Gah, sorry about bailing after I got blown up. I had a massive audio glitch going on in my music player and my ears were about to start bleeding.
EDIT: I think it's time to sit back and take another break until things improve. The game is just in an awful shape right now and not terribly enjoyable.
The game isnt terrible. Its still plenty fun. But my enthusiasm is waning a bit. And it super easy to play single player games i can pause at any time to take care of kid shit that crops up every 15 minutes. Playing with people is taking a lot of my sleep time away and its catching up with me.
/old man
It's not that terrible, I'm just grumbling. I think I'm allowed a little leeway with being a bittervet. :rotate:
Get off my lawn!
Hey, could be worse: I played Eve Online for six years. Now THAT is straight up bittervet status.
Gah, sorry about bailing after I got blown up. I had a massive audio glitch going on in my music player and my ears were about to start bleeding.
EDIT: I think it's time to sit back and take another break until things improve. The game is just in an awful shape right now and not terribly enjoyable.
The game isnt terrible. Its still plenty fun. But my enthusiasm is waning a bit. And it super easy to play single player games i can pause at any time to take care of kid shit that crops up every 15 minutes. Playing with people is taking a lot of my sleep time away and its catching up with me.
/old man
It's not that terrible, I'm just grumbling. I think I'm allowed a little leeway with being a bittervet. :rotate:
Get off my lawn!
No! You get off my lawn!
But yeah, I'm looking at taking a break from any serious playing for at least the next week. Unfortunately, I activated my Premium time, so I have about 9 weeks of premium counting down and don't want to completely waste it, but probably no more than a game or two a day to get double XP.
And it's not because I think the game is unbearably bad right now, it's just that I'm pretty sick of the pinpoint-alpha meta still being the current major problem. PGI needs to at least rotate the OP problems instead of letting the same ones persist for so ridiculously long.
cicada's kinda like a beefed up jenner; the one that can mount an ecm seems nice
Yeah if I buy a new chassis I keep eyeing he Cicada. Maybe it will be worthwhile if Spiders loose their glitch-armor.
CDA-3M works as a laser boat or PPC sniper.
-3C works as an MG annoyance with an LPL
-2A is a MLAS boat
-2B can be a run a number of different ways. It's the hardest to build since it uses arm lasers, unfortunately.
X-5 just murders, it's really really good.
The 2A and 2B are functionally identical in building. One isn't harder to get a build for because the lasers are in the arms instead of the torso. And that being unfortunate is dependent on what you think of vertical tracking.
Not really, every other CDA can, if necessary, downarmor the arms to get some tonnage back. The 2B cannot afford to do this or else risk having all its weapons taken off to a fluke shot. Most of the time, IME a CDA is going to get taken out through its CT so you can afford to do this, but snapshots and inaccurate incoming fire do happen.
[CDA-2A]: 6xMLAS, AMS, 320XL, DHS, Endo, Ferro
You can't do anything like this in the -2B (leaving aside how it doesn't even have enough hardpoints for it), because it can't free up armor that way.
Eh, it's rare that I lose an arm in a Cicada anyway. They're just so small. If anything you can strip armor from the head, since nobody aims for headshots against lights.
Gah, sorry about bailing after I got blown up. I had a massive audio glitch going on in my music player and my ears were about to start bleeding.
EDIT: I think it's time to sit back and take another break until things improve. The game is just in an awful shape right now and not terribly enjoyable.
The game isnt terrible. Its still plenty fun. But my enthusiasm is waning a bit. And it super easy to play single player games i can pause at any time to take care of kid shit that crops up every 15 minutes. Playing with people is taking a lot of my sleep time away and its catching up with me.
/old man
It's not that terrible, I'm just grumbling. I think I'm allowed a little leeway with being a bittervet. :rotate:
Get off my lawn!
No! You get off my lawn!
But yeah, I'm looking at taking a break from any serious playing for at least the next week. Unfortunately, I activated my Premium time, so I have about 9 weeks of premium counting down and don't want to completely waste it, but probably no more than a game or two a day to get double XP.
And it's not because I think the game is unbearably bad right now, it's just that I'm pretty sick of the pinpoint-alpha meta still being the current major problem. PGI needs to at least rotate the OP problems instead of letting the same ones persist for so ridiculously long.
Pretty much. It's not like wtfbbq streak/lrmocalypse grade bad, but it's more just a lack of match variety. You can only shoot down so many PPC/Gauss Highlanders before it just kinda loses its charm.
Yea, ive got my time ticking down. Just cant really find the time/effort to play. Really need to grind a little cash too. Ah well. Tis a bit stale at the moment. Still fun when i do hop on to play.
Yeah I finally started driving my Firebrand mostly because it just easier to play that casually than my beloved hunchbacks. I have to try hard in my hunchies to make them work nowadays.
cicada's kinda like a beefed up jenner; the one that can mount an ecm seems nice
Yeah if I buy a new chassis I keep eyeing he Cicada. Maybe it will be worthwhile if Spiders loose their glitch-armor.
CDA-3M works as a laser boat or PPC sniper.
-3C works as an MG annoyance with an LPL
-2A is a MLAS boat
-2B can be a run a number of different ways. It's the hardest to build since it uses arm lasers, unfortunately.
X-5 just murders, it's really really good.
The 2A and 2B are functionally identical in building. One isn't harder to get a build for because the lasers are in the arms instead of the torso. And that being unfortunate is dependent on what you think of vertical tracking.
Not really, every other CDA can, if necessary, downarmor the arms to get some tonnage back. The 2B cannot afford to do this or else risk having all its weapons taken off to a fluke shot. Most of the time, IME a CDA is going to get taken out through its CT so you can afford to do this, but snapshots and inaccurate incoming fire do happen.
[CDA-2A]: 6xMLAS, AMS, 320XL, DHS, Endo, Ferro
You can't do anything like this in the -2B (leaving aside how it doesn't even have enough hardpoints for it), because it can't free up armor that way.
Which is more or less directly inferior. You generally need to downgrade the engine on the -2B to make weight on a comparable build. (Me personally? I just ran it with an XL280, 2 ERPPCs+1SLAS for cleanup and called it a day)
No you don't?
[CDA-2B]: 4xSPLS, LLAS, 340XL, DHS, Endo, Ferro
Further reach. 7.5 less on the firepower. Throw some Mlas instead of the Spulse and it's only 1 firepower less. Downgrade to a 325 to fill out the DHS if it runs hot, or put on the AMS (the 340 puts you at 151/kph, so AMS is pretty phhbbtt unless you're standing around in the open).
A whopping 6 (6!) armor shaved off. There is literally no difference in the build you can place on them save for the 2B having one less energy hardpoint.
EDIT: The 2A is also completely fucked by hills. The 2B is not. That's the point of the different chassis. Tradeoffs. You lose the whole expendable arms thing for vertical tracking. If that's not worth it to you, that's your call, but that doesn't mean the 2B is somehow unable to run proper builds.
so, what was the issue with quad ac/2s exactly? and did whatever weird workaround they introduced clear it up?
The issue was they were balanced and nice and there was no issue with them so PGI added ghost heat to them because they are silly, silly people, but for a while players were silly and forgot PGI are silly and actually thought maybe it was unintentional.
cicada's kinda like a beefed up jenner; the one that can mount an ecm seems nice
Yeah if I buy a new chassis I keep eyeing he Cicada. Maybe it will be worthwhile if Spiders loose their glitch-armor.
CDA-3M works as a laser boat or PPC sniper.
-3C works as an MG annoyance with an LPL
-2A is a MLAS boat
-2B can be a run a number of different ways. It's the hardest to build since it uses arm lasers, unfortunately.
X-5 just murders, it's really really good.
The 2A and 2B are functionally identical in building. One isn't harder to get a build for because the lasers are in the arms instead of the torso. And that being unfortunate is dependent on what you think of vertical tracking.
Not really, every other CDA can, if necessary, downarmor the arms to get some tonnage back. The 2B cannot afford to do this or else risk having all its weapons taken off to a fluke shot. Most of the time, IME a CDA is going to get taken out through its CT so you can afford to do this, but snapshots and inaccurate incoming fire do happen.
[CDA-2A]: 6xMLAS, AMS, 320XL, DHS, Endo, Ferro
You can't do anything like this in the -2B (leaving aside how it doesn't even have enough hardpoints for it), because it can't free up armor that way.
Which is more or less directly inferior. You generally need to downgrade the engine on the -2B to make weight on a comparable build. (Me personally? I just ran it with an XL280, 2 ERPPCs+1SLAS for cleanup and called it a day)
No you don't?
[CDA-2B]: 4xSPLS, LLAS, 340XL, DHS, Endo, Ferro
Further reach. 7.5 less on the firepower. Throw some Mlas instead of the Spulse and it's only 1 firepower less. Downgrade to a 325 to fill out the DHS if it runs hot, or put on the AMS (the 340 puts you at 151/kph, so AMS is pretty phhbbtt unless you're standing around in the open).
A whopping 6 (6!) armor shaved off. There is literally no difference in the build you can place on them save for the 2B having one less energy hardpoint.
EDIT: The 2A is also completely fucked by hills. The 2B is not. That's the point of the different chassis. Tradeoffs. You lose the whole expendable arms thing for vertical tracking. If that's not worth it to you, that's your call, but that doesn't mean the 2B is somehow unable to run proper builds.
I apologize, but I'm not even going to vaguely mince words here: That build is not good compared to the straight up 6xMLAS CDA-2A. Even with various mods (drop to 325, take MLAS, fill out DHS), you still have less DPS, a weaker alpha, and no AMS to help your team (it isn't just for you, the AMS umbrella is real). The only thing you get is the ability to aim up and a very light ability to poke with a single LLAS. That is a terrible trade.
The extra hardpoint and the half ton you can easily shave off the 2A's arms ends up mattering quite a bit.
cicada's kinda like a beefed up jenner; the one that can mount an ecm seems nice
Yeah if I buy a new chassis I keep eyeing he Cicada. Maybe it will be worthwhile if Spiders loose their glitch-armor.
CDA-3M works as a laser boat or PPC sniper.
-3C works as an MG annoyance with an LPL
-2A is a MLAS boat
-2B can be a run a number of different ways. It's the hardest to build since it uses arm lasers, unfortunately.
X-5 just murders, it's really really good.
The 2A and 2B are functionally identical in building. One isn't harder to get a build for because the lasers are in the arms instead of the torso. And that being unfortunate is dependent on what you think of vertical tracking.
Not really, every other CDA can, if necessary, downarmor the arms to get some tonnage back. The 2B cannot afford to do this or else risk having all its weapons taken off to a fluke shot. Most of the time, IME a CDA is going to get taken out through its CT so you can afford to do this, but snapshots and inaccurate incoming fire do happen.
[CDA-2A]: 6xMLAS, AMS, 320XL, DHS, Endo, Ferro
You can't do anything like this in the -2B (leaving aside how it doesn't even have enough hardpoints for it), because it can't free up armor that way.
Which is more or less directly inferior. You generally need to downgrade the engine on the -2B to make weight on a comparable build. (Me personally? I just ran it with an XL280, 2 ERPPCs+1SLAS for cleanup and called it a day)
No you don't?
[CDA-2B]: 4xSPLS, LLAS, 340XL, DHS, Endo, Ferro
Further reach. 7.5 less on the firepower. Throw some Mlas instead of the Spulse and it's only 1 firepower less. Downgrade to a 325 to fill out the DHS if it runs hot, or put on the AMS (the 340 puts you at 151/kph, so AMS is pretty phhbbtt unless you're standing around in the open).
A whopping 6 (6!) armor shaved off. There is literally no difference in the build you can place on them save for the 2B having one less energy hardpoint.
EDIT: The 2A is also completely fucked by hills. The 2B is not. That's the point of the different chassis. Tradeoffs. You lose the whole expendable arms thing for vertical tracking. If that's not worth it to you, that's your call, but that doesn't mean the 2B is somehow unable to run proper builds.
I apologize, but I'm not even going to vaguely mince words here: That build is not good compared to the straight up 6xMLAS CDA-2A. Even with various mods (drop to 325, take MLAS, fill out DHS), you still have less DPS, a weaker alpha, and no AMS to help your team (it isn't just for you, the AMS umbrella is real). The only thing you get is the ability to aim up and a very light ability to poke with a single LLAS. That is a terrible trade.
The extra hardpoint and the half ton you can easily shave off the 2A's arms ends up mattering quite a bit.
The only thing the 2B can't do is utilize that 6th energy slot. That negates the half ton you need to shave off. Theres your 1.5 tons for AMS. ALL you lose is the energy point. You can easily make a competitive 2B. That's been the issue. You don't seem to realize that. Your original statement was how it was difficult to build. No, no it isn't. And if you can't see the benefit of vertical tracking or being able to hit at 600 range, then that's on you. But they are benefits.
So, flat out, you're not seeing the sum of the parts in a build on a 2B and just going "1 less energy and no free torso shields blaaaaah useless." No, wrong, and so so wrong.
cicada's kinda like a beefed up jenner; the one that can mount an ecm seems nice
Yeah if I buy a new chassis I keep eyeing he Cicada. Maybe it will be worthwhile if Spiders loose their glitch-armor.
CDA-3M works as a laser boat or PPC sniper.
-3C works as an MG annoyance with an LPL
-2A is a MLAS boat
-2B can be a run a number of different ways. It's the hardest to build since it uses arm lasers, unfortunately.
X-5 just murders, it's really really good.
The 2A and 2B are functionally identical in building. One isn't harder to get a build for because the lasers are in the arms instead of the torso. And that being unfortunate is dependent on what you think of vertical tracking.
Not really, every other CDA can, if necessary, downarmor the arms to get some tonnage back. The 2B cannot afford to do this or else risk having all its weapons taken off to a fluke shot. Most of the time, IME a CDA is going to get taken out through its CT so you can afford to do this, but snapshots and inaccurate incoming fire do happen.
[CDA-2A]: 6xMLAS, AMS, 320XL, DHS, Endo, Ferro
You can't do anything like this in the -2B (leaving aside how it doesn't even have enough hardpoints for it), because it can't free up armor that way.
Which is more or less directly inferior. You generally need to downgrade the engine on the -2B to make weight on a comparable build. (Me personally? I just ran it with an XL280, 2 ERPPCs+1SLAS for cleanup and called it a day)
No you don't?
[CDA-2B]: 4xSPLS, LLAS, 340XL, DHS, Endo, Ferro
Further reach. 7.5 less on the firepower. Throw some Mlas instead of the Spulse and it's only 1 firepower less. Downgrade to a 325 to fill out the DHS if it runs hot, or put on the AMS (the 340 puts you at 151/kph, so AMS is pretty phhbbtt unless you're standing around in the open).
A whopping 6 (6!) armor shaved off. There is literally no difference in the build you can place on them save for the 2B having one less energy hardpoint.
EDIT: The 2A is also completely fucked by hills. The 2B is not. That's the point of the different chassis. Tradeoffs. You lose the whole expendable arms thing for vertical tracking. If that's not worth it to you, that's your call, but that doesn't mean the 2B is somehow unable to run proper builds.
I apologize, but I'm not even going to vaguely mince words here: That build is not good compared to the straight up 6xMLAS CDA-2A. Even with various mods (drop to 325, take MLAS, fill out DHS), you still have less DPS, a weaker alpha, and no AMS to help your team (it isn't just for you, the AMS umbrella is real). The only thing you get is the ability to aim up and a very light ability to poke with a single LLAS. That is a terrible trade.
The extra hardpoint and the half ton you can easily shave off the 2A's arms ends up mattering quite a bit.
The only thing the 2B can't do is utilize that 6th energy slot. That negates the half ton you need to shave off. Theres your 1.5 tons for AMS. ALL you lose is the energy point. You can easily make a competitive 2B. That's been the issue. You don't seem to realize that. Your original statement was how it was difficult to build. No, no it isn't. And if you can't see the benefit of vertical tracking or being able to hit at 600 range, then that's on you. But they are benefits.
So, flat out, you're not seeing the sum of the parts in a build on a 2B and just going "1 less energy and no free torso shields blaaaaah useless." No, wrong, and so so wrong.
Everything is 'competitive', but it's not optimal by far. If you actually check the DPS and alpha, they're straight inferior. Vertical tracking when you're mounting MLAS isn't important, doubly so after hill movement got nerfed in the face. And no, a single LLAS to poke at 600 range is completely fucking negligible, doubly so because it's likely to just get you shot in the face by PPC or Gauss while you're attempting to play around.
There is no sum of the parts in the 2B, it is not a great chassis.
>people trying to boat MLAS on the 2B
>not using the arm slots for large lasers
If you mount multiple LLAS on the 2B, you trade off:
1) Bad DPS because of heat
2) No AMS
and to fix either of those, you need to run a slower engine than the 320 I've been holding to. If you downgrade to the 280, you can fix both of the above at the cost of going slower.
This occupies an entirely different niche and I wasn't comparing it directly, but to be honest it's not as if a couple LLAS is going to make it some kinda fearsome poke machine.
Honestly, DPS is a poor measure of a build's performance. With DPS you are assuming;
a) that you are staying in combat and optimal range without dipping in and out of cover to cool off;
b) that you are consistently hitting with 100% of your shots (many games wherein DPS is a measure of performance assume a 100% hit percentage);
c) that your opponent isn't hitting you back enough to rip pieces off;
d) that you are in a one-on-one combat situation.
i.e. Perfect laboratory conditions.
The build that Docshifty posted is not really that bad of a build. SPLAS have a great niche and LLAS are pretty snazzy. It's not FOTM, and I personally would use a 5 MLAS build myself, but it's solid. I played with Docshifty tonight and he did just fine with it. I understand that what Spectrum is saying here is that the 2B is inferior, but I disagree. The vertical arm movement is arguably better now with the current movement mechanics.
cicada's kinda like a beefed up jenner; the one that can mount an ecm seems nice
Yeah if I buy a new chassis I keep eyeing he Cicada. Maybe it will be worthwhile if Spiders loose their glitch-armor.
CDA-3M works as a laser boat or PPC sniper.
-3C works as an MG annoyance with an LPL
-2A is a MLAS boat
-2B can be a run a number of different ways. It's the hardest to build since it uses arm lasers, unfortunately.
X-5 just murders, it's really really good.
The 2A and 2B are functionally identical in building. One isn't harder to get a build for because the lasers are in the arms instead of the torso. And that being unfortunate is dependent on what you think of vertical tracking.
Not really, every other CDA can, if necessary, downarmor the arms to get some tonnage back. The 2B cannot afford to do this or else risk having all its weapons taken off to a fluke shot. Most of the time, IME a CDA is going to get taken out through its CT so you can afford to do this, but snapshots and inaccurate incoming fire do happen.
[CDA-2A]: 6xMLAS, AMS, 320XL, DHS, Endo, Ferro
You can't do anything like this in the -2B (leaving aside how it doesn't even have enough hardpoints for it), because it can't free up armor that way.
Which is more or less directly inferior. You generally need to downgrade the engine on the -2B to make weight on a comparable build. (Me personally? I just ran it with an XL280, 2 ERPPCs+1SLAS for cleanup and called it a day)
No you don't?
[CDA-2B]: 4xSPLS, LLAS, 340XL, DHS, Endo, Ferro
Further reach. 7.5 less on the firepower. Throw some Mlas instead of the Spulse and it's only 1 firepower less. Downgrade to a 325 to fill out the DHS if it runs hot, or put on the AMS (the 340 puts you at 151/kph, so AMS is pretty phhbbtt unless you're standing around in the open).
A whopping 6 (6!) armor shaved off. There is literally no difference in the build you can place on them save for the 2B having one less energy hardpoint.
EDIT: The 2A is also completely fucked by hills. The 2B is not. That's the point of the different chassis. Tradeoffs. You lose the whole expendable arms thing for vertical tracking. If that's not worth it to you, that's your call, but that doesn't mean the 2B is somehow unable to run proper builds.
I apologize, but I'm not even going to vaguely mince words here: That build is not good compared to the straight up 6xMLAS CDA-2A. Even with various mods (drop to 325, take MLAS, fill out DHS), you still have less DPS, a weaker alpha, and no AMS to help your team (it isn't just for you, the AMS umbrella is real). The only thing you get is the ability to aim up and a very light ability to poke with a single LLAS. That is a terrible trade.
The extra hardpoint and the half ton you can easily shave off the 2A's arms ends up mattering quite a bit.
The only thing the 2B can't do is utilize that 6th energy slot. That negates the half ton you need to shave off. Theres your 1.5 tons for AMS. ALL you lose is the energy point. You can easily make a competitive 2B. That's been the issue. You don't seem to realize that. Your original statement was how it was difficult to build. No, no it isn't. And if you can't see the benefit of vertical tracking or being able to hit at 600 range, then that's on you. But they are benefits.
So, flat out, you're not seeing the sum of the parts in a build on a 2B and just going "1 less energy and no free torso shields blaaaaah useless." No, wrong, and so so wrong.
Everything is 'competitive', but it's not optimal by far. If you actually check the DPS and alpha, they're straight inferior. Vertical tracking when you're mounting MLAS isn't important, doubly so after hill movement got nerfed in the face. And no, a single LLAS to poke at 600 range is completely fucking negligible, doubly so because it's likely to just get you shot in the face by PPC or Gauss while you're attempting to play around.
There is no sum of the parts in the 2B, it is not a great chassis.
>people trying to boat MLAS on the 2B
>not using the arm slots for large lasers
If you mount multiple LLAS on the 2B, you trade off:
1) Bad DPS because of heat
2) No AMS
and to fix either of those, you need to run a slower engine than the 320 I've been holding to. If you downgrade to the 280, you can fix both of the above at the cost of going slower.
This occupies an entirely different niche and I wasn't comparing it directly, but to be honest it's not as if a couple LLAS is going to make it some kinda fearsome poke machine.
Holy god did no one even once mention optimal. This started because you were under the impression it was some herculean task to put together a competitive 2B build. What is your argument actually, so I know what to address?
More armor than your build on both, faster on the second, negligible damage difference on the first, still comes with AMS. You realize 1LL is 1 less heat than two mediums, for one less damage, and a lot more range? The whole difference is the arm mounted vertical tracking versus having torso shields and 1 more energy point. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's okay if you don't think the tracking is worth anything, but it's pretty easy to call a mech shit when you totally ignore the advantages it has over the chassis you're comparing it to.
Not to rip on you, Spectrum, but this is seriously the only important item about what you're arguing. Unlike stuff like WoW, DPS and alpha power are virtually never the most important thing in any build. Even right now, high alpha damage and DPS don't rule the roost; pinpoint damage is entirely the issue, not mechs with excessively high DPS or the most powerful alphas. Atlases can pack alpha strikes that are twice the power of the PPC + gauss garbage with a crapload more DPS, but that doesn't really mean much until they get close enough to use it.
What really matters is whether a weapon payload is a good match for the mech that carries it. Cicadas are awesome SPLAS platforms because they can stay right on the ass of lights and shred them, plus have the speed to pop up on slower mechs and hit them where it hurts at optimal range. So with an LL on there, you have a mech that has a long reach, plus can decimate mechs at the knife-fight ranges of lights; the MLAS version is only good within medium range, and the laser duration and recharge makes it inferior to the SPLAS version at really close range where it would normally fight anyway.
At the same time, putting LL + 5xSPLAS on a Blackjack can be a serious problem. Even though you can technically maintain that DPS for longer, you just plain don't have the speed to take advantage of the build. Better weapon stats because of better heat dissipation, worse build. Same thing with a Laserback, which can sport an even heavier laser loadout for higher DPS and alpha, but that isn't nearly enough to make the mech plain better.
Honestly, DPS and alpha in MWO are really just indicators for how quickly a weapon does damage and how much a mech can possibly do at once; they mean practically nothing at all in terms of how effective a mech actually is, though. I mean, ask Splatcats how much they rule these days; sure, they've got a high alpha and high DPS, but they're speed makes them easy targets for getting their ears boxed. Conversely, a Sprinturion or X-5 with just 2 Artemis SRM6 launchers can be a nightmare, simply because they match the weapons so much better.
Ninja Snarl P on
+1
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
All I will say is that it's pretty funny that there are two responses here that directly refute each other:
The build is support to hunt lights
vs
DPS doesn't matter
Because if you're fighting lights you *never* have the opportunity to back off and cool down, they can keep fighting you, so DPS is very important.
Lots of you are playing but not in Vent....I'll remember these names.
The only group we are allowed to play with is PA, of course.
You were on the list, then when I invited you I saw you were in a group and crossed you off. Turns out when you just random invite a bunch of people, they will join you in vent. Cept CarbOnFire....he plays alone.
All I will say is that it's pretty funny that there are two responses here that directly refute each other:
The build is support to hunt lights
vs
DPS doesn't matter
Because if you're fighting lights you *never* have the opportunity to back off and cool down, they can keep fighting you, so DPS is very important.
Hey, I offered a completely valid third option: The Cicada kinda sucks.
All I will say is that it's pretty funny that there are two responses here that directly refute each other:
The build is support to hunt lights
vs
DPS doesn't matter
Because if you're fighting lights you *never* have the opportunity to back off and cool down, they can keep fighting you, so DPS is very important.
I've only read this post so I am inferring what the discussion is, killing lights. Personally, I like being able to lay down fire as often as possible. I play while drinking, a lot, so my accuracy is not good enough to rely on high alpha strikes to kill them.
All I will say is that it's pretty funny that there are two responses here that directly refute each other:
The build is support to hunt lights
vs
DPS doesn't matter
Because if you're fighting lights you *never* have the opportunity to back off and cool down, they can keep fighting you, so DPS is very important.
Personally, I like being able to lay down fire as often as possible. I play while drinking, a lot, so my accuracy is not good enough to rely on high alpha strikes to kill them.
Excuse me sir, may I have a moment of your time to tell you about the savior LBX-Jesus?
+1
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
All I will say is that it's pretty funny that there are two responses here that directly refute each other:
The build is support to hunt lights
vs
DPS doesn't matter
Because if you're fighting lights you *never* have the opportunity to back off and cool down, they can keep fighting you, so DPS is very important.
Hey, I offered a completely valid third option: The Cicada kinda sucks.
Both the CDA-3M and The X-5 are very good chassis, actually. :P
All I will say is that it's pretty funny that there are two responses here that directly refute each other:
The build is support to hunt lights
vs
DPS doesn't matter
Because if you're fighting lights you *never* have the opportunity to back off and cool down, they can keep fighting you, so DPS is very important.
Hey, I offered a completely valid third option: The Cicada kinda sucks.
Both the CDA-3M and The X-5 are very good chassis, actually. :P
The de-sync Spider is a better choice for scouting and the Jenner goes faster with the same firepower and a smaller profile. The Blackjack 1X has more guns and armor and goes plenty fast. The 1X also has the added advantage of having Jager style hardpoints.
Personally, I like being able to lay down fire as often as possible. I play while drinking, a lot, so my accuracy is not good enough to rely on high alpha strikes to kill them.
Excuse me sir, may I have a moment of your time to tell you about the savior LBX-Jesus?
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Hey, could be worse: I played Eve Online for six years. Now THAT is straight up bittervet status.
Negatory. Cast is cancelled due to all of us being in varying stages of IRL work and PAX prepping.
There once was a weapon too great,
Instant cored was every light's fate,
The rest of us tire,
of PPC fire,
But dev's non-response has left us irate.
Ignored and alone,
Fire still burns in the belly,
of Medium mechs.
Boogeymen emerge,
Thousands of blinking red lights,
Lacking awareness
Periscope, you say?
How 'bout my foot? It's also
A Colonoscope.
No! You get off my lawn!
But yeah, I'm looking at taking a break from any serious playing for at least the next week. Unfortunately, I activated my Premium time, so I have about 9 weeks of premium counting down and don't want to completely waste it, but probably no more than a game or two a day to get double XP.
And it's not because I think the game is unbearably bad right now, it's just that I'm pretty sick of the pinpoint-alpha meta still being the current major problem. PGI needs to at least rotate the OP problems instead of letting the same ones persist for so ridiculously long.
Eh, it's rare that I lose an arm in a Cicada anyway. They're just so small. If anything you can strip armor from the head, since nobody aims for headshots against lights.
Pretty much. It's not like wtfbbq streak/lrmocalypse grade bad, but it's more just a lack of match variety. You can only shoot down so many PPC/Gauss Highlanders before it just kinda loses its charm.
Cripes.
Without premium, that is a 130k payout.
And also a lot more contribution to the team than probably the 2-3 lowest pubbies on the team. Who will probably still make 90-100k each.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
No you don't?
[CDA-2B]: 4xSPLS, LLAS, 340XL, DHS, Endo, Ferro
Further reach. 7.5 less on the firepower. Throw some Mlas instead of the Spulse and it's only 1 firepower less. Downgrade to a 325 to fill out the DHS if it runs hot, or put on the AMS (the 340 puts you at 151/kph, so AMS is pretty phhbbtt unless you're standing around in the open).
A whopping 6 (6!) armor shaved off. There is literally no difference in the build you can place on them save for the 2B having one less energy hardpoint.
EDIT: The 2A is also completely fucked by hills. The 2B is not. That's the point of the different chassis. Tradeoffs. You lose the whole expendable arms thing for vertical tracking. If that's not worth it to you, that's your call, but that doesn't mean the 2B is somehow unable to run proper builds.
The issue was they were balanced and nice and there was no issue with them so PGI added ghost heat to them because they are silly, silly people, but for a while players were silly and forgot PGI are silly and actually thought maybe it was unintentional.
The extra hardpoint and the half ton you can easily shave off the 2A's arms ends up mattering quite a bit.
The only group we are allowed to play with is PA, of course.
The only thing the 2B can't do is utilize that 6th energy slot. That negates the half ton you need to shave off. Theres your 1.5 tons for AMS. ALL you lose is the energy point. You can easily make a competitive 2B. That's been the issue. You don't seem to realize that. Your original statement was how it was difficult to build. No, no it isn't. And if you can't see the benefit of vertical tracking or being able to hit at 600 range, then that's on you. But they are benefits.
So, flat out, you're not seeing the sum of the parts in a build on a 2B and just going "1 less energy and no free torso shields blaaaaah useless." No, wrong, and so so wrong.
>not using the arm slots for large lasers
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
There is no sum of the parts in the 2B, it is not a great chassis.
If you mount multiple LLAS on the 2B, you trade off:
1) Bad DPS because of heat
2) No AMS
and to fix either of those, you need to run a slower engine than the 320 I've been holding to. If you downgrade to the 280, you can fix both of the above at the cost of going slower.
This occupies an entirely different niche and I wasn't comparing it directly, but to be honest it's not as if a couple LLAS is going to make it some kinda fearsome poke machine.
a) that you are staying in combat and optimal range without dipping in and out of cover to cool off;
b) that you are consistently hitting with 100% of your shots (many games wherein DPS is a measure of performance assume a 100% hit percentage);
c) that your opponent isn't hitting you back enough to rip pieces off;
d) that you are in a one-on-one combat situation.
i.e. Perfect laboratory conditions.
The build that Docshifty posted is not really that bad of a build. SPLAS have a great niche and LLAS are pretty snazzy. It's not FOTM, and I personally would use a 5 MLAS build myself, but it's solid. I played with Docshifty tonight and he did just fine with it. I understand that what Spectrum is saying here is that the 2B is inferior, but I disagree. The vertical arm movement is arguably better now with the current movement mechanics.
Holy god did no one even once mention optimal. This started because you were under the impression it was some herculean task to put together a competitive 2B build. What is your argument actually, so I know what to address?
[CDA-2B]: 2xLLAS, 3xSLAS, AMS, 300XL, DHS, Endo, Ferro
[CDA-2B]: 5xMLAS, AMS, 340XL, DHS, Endo, Ferro
More armor than your build on both, faster on the second, negligible damage difference on the first, still comes with AMS. You realize 1LL is 1 less heat than two mediums, for one less damage, and a lot more range? The whole difference is the arm mounted vertical tracking versus having torso shields and 1 more energy point. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's okay if you don't think the tracking is worth anything, but it's pretty easy to call a mech shit when you totally ignore the advantages it has over the chassis you're comparing it to.
Not to rip on you, Spectrum, but this is seriously the only important item about what you're arguing. Unlike stuff like WoW, DPS and alpha power are virtually never the most important thing in any build. Even right now, high alpha damage and DPS don't rule the roost; pinpoint damage is entirely the issue, not mechs with excessively high DPS or the most powerful alphas. Atlases can pack alpha strikes that are twice the power of the PPC + gauss garbage with a crapload more DPS, but that doesn't really mean much until they get close enough to use it.
What really matters is whether a weapon payload is a good match for the mech that carries it. Cicadas are awesome SPLAS platforms because they can stay right on the ass of lights and shred them, plus have the speed to pop up on slower mechs and hit them where it hurts at optimal range. So with an LL on there, you have a mech that has a long reach, plus can decimate mechs at the knife-fight ranges of lights; the MLAS version is only good within medium range, and the laser duration and recharge makes it inferior to the SPLAS version at really close range where it would normally fight anyway.
At the same time, putting LL + 5xSPLAS on a Blackjack can be a serious problem. Even though you can technically maintain that DPS for longer, you just plain don't have the speed to take advantage of the build. Better weapon stats because of better heat dissipation, worse build. Same thing with a Laserback, which can sport an even heavier laser loadout for higher DPS and alpha, but that isn't nearly enough to make the mech plain better.
Honestly, DPS and alpha in MWO are really just indicators for how quickly a weapon does damage and how much a mech can possibly do at once; they mean practically nothing at all in terms of how effective a mech actually is, though. I mean, ask Splatcats how much they rule these days; sure, they've got a high alpha and high DPS, but they're speed makes them easy targets for getting their ears boxed. Conversely, a Sprinturion or X-5 with just 2 Artemis SRM6 launchers can be a nightmare, simply because they match the weapons so much better.
The build is support to hunt lights
vs
DPS doesn't matter
Because if you're fighting lights you *never* have the opportunity to back off and cool down, they can keep fighting you, so DPS is very important.
You were on the list, then when I invited you I saw you were in a group and crossed you off. Turns out when you just random invite a bunch of people, they will join you in vent. Cept CarbOnFire....he plays alone.
Hey, I offered a completely valid third option: The Cicada kinda sucks.
I've only read this post so I am inferring what the discussion is, killing lights. Personally, I like being able to lay down fire as often as possible. I play while drinking, a lot, so my accuracy is not good enough to rely on high alpha strikes to kill them.
You know what really helps fighting lights?
Vertical tracking.
Excuse me sir, may I have a moment of your time to tell you about the savior LBX-Jesus?
The de-sync Spider is a better choice for scouting and the Jenner goes faster with the same firepower and a smaller profile. The Blackjack 1X has more guns and armor and goes plenty fast. The 1X also has the added advantage of having Jager style hardpoints.
My Heavy Metal rocks a LBX 10.
He did pack his own tag though, so that's nice
ed: now he's out of missiles and trucking over to the enemy base at 38.5 km/h
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Please tell me he's legged.