With all the shit that has happened in the Shadowrun universe, sometimes a dragon is the LEAST of your problems. But one of the truisms that appears on the front cover of Shadowrun is "Never Deal with a Dragon". This goes along with "Geek the mage first" and "Waste Trolls, not Ammo" and "It's not a Shadowrun until your Johnson screws you over twice."
"Geek the mage first" is more of a guideline, I feel.
Sometimes you really want to geek the rigger first.
It's a tough call. Shoot the guy who can fire lightning or turn you to goo or summon spirits that can drown you in the middle of the street, or shoot the guy who can command armored drones with machine guns and rockets.
The original idiom is "Shoot straight. Conserve ammo. And never, ever deal with a dragon."
I was thinking about the cover of the Charrette novel is "Never Deal With a Dragon", sorry.
Which also has been remixed to "The streets say never deal with a dragon. But sometimes that's your only choice to stay alive." Among others.
Note: It's not a Shadowrun unless you are forced to cut a deal with a dragon eventually.
This is true, usually without you knowing about it ahead of time.
I was also never a fan of the Mr. Johnson's regularly screwing you. It's counter productive for them, and the corps that have to keep hiring replacements for a dead Mr. Johnson.
It's a tough call. Shoot the guy who can fire lightning or turn you to goo or summon spirits that can drown you in the middle of the street, or shoot the guy who can command armored drones with machine guns and rockets.
The rigger, traditionally, is nowhere NEAR the drones he/she is commanding, and therefore is not killable when you're in a firefight. Geeking the rigger is something you do ahead of time, typically. A lot of prep for various shadowruns involve compromising or outright murdering the security rigger before the shit hits the fan.
Well 'shoot' as in prevent them from making things very miserable.
Also, in newer editions the rigger (hacker with an extra skill or two) and hacker are mixed in with everyone else, not hiding in the van down by the river or at the coffin motel.
So I just did the sewer run and then the Lodge trial run back to back. Geez, things have turned dark fast compared to the original.
Sewer run went as expected until the end when I decided to make a new deal between the ghouls and the cyberdoc. That did not go as well as I had hoped and the ghouls were pretty sad about being treated as monsters just there to do his dirtywork. That actually made me, the freaking player, sad. Then the Lodge trial run. Holy drek. Everything that could go wrong on that run went wrong and then that ending reveal with poor, innocent Jana being set up as the mass murderer.
I am seriously considering replaying those 2 runs just to see if I can change things for the better.
In regards to the Trial Run,
I don't really think you can change things for the better. The mission and the members were specifically chosen and set up in such a way to maximize the chance of everything going tits up because the Lodge wanted to see how you'd handle a worst case scenario.
I was sad about Jana, but Luca's reaction to finding out that James had survived the entire mission (and James' reaction upon learning he wasn't supposed to) was great.
As to the sewer run,
Yeah you can have a fairly "good" outcome. Well, at least a return to the status quo which the ghouls seem fine with.
Re: Trial Run
I went in relatively quietly (sorry, Lone Star dudes) and things still spiraled out of control, so I'm pretty sure that's guaranteed. I'm not sure if James can die, however; I tried to play it professional and didn't chew him out as much, so maybe he snaps if pressed. I also took the subway hatch out, so I'm curious whether things change based on the overall approach.
I'll say this much: the mission made me wish there was an option to start killing middlemen as a general rule. Of course in Shadowrun you'd be at it pretty much forever. Considering the Lodge objectives were fairly bare-bones in Dragonfall, I'm actually kind of impressed that it got to me.
Also, didn't have enough money for the suit. Being a decker with expensive tastes is suffering.
Re: Sewers
I think they changed the dialogue for dealing with the doctor. Previously you could either attack the ghouls or extort him for a peaceful solution, but I don't recall any speech checks involved. This time some etiquette and pay options showed up, including the Shadowrunner etiquette, which I don't think was used at all in Dragonfall. If I remember correctly, it's a nice touch.
This is true, usually without you knowing about it ahead of time.
I was also never a fan of the Mr. Johnson's regularly screwing you. It's counter productive for them, and the corps that have to keep hiring replacements for a dead Mr. Johnson.
If a Johnson screws you, he should have a good reason. They think they can get away with it (And frequently can), new information makes it lucrative, he wants to tie off loose ends who hold info on him so he tells a nearby gang that the dudes in apartment 4F have like 50k creds there.... you can do it sometimes, as long as there is plot behind it. The idea of Shadowrun is that everyone is out to make a buck, everyone is trying to survive, and so you can't really trust anyone.
I agree completely. However, how useful to a corp is a Mr. J who kills his runners, even 10 percent of the time? That runners will avoid, or even pursue and terminate, causing collateral issues for the corp?
It's a good plot device, but it should make sense in-game, and not be overused. I think it tends to be far overused.
I agree completely. However, how useful to a corp is a Mr. J who kills his runners, even 10 percent of the time? That runners will avoid, or even pursue and terminate, causing collateral issues for the corp?
It's a good plot device, but it should make sense in-game, and not be overused. I think it tends to be far overused.
It's pretty much a cliche, but there are PLENTY of reasons to screw over the runners. For the Hans Brackhaus example, you tell the runners that you're Hans Brackhaus, screw over your group of runners, and now they have a vendetta against Saeder-Krupp (if they live), which is a rival of your corporation. If they don't kill themselves going after Lofwyr's baby, at the very least, they won't suspect your corporation of wrongdoing.
Runners are SINless, generally (they are zeros in the system, have no ID). So they are nobodies and thus disposable. The vast majority of runners are fresh on the job, too, and itching to make a name for themselves, which makes them vulnerable. The runners' fixer, if they are good at their job, will try to avoid picking missions for their runners that will get them killed or betrayed, but sometimes they have no choice either (cue cheesy movie plot, like kidnapped family members or repaying a long-time debt).
For another perspective, in my current 5th edition campaign, we have a recurring Johnson who keeps getting us these awful jobs, but he's not malevolently trying to screw us over... he's just enormously incompetent. He tells us the wrong information (he was drunk and mistook our actual extraction target for a job to extract a Kobe beef cow), he gets us jobs which are too "hot", and he even has us break into buildings to rewire the lights so he can impress one of his mistresses, but he's an idiot and not a villain. We keep telling him that we refuse to work with him, but something always comes up, plot-wise, that gets us involved.
Also, 5th edition kind of returns the rigger to the role of being in a van down by the river. :-P There are more reasons than ever for a hacker to be in the middle of the fray (Data Spike FTW!), but riggers are back to being a remote specialist.
Well, don't mean to double post, but this is an odd, uh, bug.
So I am playing as Eiger now.
We were in combat and my main was 1 turn away from dying. That same turn we finished off the last of the enemies, but before I could do anything a conversation started at the same moment my main keeled over for good.
After the conversation, Eiger was the character I was controlling. My main is nowhere to be seen. In fact even the character screen is all Eiger included the Stats screen and Cyberware screens.
I am uncertain if I actually want this fixed. :P
that bug was there back in the first release of the dlc, you could walk outside in the hub and then switch to anyone in the whole area, dante included.
Your DM is a genius for being able to use a me j like that. And keep you guys still going to him.
And you just have to be upfront with your Mr Js... Tell him you are aware that screwing over runners is part of the gig and that its also business when we come back for you and sell you piecemeal to the Tamanous rippers. I usually have welding goggles on when I mention that line...
Playing through the DC. My first time on the dlc version I was a Gun based street sam who ended up with a minigun and a lot of chrome. Was death incarnate on a single target. This game I went rigger/decker human. I have stopped carrying weapons and just have my deck and two drones.
I am now running 6 ap a turn of drone death. It is amazing game wise. I have a level 3 deck. So still better than the idiot.
The upgrades are also pretty excellent. Little things and big things. If I had to pay 20 for it I would of felt it was worth.
Also Dragonfall story and world building wise is one of my favorite rpgs of the last few years.
There have definitely been changes to existing mission dialogue. Just got through Loose Ends:
Turned down Thorvald's offer and killed him as instructed. In the original Dragonfall the after-mission comments by the crew suggested they knew he was responsible for the massacres upstairs, and were more or less fine just killing him. This time their responses are more hesitant; Eiger's as usual, but Dietrich and Glory remark that maybe we should have given him a chance.
You know, it'd be nice if, just once, a run went off without a hitch. Sure, it might not be much fun in gameplay terms, but just think of how surprising a story twist it would be.
Anyway, found a rather annoying bug. I'm playing a Shaman, so I got a free Idol spell. This means that if there are X spell slots in my spellbook, I can take X+1 spells with me (the +1 being the Idol spell). Unfortunately, there are only X spell slots on the UI, with no room for the +1. So if I max out my spellbook when I go on a run, the CPU gets all confused and one of my spells randomly gets lost.
This is quite annoying. The only solution I've found so far is to just take one spell less with me than I can, but that's hardly an ideal solution.
I just did the run to retrieve the bioware for the cyberdoc. Wow. After the darkness of the past few runs this one was a pure delight. When that battle music kicked in for the finale I actually burst out laughing. It's good to see that they're capable of writing lighter, humorous missions as well.
I just did the run to retrieve the bioware for the cyberdoc. Wow. After the darkness of the past few runs this one was a pure delight. When that battle music kicked in for the finale I actually burst out laughing. It's good to see that they're capable of writing lighter, humorous missions as well.
And yet...
You're talking about a mission where a guy has to grow and eat human organs to survive.
You're talking about a mission where a guy has to grow and eat human organs to survive.
'Light' is clearly relative.
Well yeah. The actual background of the story was pretty dark but the run itself was quite amusing. I just played along with him and did everything I could to help as I was plundering everything that wasn't nailed down in the place. Then I was rewarded by his army of "peasants" coming to my aid at the end with that sweet, sweet music.
Heads up if anyone wants to play custom content from the original game or Dead Man's Switch, in the Directors Cut engine.
For Dead Man's Switch, copy the data folder and the project.cpack.bytes file from your Shadowrun Returns install\Shadowrun_Data\StreamingAssets\ContentPacks\dead_mans_switch
to:
Dragonfall DC install\Dragonfall_Data\StreamingAssets\ContentPacks\dead_mans_switch
For custom content, copy everything from Steam\userdata\numbers\234650\local\ugc to Steam\userdata\numbers\300550\local\ugc\
It's not officially supported however so you may encounter some weird bugs and balance issues due to the revised gameplay mechanics. Also note that custom content won't automatically update if you import it into Dragonfall DC.
This is on one of the new missions. Putting it in spoilers.
This is on Blitz's personal mission. Which is a cool idea btw. Every time it swaps initially between Blitz and myself It would either not let me control Blitz, black screen or just break. Would have to save before I went into the net and then reload till it worked. Finally got through that.
So Blitz died against the human decker at the end so I had to redo that part.
The load bugged out. My accountant didn't follow me into the room. So it was me, my drones verse 4. And it fucked their ai a bit. And then the spawn happened and I was able to grenade them with him on the other side twice before they came in letting me just mop up.
Mission is awesome and challenging(Playing on hard) but the bugs!
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Fleebhas all of the fleeb juiceRegistered Userregular
Ok yeah, King Phillips peasant revolt was fucking awesome.
Just finished Eiger's personal run. Man, whoever wrote that really was paying attention to all the players who complained about her lack of a mid-range weapon in the original DLC. Her speech about it was nearly 4th wall breaking in its specificity regarding her distaste for carrying yet another weapon just to handle the mid-range when she considers herself a sniper.
TalonSE on
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Fleebhas all of the fleeb juiceRegistered Userregular
Anybody used the platelet factory bioware? What exactly does it do?
Anybody used the platelet factory bioware? What exactly does it do?
I had the same question so I bought it to see. It's essentially a bioware version of Heal Wound. 1 AP to activate, recovers the HP from the last wound you received, has a 2 turn cooldown.
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Fleebhas all of the fleeb juiceRegistered Userregular
A neat little run but the ending was kind of frustrating. I told the guy that I wouldn't be his mindless goon, and then he didn't pay me! Just because I don't want to do any more missions for you doesn't mean you don't owe me my money you son of a bitch!
Also James was annoying as hell, were you even able to kill him? The Lodge guy is surprised that he is still alive but I never saw an option to kill him.
Really love the directors cut. The added missions are pretty good so far. It'll be interesting to see if any of the new missions can beat Knight-Kings of Lightning Hold. Doing the special mission for Blitz and it's not as awesome but there are some choice moments here.
Like Blitz wanting to backstab Grinder for a mystery box even though he has no clue what's inside. And the fact that he had no extraction plan whatsoever.
Really love the directors cut. The added missions are pretty good so far. It'll be interesting to see if any of the new missions can beat Knight-Kings of Lightning Hold. Doing the special mission for Blitz and it's not as awesome but there are some choice moments here.
Like Blitz wanting to backstab Grinder for a mystery box even though he has no clue what's inside. And the fact that he had no extraction plan whatsoever.
I really enjoyed Blitz's mission, even if that final fight got a bit tedious.
I burned through his programs earlier in the mission, so he had to fight the enemy decker solo while also hitting the turrets. Even just the attacker would've helped in pinning the enemy program down with tar bomb. As-is I basically had to rush the boss while the PC and Hasenkamp tried to hold out.
In any case, it was a neat twist on the usual decking-heavy mission - finally a situation where the decker can do their thing remotely - and it was cool to uncover the wider plot against everyone by Grinder. And Blitz is such a doofus, I can't help but like the guy even when his incompetence isn't faked.
Eiger's was kind of dull in my opinion, not to mention short, but Glory's was very interesting. I'm curious if it changes depending on
whether you encourage her to kill Harrow instead of rescue the kids. I got her to spare Marta, and even though she joined to fight the spirit I got the impression Harrow still had a hold on her. I also didn't do as much poking around the cottage as I could have, given the stealthier aim of the mission. Lot of things to try on another go-round.
Overall I've been pretty impressed with the new missions, and there have been enough smaller tweaks to (some) existing missions to keep my interest. On the Azzie run, there's now an option to
blind the blood mages if you have the appropriate cyberware for the eyes. Didn't get to try it, but I assume it works like the Quickness check in giving you a free attack round. Also, the guards from the previous checkpoint now join the fight if you didn't kill them earlier.
Being able to loan weapons is a nice touch. Giving Eiger an assault rifle is one of the smarter things I've done with my nuyen.
Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
Really thinking about rerolling.
I started this character to eventually get the minigun but thats later in the game, right now the playthrough feels a lil too similar to my first run of Dragonfall with this kind of build. Going to go melee or throwing weapons, I think.
I'm loving the Director's Cut and all, but it is in need of a bug-fixing patch.
Apart from the disappearing spells I mentioned previously, Blitz's bonus skill doesn't actually do anything and if you upgrade his Mark Target ability it just removes it from his skill pool entirely. Also, I'm reasonably sure some of the Achievements are broken.
Posts
"Geek the mage first" is more of a guideline, I feel.
Sometimes you really want to geek the rigger first.
Which also has been remixed to "The streets say never deal with a dragon. But sometimes that's your only choice to stay alive." Among others.
Note: It's not a Shadowrun unless you are forced to cut a deal with a dragon eventually.
I was also never a fan of the Mr. Johnson's regularly screwing you. It's counter productive for them, and the corps that have to keep hiring replacements for a dead Mr. Johnson.
Also, in newer editions the rigger (hacker with an extra skill or two) and hacker are mixed in with everyone else, not hiding in the van down by the river or at the coffin motel.
Re: Trial Run
I'll say this much: the mission made me wish there was an option to start killing middlemen as a general rule. Of course in Shadowrun you'd be at it pretty much forever. Considering the Lodge objectives were fairly bare-bones in Dragonfall, I'm actually kind of impressed that it got to me.
Also, didn't have enough money for the suit. Being a decker with expensive tastes is suffering.
Re: Sewers
If a Johnson screws you, he should have a good reason. They think they can get away with it (And frequently can), new information makes it lucrative, he wants to tie off loose ends who hold info on him so he tells a nearby gang that the dudes in apartment 4F have like 50k creds there.... you can do it sometimes, as long as there is plot behind it. The idea of Shadowrun is that everyone is out to make a buck, everyone is trying to survive, and so you can't really trust anyone.
It's a good plot device, but it should make sense in-game, and not be overused. I think it tends to be far overused.
Runners are SINless, generally (they are zeros in the system, have no ID). So they are nobodies and thus disposable. The vast majority of runners are fresh on the job, too, and itching to make a name for themselves, which makes them vulnerable. The runners' fixer, if they are good at their job, will try to avoid picking missions for their runners that will get them killed or betrayed, but sometimes they have no choice either (cue cheesy movie plot, like kidnapped family members or repaying a long-time debt).
For another perspective, in my current 5th edition campaign, we have a recurring Johnson who keeps getting us these awful jobs, but he's not malevolently trying to screw us over... he's just enormously incompetent. He tells us the wrong information (he was drunk and mistook our actual extraction target for a job to extract a Kobe beef cow), he gets us jobs which are too "hot", and he even has us break into buildings to rewire the lights so he can impress one of his mistresses, but he's an idiot and not a villain. We keep telling him that we refuse to work with him, but something always comes up, plot-wise, that gets us involved.
Also, 5th edition kind of returns the rigger to the role of being in a van down by the river. :-P There are more reasons than ever for a hacker to be in the middle of the fray (Data Spike FTW!), but riggers are back to being a remote specialist.
that bug was there back in the first release of the dlc, you could walk outside in the hub and then switch to anyone in the whole area, dante included.
And you just have to be upfront with your Mr Js... Tell him you are aware that screwing over runners is part of the gig and that its also business when we come back for you and sell you piecemeal to the Tamanous rippers. I usually have welding goggles on when I mention that line...
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
Despite having a part in her trauma himself, he does still seem to be abit sweet on her. Still a bastard though.
I am now running 6 ap a turn of drone death. It is amazing game wise. I have a level 3 deck. So still better than the idiot.
The upgrades are also pretty excellent. Little things and big things. If I had to pay 20 for it I would of felt it was worth.
Also Dragonfall story and world building wise is one of my favorite rpgs of the last few years.
Gonna keep an eye out for more of this stuff.
Anyway, found a rather annoying bug. I'm playing a Shaman, so I got a free Idol spell. This means that if there are X spell slots in my spellbook, I can take X+1 spells with me (the +1 being the Idol spell). Unfortunately, there are only X spell slots on the UI, with no room for the +1. So if I max out my spellbook when I go on a run, the CPU gets all confused and one of my spells randomly gets lost.
This is quite annoying. The only solution I've found so far is to just take one spell less with me than I can, but that's hardly an ideal solution.
And yet...
'Light' is clearly relative.
Well yeah. The actual background of the story was pretty dark but the run itself was quite amusing. I just played along with him and did everything I could to help as I was plundering everything that wasn't nailed down in the place. Then I was rewarded by his army of "peasants" coming to my aid at the end with that sweet, sweet music.
Really regretting not taking Academic for my last etiquette.
This is on one of the new missions. Putting it in spoilers.
So Blitz died against the human decker at the end so I had to redo that part.
The load bugged out. My accountant didn't follow me into the room. So it was me, my drones verse 4. And it fucked their ai a bit. And then the spawn happened and I was able to grenade them with him on the other side twice before they came in letting me just mop up.
Mission is awesome and challenging(Playing on hard) but the bugs!
That would be Knight-King Philips.
And a couple of ghouls helped me out with that bomb situation in the sewers. Neat little change.
Also James was annoying as hell, were you even able to kill him? The Lodge guy is surprised that he is still alive but I never saw an option to kill him.
I really enjoyed Blitz's mission, even if that final fight got a bit tedious.
In any case, it was a neat twist on the usual decking-heavy mission - finally a situation where the decker can do their thing remotely - and it was cool to uncover the wider plot against everyone by Grinder. And Blitz is such a doofus, I can't help but like the guy even when his incompetence isn't faked.
Eiger's was kind of dull in my opinion, not to mention short, but Glory's was very interesting. I'm curious if it changes depending on
Overall I've been pretty impressed with the new missions, and there have been enough smaller tweaks to (some) existing missions to keep my interest. On the Azzie run, there's now an option to
Being able to loan weapons is a nice touch. Giving Eiger an assault rifle is one of the smarter things I've done with my nuyen.
I started this character to eventually get the minigun but thats later in the game, right now the playthrough feels a lil too similar to my first run of Dragonfall with this kind of build. Going to go melee or throwing weapons, I think.
Apart from the disappearing spells I mentioned previously, Blitz's bonus skill doesn't actually do anything and if you upgrade his Mark Target ability it just removes it from his skill pool entirely. Also, I'm reasonably sure some of the Achievements are broken.