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Enough is enough - Social engineering among our peers [Flappy Bird]

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Posts

  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Quantronic Dreamgirl Registered User regular
    Well yeah, but even as someone whose bi I don't really have a problem with 'this is so gay'. If we're taking 'he said something that could be implied to be mean' as a reason to ban these people from whatever service they're using then god help us all because I don't think there'd be anyone left.

    Plus this doesn't change the fact that when your looking at the system it solves the whole 'random death threats across the internet' thing which is more or less universally not cool.
    While not quite on the level of death threats that sort of abuse is still very serious and normalizes the social ostracization of the affected group. Condoning it spreads the message that it is okay to abuse that group, and that has a far reaching social impact. Not to mention what the affected person would feel like when he or she discovers the legal code paints them as an acceptable target for abuse. There is no reason to accept this sort of behavior, claiming that it cannot be changed, while condemning its slightly more harmful form and trying to correct it. There are plenty of communities where such things don't fly, and they have plenty of members.

    I haven't personally seen random death threats in LoL, but I have encountered quite a few in DotA. I suspect this is primarily because I played far more games of the latter than the former.

    Yeah but now you're not talking about 'how to not make the internet full of shitheads' you're talking about actual wide spread social change.

    Naturally a self policing system doesn't help with social change, it still doesn't make it not effective.

  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    You're never going to make the internet even moderately less full of completely selfish and horrible trash.

    I think the people complaining about his app and complaining about him deleting it are trash. I think he's a fool for deleting it and giving a shit. Outside of a cease and desist from Nintendo there's no reason he should care in the least bit.

    To the problem of internet harassment, "Don't go on the internet", is laughably unrealistic. I don't have any kind of solution that I think would be the end all answer for it, because I don't think there is one, but the best he could do is keep his personal information personal, and his public information official. If you're going to put an app up on the app store then make up a name for that as a business and use business related twitter handles and email addresses.

    Let these places take the rage of your critics so that you, in the normal course of your day, personally don't have to see that shit when checking your mail and talking to friends/family. Let it go to a place you can ignore so you don't have to delete pages of ridiculous hate mail every time you check your email.

    Not that this would be foolproof, assholes on the internet are pretty resourceful and even if he kept changing email addresses and twitter handles to get away from this bullshit, I'm sure some jerk out there would find his new ones and the witch hunt would continue until they found someone else more 'deserving' of their ire.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    You mean taking control of your life and being a responsible adult? For shame, that's internet impossible, to even suggest as such is victim shaming and makes you a horrible person.

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  • Grey PaladinGrey Paladin Registered User regular
    Yeah but now you're not talking about 'how to not make the internet full of shitheads' you're talking about actual wide spread social change.

    Naturally a self policing system doesn't help with social change, it still doesn't make it not effective.
    I am not sure how you can separate the two. The internet is full of jerks because society is full of jerks. They rein in their behavior in meatspace because they fear the consequences. You can apply the same system to the internet in order to at least achieve parity with the more respectful meatspace environments.
    Viskod wrote: »
    You're never going to make the internet even moderately less full of completely selfish and horrible trash.
    You can restrict the ability of said biotrash to express themselves in undesirable ways though. The question is primarily how far you are willing to go and more importantly how far you should go.

    "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence
  • ShenShen Registered User regular
    I feel bad for the guy because he's unable to ignore stuff like this. I am confident that I could quite happily ignore the threats and collect the money, particularly while living in a completely different country than most of the people issuing the threats, but I am fully aware that not everyone is capable of doing that. It's like, it's sad when you hear about kids committing suicide over bullying at school, even though a lot of people get bullied and worse but are able to cope. This is the same kind of thing.

    It's just... $50k a day. That is a lot of scratch to give up, dang. Even if it was just for like a month, he'd be set for a decade or two.

    3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
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  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Quantronic Dreamgirl Registered User regular
    Yeah but now you're not talking about 'how to not make the internet full of shitheads' you're talking about actual wide spread social change.

    Naturally a self policing system doesn't help with social change, it still doesn't make it not effective.
    I am not sure how you can separate the two. The internet is full of jerks because society is full of jerks. They rein in their behavior in meatspace because they fear the consequences. You can apply the same system to the internet in order to at least achieve parity with the more respectful meatspace environments.
    Viskod wrote: »
    You're never going to make the internet even moderately less full of completely selfish and horrible trash.
    You can restrict the ability of said biotrash to express themselves in undesirable ways though. The question is primarily how far you are willing to go and more importantly how far you should go.

    There is absolutely two seperate issues in 'how do we make the internet less full of people talking shit' and 'changing societies opinion on what's not acceptable'.

  • PreciousBodilyFluidsPreciousBodilyFluids Registered User regular
    Shen wrote: »
    I feel bad for the guy because he's unable to ignore stuff like this. I am confident that I could quite happily ignore the threats and collect the money, particularly while living in a completely different country than most of the people issuing the threats, but I am fully aware that not everyone is capable of doing that. It's like, it's sad when you hear about kids committing suicide over bullying at school, even though a lot of people get bullied and worse but are able to cope. This is the same kind of thing.

    It's just... $50k a day. That is a lot of scratch to give up, dang. Even if it was just for like a month, he'd be set for a decade or two.

    Maybe he just enjoyed what he was doing, and the relentless abuse sucked away whatever enjoyment he got out of his work. Which I completely understand.

    I really don't see how the money is relevant here, nor the fact that others would not bend or break under abuse. The behaviour of the abusers is what should come under scrutiny, not the victim's coping abilities. It is perfectly understandable someone would be incredibly uncomfortable working and living under those circumstances.

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  • BubbyBubby Registered User regular
    edited February 2014
    Henroid wrote: »
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    If the $50K/day figures are accurate, while people shouldn't be dicks, I have about zero sympathy for him. I've been actually shot at (often, not just a one time thing) for ~$50K/year, so I'd gladly upgrade to people hurting my feels over the internet for several hundred times that much money.

    Honestly, I'd love to trade places with him.

    So the more income someone has, the more it's okay for people to issue threats and harass?
    Yeah, Twitter abuse is hard to deal with. I mean it's not like I could just delete the useless app from my phone in 2 seconds and console myself with my hypothetical mountains of cash or anything.

    Frankly I'd happily tolerate a shitload worse than some idiots tweeting threats that I don't even have to read to make my annual salary every single day.
    I can't check tweets anymore, the poors are mad at my massively successful App Store game and I get death threats whether I leave it up or take it down. Guess I'll leave it up and use today's 50k on a bodyguard and a solid gold handgun. #1%problems

    Turning a blind eye to the problem doesn't solve the problem.

    It's fairly simple: you ignore bullies. This goes back to elementary school, only it's even easier because said bullies have no physical presence. The guy got rich for doing practically nothing, I have little sympathy if he can't handle twitter trolls. I know professors who deal with worse every semester, because they actually have to deal with irate and stupid young people.

    As far as "solving the problem" goes, it's never going to happen. People are shit, always have been and always will be. Twitter and facebook gives them an easy way to be the purest version of themselves, and it's too late to change that. If society actually cared they'd put human decency ahead of technology, but they won't, and human interaction is only going to get more alien as the decades go by.

    Bubby on
  • ShenShen Registered User regular
    Shen wrote: »
    I feel bad for the guy because he's unable to ignore stuff like this. I am confident that I could quite happily ignore the threats and collect the money, particularly while living in a completely different country than most of the people issuing the threats, but I am fully aware that not everyone is capable of doing that. It's like, it's sad when you hear about kids committing suicide over bullying at school, even though a lot of people get bullied and worse but are able to cope. This is the same kind of thing.

    It's just... $50k a day. That is a lot of scratch to give up, dang. Even if it was just for like a month, he'd be set for a decade or two.

    Maybe he just enjoyed what he was doing, and the relentless abuse sucked away whatever enjoyment he got out of his work. Which I completely understand.

    I really don't see how the money is relevant here, nor the fact that others would not bend or break under abuse. The behaviour of the abusers is what should come under scrutiny, not the victim's coping abilities. It is perfectly understandable someone would be incredibly uncomfortable working and living under those circumstances.

    Mm? I'm agreeing that it's perfectly understandable and expressing sympathy for his situation, while ruminating on how I would react in the same position. I would agree that there should be stuff in place to restrict and punish the kind of threats he is being exposed to, but that's not the aspect of the conversation I was focusing on.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    edited February 2014
    You can restrict the ability of said biotrash to express themselves in undesirable ways though. The question is primarily how far you are willing to go and more importantly how far you should go.

    How? and I don't mean, hypothetically how, down the road, if society were better. I mean, practically right now, how. The only case I know of where someone stood before a jury accused of libel over twitter was the recent one with Courtney Love, and she won.

    I know a girl in St. Peterburg Florida was sentenced for stalking and harassment that lead to another teen killing herself, but her case was overturned and she was set free.

    Viskod on
    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
  • PreciousBodilyFluidsPreciousBodilyFluids Registered User regular
    Bubby wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    If the $50K/day figures are accurate, while people shouldn't be dicks, I have about zero sympathy for him. I've been actually shot at (often, not just a one time thing) for ~$50K/year, so I'd gladly upgrade to people hurting my feels over the internet for several hundred times that much money.

    Honestly, I'd love to trade places with him.

    So the more income someone has, the more it's okay for people to issue threats and harass?
    Yeah, Twitter abuse is hard to deal with. I mean it's not like I could just delete the useless app from my phone in 2 seconds and console myself with my hypothetical mountains of cash or anything.

    Frankly I'd happily tolerate a shitload worse than some idiots tweeting threats that I don't even have to read to make my annual salary every single day.
    I can't check tweets anymore, the poors are mad at my massively successful App Store game and I get death threats whether I leave it up or take it down. Guess I'll leave it up and use today's 50k on a bodyguard and a solid gold handgun. #1%problems

    Turning a blind eye to the problem doesn't solve the problem.

    It's fairly simple: you ignore bullies. This goes back to elementary school, only it's even easier because said bullies have no physical presence. The guy got rich for doing practically nothing, I have little sympathy if he can't handle twitter trolls. I know professors who deal with worse every semester, because they actually have to deal with irate and stupid young people.

    As far as "solving the problem" goes, it's never going to happen. People are shit, always have been and always will be. Twitter and facebook gives them an easy way to be the purest version of themselves, and it's too late to change that. If society actually cared they'd put human decency ahead of technology, but they won't, and human interaction is only going to get more alien as the decades go by.

    Ignoring bullies does not work. Anyone with any experience with that particular strategy can tell you that. Keeping your head down won't stop the abuse. It didn't work for anyone in elementary school, ever, and it will not work here. Teachers who suggest this are ignoring their own job, which is to provide a safe and stimulating learning environment. This includes coming down on bullies hard, involving parents etc.

    Again, what does money have to do with anything? What, after some level of success, death threats are just the natural price you pay? If you happen to have a family, threats to kill them also become part of the deal? Fuck that. You can be as cynical about human interaction as you want, but saying you have no sympathy for someone being abused just because he's more financially successful than you is so incredibly petty, and shows you are a big part of the problem you describe.

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  • Grey PaladinGrey Paladin Registered User regular
    edited February 2014
    Viskod wrote: »
    You can restrict the ability of said biotrash to express themselves in undesirable ways though. The question is primarily how far you are willing to go and more importantly how far you should go.

    How? and I don't mean, hypothetically how, down the road, if society were better. I mean, practically right now, how. The only case I know of where someone stood before a jury accused of libel over twitter was the recent one with Courtney Love, and she won.

    I know a girl in St. Peterburg Florida was sentenced for stalking and harassment that lead to another teen killing herself, but her case was overturned and she was set free.
    Claiming that it is flat out impossible to make the internet less toxic is very different from saying it is a long term project which might take many years to bear fruit. I essentially agree that on the short term it is very difficult to make a noticeable difference, but that does not means the struggle is not worthwhile. On the long term legislation is, as usual, the answer.

    In the short term business owners can implement harsher punishments for this sort of behavior and hire enough moderators as to increase the risk of getting caught to the level where it can serve as an effective deterrent. The primary problem with this approach is that currently this would mean paying money in order to drive paying customers away, and when given the choice between money and doing what is right business owners will generally go for the money.

    Grey Paladin on
    "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence
  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    " I essentially agree that on the short term it is very difficult to make a noticeable difference, but that does not means the struggle is not worthwhile."

    Yeah, kinda obvious really. You will never stop crime, but if you didn't try this world would be fuuuuuuucked.

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  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Quantronic Dreamgirl Registered User regular


    TB weighing in.

    Honestly not much of interest other than him mentioning he completely gets giving up the cash for some quiet. Though do be warned it turns into a rant on the mobile game market about half way through.

  • BubbyBubby Registered User regular
    edited February 2014
    Bubby wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    If the $50K/day figures are accurate, while people shouldn't be dicks, I have about zero sympathy for him. I've been actually shot at (often, not just a one time thing) for ~$50K/year, so I'd gladly upgrade to people hurting my feels over the internet for several hundred times that much money.

    Honestly, I'd love to trade places with him.

    So the more income someone has, the more it's okay for people to issue threats and harass?
    Yeah, Twitter abuse is hard to deal with. I mean it's not like I could just delete the useless app from my phone in 2 seconds and console myself with my hypothetical mountains of cash or anything.

    Frankly I'd happily tolerate a shitload worse than some idiots tweeting threats that I don't even have to read to make my annual salary every single day.
    I can't check tweets anymore, the poors are mad at my massively successful App Store game and I get death threats whether I leave it up or take it down. Guess I'll leave it up and use today's 50k on a bodyguard and a solid gold handgun. #1%problems

    Turning a blind eye to the problem doesn't solve the problem.

    It's fairly simple: you ignore bullies. This goes back to elementary school, only it's even easier because said bullies have no physical presence. The guy got rich for doing practically nothing, I have little sympathy if he can't handle twitter trolls. I know professors who deal with worse every semester, because they actually have to deal with irate and stupid young people.

    As far as "solving the problem" goes, it's never going to happen. People are shit, always have been and always will be. Twitter and facebook gives them an easy way to be the purest version of themselves, and it's too late to change that. If society actually cared they'd put human decency ahead of technology, but they won't, and human interaction is only going to get more alien as the decades go by.

    Ignoring bullies does not work. Anyone with any experience with that particular strategy can tell you that. Keeping your head down won't stop the abuse. It didn't work for anyone in elementary school, ever, and it will not work here. Teachers who suggest this are ignoring their own job, which is to provide a safe and stimulating learning environment. This includes coming down on bullies hard, involving parents etc.

    Again, what does money have to do with anything? What, after some level of success, death threats are just the natural price you pay? If you happen to have a family, threats to kill them also become part of the deal? Fuck that. You can be as cynical about human interaction as you want, but saying you have no sympathy for someone being abused just because he's more financially successful than you is so incredibly petty, and shows you are a big part of the problem you describe.

    In school I hit or threatened the people that picked on me, and that got them to stop. How do you propose doing that to Twitter users? You can't. I'd love to hear you come up with a better solution than ignoring it.

    And I'm not petty, I'm honest. Where's the outcry for people who get paid shit who are abused in person? I'm not dismissing the effect of online abuse, but the fact is that if you deal with the public to any extent and become successful, it will happen. It's common sense. It's extremely offensive that you're saying I'm part of the problem, I'm trying to have a conversation and you've already insulted me. Not exactly practicing what you preach.

    Bubby on
  • PreciousBodilyFluidsPreciousBodilyFluids Registered User regular
    edited February 2014
    Bubby wrote: »
    Bubby wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    If the $50K/day figures are accurate, while people shouldn't be dicks, I have about zero sympathy for him. I've been actually shot at (often, not just a one time thing) for ~$50K/year, so I'd gladly upgrade to people hurting my feels over the internet for several hundred times that much money.

    Honestly, I'd love to trade places with him.

    So the more income someone has, the more it's okay for people to issue threats and harass?
    Yeah, Twitter abuse is hard to deal with. I mean it's not like I could just delete the useless app from my phone in 2 seconds and console myself with my hypothetical mountains of cash or anything.

    Frankly I'd happily tolerate a shitload worse than some idiots tweeting threats that I don't even have to read to make my annual salary every single day.
    I can't check tweets anymore, the poors are mad at my massively successful App Store game and I get death threats whether I leave it up or take it down. Guess I'll leave it up and use today's 50k on a bodyguard and a solid gold handgun. #1%problems

    Turning a blind eye to the problem doesn't solve the problem.

    It's fairly simple: you ignore bullies. This goes back to elementary school, only it's even easier because said bullies have no physical presence. The guy got rich for doing practically nothing, I have little sympathy if he can't handle twitter trolls. I know professors who deal with worse every semester, because they actually have to deal with irate and stupid young people.

    As far as "solving the problem" goes, it's never going to happen. People are shit, always have been and always will be. Twitter and facebook gives them an easy way to be the purest version of themselves, and it's too late to change that. If society actually cared they'd put human decency ahead of technology, but they won't, and human interaction is only going to get more alien as the decades go by.

    Ignoring bullies does not work. Anyone with any experience with that particular strategy can tell you that. Keeping your head down won't stop the abuse. It didn't work for anyone in elementary school, ever, and it will not work here. Teachers who suggest this are ignoring their own job, which is to provide a safe and stimulating learning environment. This includes coming down on bullies hard, involving parents etc.

    Again, what does money have to do with anything? What, after some level of success, death threats are just the natural price you pay? If you happen to have a family, threats to kill them also become part of the deal? Fuck that. You can be as cynical about human interaction as you want, but saying you have no sympathy for someone being abused just because he's more financially successful than you is so incredibly petty, and shows you are a big part of the problem you describe.

    In school I hit or threatened the people that picked on me, and that got them to stop. How do you propose doing that to Twitter users? You can't. I'd love to hear you come up with a better solution than ignoring it.

    Ignoring it isn't even a solution at all, so literally anything would be better.

    But I already proposed one; better legislation and enforcement concerning harassment and threats online. I already linked to a case where actual arrests where made. I think in most cases, a police officer knocking on a door and/or a fine would be sufficient.

    Yes yes, the internet is full of thousands of assholes and you can't logistically catch 'em all. You won't have to. Start by arresting the very worst abusers, like the horrible people mentioned in that article. Law enforcement can work down from there to the best of their abilities. A serious enforcement like that would have an incredible preventative function. Suddenly it becomes apparent that there are actually consequences to threatening people, even on the internet! Even when only a fraction of abusers (and in many cases, their parents) get slapped on the wrist/fined by the law, the overall message of "this shit has consequences" will scare away many more bitter white teenagers from ruining someone's life (and hopefully some of the hateful adults too).

    Even if this method would have an absolutely minimal impact, it would still be better than "ignoring it"
    And I'm not petty, I'm honest. Where's the outcry for people who get paid shit who are abused in person? I'm not dismissing the effect of online abuse, but the fact is that if you deal with the public to any extent and become successful, it will happen. It's common sense. It's extremely offensive that you're saying I'm part of the problem, I'm trying to have a conversation and you've already insulted me. Not exactly practicing what you preach.

    I do not believe I have in any way threatened you, so I don't see how I'm not practicing what I preach.

    You said you had no sympathy for him because he made a lot of money with what you perceive as very little work. How is that not petty? How is anyone's pay grade even relevant to whether or not they deserve sympathy when confronted with serious abuse? I could maybe understand this sentiment if the money had been gained from practices that hurt others, but this isn't the case at all. Even if the horrible internet reaction was entirely predictable, I don't see why this means he deserves no sympathy? It's still horrible dude.

    PreciousBodilyFluids on
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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    For the record, Nintendo never gave a shit.
    In an email to The Wall Street Journal, Nintendo spokesman Yasuhiro Minagawa on Monday reiterated previous company statements that the Japanese videogame giant hasn’t complained at all about Flappy Bird’s similarities to Nintendo’s original “Super Mario Bros.”

    “While we usually do not comment on the rumors and speculations, we have already denied the speculation” last week, he said.

    http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/02/10/no-complaints-about-flappy-bird-nintendo-says/

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  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    The important thing here is not what the dude did or how much money he made or how he should have dealt with the asshats.

    But nothing justifies online lynch mobs and violent threats. Nothing. Ever. Not even if the target is a convicted criminal or some horrible person.

    That's the important thing.

    BTW, the world is not populated solely by western people who're used to see this kind of shit in their lives, on TV, so one.. It's quite possible that the dude is taking this abuse a billion times harder than any western person would. So stop arguing that he's lucky or silly stuff like that.

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  • programjunkieprogramjunkie Registered User regular
    You said you had no sympathy for him because he made a lot of money with what you perceive as very little work. How is that not petty? How is anyone's pay grade even relevant to whether or not they deserve sympathy when confronted with serious abuse? I could maybe understand this sentiment if the money had been gained from practices that hurt others, but this isn't the case at all. Even if the horrible internet reaction was entirely predictable, I don't see why this means he deserves no sympathy? It's still horrible dude.

    Just to be clear, despite the fact he deserves the money (insofar as any rumors about botting are untrue), it isn't a perception of little work, it's an indisputable reality of little work for a lot of money. That's fine. People have gotten more money for less socially useful things.

    And the reason that I, for example, have little sympathy for him is because I'm sure, given the choice, literally billions of people would trade places with him in a heartbeat. I have a job, and I'd love to get paid to do whatever I want under the condition my social media page would be filled with people telling me to kill myself.

    And yeah, a subsistence farmer in Mauritania would do the same.

    I mean, it sucks he doesn't like it, so I do have a little sympathy, but are you really saying that you wouldn't walk into a shit storm of twitter abuse, which you don't even have to read, for $50k/day?

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    I'm actually researching this for work... it turns out Nguyen got hit with stuff beyond just random Internet gripers, such as a widely-quoted blogger saying there's no way his app would have gotten popular without the help of bots, and tech sites continuing to email him for comment after he publicly said he wanted to be left alone. The guy was undoubtedly under a lot of pressure he wasn't prepared for.

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  • PreciousBodilyFluidsPreciousBodilyFluids Registered User regular
    edited February 2014
    You said you had no sympathy for him because he made a lot of money with what you perceive as very little work. How is that not petty? How is anyone's pay grade even relevant to whether or not they deserve sympathy when confronted with serious abuse? I could maybe understand this sentiment if the money had been gained from practices that hurt others, but this isn't the case at all. Even if the horrible internet reaction was entirely predictable, I don't see why this means he deserves no sympathy? It's still horrible dude.

    Just to be clear, despite the fact he deserves the money (insofar as any rumors about botting are untrue), it isn't a perception of little work, it's an indisputable reality of little work for a lot of money. That's fine. People have gotten more money for less socially useful things.

    And the reason that I, for example, have little sympathy for him is because I'm sure, given the choice, literally billions of people would trade places with him in a heartbeat. I have a job, and I'd love to get paid to do whatever I want under the condition my social media page would be filled with people telling me to kill myself.

    And yeah, a subsistence farmer in Mauritania would do the same.

    I mean, it sucks he doesn't like it, so I do have a little sympathy, but are you really saying that you wouldn't walk into a shit storm of twitter abuse, which you don't even have to read, for $50k/day?

    You are spectacularly missing the point.

    First of all; the dude is an indie game developer. Twitter is pretty much an essential marketing tool for him. So yes, he can't as easily avoid it.

    Secondly, this sort of trade-off should not exist. It's terrible and we should work towards getting rid of it. The money he makes is irrelevant, this sort of abuse is terrible and steps need to be taken to stop this thing from happening in general. This is of course just the latest case in a long line of people being harassed and threatened online. Sometimes for making games. Sometimes for having opinions about games as a woman. Sometimes for being a feminist.

    It's great that you would switch places with him, but the abuse isn't part of the job description here. That's the issue. He's not getting rich by being threatened. He made a thing, it became successful, and then hundreds of people started sending him death threats. That others would not be as strongly affected by this is completely irrelevant. It's understandable that he hates it. It's never what he wanted or expected and he feels overwhelmed and threatened. Because he is. It's understandable if he wishes to not put up with that any longer. He shouldn't have to.

    But really, ask yourself this: Why are you so focused on putting the victim under scrutiny, rather than the abusers?

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  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    edited February 2014
    You said you had no sympathy for him because he made a lot of money with what you perceive as very little work. How is that not petty? How is anyone's pay grade even relevant to whether or not they deserve sympathy when confronted with serious abuse? I could maybe understand this sentiment if the money had been gained from practices that hurt others, but this isn't the case at all. Even if the horrible internet reaction was entirely predictable, I don't see why this means he deserves no sympathy? It's still horrible dude.

    Just to be clear, despite the fact he deserves the money (insofar as any rumors about botting are untrue), it isn't a perception of little work, it's an indisputable reality of little work for a lot of money. That's fine. People have gotten more money for less socially useful things.

    And the reason that I, for example, have little sympathy for him is because I'm sure, given the choice, literally billions of people would trade places with him in a heartbeat. I have a job, and I'd love to get paid to do whatever I want under the condition my social media page would be filled with people telling me to kill myself.

    And yeah, a subsistence farmer in Mauritania would do the same.

    I mean, it sucks he doesn't like it, so I do have a little sympathy, but are you really saying that you wouldn't walk into a shit storm of twitter abuse, which you don't even have to read, for $50k/day?

    Your personal beliefs on the matter of the value proposition here are not the point. Clearly this guy didn't feel it was worth it. If the MONEY!!! of it all is a stumbling block, because you would take that amount of money for most anything, what does it say to you that somebody else in that position found it too difficult to endure despite the unquestionable and virtuous appeal of all that sweet cash? To what brink of emotional distress would you need to be at before you walked away? Because that's the touchstone of relevance here.

    You're trying to get into the situation when you should be more concerned with why this person responded as they did, not how they should have responded if they weren't such delicate flowers, unable to withstand even a few days of horrifying inhuman bile.

    I mean, I guess he had all that money to comfort him though.

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  • ShatterShockShatterShock Registered User regular
    Yes yes, the internet is full of thousands of assholes and you can't logistically catch 'em all. You won't have to. Start by arresting the very worst abusers, like the horrible people mentioned in that article. Law enforcement can work down from there to the best of their abilities. A serious enforcement like that would have an incredible preventative function. Suddenly it becomes apparent that there are actually consequences to threatening people, even on the internet! Even when only a fraction of abusers (and in many cases, their parents) get slapped on the wrist/fined by the law, the overall message of "this shit has consequences" will scare away many more bitter white teenagers from ruining someone's life (and hopefully some of the hateful adults too).

    You mean like how a few people being made an example of by the recording industry caused the end of music piracy.

    Also, "bitter white teenagers?" Really?

  • PreciousBodilyFluidsPreciousBodilyFluids Registered User regular
    edited February 2014
    Yes yes, the internet is full of thousands of assholes and you can't logistically catch 'em all. You won't have to. Start by arresting the very worst abusers, like the horrible people mentioned in that article. Law enforcement can work down from there to the best of their abilities. A serious enforcement like that would have an incredible preventative function. Suddenly it becomes apparent that there are actually consequences to threatening people, even on the internet! Even when only a fraction of abusers (and in many cases, their parents) get slapped on the wrist/fined by the law, the overall message of "this shit has consequences" will scare away many more bitter white teenagers from ruining someone's life (and hopefully some of the hateful adults too).

    You mean like how a few people being made an example of by the recording industry caused the end of music piracy.

    I'm not talking about the record industry, or any industry. I'm talking about legislation and enforcement by their respective government bodies. I'm not talking about a few people getting sued by a few corporations. I'm talking about bigger and better cybercrime departments at police stations everywhere, getting to as many of these cases as they can. You could indeed make similar arguments for better legislation and enforcement regarding piracy, but this thread isn't about that.

    Also, "bitter white teenagers?" Really?

    Hopefully some of the adults too.

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  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    Hey anyone remember that teen who threatened to shoot up that grade school and got arrested?

    Anyone then remember how it turned into some social outcry about "fuck da police" and how he was just a kid and haven't we all made mistakes!

    No? Me neither.


    Also anyone trying to use race in this is legitimately being a worthless goose. Unsurprisingly internet asshole surpasses race, gender and social standing. It is the great equalizer right up there with death..

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  • KryhsKryhs Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Community managers also need to crack down with use of their authority. It's time to discard that, "Speak pleasantly to any customer regardless of their behavior," crap. "ZOMG BLIZZ I WILL KILL YOU" should not be met with, "I'm sorry you feel that way." It should be met with, "You just made a threat. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out." Take away their toys.

    This is my favorite part of the OP (sorry, I'm a little late). People need to be treated the way they *deserve* to be treated, and this paragraph is spot on. Embarrassment is a HUGE deterrent that we need to utilize far, far more often.

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  • The SauceThe Sauce Fleur de Alys Registered User regular
    Hey anyone remember that teen who threatened to shoot up that grade school and got arrested?

    Anyone then remember how it turned into some social outcry about "fuck da police" and how he was just a kid and haven't we all made mistakes!

    No? Me neither.
    I knew someone was going to bring that up.

    That scenario caused an outcry because it clearly wasn't a threat.

    People are opposed to threats. People are also opposed to the law coming down on a kid for a not-threat.

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  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    So then you draw make believe lines in your own head as to whats acceptable and what isn't?

    But then you get people who think what he did was completely unacceptable and .. oh wait, thats what you're doing right now.

    So your unacceptable is fine but other peoples unacceptable needs to be changed.

    Hello sliding standards! Either all threats or no threats, you can't possibly have it both ways and have people agree. Because as far as all those goofy tweets he got, those are all clearly not threats to anyone who has been online for more then five minutes and understands the internet is full of assholes.

    Which it is. There should be a checkbox and a little terms of service or something you had to read to get online to understand this.

    I, personally, think that kid got what he deserved and they were completely right in what they did. But it changed nothing, and not everyone agreed that it was right or wrong, so it was a complete waste of time in the social sense.

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  • AvalonGuardAvalonGuard And that's why they call me Drilltooth! Registered User regular
    So then you draw make believe lines in your own head as to whats acceptable and what isn't?

    But then you get people who think what he did was completely unacceptable and .. oh wait, thats what you're doing right now.

    So your unacceptable is fine but other peoples unacceptable needs to be changed.

    Hello sliding standards! Either all threats or no threats, you can't possibly have it both ways and have people agree. Because as far as all those goofy tweets he got, those are all clearly not threats to anyone who has been online for more then five minutes and understands the internet is full of assholes.

    Which it is. There should be a checkbox and a little terms of service or something you had to read to get online to understand this.

    I, personally, think that kid got what he deserved and they were completely right in what they did. But it changed nothing, and not everyone agreed that it was right or wrong, so it was a complete waste of time in the social sense.

    The reaction of the police to arrest a teen was overblown. That kid needed perspective and/or help, not time in a cell.

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  • AvalonGuardAvalonGuard And that's why they call me Drilltooth! Registered User regular
    Also, zero tolerance is a really bad policy to enact. Justice and mercy, man. You need a human element.

    Not going to touch your sliding standards comment.

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  • RubycatRubycat Registered User regular
    edited February 2014
    The kid also didn't straight up harass/threaten anyone with his comment. It was a stupid comment none the less, but its no where near a level of straight up posting about how someone should kill themselves, or how they should be murdered. or how that person is going to kill them.

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  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    Extrapolate this Flappy Bird business to imagine how terrible people would be to the creator of the pet rock if it was just invented today.

  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    Yes yes, the internet is full of thousands of assholes and you can't logistically catch 'em all. You won't have to. Start by arresting the very worst abusers, like the horrible people mentioned in that article. Law enforcement can work down from there to the best of their abilities. A serious enforcement like that would have an incredible preventative function. Suddenly it becomes apparent that there are actually consequences to threatening people, even on the internet! Even when only a fraction of abusers (and in many cases, their parents) get slapped on the wrist/fined by the law, the overall message of "this shit has consequences" will scare away many more bitter white teenagers from ruining someone's life (and hopefully some of the hateful adults too).

    You mean like how a few people being made an example of by the recording industry caused the end of music piracy.

    I'm not talking about the record industry, or any industry. I'm talking about legislation and enforcement by their respective government bodies. I'm not talking about a few people getting sued by a few corporations. I'm talking about bigger and better cybercrime departments at police stations everywhere, getting to as many of these cases as they can. You could indeed make similar arguments for better legislation and enforcement regarding piracy, but this thread isn't about that.

    Also, "bitter white teenagers?" Really?

    Hopefully some of the adults too.

    Think you missed the point of his objection there...
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    I'm actually researching this for work... it turns out Nguyen got hit with stuff beyond just random Internet gripers, such as a widely-quoted blogger saying there's no way his app would have gotten popular without the help of bots, and tech sites continuing to email him for comment after he publicly said he wanted to be left alone. The guy was undoubtedly under a lot of pressure he wasn't prepared for.

    What is the story behind the bots? I don't think I've heard about that before.

  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    People trying to accuse him of farming his spot on the top 10 lists with bots rather than it organically making its way up there, even though there's absolutely no evidence indicating as much outside of it being a game that "doesn't deserve" to be on the top 10 lists.

  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    Oh, never played it, but just assumed things like IGN having an article about it every single day led to it being so popular.

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  • yossarian_livesyossarian_lives Registered User regular
    edited February 2014
    The victim blaming in this thread is disgusting and the people engaging in it are being geese. Bullies made my life a living hell for a number of years and it took just as long to get over it. I don't give a fuck if you can't relate or think such abuse can be easily shrugged off. This kind of shit ruins lives. More to the point, Nguyen doesn't deserve the harassment. It is not his fault and the bad behavior of his tormentors should be condemned, not his ability to cope with overwhelming negativity being heaped on his life by random assholes on the internet.

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  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    Zero tolerance is one of the worst ideas to come out of the human mind in a long time. It rarely solves the problem in question, and in almost every case I've ever seen does more harm than good as it catches up edge cases in it's dragnet. It hasn't worked for: Drugs, fighting in schools, bullying, cheating on tests, or any number of ridiculous human behaviors. Why would it work now?

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    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    You mean taking control of your life and being a responsible adult? For shame, that's internet impossible, to even suggest as such is victim shaming and makes you a horrible person.

    Because places like Reddit or 4Chan have never gone on internet witch hunts to track people down, amirite? I'm almost insulted that you would even imply that anyone who tries to put themselves out there should just expect to be shit on, and is in fact the responsible party for not being a "responsible adult".

    In fact, I am insulted by that. It's insulting. I'm not even going to say goosey, it's flat insulting.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • programjunkieprogramjunkie Registered User regular
    But really, ask yourself this: Why are you so focused on putting the victim under scrutiny, rather than the abusers?

    They are dicks, but there isn't much to say about them. It's just terrible someone would throw away so much money because they didn't understand you didn't have to check your twitter.

    Also, why are you so focused on being racist in this thread? Just sayin'.

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  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    I would rather live in a world where I have to tolerate the occasional jerk being mean to me than live in one where I can be arrested for hurting somebody's feelings.
    p.s. democracy is dumb

    And yet, so much better than the alternatives. That is, unless you get to be a part of said 'small elite.'

    The next time you go to a restaurant, pick up your cutlery and tell your table server that you're going to cut their throat. When the police come, you'll find out that - in fact - you already live in a world that doesn't tolerate threats, even if you do it to someone trying to do their job & getting paid.
    Being paid $50K/day to not use twitter is not a bad deal, and I really don't get the arguments that it is. I'm not going to compare that to any actually bad things, because it's literally one of the best jobs in the entire world.

    He was paid for his game, not paid for dealing with people being retarded shitheads.

    Personally, I'd consider 50 grand to be an absolutely terrible 'deal' as compensation for being permanently excluded from the newest layer of human interaction - human interaction being the core of why we even have things like an economy / money in the first place, and why things are even worthwhile to do.

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