk.VIIScottdale,AZRegistered Usernew member
That Bishi Review should be its own show! I'm not as creepy as that pic cuz i shaved the beard!
Posts
That is in fact exactly what people are arguing is happening. Game publishers only approve games they think will sell. They look at what has been selling, and to who *coughcallofdutyteen/20'smalescough*. They chase this market, focus test with this market, and make games designed to appeal to this market. These games often treat certain other groups poorly (racially, sexually, gender-wise, etc.) or have characters that are at best bland and at worst outright offensive representations of these groups. As a result, these other groups do not buy these games. And then the industry looks and says "well, why make games for [demographic x]? They don't buy games!"
The Jimquisition on the escapist has some videos that do a great job of explaining how the industry has been convinced to ignore large demographics of gamers already, in regards to genres of games. The same failures of logic can and do apply in this case.
What's so hard to believe about it? You're assuming perfect rationality out of multiple large, disjointed and poorly communicative corporate entities headed in all likelihood by people who don't use the products they produce! I happen to think that's WAY more unbelievable than the alternative.
Also yeah, the whole Aussie price thing is stupid because there isn't a good reason for it other than 'we can get away with it'.
dejavu,again wrote: "What's so hard to believe about it? You're assuming perfect rationality out of multiple large, disjointed and poorly communicative corporate entities headed in all likelihood by people who don't use the products they produce! I happen to think that's WAY more unbelievable than the alternative."
Actually, that's exactly why I believe the system to be self-correcting. There is absolutely no way that every single game company can stay on the same page long enough to exclude a demographic. That would take a level of collusion that is just not possible in an industry of this size.
The cycle is this: large corporations take the low-risk games, as they always have. But the indie market is thriving right now, and traditionally the indies are the ones who push the envelope and cater to new demographics. As the big companies see these games make money, it gives them the confidence to cater to the new demographics (or proves they shouldn't bother).
Now, I'm not going to claim that EA is going to release a AAA dating sim. That's not realistic. But I am saying that the level of industry investment in a given game type will, over time, tend toward equilibrium with the level of demand for that game type. Competition is fierce enough that the market tends to be saturated or nearly so.
Also, it doesn't take any sort of collusion to keep the industry all doing the same nonsense, just greed, which is why we're in the state we are now anyway. EA, Acti-Blizz, and Ubisoft only care about sales numbers. So they will take as few risks as possible to get those numbers, which means ignoring, or being ignorant to, any demo outside the 18-35 white male group.
My prediction is that, while slow, we'll see a shift over the next five years that incorporates the changing demographics, precisely because EA, Acti-Blizz, Ubisoft, new indies that hit the big-time, etc. are greedy and want to keep making money. The explosion of the indie scene has just started, but there is so much more experimentation than ever before in the industry's history that it makes me very hopeful for our future. We're in a very good spot as gamers
Well, I've taken up enough screen space here, so I think let this post be my closing statement :oP I'd love to read your thoughts though, if you would like to post them.
Happy gaming, all!
And what will prompt and/or hasten this shift over time? The very same gender/race discussions you claimed to be tired of!
Seriously though, game companies keep going out of business because they keep targeting the same overlapping demographics with the same games and budgets that are way too large. I think any discussions about trying something different in game development is a benefit to the industry as a whole. The louder, the better.
Also, if you think this demographic shift is inevitable, so are the conversations surrounding it. The fastest way to end these discussions, in that case, would be to get game companies to address these issues.
Wait, was I supposed to feel weird/bad after hearing Kathleen rate all those guys purely on their do-ability? Sorry, but I've got daughters so I hear that stuff ALL THE TIME.
From GAF to PATV, it's a small internet.
oranalandian on steam
So I made a US PSN account to buy games not on the EU/AU/NZ store (can still play them on my AU account WOOOO!) but you need a US credit card or US PSN voucher, and the only place you can buy them online charges you for the code to be e-mailed. So If anyone could message me a US PSN voucher for "Gift a Game to an Aussie Day" that would be much appreciated!
Thanks to everyone who has gifted to an Aussie or Kiwi today :-D