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[Mechwarrior Online] ABANDON THREAD - FUSION REACTOR CRITICAL

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Posts

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Got my Golden Boy 100% elited today. Well finished basicing my KNT-19 and I had plenty of exp on the GB. Holy crap elited the thing is a beast. Fast turn, good torso twist, 90 kph movement and runs plenty cool. I am in shock. It feels like an awesome mech now.

    Also I have decided the Protector is a mech I was made 4. In a game with it I got 3 kills, 2 of which when I only had an ac/20 and a mlas left because I lost my srm side early. It is my reaper so I could lost an ST. Also I guess a mlas and AC/20 is all that is needed to kill a Cataphract-3x. because that is all it.

    Also landing AC/20 rounds on a commando or any light is just a good feeling.

    I really like my Golden Boy, but I haven't elited it yet because I haven't convinced myself to buy the other Kintaros. This is mainly because I'm not sure what I would do with them, aside from more or less copying my GB build, and I hate to do that.

    I'm also tempted to buy a Commando, until I look at it's numbers, then I'm like why? But...

    Join me in the darkside since the Commando and the GB are the only two mechs I have elited. :P

    For builds this is what I run:

    [Golden_Boy]: 5xSSRM, LLAS, AMS, 2xMLAS, 280XL, DHS

    You can add endo to get some extra armor and swap in the mlas to mplas if you want. Basically dive in and out of cover as you move up taking pot shots with your llas. Hunts lights like a monster as well.

    [KTO-20]: SRM4, AMS, 4xMLAS, 2xSRM6, 300XL, DHS, Artemis, Endo

    You are a 4SP with better missiles slots and more speed. Play like one and you can rip up shit really well. This mech should be 96 kph with tweek.

    [KTO-19]: LLAS, 3xSRM4, AMS, 2xMLAS, 300XL, DHS, Artemis, Ferro

    Kind of the srm version of my GB. It has ff because it comes with it and I didn't fill like swapping it out for Endo. With Endo though you can again upgrade to mplas if you want. This one was my least favorite because it is a GB with one less missile slot but a bigger engine. Similar play to the KNT-20. Poke in and out, pick your fights. I got 4 kills with it earlier today and you can rip apart a lot of things.

    03x29di.png
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    m!ttens wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    @m!ttens

    Needs more histograms.

    You want charts? You got 'em. Also, we really need more data, but you sort of get the general idea here.

    Your datas. Send them to me.

    I will show you cool tricks.

    omgbfz5lzi1s.png
    Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
    The Disappearance of Inigo Sharpe: Tomas à Dunsanin
    Apogee
  • SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    Handgimp wrote: »
    OMG I feel like such an idiot. Just discovered by accident you can click and drag your mechbays to rapidly switch mechs... I've just been clicking the arrow buttons like a madman. :oops:

    Mouse wheel also works

    Edit: Dammit, beat!

    Like the most rented of mules.

    5gsowHm.png
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Figured I would roll out on my Commando 2D today for one last game since I seemed to be on a roll verse pugs.

    cw9OkaP.jpg?1


    It is amazing what toggling your ecm between shield and jam can do. Helped me splat a raven, cicada and a atlas thanks to our lrm boats actually hitting stuff.

    Also ran out of ssrm ammo. That never happens.

    03x29di.png
  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style Warning: Mothership Reporting Walla Walla, WARegistered User regular
    So, judging by the graphs, Mediums are woefully underrepresented and Heavies basically take their place as the MWO general workhorse class of mech.

    SijLqhH.png
    Steam: stabbitystyle | uPlay: stabbitystyle | b.net: Stabbity#1528 | XBL: Stabbity Style | PSN: Stabbity_Style | Twitch: stabbitystyle
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    So, judging by the graphs, Mediums are woefully underrepresented and Heavies basically take their place as the MWO general workhorse class of mech.

    This isn't a surprise right now.

    There isn't much a medium can do that a heavy can't. Dragons can move 100+ kph with more armor and similar loadouts. Jagers, Orions and Cataphracts can bring more firepower at similar speeds(70+ kph) again with my armor. And then you have stuff like the Ilyas which can chainsaw through enemies.

    I love my mediums. I am a medium pilot at heart now. But I know full well my Hunchbacks and Kintaros require a lot better play to get similar results to my Protector, Jager or Ilyas.

    03x29di.png
  • nonoffensivenonoffensive Registered User regular
    So, judging by the graphs, Mediums are woefully underrepresented and Heavies basically take their place as the MWO general workhorse class of mech.

    Pretty much, mediums have the best balance of not enough armor to tank, and not fast enough to generate lag shields. Maybe if their engine limits were a little more flexible, but I'm not sure raw speed is much of an answer.

    This is where tonnage limits should come in, but there's not really anything a light can't do better either with a small sacrifice to dps.

    Gnome-Interruptus
  • m!ttensm!ttens Registered User regular
    The problem I see with mediums is that when you dump enough engine into one (if possible) to get a decent speed, you're severely limiting your weapons loadout. Now you're left with a slower light with a smidge more armor. In a world where front-loaded damage is king, that little bit of armor isn't going to help much.

    I think it would be interesting to see an increase to acceleration, deceleration and turn speed for mediums; that way, you may be limited to 90kph or so, but you can do neat things like dash between buildings or play around with your throttle to dodge long range ballistic shots.

    Gnome-Interruptus
  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    m!ttens wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    @m!ttens

    Needs more histograms.

    You want charts? You got 'em. Also, we really need more data, but you sort of get the general idea here.

    Your datas. Send them to me.

    I will show you cool tricks.

    Data-Star-Trek-Fist-Pump.gif

    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

    CarbonFire
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    it would be tough to give a lot of mediums more speed without putting them in the same position W/R/T lights that heavies are in now W/R/T mediums: more armor and firepower without enough of a difference in speed to compensate. Like, if blackjacks could fit XL320s or something and get up to 120-130KPH or so, suddenly ravens, commandos and to a lesser extent jenners are the new low mechs on the food chain.

    Really the better answer would be to slow heavies and assaults down and let mediums/dragons fill the mobile/firepower hybrid space that's currently being occupied by jaegers, cataphracts, victors and I guess orions. Doesn't seem terribly likely though

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    NREqxl5.jpg
    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    But then heavies are just assaults with less armor and fewer guns.

    drowning in the ever heaving waters of mother Earth's salty tiddy.
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    I wouldn't mind them adding speed caps based on tonnage.

    So 20-25 tons=no cap except the engine.

    26-35 tons=Cap at 135 to 145? Something like that.

    36-45 tons= Cap at around 120

    46-55 tons= Cap at 95 with tweak

    56-65 tons= Cap at 85 with tweak

    66-75 tons= Cap at 75 with tweak

    76-85 tons= Cap at 70 with tweak

    86-100 tons= Cap at 65 with tweak

    This can be explained with stress on myomar and the gyros that anything beyond this speeds damages the mech. MASC lets you break your cap. The reason for bigger engines would be more heatsink slots. And all the suddon that 45-60 ton range really has a purpose with the firepower and speed they can run. While you won't have assaults doing 80+ anymore.

    03x29di.png
    Kashaar
  • kilnbornkilnborn Registered User regular
    What about a C-Bill cap rather than a weight cap in groups? Instead of saying 'Oh, you can drop with 600 tons total', why not do it in C-Bills instead?

    'You can drop with 100 million C-Bills worth of equipment.'

    Lights are cheap, but need to run XLs (in general). I suspect a HBK or CN9 is cheaper than a Commando.

    XL360s (as in, say, dragons or victors) are expensive, and may not provide as much bang for the buck as a stalker with a STD300.

  • m!ttensm!ttens Registered User regular
    it would be tough to give a lot of mediums more speed without putting them in the same position W/R/T lights that heavies are in now W/R/T mediums: more armor and firepower without enough of a difference in speed to compensate. Like, if blackjacks could fit XL320s or something and get up to 120-130KPH or so, suddenly ravens, commandos and to a lesser extent jenners are the new low mechs on the food chain.

    Really the better answer would be to slow heavies and assaults down and let mediums/dragons fill the mobile/firepower hybrid space that's currently being occupied by jaegers, cataphracts, victors and I guess orions. Doesn't seem terribly likely though

    I think we can create a disconnect between speed and acceleration here and give mediums a better edge at their intended role of skirmishers on the edges of the main force. When PGI announced tweaks to mediums to make them more agile, I actually thought they would do this, giving them a higher acceleration to max speed (and also better braking and turning as well). This would let a medium be able to maneuver more easily around buildings and cover, or if one can get behind an enemy assault, have an easier time of sticking behind it and coring it out from behind.

  • nonoffensivenonoffensive Registered User regular
    m!ttens wrote: »
    The problem I see with mediums is that when you dump enough engine into one (if possible) to get a decent speed, you're severely limiting your weapons loadout. Now you're left with a slower light with a smidge more armor. In a world where front-loaded damage is king, that little bit of armor isn't going to help much.

    I think it would be interesting to see an increase to acceleration, deceleration and turn speed for mediums; that way, you may be limited to 90kph or so, but you can do neat things like dash between buildings or play around with your throttle to dodge long range ballistic shots.

    I like the idea of giving mediums better agility, and perhaps better aim while jump jetting? The idea being they are a balance between pure speed and weaponry. Just slowing Heavies and Assaults down across the board will really limit some of the Mechs designed around being fast like the Dragon.

    I seem to have a personal bias that stuff shooting giant guns shouldn't be moving 80kph while it unleashing alpha's worth of weaponry. What I'm trying to get at is speed should feel different between weight classes:

    Lights should feel like an F1 where you can barely keep your teeth in your mouth because you are in a machine designed for speed.
    Heavies and Assaults should strain under the weight of moving so much firepower.
    Mediums should get better firepower than a light, and better movement than a Heavy.

    The easiest way I could see this working in the short term is add a penalty to Torso Twist and Arm movement while hitting max speed in Assaults and Heavies, just like how you can't turn as quickly the faster you go. Lights suffer from aim jitter at high speeds. More engine gets you where you need to be, but doesn't necessarily help you fight, unless you are in a medium.

  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    T-40 minutes. Have a stipulation ready!

    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    operation: slowwwwww

    doesn't matter what you drive, but it must fit the smallest engine possible

    ed: I just realize there aren't actually any lower limits on the engine you can fit, so this might not be the great idea

    (highlander with a STD180 runs 30 km/h)

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    NREqxl5.jpg
    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
  • Red M3naceRed M3nace Registered User regular
    operation: slowwwwww

    doesn't matter what you drive, but it must fit the smallest engine possible

    ed: I just realize there aren't actually any lower limits on the engine you can fit, so this might not be the great idea

    (highlander with a STD180 runs 30 km/h)

    You gave me an awesome idea - Operation Speed!

    You are Keanu Reeves. You must not allow your bus mech to fall below 50 mph (80 kph) or you explode (force overheat)!

    Careful not to hit anyone or go up a steep hill!

    red-m3nace.png
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    that's basically what I do anyway though

    NREqxl5.jpg
    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
  • Red M3naceRed M3nace Registered User regular
    You commit suicide when you slow down? You are my new hero. Hardcore dude.

    red-m3nace.png
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    well, it's more like I go fast, get pretty hot, and then sometimes I die for totally unrelated reasons. But it's fun in the meantime.

    this actually dovetails with the conversation about mediums, because a lot of the time I'm running around in this firebrand

    sometimes a blackjack or a trebuchet or something will try and run away from me and it's always hilarious.

    NREqxl5.jpg
    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
  • TiglissTigliss Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    - BYOS -

    Good ones:
    Jenner lance
    Centurion lance
    Dakka lance (UAC5)
    Bring something heavy lance
    Dragonlance

    Not quite so successful ones:
    Meow lance (CATaphract, CATapult)
    Atlance (even though we won)

    Tigliss on
    l7n41RV.png?1
  • GogDogGogDog Registered User regular
    sorry, can someone answer this for me definitively? Does target decay also work when a mech goes behind you? I.e., who would get 360 target retention if target decay does the same thing?

    I'm using streaks more often in jenners and do frequently lose lock when the enemy light zips by or I zip by a slow enemy...

    Gogdog_zps44bc786f.png
  • CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    Handgimp wrote: »
    OMG I feel like such an idiot. Just discovered by accident you can click and drag your mechbays to rapidly switch mechs... I've just been clicking the arrow buttons like a madman. :oops:

    WHAT

    Also why is your thing...blue.

    jjae2123
  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    GogDog wrote: »
    sorry, can someone answer this for me definitively? Does target decay also work when a mech goes behind you? I.e., who would get 360 target retention if target decay does the same thing?

    I'm using streaks more often in jenners and do frequently lose lock when the enemy light zips by or I zip by a slow enemy...

    I haven't used them, but going by name, with Target Decay you have to see the Mech FIRST. With 360 targeting if someone sneaks up behind you, I guess that would let you target them without first seeing them. Might be useful for teammates to LRM someone on your back.

    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

  • VedicIntentVedicIntent Registered User regular
    m!ttens wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    @m!ttens

    Needs more histograms.

    You want charts? You got 'em. Also, we really need more data, but you sort of get the general idea here.


    s8BHP8w.png


    6TFBbXE.png

    This is great work, thanks for putting the time into this! I need to drop into some MWO to log them dataz and help out.

    I'm curious if we can use the data set to answer, semi-confidently, how big an impact weight differential has on match outcome. If the set's big enough, can you run a multivariate regression on total weight, weight difference, class distribution, class count, map, and game mode versus match outcome? That would let us see the strength of a given factor's effect (assuming it's significant), and how large the weight differential has to be in order to hinder your team (assuming it does).

    Also, what are some of the basic stats like Standard Deviation? Given the +/- tonnage the matchmaker uses, I'm wondering how far apart most teams tend to be.

    All of this is assuming the data set is large enough to use for meaningful analysis...

    VT09mOz.png
    Elvenshae
  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    edited September 2013
    We have 65 matches to go off of so far, it's up to YOU to collect more data for this!

    446px-Uncle_Sam_pointing_finger.jpg

    The imgur account to upload to is OosikScoreboards pw My Favorite Mech (check sig, yo) There's an album for Solo, 2-3 Oosiks, 4 Oosiks, and 12 man. Please put them in the respective album, just to help save a little time. The google doc is here

    DaMoonRulz on
    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    jeez this chaos theory splash page is painful

    NREqxl5.jpg
    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
  • HydroSqueegeeHydroSqueegee ULTRACAT!!!™®© Registered User regular
    ITS MECHIN' TIME!!!!

    zW0NKxe.png
  • NipsNips Luxuriating in existential crisis.Registered User regular
    DaMoonRulz wrote: »
    GogDog wrote: »
    sorry, can someone answer this for me definitively? Does target decay also work when a mech goes behind you? I.e., who would get 360 target retention if target decay does the same thing?

    I'm using streaks more often in jenners and do frequently lose lock when the enemy light zips by or I zip by a slow enemy...

    I haven't used them, but going by name, with Target Decay you have to see the Mech FIRST. With 360 targeting if someone sneaks up behind you, I guess that would let you target them without first seeing them. Might be useful for teammates to LRM someone on your back.

    I've got Target Decay. I'll investigate this in depth tomorrow.

    JXUBxMxP0QndjQUEnTwTxOkfKmx8kWNvuc-FUtbSz_23_DAhGKe7W9spFKLXAtkpTBqM8Dt6kQrv-rS69Hi3FheL3fays2xTeVUvWR7g5UyLHnFA0frGk1BC12GYdOSRn9lbaJB-uH0htiLPJMrc9cSRsIgk5Dx7jg9K8rJVfG43lkeAWxTgcolNscW9KO2UZjKT8GMbYAFgFvu2TaMoLH8LBA5p2pm6VNYRsQK3QGjCsze1TOv2yIbCazmDwCHmjiQxNDf6LHP35msyiXo3CxuWs9Y8DQvJjvj10kWaspRNlWHKjS5w9Y0KLuIkhQKOxgaDziG290v4zBmTi-i7OfDz-foqIqKzC9wTbn9i_uU87GRitmrNAJdzRRsaTW5VQu_XX_5gCN8XCoNyu5RWWVGTsjJuyezz1_NpFa903Uj2TnFqnL1wJ-RZiFAAd2Bdut-G1pdQtdQihsq2dx_BjtmtGC3KZRyylO1t2c12dhfb0rStq4v8pg46ciOcdtT_1qm85IgUmGd7AmgLxCFPb0xnxWZvr26G-oXSqrQdjKA1zNIInSowiHcbUO2O8S5LRJVR6vQiEg0fbGXw4vqJYEn917tnzHMh8r0xom8BLKMvoFDelk6wbEeNq8w8Eyu2ouGjEMIvvJcb2az2AKQ1uE_7gdatfKG2QdvfdSBRSc35MQ=w498-h80-no
  • ErlkönigErlkönig Registered User regular
    Wish I could join you guys in robot-shooty-action. But know that while I'm rebuilding my desktop (going from Sandy Bridge to Haswell) my Firebrand, with its dual-LB10Xes, is with you in spirit (or my brawling Orion)!

    (Hmm...just thought of an operation: Operation Italian Stallion - brawling builds only)

    | Origin/R*SC/Steam: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum |
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Sigh. Think I'm just gonna have to give up the Orions for now. Just too dang tired of damned near everything hitting the CT from something like a 240-degree front arc; I can always do something with the mech, but I'm sick of getting cored out easily because all those hits gravitate right to the CT.

  • VedicIntentVedicIntent Registered User regular
    DaMoonRulz wrote: »
    We have 65 matches to go off of so far, it's up to YOU to collect more data for this!

    446px-Uncle_Sam_pointing_finger.jpg

    The imgur account to upload to is OosikScoreboards pw My Favorite Mech (check sig, yo) There's an album for Solo, 2-3 Oosiks, 4 Oosiks, and 12 man. Please put them in the respective album, just to help save a little time. The google doc is here

    Planning on it! My SSD suddenly became Drew Barrymore in 50 First Dates; every time I reboot, it goes back in time to August 28th no matter what I do to it. Luckily it was the system drive and I'm having it RMA'd...but the temp Windows install is taking foreverrrrr. Then I reinstall MWO and stompy stomp.

    VT09mOz.png
  • KashaarKashaar Low OrbitRegistered User regular
    m!ttens wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    @m!ttens

    Needs more histograms.

    You want charts? You got 'em. Also, we really need more data, but you sort of get the general idea here.

    s8BHP8w.png


    6TFBbXE.png

    We really definitely need more data. Those are all over the place!
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind them adding speed caps based on tonnage.
    So 20-25 tons=no cap except the engine.

    26-35 tons=Cap at 135 to 145? Something like that.

    36-45 tons= Cap at around 120

    46-55 tons= Cap at 95 with tweak

    56-65 tons= Cap at 85 with tweak

    66-75 tons= Cap at 75 with tweak

    76-85 tons= Cap at 70 with tweak

    86-100 tons= Cap at 65 with tweak
    This can be explained with stress on myomar and the gyros that anything beyond this speeds damages the mech. MASC lets you break your cap. The reason for bigger engines would be more heatsink slots. And all the suddon that 45-60 ton range really has a purpose with the firepower and speed they can run. While you won't have assaults doing 80+ anymore.

    I would so absolutely love this. I'd been thinking about nerfing XL engines or DHS or so... but this is probably a simpler and better idea.

    kashaar.pngDev Blog | Twitter | Tumblr | Steam
    Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.

    I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    I would only be down with that speed cap tweak if the 20 to 25 ton range was allowed to go 175kph. as it stands, the 35 to 45 tonners would fill in what the lights are any good at right now, and have another 10 to 20 tons of armament.

    notoriusben_zpsa205e831.png
    Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
  • ApogeeApogee Lancks In Every Game Ever Registered User regular
    @m!ttens

    I'd love a copy of the data too... I just learned to use SPSS and I can make it do tricks!

    8R7BtLw.png
    VedicIntentElvenshae
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    I could run it through STATA if we wanted. But not sure we are at the point where it would matter.

    03x29di.png
  • HydroSqueegeeHydroSqueegee ULTRACAT!!!™®© Registered User regular
    more data uploaded to imgur

    zW0NKxe.png
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    I would only be down with that speed cap tweak if the 20 to 25 ton range was allowed to go 175kph. as it stands, the 35 to 45 tonners would fill in what the lights are any good at right now, and have another 10 to 20 tons of armament.

    I didn't change any values for that. And these are just estimated caps. Pretty sure there isn't a single medium that can break 120 but the cicada right now without giving up a big chunk of armament. And that is losing at least 20 tons to just the engine.

    A quick test using outreach showed this to be true. I mean lights are getting the least change in their cap aka no change outside of them being capped at 150 atm.

    I am fine with them going up, they should uncap that max but I don't see a major change, actually this slows some mediums down.

    03x29di.png
  • m!ttensm!ttens Registered User regular
    Just got back from a pumpkin/oktoberfest beer tasting party with friends, so I missed most of the shenanigans that went on this evening. If you want a copy of the data I got from @DaMoonRulz (so you don't have to massage text into spreadsheets), send me a PM and I'll give you a link to the data. The problem though, is that we have too few data points to really make some good analysis. I'd kill to have 1 days worth of games from PGI

    Elvenshae
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