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Dieu et mon Dongs (Now just Paradox discussion)



  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    edited February 2014
    wait so if they're expanding the map eastwards where are the mongols going to come from

    will they just spawn more easterly, earlier

    also i appreciate that they're making the red sea and the persian gulf actual sea zones, it's a pain in the arse not being able to sail on them

    can't wait to dominate the spice trade as megavenice with ports on the indian ocean

    Crimson King on
  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    So I've been playing my first republic game starting as a Patrician in Amalfi in the Old Gods start, and I've expanded to the point where I'm now the Serene Doge of Genoa. (The original Genoa and Venice both fell to vengeful mercenary companies, ironically. While I took Genoa from the mercs, Venice apparently hired a really big mercenary company as the current 'King' of Venice has about 15000 troops.) Anyways, as I understand it, there's no opinion penalty for having lots of King titles right? So, as a republic there's no reason not to make any king titles I can, right? I can get tons of prestige gain and dejure wars and stuff that way, with no real consequences, right?

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    PUMPED for India

  • TallahasseerielTallahasseeriel Registered User regular
    So is EU4 any good?

    I've been having trouble getting into Crusader Kings 2 because for one I can't settle on a good character to start as.

    Also EU4 is on sale on the humble store only a little longer.

  • SLyMSLyM Registered User regular
    I really like it but it isn't for everyone

    My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
  • TallahasseerielTallahasseeriel Registered User regular
    Think I might be starting to wrap my head around CK2

    I started as Earl of Dublin and just in 1070 inherited the area to my south from my father, there isn't anyone with a super strong claim on it from what I can tell? Is there anyway I can solidify my claims on it though?

    Also think I might press a fabricated claim on this central ireland area here soon.

  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    One of the funnest things with EUIV for meis finding out the surprising places where Paradox has put historical flavor. For example, you wouldn't think that Novgorod, a state that only lasted for a few decades into the game's timeframe, would have any unique events. But lo and behold I play as them and get an event about the disunity of the city leading up to its collapse and paving the way for an easy Muscovite victory. I had three choices on who I should support: the merchants, the nobles, or the commonfolk. Depending on who I supported I got different benefits (Mercantilism, prestige, or one extra tax base respectively.) and had to face different rebels. Pretty neat, and it's going to be fun to get the "It all belongs to Mother Russia" achievement as Novgorod.

  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    I've been EU4ing it up as Burgundy for the last little while, and thanks to a few big dollops of luck have more or less absorbed France (aside from Brittany and an English enclave by Castile) and a few of the HRE minors. By the late 1500s I was planning to spend a decade or two digesting the most recent bits of that and building up my fleet to challenge England's - they're the biggest neighboring rival and have unified the isles, so I really want to put Scotland and Ireland back on the map for safety's sake. So a good stretch of time trying not to burn off manpower, keeping army maintenance low so I can have a pile of savings for when I press the trade fleets into the war for a year or so, etc.

    Things are looking good, and then all of a sudden I get a face full of Dutch Revolt, more or less right on schedule. So all of a sudden I've gone from complacently building up a war chest to only being able to manage a minuscule surplus since three quarters of my army is in the Netherlands putting down 40-60,000 rebels a month in some rather spectacular bloodbaths.

    I kind of should have seen that coming. Sure, the Habsburgs weren't the ones in charge of the area, but the Eighty Years War wasn't against the Habsburgs specifically, it was against The Guys In Charge At The Moment. I kinda like that that sort of stuff can still spring up, and make sense springing up, even if the actual historical situation is very very different..

  • The Cow KingThe Cow King a island Registered User regular
    edited February 2014
    this was the first time I've seen the ai make a empire and it wasn't the way I expected

    The Cow King on
  • EmporiumEmporium Registered User regular
    edited February 2014
    On the topic of empires, apparently most of the culture restrictions on making kingdoms and empires has been lifted for players (but to my knowledge not for AIs) in 2.0. I've been preparing a save game for Rajas of India, and conquering certain parts of the map have been much cleaner this time around. Less duchies, more kingdoms! However, if you've been paying more attention than me to Paradox dev diaries, you also know that current save games will not be compatible with the new expansion. I should have seen that coming, but on the upside I've been having a ton of fun with the game again.

    Emporium on
  • BYToadyBYToady Registered User regular
    God damn Skirmish Retinues are crazy good. You get a lot of them, so I don't have to worry about any of my vassals getting uppity and trying to claim my titles, and since skirmish rating is used for assaulting sieges I can blow through castles with relatively few losses.

    Makes for wonderful raiding parties, and later, blitzing down duchies during holy wars.

    Battletag BYToady#1454
  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    Yeah Skirmish retinue have struck me as a bit too good. They're cheap as far as retinue go, they up relatively little retinue cap, and as mentioned they're great at assaulting. There seem to be only a handful of cultural retinue that are arguably equatable.

  • BYToadyBYToady Registered User regular
    Its cause the archer portion only costs 1, while basically everything else is 2. Cultures with horse archers are arguably better, cause horse archers are like woah.

    Battletag BYToady#1454
  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Archer-heavy retinues are especially good if you use them with an English or Welsh commander (for the Longbow Volley tactic). However you should keep the archer portion on each of your flanks below 60% to protect against the Charge on Unprotected Flank, which makes combat immediately enter the melee phase.

    Something which surprisingly also works out well are pure pike armies for the Italian and the Scottish. You should however also use a Scottish commander with your Italian pikes.

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    edited February 2014
    I found this gem on the official forums:
    Portal wrote:
    Every time I hold a Blot I raid Rome and capture the Pope. Of course, I have that Dungeons and Sieges mod, so I capture him practically every time... It feels like I'm cheating, but goddamnit, what's the point of holding Blot if you don't sacrifice the Pope?
    The thought of the pope getting abducted by norsemen every eight years is hilarious.

    I'm also wondering how long this event has been in the game:


    Platy on
  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    Since release, its one of the Learning ambition event sequences

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    I expected as much, but this is the first time I saw it in over 200+ hours. I guess I don't try to raise learning that often. I also managed to get Robin Hood as a courtier for the first time.

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Would there be any interest in a new LP of this?

  • AnialosAnialos Collies are love, Collies are life! Shadowbrook ColliesRegistered User regular
    Yes, yes there is.

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Well, here's a couple of possible scenarios for a new LP. Perhaps a few too many, but I hope they seem interesting!

    The Shieldmaiden (Scandinavia, 867) - One woman, one mission: to plunder Europe of its riches and to use them to become the most powerful ruler in the north.

    Æthelred for England (Britannia, 867) - As King of Wessex, we try to withstand the Norse onslaught and unite the warring kingdoms of the Angles and Saxons under one rule.

    Otto the Ambitious (East Francia, 867) - As Duke Otto of Saxony, ancestor of the first Holy Roman Emperor Otto the Great, we try for the ultimate prize: the title of Emperor.

    Zoroastrian Dreams (Persia, 867) - As head of one the last remaining ruling Zoroastrian families, our goal is to defend our faith and to reclaim the Persian Empire.

    Pechenegin' (Eastern Steppes, 867) - As a pagan, Jewish, Nestorian or Manichean ruler, we try to carve out our realm among the nomad tribes of the eastern steppes.

    Finnish Dawn (Scandinavia/Sibiria, 867) - Leading one of the Finno-Ugric tribes of the north, we are beset by our more powerful Norse neighbors. Can we unite the tribes by reforming our ancient religion or will we turn to the Christian god for protection?

    Sicilian Nights (Sicily/Southern Italy, 1066) - As the Norman duke of Apulia, we try to wrest control of Sicily from its Muslim rulers. Afterwards, our task will be to thrive between the powerful empires bordering us.

    I'd also be very interested in playing one of the Celtic rulers, either in 867 or 1066.

  • AnialosAnialos Collies are love, Collies are life! Shadowbrook ColliesRegistered User regular
    I vote Shieldmaiden.

  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    what was my epic lp not concluded satisfyingly enough for you

    also I vote Sicilian

  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    edited February 2014
    So I finally managed to reform a pagan religion and now I'm both King of Sweden and Fylkir. (Turns out it's a lot easier to do as a Norse character if you start as one who actually has land in Scandinavia. Something I'm wondering is does being the religious head of the Norse religion have any not immediately apparent benefits? Like, the pope has so many special powers; does my king now have anything similar to that?

    Gundi on
  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    You can call Great Holy Wars which are the Norse version of crusades.

  • ASimPersonASimPerson Cold... and hard.Registered User regular
    edited February 2014

    Okay I could deal with random castrated spymasters showing up at my court BUT COME ON

    By the way, the options are:
    1) Curiosity has never killed anyone: 50% chance Selbach gains the trait Honest, 35% chance Selbach gains the trait Brave, 10% gains the trait Wounded, 5% gains the trait maimed. Selbach's opinion of Emperor Brandub changes by -200 for 5 years.
    2) Teach him a lesson: 80% Selbach gains the trait Wounded, Selbach's opinion of Emperor Brandub changes by -200 for 5 years, 20% chance Selbach mac Lugaid dies!
    3) Strictly forbid him to climb the tower: 90% chance of Selbach gains the trait Deceitful, 10% chance Selbach gains the trait Craven.

    ASimPerson on
  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    I pretty much always take the ones that might make your heir brave

  • ASimPersonASimPerson Cold... and hard.Registered User regular
    Yeah but the -200 opinion penalty is pretty steep, and he's only a couple years away from his majority. Though he's actually my grandson, it might not have been that bad.

  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    weird that it has a -200 opinion on that one

    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    End wrote: »
    weird that it has a -200 opinion on that one

    Well it depends on what he saw up there...

  • Fleur de AlysFleur de Alys Biohacker Registered User regular
    I vote for Finnish Dawn.

    Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
  • EndEnd Registered User regular

    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of interest, but if I get one or two more votes thrown my way, I'm gonna do it anyway. For funsies.

  • KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular

  • EmporiumEmporium Registered User regular
    Yeah, Finnish dawn sounds good. I've never had the inclination to play a pagan game

  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    Apparently EU4 went on sale for $10 or less at a bunch of digital stores today. Gamefly, Humble Store, GMG, etc.

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    edited February 2014
    Part 1 - Unite the Tribes, 867 - 877

    Note: If you find yourself unable to open spoilers, clearing the cache helps.
    The year is 867 in the Christian kingdoms of the south. Up here in the north, we don't count years, since things around here have always been more or less the same. But this is about to change.


    Meet Aino Virtanen, High Chieftess among the Satakuntans who in 867 dwell in the west of what would one day be known as Finland. She's at this point a mere sixteen years old, having taken control of the tribe after the violent death of her father. To the north and east dwell other, currently more powerful Finnish tribes, the Kvens and the Tavastians. Across the Baltic Sea lies the expanding realm of the warlike Björn Ironside, a son of the legendary viking raider Ragnar Lodbrok. We have many enemies who could threaten the safety and well-being of our tribe, so it's important that we strengthen our position as soon as possible.


    Aino is considered an attractive woman by the standards of her time which is a very useful trait for a female ruler since it provides an opinion boost with most male characters. She's also known for her quick wits and often ruthless cunning, paired with a patient personality. She is however of small frame and prone to frequent bouts of sickness. (I realized too late that the combination of "attractive" and "weak" basically makes her anime waifu, but I'm not redoing this.)


    We go right ahead and choose the "Become King of Finland" ambition which will allow us to repeatedly call wars of subjugation against any other faction with land in the (as yet non-existent) kingdom of Finland.

    But first, we have to strengthen our position inside our own tribe.


    Suomi, to the south of Satakunta, is controlled by Voitto, a minor chief in our tribe who isn't on the best terms with us. We have a 61% chance to imprison Voitto, so we send out our tribesmen to do so.


    In order to gain Voitto's lands, we could have also plotted his murder, but we took the more direct approach. We strip the chiefdom of Suomi from his control.


    We also revoke the city of Turku from its mayor. These actions incur a ten-year opinion penalty with all characters in our realm, but this hardly matters at the moment since we stripped all our vassals of their titles and the penalty won't apply to any new vassals we make. We now have three holdings under our control which increases our income and the amount of troops at our command significantly.


    While we gather brave warriors in our holdings, Aino discovers a deep devotion to her Suomenusko faith.


    We also go looking for a husband. The High Chief of the Slavic Severians, who have their home in the plains of modern-day Russia, has a son, Kreslav, who is an ambitious warrior and cunning schemer. Since he is the second-youngest among his four sons, the High Chief will also accept a matrilineal marriage which means that any children born to the couple will be considered part of the wife's family. Soon, Kreslav shall lead our warriors against our neighbors so the Satakuntans can become the most powerful tribe in Finland. Ukko, Tapio and the other Finnish gods will surely grant our tribe victory.


    Unsurprisingly, it doesn't take long before Aino discovers that she is pregnant.


    A daughter named Ilmatar is born. Later in life, it will become clear that she has inherited her mother's quick wits.


    Childbirth is a dangerous affair in these times, especially for young first-time mothers like Aino. But the gods look kindly on the prayers she offers and it is only a week before they heal her of her fever.


    The year is 869 and we have gathered enough troops in our holdings to take on our neighbors, the tribe of Tavastians. We declare a war of subjugation against their High Chief and appoint Kreslav to lead our army. Our force of mostly light and heavy infantry marches to Uusima, ready to meet the Tavastians in battle. While Kreslav and his warriors lay siege to the wooden fort of the Tavastians, another daughter is born to the couple, who is given the name Mielikki.


    The slightly larger force we brought and Kreslav's martial prowess makes all the difference and the Tavastians are forced to accept our overlordship. We proceed to take direct control of the chiefdom of Häme, which has been mostly untouched by the war, and give the city of Turku to a mayor who will do a better job of administrating it than we can.


    Meanwhile, the king of Svithjod, Björn Ironside, was captured by King Constantine of Scotland while fighting alongside the other sons of Ragnar Lodbrok in Britain. Still, their war against the Christian kingdoms seems to be going well for the sons of Ragnar and their "Great Heathen Army".


    Around this time, the old High Chief of the Severians dies and Kreslav travels back to Russia in order to claim part of his inheritence. He now rules as chief of Bryansk. The position of marshal is given to the former High Chief of Tavastians, Mielus.


    Over in Svithjod, the adult son of Björn Ironside, Eirikr, has taken control of the kingdom after his father's death in the dungeons of King Constantine. There is a small revolt which aims to install Björn's sister Ingjerdr on the throne, but it seems unlikely that it will be successful. The chaos and internal strife caused by Björn's untimely death will give us slightly more time and opportunity to grow before we might come to blows with our Odin-worshipping neighbors.


    After a short while, we declare war against the tribe of Tribe of Käkisalmians who live between the lakes and in the dark woods of eastern Finland. Their smaller force is easily flanked by our larger, more spread-out force and their young High Chief proceeds to lose the battle.


    The lands of the Käkisalmians are added to our territory. We leave all of the local rulers in power since we already are at our demesne limit. We now control the temple of Raviola in the province of Käkisalmi, a holy site of our faith. Meanwhile, a son named Haapa was born to Aino who will be heir to our tribe if we don't fiddle with the succession. Everyone agrees that he is a very cute baby, but he's also a bit small for his age and sickly. A look at Kreslav's page tells me that he probably has been marshal of the Severians for some time now. How he found time to make the long journey to visit his spouse I do not know.


    We now border the Petty Kingdom of Holmgardr, its lands being separated from ours by the river Neva and Lake Ladoga. Holmgardr is ruled by a Varangian named Rurik who is married to Björn Ironside's sister Ingjerdr. Most of his subjects are Slavs and the story goes that they invited him to rule over them so he would establish a stable order. Rurik is one of the most dangerous opponents we could face at this stage of the game, but for now he seems busy assisting his nephew-in-law Eirikr and making war against those tribes of Gardariki which haven't yet accepted his rule.


    Chief Mielus of Uusimaa, who led our warriors against the Käkisalmians, is declared Champion of our tribe. This will increase his opinion of us and thus make it less likely that he will rebel against our rule.


    We next make war against the Kvens of the north. Warriors of the Satakuntans, Tavastians and Käkisalmians march united and capture the Kvens' High Chief in the first battle of the war, thus ending it quickly. By now we've united all the tribes in what is modern-day Finland and our realm stretches to the lands of the midnight sun. The tribes of Karelia will be next - but we will have to be careful, because the more vassals we add to our realm, the more our own power decreases in relation to theirs. This could trigger a crisis in a critical time such as succession. In the near future, we will have to take steps to strengthen our position within our own realm once again.


    Our vassal, the chief of Käkisalmi, dies in battle against the reindeer nomads of the snowy Kola Peninsula. His only child and three-year-old daughter Loviisa inherits his chiefdom. I decide to suggest a betrothal to Aino's son Haapa. After we send a gift to Käkisalmi, her regent consents to the betrothal.


    With five tribes under her rule, Aino now takes to calling herself "High Chieftess of Finland". The old title of "High Chieftess of Satakuntans" is abandoned. Aino's warriors have so far been undefeated in battle. But she still isn't a proper Queen of Finland - we will have to take control of either Karelia or Estonia to claim the more prestigious title. Ten years have passed since the start of the campaign. Around this time, we receive news that Chief Voitto of Suomi has died in one of the pits we had dug at our hill fort to house captives. Apparently we forgot about him and he spent the last ten years subsisting on earthworms and mice. Whoops.

    And so concludes part one. I'm going to end each part with a decision I will pass to you. Also feel free to offer any other suggestions or challenges. The first decision is:

    Should we take control of the lands of our religious brethren in the west, in Finmark and Norrland? This will "save" our brothers and sisters from subjugation by the worshippers of Odin, but it would also propel us into long rivalries with the kingdoms of Sweden and Norway once they form, since those lands are considered part of their de-jure territory.

    Platy on
    ASimPersonGundiPeter EbelVegemyteFleur de AlysKetBraVirgil_Leads_YouSkeith
  • AnialosAnialos Collies are love, Collies are life! Shadowbrook ColliesRegistered User regular
    How much of a chance do you think you stand of taking a big enough portion of those future kingdoms to make their arrival non-consequential? My guess is "not good." I'd probably expand eastward to build strength with which

  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    So... spent about eighty hours playing this game but still learning all the ropes and I gotta say, elective succession is the best. (Assuming you aren't trying to keep two different kingdom titles.) As the Fyklir of the norse, king of Sweden, and Emperor of Scandinavia I've snow balled now owning all of Scandinavia, all of the British Isles, much of the coast of France, Germany, the low counties, and the southern baltics; but I haven't had to worry about any sort of real factions in generations. I've established branches of my family as numerous Jarls and Chiefs in various places over the years, so I always have a good heir somewhere. (It helps that any landed character of my dynasty gets +2 prestige a month because I'm the Fyklir.) Likewise, since I'm not worried about my vassals rebelling I'm not afraid to have powerful vassals who'll help me conquer the Catholics on their own.

    I'm sure it also helps that I've fully upgraded three baronies in my technologically advanced capital, and that I can draw 8000 men from that county alone, or that I have a 12,000 man retinue army consisting of housecarls and skirmishers. It really is true that once you can field the men to safely do it, raiding wealthy, relatively unguarded counties like Rome or Venezia is ridiculously profitable. All that money has fueled a pretty great powerbase. I'd have conquered Rome for fun awhile ago(Crusades be damned, I want to drop Roman Catholic moral authority to as low as it'll go.) but then I'd lose my ability to raid it.

  • BYToadyBYToady Registered User regular
    Gundi, one thing you could try to do, watch Byzantium for the next time it goes into a good sized rebellion and try to raid Constantinople, then, after looting all the provinces (so many cities!) go back and conquer it. Don't give it to anyone else, tech spread works from anywhere if you personally hold all the provinces in question.

    Battletag BYToady#1454
  • Fleur de AlysFleur de Alys Biohacker Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Late response to the Let's Play -- just now seeing it.

    Take Karelia first, but go ahead and pick up the north end of Sweden / Norway as well. In all likelihood they're going to be consistently involved in wars for much richer territory and won't care too much for those lands. In the event that they actually attack you for them, you can always just lose the war and give up those territories. That imposes a peace treaty, giving you more time until they could attack you again for Finland proper. Those wars can also drag out fairly long, because the AI will usually march across land, and it takes forever to walk into / out of those counties, which buys you even more time to be doing other things instead.

    In general, you should be expanding so much faster than the AI that they won't be able to keep up with you. Unless you're unlucky (untimely succession being the most likely problem), you should dwarf Sweden by the time it forms.

    Fleur de Alys on
    Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
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