Pretty hard to get the best outcome for the Whampoa mission a second time.
Yeah, I noticed on repeat attempts that it's easy to skip dialogue that lets you present evidence; in one case I still got the good ending, in another I didn't. It's well structured, with multiple ways to collect the same pieces of information, but I'm still not clear on the exact amount of evidence needed to properly reveal what happened.
Specifically,
getting into the parking garage seems necessary, as every other conversation track wasn't enough. However, deciphering the armor fragment seems optional - I mentioned the basic analysis of the garage firefight without revealing the details of the armor - and it's possible some of the other minor bits could be skipped as well. It may be that there are particular flags to check, and everything beyond that is just background information.
I'll do some more testing on my next run. It's fun to pick these systems apart and see how they tick.
Pretty hard to get the best outcome for the Whampoa mission a second time.
Yeah, I noticed on repeat attempts that it's easy to skip dialogue that lets you present evidence; in one case I still got the good ending, in another I didn't. It's well structured, with multiple ways to collect the same pieces of information, but I'm still not clear on the exact amount of evidence needed to properly reveal what happened.
Specifically,
getting into the parking garage seems necessary, as every other conversation track wasn't enough. However, deciphering the armor fragment seems optional - I mentioned the basic analysis of the garage firefight without revealing the details of the armor - and it's possible some of the other minor bits could be skipped as well. It may be that there are particular flags to check, and everything beyond that is just background information.
I'll do some more testing on my next run. It's fun to pick these systems apart and see how they tick.
Is the best ending
The elder's voluntarily surrender?
Because I got that without
getting past the gang in the parking garage.
+1
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
Re: whampoa:
I wonder if it requires some total amount of evidence rather than any one specific piece. Because in multiple restarts of the mission, the parking garage was mandatory, but I didn't have anyone in my party who could assense the body so I was already down one clue.
Plague Barrier or Devil Rat fetish, which you one do you prefer?
I really, really like the extra spirit summon. I am bad about hoarding - I'm always the guy who finishes a Final Fantasy game with like 98 Megalixirs because I was like UGH FINE and made myself use one on the last boss fight - so I kept not using Gobbet's default fetishes because I thought I might need them later. Having another reusable one kind of short-circuited that awful hoarding instinct and freed me up to use them all more often.
I want to give Gobbet Lightning Barrier. That one is more than enough.
I wonder what they could to future games. I hope a change in the D&D 3.0 -> 3.5 style could be made to the ruleset. Shamans could use a little extra complexity.
HBS doesn't seem interested in advancing the timeline.
Archsorcerer on
XBL - ArchSilversmith
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
0
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
I want to give Gobbet Lightning Barrier. That one is more than enough.
I wonder what they could to future games. I hope a change in the D&D 3.0 -> 3.5 style could be made to the ruleset. Shamans could use a little extra complexity.
HBS doesn't seem interested in advancing the timeline.
I definitely wouldn't mind a bit of extra depth to the ruleset in general. The power-based system they have right now, where moving up a skill tree unlocks new cool things for you to do with that weapon, is pretty nice, but it would be neat if we had a broader array of universal options that everyone could do, like taking an AP to go prone behind cover to increase its value, or taking an AP to line up a more accurate shot, or whatever.
Shamans and other people who rely on consumables definitely need some love. Designing your own bound spirit a la the tabletop would be fantastic, but at the very least giving people a refreshing fetish item based on their totem would be a big step in the right direction.
As for the timeline, yeah. I imagine HBS might inch forward on it a bit, like the next time they visit Seattle I'm sure it will be post-Universal Brotherhood, but the studio is run by guys who worked on the IP in the 90s so that material is probably nearest and dearest to their hearts.
I just hope that, like they have so far, they continue to tell their own stories and kind of step lightly around Shadowrun's metaplot. Almost every major tabletop RPG dev has left metaplot back in the 90s where it belongs and Shadowrun's metaplot, particularly the 2060's stuff, gets kind of dorky. Like, I love the world, but I just super do not care about Richard Villiers and Art Dankwalther and all that kind of thing.
I like the backstory being there, but I always felt it was best suited for backstory - not involving players directly into these world changing plots.
I mean, for example - having insect spirits show up here and there - good. Having the players be the folks who triggered the Cermack nuke in Chicago - bad.
Being involved in fallout from Deus and the arcology takeover - good. Having them be the ones fighting with Dodger and destroying (or did they dun dun duuun) the AI - bad.
But, as the story continued and the IP changed hands, alot of the tightly woven strands seemed to fray, that's for sure.
The most recent metaplot is one of the dumbest metaplots I've ever read. It's nanotech that infects humans and reprograms their personality entirely. Except that it does it incompletely, so people end up with multiple personalities. They call it the Sybil virus. Bleh. I mean, if you want a cyberpunk plot that involves multiple personalities, you can just run Dreamchipper (which is a far better and more believable take on the whole thing). As it stands, the Sybil virus metaplot is just to roll back all of the nanotech that they introduced in Shadowrun 3rd and 4th edition to set the technology level back a decade. In other words, "We didn't make up new rules for Nanotech yet in 5th edition, so... let's write a metaplot that gets rid of Nanotech".
The Technomancer boogeyman thing was well-done, I thought. It's a lot of great plot hooks that work across multiple settings. The Netcat and Slamm0! interactions are really cute, too, and I love the antipathy between Clockwork and Netcat.
And one of the most beloved Shadowrun module series in 1st edition was Harlequin and Harlequin's Back, and those are EPIC and world-changing in scale. I see nothing wrong with involving the PCs in the canon tightly, as long as everyone at the table are having a good time.* Although my favorite method of involving the canon is being "The Other Guys". You know those professionals that go in and do their job and are awesome (SG-1)? You aren't those guys. You are the B-team who were sent to collect rock samples in the middle of nowhere, but somehow you STILL get in trouble (SG-12). It's also the plot of Final Fantasy X in Mordor erm, Lord of the Rings: The Third Age. I was highly amused by running through Moria, looking down a cliff, and seeing the Fellowship run across the Bridge of Khazad Dum.
* The cardinal rule of RPGs: No, it's not "The DM is always right". It's "Is everyone having fun?" It's a game!
Of the 2050s, what hasn't HBS explored? The big thing missing is the Amazonian conflict.
Quite a bit. Blood Magic, the fallout from Dunkelzahn's Election/Will, Winternight, the big Seattle Mob War, the rise of Masaru, Fuchi dismantling, just to name a few. The 2050s has a lot of events yet to cover beyond 2055.
A question, to the PnP players. Which shamans are more reliable, Rat or Coyote? Just finished Gobbet's mission yesterday.
Depends on the part of the world that you're from. But in North American traditions, you can rely on Rat to be a coward and to live to fight another day, while Coyote shamans tend to be either Wise and Inscrutable or just plain Trickster and Random. Rat shamans in Eastern traditions often follow the Chinese stereotype of Rat (as in Year of the Rat), which is intelligent, quick-witted, and economical but often timid, stubborn. (or something like that). Gobbet is more likely the latter.
Which are considered the best totems / mentor spirits?
I'm not sure I understand the question. It's primarily a roleplaying choice. It's like a Joan of Arcadia thing... what if God spoke directly to YOU and annoyed you at critical times of your life? In the fiction, you don't choose your totem, your totem chooses you (or you come to a mutual agreement, but yeah... the totem and you enter a pact, and it's not completely within your agency, unlike Summoning).
There are mechanical benefits to picking a mentor spirit/totem/paragon/path, so some people choose a totem based on, say, you get +2 to Combat spells or with Bear shamans, you get +2 to damage resistance tests (better than a Troll! and god help you if you run into a Troll Bear Adept) and +2 to Health spells.
Best totem for what, really? One of my players was playing a Miko who cared for the temple of Amaterasu, but her roleplaying benefit was solely because she liked burning things and used the power of the Sun Goddess to fry her enemies before her.
EDIT: In terms of Shadowrun Hong Kong, some folks pop a few points into Conjuring solely to pick up a totem, which gives you a benefit that stacks with other benefits, like extra dodge percentage or a bonus healing spell or higher health pool.
EDIT 2: While I wouldn't consider them wholly evil and more like corrupted, there are Toxic mentors, which tutor Toxic Shamans. And there are Insect Shamans, who follow an insect totem, which wouldn't be so evil if it weren't for the fact that they want the Sixth World to be taken over by bug spirits. Blood mages don't follow a "Blood" mentor spirit, but those that have mentor spirits usually have cultural totem-types which have no qualms with human sacrifice.
My favorite shaman character was Coyote. No bonuses/penalties (back in those days before it became the Trickster totem), but lots of good roleplay material.
My favorite shaman character was Coyote. No bonuses/penalties (back in those days before it became the Trickster totem), but lots of good roleplay material.
Coyote was listed as the Trickster totem in 1st edition. It says it straight-up in the description, I believe. No bonuses or penalties, but that was preserved all the way up until 5th edition, I think. Also, 3rd edition introduced a second Coyote totem to represent the mythos of South American Coyote, I believe (that may just be a fan sourcebook, though. It's been ages).
The "Trickster" teutonic demigod was a different mentor spirit entirely.
Nope, Trickster (as a separate totem) didn't come around until later (I think 2nd edition magic splat book). 1st edition did mention that Coyote was viewed as a trickster character, according to some Native American views.
Newer editions also gave the totem bonus/penalties like the other totems.
Nope, Trickster (as a separate totem) didn't come around until later (I think 2nd edition magic splat book). 1st edition did mention that Coyote was viewed as a trickster character, according to some Native American views.
Newer editions also gave the totem bonus/penalties like the other totems.
We're arguing semantics here. And I agree with you, the separate Trickster separate totem was added when they added all the teutonic demigod archetypes.
Coyote's so tricky, that he was The Trickster all along!
(Mark Hamill totally voices Coyote in my head-canon Shadowrun team)
hah, finally beat the game, finally I can come in and talk about it. fucking called it with the Yama Kings.
I know I should have picked an adept or a mage type for this game, but I can't quite my smooth talking combat decker. I just love fucking people over on the matrix and social engineering them. Yea, that meant I didn't really fit into Hong Kong like I fit into the Flux, but then again, I kinda played it like that. I could swim in these dangerous waters, but I wasn't part of the ecosystem. I was here to do a job and avenge the old man, and that was that.
I do think its kinda funny that my character was able to keep on top of all the decker stuff even with being in prison for your backstory, but maybe my guy is just that into it.
It was a fun and good game, but it didn't have dragonfall's spark.
And you all probably think I'm a monster, but I couldn't accept Gaichu into the team. I've always had a thing about ghouls and its just NOPE NOPE NOPE. If I could have gotten him some help, yea I'd have sent him that way, but I couldn't so... sorry man, you could lose yourself and infect everyone.
That's been my push button even in pnp, and I hated trampling on another player's idea, but everyone had to be infected or no one was infected. Honestly though, I always thought that being a ghoul character in pnp meant that player was legally allowed to grief and just kill because it was ''what their character NEEDED to do to in order to live"
And you all probably think I'm a monster, but I couldn't accept Gaichu into the team. I've always had a thing about ghouls and its just NOPE NOPE NOPE. If I could have gotten him some help, yea I'd have sent him that way, but I couldn't so... sorry man, you could lose yourself and infect everyone.
So racist. :P
XBL - ArchSilversmith
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
You might not have even forgotten to get the safe key. I had to reload it day before yesterday because it let me open the safe but wouldn't let me grab the laser.
Posts
I bought two cheap points in Dodge, but I mostly relied on armor, with Martial Defense to prevent crits
Not a lot on the wikis.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Yeah, I noticed on repeat attempts that it's easy to skip dialogue that lets you present evidence; in one case I still got the good ending, in another I didn't. It's well structured, with multiple ways to collect the same pieces of information, but I'm still not clear on the exact amount of evidence needed to properly reveal what happened.
Specifically,
I'll do some more testing on my next run. It's fun to pick these systems apart and see how they tick.
But after the text ends I got the "Objective Complete" message. What? I just arrived after finishing the sewers section!
If you attack the Red Spears shouldn't you get some evidence from reading the messages in the PDA?
I'm thinking that should open up some new options with Demergo, the NYPD guy.
Also, if you increase your biotech skill during the mission you don't get to access the dialogue option
It needs to be done before you start it.
I should have gone with AR instead of SMG. Cobra helps it much more.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Is the best ending
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
I really, really like the extra spirit summon. I am bad about hoarding - I'm always the guy who finishes a Final Fantasy game with like 98 Megalixirs because I was like UGH FINE and made myself use one on the last boss fight - so I kept not using Gobbet's default fetishes because I thought I might need them later. Having another reusable one kind of short-circuited that awful hoarding instinct and freed me up to use them all more often.
I wonder what they could to future games. I hope a change in the D&D 3.0 -> 3.5 style could be made to the ruleset. Shamans could use a little extra complexity.
HBS doesn't seem interested in advancing the timeline.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
I definitely wouldn't mind a bit of extra depth to the ruleset in general. The power-based system they have right now, where moving up a skill tree unlocks new cool things for you to do with that weapon, is pretty nice, but it would be neat if we had a broader array of universal options that everyone could do, like taking an AP to go prone behind cover to increase its value, or taking an AP to line up a more accurate shot, or whatever.
Shamans and other people who rely on consumables definitely need some love. Designing your own bound spirit a la the tabletop would be fantastic, but at the very least giving people a refreshing fetish item based on their totem would be a big step in the right direction.
As for the timeline, yeah. I imagine HBS might inch forward on it a bit, like the next time they visit Seattle I'm sure it will be post-Universal Brotherhood, but the studio is run by guys who worked on the IP in the 90s so that material is probably nearest and dearest to their hearts.
I just hope that, like they have so far, they continue to tell their own stories and kind of step lightly around Shadowrun's metaplot. Almost every major tabletop RPG dev has left metaplot back in the 90s where it belongs and Shadowrun's metaplot, particularly the 2060's stuff, gets kind of dorky. Like, I love the world, but I just super do not care about Richard Villiers and Art Dankwalther and all that kind of thing.
I mean, for example - having insect spirits show up here and there - good. Having the players be the folks who triggered the Cermack nuke in Chicago - bad.
Being involved in fallout from Deus and the arcology takeover - good. Having them be the ones fighting with Dodger and destroying (or did they dun dun duuun) the AI - bad.
But, as the story continued and the IP changed hands, alot of the tightly woven strands seemed to fray, that's for sure.
The Technomancer boogeyman thing was well-done, I thought. It's a lot of great plot hooks that work across multiple settings. The Netcat and Slamm0! interactions are really cute, too, and I love the antipathy between Clockwork and Netcat.
And one of the most beloved Shadowrun module series in 1st edition was Harlequin and Harlequin's Back, and those are EPIC and world-changing in scale. I see nothing wrong with involving the PCs in the canon tightly, as long as everyone at the table are having a good time.* Although my favorite method of involving the canon is being "The Other Guys". You know those professionals that go in and do their job and are awesome (SG-1)? You aren't those guys. You are the B-team who were sent to collect rock samples in the middle of nowhere, but somehow you STILL get in trouble (SG-12). It's also the plot of Final Fantasy X in Mordor erm, Lord of the Rings: The Third Age. I was highly amused by running through Moria, looking down a cliff, and seeing the Fellowship run across the Bridge of Khazad Dum.
* The cardinal rule of RPGs: No, it's not "The DM is always right". It's "Is everyone having fun?" It's a game!
Gaichu provides enough lore on Japan. He mentioned moving to Lagos someday.
I want to see the South of what was the USA in a game. Voodoo shamans can be found there and plenty of stuff from the Caribbean (pirates!).
I should just play XCOM.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
"Loose cannon!"
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
There are mechanical benefits to picking a mentor spirit/totem/paragon/path, so some people choose a totem based on, say, you get +2 to Combat spells or with Bear shamans, you get +2 to damage resistance tests (better than a Troll! and god help you if you run into a Troll Bear Adept) and +2 to Health spells.
Best totem for what, really? One of my players was playing a Miko who cared for the temple of Amaterasu, but her roleplaying benefit was solely because she liked burning things and used the power of the Sun Goddess to fry her enemies before her.
EDIT: In terms of Shadowrun Hong Kong, some folks pop a few points into Conjuring solely to pick up a totem, which gives you a benefit that stacks with other benefits, like extra dodge percentage or a bonus healing spell or higher health pool.
EDIT 2: While I wouldn't consider them wholly evil and more like corrupted, there are Toxic mentors, which tutor Toxic Shamans. And there are Insect Shamans, who follow an insect totem, which wouldn't be so evil if it weren't for the fact that they want the Sixth World to be taken over by bug spirits. Blood mages don't follow a "Blood" mentor spirit, but those that have mentor spirits usually have cultural totem-types which have no qualms with human sacrifice.
The "Trickster" teutonic demigod was a different mentor spirit entirely.
Newer editions also gave the totem bonus/penalties like the other totems.
Coyote's so tricky, that he was The Trickster all along!
(Mark Hamill totally voices Coyote in my head-canon Shadowrun team)
I think it's from "The Flash". Current series, on the CW. Hamill plays the Trickster in it.
It's a pretty decent show, especially if you can deal with CW-ness.
Why I fear the ocean.
Met with Izzy's contact from Europe.
There should be more fanart. I wonder if there is one of Gaichu saying itadakimasu! before a meal.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
I know I should have picked an adept or a mage type for this game, but I can't quite my smooth talking combat decker. I just love fucking people over on the matrix and social engineering them. Yea, that meant I didn't really fit into Hong Kong like I fit into the Flux, but then again, I kinda played it like that. I could swim in these dangerous waters, but I wasn't part of the ecosystem. I was here to do a job and avenge the old man, and that was that.
I do think its kinda funny that my character was able to keep on top of all the decker stuff even with being in prison for your backstory, but maybe my guy is just that into it.
It was a fun and good game, but it didn't have dragonfall's spark.
And you all probably think I'm a monster, but I couldn't accept Gaichu into the team. I've always had a thing about ghouls and its just NOPE NOPE NOPE. If I could have gotten him some help, yea I'd have sent him that way, but I couldn't so... sorry man, you could lose yourself and infect everyone.
That's been my push button even in pnp, and I hated trampling on another player's idea, but everyone had to be infected or no one was infected. Honestly though, I always thought that being a ghoul character in pnp meant that player was legally allowed to grief and just kill because it was ''what their character NEEDED to do to in order to live"
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
So racist. :P
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
I hate it when I forget stuff like that.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Is that a bug?
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
I feel like this time runs are shorter in comparison to Dragonfall. Compact but with more dialogue and descriptions.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA