Dealing With Terrorist States (Iran Hostage Thread)

LondonBridge

nexuscrawler wrote: »

Sentry wrote: »

Iranian Eye for the British Guy?

Yet ironically they apparently decided to dress the woman up like a parking cone

Apparently the fitness standards of the British military is pretty low as that girl needs some PT!

Thanatos

So, has anyone who knows what they're talking about a bit better than I do hypothesized that this whole thing could be a result of a power struggle between the President and Ayatollah?

Tastyfish

nexuscrawler wrote: »

Sentry wrote: »

Iranian Eye for the British Guy?

Yet ironically they apparently decided to dress the woman up like a parking cone

The decor in the room they used for the video confessions was hideous though - orange floral print curtains that looked like they came right out of the 70s.

Gorak

Thanatos wrote: »

So, has anyone who knows what they're talking about a bit better than I do hypothesized that this whole thing could be a result of a power struggle between the President and Ayatollah?

It was remarkably convenient for Ahmadinejad publicity wise.

He get's to solve a diplomatic issue, have pictures of himself next to smiling white people plastered all over the media, get's to make a grand gesture at a major muslim festival, calls it an "easter gift" to make christians see how reasonable he is and gets to see the US and UK flounder while they try to think of a way to make it look like they'd planned this all along.

Everything's coming up Ahmadinejad.

Sentry

Gorak wrote: »

Thanatos wrote: »

So, has anyone who knows what they're talking about a bit better than I do hypothesized that this whole thing could be a result of a power struggle between the President and Ayatollah?

It was remarkably convenient for Ahmadinejad publicity wise.

He get's to solve a diplomatic issue, have pictures of himself next to smiling white people plastered all over the media, get's to make a grand gesture at a major muslim festival, calls it an "easter gift" to make christians see how reasonable he is and gets to see the US and UK flounder while they try to think of a way to make it look like they'd planned this all along.

Everything's coming up Ahmadinejad.

Yeah... if Saddam had known how to play this game so well, things might have gone differently.

Although, Ahmadinejad might be misunderestimating Captain Learning-Disability over there in the Oval Office...

Andrew_Jay

Gorak wrote: »

. . . calls it an "easter gift" . . .

Yeah, I noticed that he fit that in there as well - though I found it funny because he referred to it as "the passing of Christ", like he had had cancer or something.

Shalewind

nexuscrawler wrote: »

Sentry wrote: »

Iranian Eye for the British Guy?

Yet ironically they apparently decided to dress the woman up like a parking cone

Hey now… Let’s be fair. It’s a parking cone with a sporty blue jacket.

Gorak

Gorak wrote:

and gets to see the US and UK flounder while they try to think of a way to make it look like they'd planned this all along.

I have just this second seen Tony Blair on BBC News 24 announce that "We have managed to secure the release of.... .....without any negotiations or concessions...."

Yeah, well done Tony. It's all down to you. Douche.

Coldred

Gorak wrote: »

Gorak wrote:

and gets to see the US and UK flounder while they try to think of a way to make it look like they'd planned this all along.

I have just this second seen Tony Blair on BBC News 24 announce that "We have managed to secure the release of.... .....without any negotiations or concessions...."

Yeah, well done Tony. It's all down to you. Douche.

Yes, because Tony always uses the royal "we".

[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6529431.stm][/url] wrote:

It is thought the British note included an offer to hold discussions to clarify the border line to avoid problems in future, says the BBC's Frances Harrison in Iran.

Mr Blair said new lines of communication had opened with Iran that it would be "sensible to pursue".

But he said the UK would not stand for attempts to get nuclear weapons or to support terrorism.

What a douche.

Gorak

Coldred wrote: »

[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6529431.stm][/url] wrote:

It is thought the British note included an offer to hold discussions to clarify the border line to avoid problems in future, says the BBC's Frances Harrison in Iran.

Mr Blair said new lines of communication had opened with Iran that it would be "sensible to pursue".

But he said the UK would not stand for attempts to get nuclear weapons or to support terrorism.

What a douche.

In the background, the diplomats are saying sensible things like "hey, let's have a chat about this whole border thing and make sure we don't step on each others' toes." That's great, it's an idea I've supported all along.

Publicly, he's grabbing all the political capital he can by making this a "we won't negotiate with these terrorists... ...our brave fighting men and women...." issue.

In fairness, I don't think he's particularly more douche-like than any other politician. Stil a douche. :P

Coldred

Gorak wrote: »

Coldred wrote: »

[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6529431.stm][/url] wrote:

It is thought the British note included an offer to hold discussions to clarify the border line to avoid problems in future, says the BBC's Frances Harrison in Iran.

Mr Blair said new lines of communication had opened with Iran that it would be "sensible to pursue".

But he said the UK would not stand for attempts to get nuclear weapons or to support terrorism.

What a douche.

In the background, the diplomats are saying sensible things like "hey, let's have a chat about this whole border thing and make sure we don't step on each others' toes." That's great, it's an idea I've supported all along.

Publicly, he's grabbing all the political capital he can by making this a "we won't negotiate with these terrorists... ...our brave fighting men and women...." issue.

In fairness, I don't think he's particularly more douche-like than any other politician. Stil a douche. :P

In fairness he didn't claim that he stepped into the situation and single-handedly secured the release of the prisoners either.

The prime minister said the government had pursued a "dual-track strategy" of remaining open to dialogue with Iran, while "mobilising international support and pressure".

"In my view it would be utterly naive to believe that our personnel would have been released unless both elements of the strategy had been present."

That sounds pretty fair to me.

Azio

Looking at those photos, it seems to me like those sailors were not so much captured as they were treated to a free, unscheduled holiday, with the minor caveat that they had to say a few things on TV. I've been on timeshare tours that were more unpleasant. Heck, if they hadn't been kidnapped by the Iranians they'd probably be scrubbing battleship anchors or something equally mundane.

Shalewind

Azio wrote: »

Looking at those photos, it seems to me like those sailors were not so much captured as they were treated to a free, unscheduled holiday, with the minor caveat that they had to say a few things on TV. I've been on timeshare tours that were less pleasant. Heck, if they hadn't been kidnapped by the Iranians they'd probably be scrubbing battleship anchors or something equally mundane.

I don’t think we need to downplay Iran’s part in this either or the fact that this was a military action. You can bet when they were captured it wasn’t all tea parties and gift bags. The situation was started and ended by Iran. It was a power play and it succeeded to some extent.

Doc

Sentry wrote: »

Iranian Eye for the British Guy?

I don't know if that would make a good show; Ahmadinejad is fond of his Members Only jacket.

gtrmp

Thanatos wrote: »

So, has anyone who knows what they're talking about a bit better than I do hypothesized that this whole thing could be a result of a power struggle between the President and Ayatollah?

Time magazine wrote:

As much as today's events appeared to be another episode of the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad show, the Iranian president's actual role in ending the crisis may have been less than meets the eye. The office of the presidency in Iran does not really have a say in matters of foreign policy. Indeed, British analysts were quick to credit another political personage for the resolution of the drama. John Williams, the former Director of News of Britain's Foreign Office, asserts that Dr. Ali Larijani, the secretary general of Iran's Supreme National Security Council, was more important in calling the shots. "It seems that around the weekend, Dr. Larijani decided to settle this and took control," says Williams. "He has proved himself a significant power broker, a man who, if he feels it is in Iran's best interests, will do business with the international community." Other observers warn against giving Larijani too much credit. Supreme Leader Ayatullah Ali Khamenei, they say, may have decided that Iran had squeezed as much advantage out of the situation as possible and simply got Larijani to do the legwork to end the crisis.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1606643,00.html

Emphasis mine.

Marty81

Azio wrote: »

Looking at those photos, it seems to me like those sailors were not so much captured as they were treated to a free, unscheduled holiday, with the minor caveat that they had to say a few things on TV. I've been on timeshare tours that were more unpleasant. Heck, if they hadn't been kidnapped by the Iranians they'd probably be scrubbing battleship anchors or something equally mundane.

Surprise, surprise. Looks like they weren't as well-treated as they were made out to be.

The BBC wrote:

Royal Navy personnel seized by Iran were blindfolded, bound and held in isolation during their 13 days in captivity, the crew have said, etc.

Coldred

Marty81 wrote: »

Azio wrote: »

Looking at those photos, it seems to me like those sailors were not so much captured as they were treated to a free, unscheduled holiday, with the minor caveat that they had to say a few things on TV. I've been on timeshare tours that were more unpleasant. Heck, if they hadn't been kidnapped by the Iranians they'd probably be scrubbing battleship anchors or something equally mundane.

Surprise, surprise. Looks like they weren't as well-treated as they were made out to be.

The BBC wrote:

Royal Navy personnel seized by Iran were blindfolded, bound and held in isolation during their 13 days in captivity, the crew have said, etc.

Clearly that's what the RN told them to say. But seriously it's no surprise, and the idea that they all went on a free holiday to Tehran was always going to be particularly naive. I mean c'mon of course the photos released by Iran were going to look all nice and friendly.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Thanatos

mcdermott wrote: »

Coldred wrote: »

Clearly that's what the RN told them to say. But seriously it's no surprise, and the idea that they all went on a free holiday to Tehran was always going to be particularly naive. I mean c'mon of course the photos released by Iran were going to look all nice and friendly.

The idea that military service personnel, especially multiple ones, would make statements against their country without at least the threat of mistreatment went beyond naive and into the fucking retarded. The idea that they'd do it without some actual mistreatment was right on the naive/retarded border.

Think about it: how well do we treat detainees...and you expect the Iranians are going to be particularly hospitable? The only reason they weren't treated worse than they were is probably due to fear of reprisal from the UK/US.

I was listening to an interview with one of them on the radio this morning. He said that they were told they could either give the statements about being in Iranian waters and go home in a few days, or they could refuse and go to prison for 7 years.

Savant

Not at all surprised by the coercion:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=447110&in_page_id=1766&ito=1490

Even when someone is playing within the rules in the interrogation game they can get away with some amount of messing with the head. This shows the rather unsurprising fact that Iran is sophisticated enough to solicit comments which could be edited into anti-British propaganda without resorting to physical torture.

I wonder if anyone will be daft enough to suggest that these tales of coercion were fabricated though. Other than Iran that is.

durandal4532

I found this post on Slacktivist to be interesting. I never understood the idea that these statements made any difference... why torture people to get them to say things that any sane person knows are contrary to their beliefs?