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[TF2] Map Fortress 2: Pound Nails Into Your Dicks With Hammer!

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    PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Half of that has already been done

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    here's a decent argument for a tf3...

    http://youtu.be/mT6iyZ16wkk

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    UEAKCrashUEAKCrash heh Registered User regular
    STAR played Nippletwister and not Trainsawlaser. :(

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    Isn't Valve technically losing money on TF2 (and also DOTA2, as they serve the same purpose)? I mean, hat sales can't possibly offbalance the costs of continuous maintenance and constant updating on a game for seven-odd years. Besides, even if they're making money on TF2, that amount is vastly dwarfed by what they make from their cut of the fifteen bazillion daily game sales on Steam. TF2 and DOTA serve the purpose as 'really good free game that you can only get if you have Steam', so people get Steam for the really good free stuff on it then are suckered into giving Valve all their money during sales.

    This guy sums it up pretty well:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYE5cxQrIp8

    (but I'd very much like to see a TF2.5 when their new engine is done, which is something I could definitely see them doing as a sort of tech demo thing that everyone can try)

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    tf2 is also a testbed for new ideas

    i.e. the entire free-to-play model that is now standard industry wide

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    gtrmpgtrmp Registered User regular
    Isn't Valve technically losing money on TF2 (and also DOTA2, as they serve the same purpose)? I mean, hat sales can't possibly offbalance the costs of continuous maintenance and constant updating on a game for seven-odd years.

    If they weren't making money off of a game, they wouldn't still be updating them regularly. Portal 2 (which also had hats) only saw the one post-launch DLC update before they released the level creator and left any further updates up to the community; if Valve were selling lots of P2 hats (or, like, any P2 hats at all) I'm sure they'd still be releasing a new DLC pack each year.

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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    valve is not a typical company

    a product does not necessarily have to be profitable monetarily for them to support it, as long as it's providing other value

    that said I don't believe that TF2 isn't profitable

    they aren't spending much money on it, especially lately, and at this point all it's doing is collecting hat money

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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    I mean think about the actual costs of TF2

    They've got a few servers, but it's nothing like say an MMO has to deal with

    they occasionally release patches, but it's not like they've got any kind of major staff to pay to maintain it

    they host downloading the free client it on their own very profitable service, so it's really a drop in the bucket there

    Meanwhile they charge 10 bucks a hat. Or better yet, sell keys for stranges, items that people pay cash dollars for which are functionally identical to what's already in the game, except it has a kill counter!

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    here's a decent argument for a tf3...

    http://youtu.be/mT6iyZ16wkk

    This is actually fake. If you look in his console, there's stuff in there that shows he is using a charge turn script. ("Advanced Joystick Settings Initialized") I assume that this is supposed to be some kind of a prank, hoping this doesn't backfire too hard on him or Valve.

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    Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Time Trash Cat Registered User regular
    Most extreme charge turning examples are people using controllers. Something about the way the game takes controller input allows you to turn with the charge much sharper than possible with a mouse.

    There's a female professional player known for doing insane dumb charge stunts out there whose name I can't remember

    VRXwDW7.png
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    UEAKCrashUEAKCrash heh Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    I refuse to believe that Valve isn't making money of TF2, considering the absolutely ludicrous amount of money they have been paying out to community content creators. Nerds making 6 figure a year off their weapons and hats. And that's only a fraction of what Valve is taking in from them.

    Edit: Source

    UEAKCrash on
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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    people who demoknight with turn scripts and whatnot can turn themselves right the fuck off a cliff

    hate playing against them

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    UEAKCrashUEAKCrash heh Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Quasi-cryptic update to my paid gig I have only talked about a little bit:

    4C53CD01768BED9823977F589C80A03486EEE42E
    THIS SHIT WAS COMPLICATED AND A PAIN IN THE ASS

    UEAKCrash on
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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    Nice texturing, nerd.

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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    Also, come on, someone's gotta have an opinion. :rotate:

    Two new routes I'm considering for access to CP2:

    F3198BD3697E7B2D87F81E2C12A6EAAD2F5E3B30

    Yellow already exists but may be deleted if I pick one of the other routes because it doesn't seem to do much to improve access. Purple would be a low cliff route that comes up on the other side of the point. It would be fairly well covered like that cliff route near the CP2 on Upward. Cyan would cut in through the building and give access to the room right behind the point.

    I can't decide which idea would work the best, what do you nerds think?

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    UEAKCrashUEAKCrash heh Registered User regular
    Spawn room. Shit don't need to look fancy.

    What if you made an upper route above the cyan line with a drop down just before the point around the corner? It'd give defenders a higher route option and jumpers could get up there for another route towards final, maybe?

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    turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    I think dropping yellow and adding in purple and cyan would be the way to go.

    X22wmuF.jpg
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    Pablo the PenguinPablo the Penguin Registered User regular
    Crippl3 wrote: »
    Kana wrote: »
    here's a decent argument for a tf3...

    http://youtu.be/mT6iyZ16wkk

    This is actually fake. If you look in his console, there's stuff in there that shows he is using a charge turn script. ("Advanced Joystick Settings Initialized") I assume that this is supposed to be some kind of a prank, hoping this doesn't backfire too hard on him or Valve.

    Why on earth would he bother with a prank like this? It has no punchline and it's just confusing most people who watch it and tricking them into having a higher frame rate.

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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    UEAKCrash wrote: »
    Spawn room.

    Not gonna happen. :rotate:

    One of my main goals for the map was single spawn rooms and short runs. The short runs are slowly disappearing, the map has grown enough that from round start scouts get to the center point at 9:33 (so once you subtract the 5 second freeze it's about a 22 second run). But the single spawn room is still there and I think it's working okay.
    turtleant wrote: »
    I think dropping yellow and adding in purple and cyan would be the way to go.

    Yeah, I think I like that. That provides three distinct routes for both teams to fight over. Now to decide if cyan "stays high" with a drop like Crash suggested.

    That also generates some new options with the cave that yellow is currently using, some of which might be fun.

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    Now, I've not played that map in quite a while, so I don't know if this has been changed in any way, but I remember that snipers sitting on last had ridiculous sightlines at people coming around the corner from 2nd, and there was one match where two good snipers were essentially fending off the entire attacking team. The cyan route certainly seems like it'd help the attacking team get a lot closer to the chokepoint without having to run headlong into a sightline, so I'd be all for that.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    I brought down the roof of that archway quite a bit for the upcoming release, there is a tiny sliver of a crack you can shoot through that I haven't yet decided to keep or not. Once the displacements are in I'll use that to fine tune the visibility as well, sometimes just a few pixels of height difference is enough.

    It's tough finding that sweet spot where snipers can be effective without dominating the map. My plan was to have sniper fights between snipers standing on the balcony against snipers on that little structure on the cliff and I'd like to find a way to keep that but it hasn't yet worked out that way.

    Worst case, that archway will become more of a wall with a walking route along the cliff, which would completely change the feel of that chokepoint but would certainly fix the sightline issues.

    There's also a potential problem developing around CP2, as the run distances have grown that path along the train tracks has started to turn into a no man's land. I'm thinking about adding a random building in there somewhere to improve the cover.

    Basically, fuck snipers.

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    UEAKCrashUEAKCrash heh Registered User regular
    I was just replying about my spawn room textures you were picking on. :p

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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    Oh, duh.

    What is the map for? Some kind of hat demo screenshot generator or something?

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    UEAKCrashUEAKCrash heh Registered User regular
    Pretty much. Modding website that wanted original well detailed backdrops and a map custom to their needs.

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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    Crippl3 wrote: »
    Kana wrote: »
    here's a decent argument for a tf3...

    http://youtu.be/mT6iyZ16wkk

    This is actually fake. If you look in his console, there's stuff in there that shows he is using a charge turn script. ("Advanced Joystick Settings Initialized") I assume that this is supposed to be some kind of a prank, hoping this doesn't backfire too hard on him or Valve.

    Why on earth would he bother with a prank like this? It has no punchline and it's just confusing most people who watch it and tricking them into having a higher frame rate.

    I think it's an early april fools

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    UEAKCrash wrote: »
    original well detailed backdrops

    Then why the heck did they ring you up?

    Seems like a heap of entity work, I'd take one look at a project like that and run away because fuck entities.

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    UEAKCrashUEAKCrash heh Registered User regular
    Suck iiiit.

    It's actually not too bad. Just a lot of tedious data entry to teleport all the named bots in place and turning off and on a shit load of spectator cameras.

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    Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    Turns out STAR_'s video wasn't fake after all. Apparently he can't figure out how to disable the controller stuff in his console after doing a video with a controller 2 years ago. He did a live demo during his stream last night to show people he wasn't lying.
    http://www.twitch.tv/ster/c/3909194

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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    Deleting his cfg folder and running tf2 with -autoconfig should purge all that stuff.

    That'll reset everything to whatever Valve thinks is a safe default.

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    UEAKCrashUEAKCrash heh Registered User regular
    I made a video changelog for Glassworks:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhsTqFly73M

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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    well the question I have with star's demoknight video is less about whether he's lying (it does not seem he was) but more about whether the fact that the controller stuff actually matters

    because the fact remains that all he did was increase FPS and was able to turn faster

    this is still ridiculous

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    Mr. ButtonsMr. Buttons Registered User regular
    One of the many reasons why I have high hopes for the source2 engine and a possible upgrade/overhaul for TF2

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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    well the question I have with star's demoknight video is less about whether he's lying (it does not seem he was) but more about whether the fact that the controller stuff actually matters

    No, it doesn't matter because and it's super easy to reproduce. I tried it earlier tonight, same basic test he did. I've never, ever plugged a controller into TF2 and I don't get the messages he does in the console.

    a) Start tf2
    b) Bring up console, type "fps_max 30"
    c) Bind a key to right, eg "bind x +right" or whatever you fancy.
    d) Run "map pl_upward" and pick demo on red team. Right click and press x at the same time.
    e) Disconnect, type "fps_max 0" into console.
    f) Reload upward, retry test.

    On my particular computer I was getting 500 fps and could do a full 180. At 30 fps I ran into the arrow sign just like star did.

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    UEAKCrashUEAKCrash heh Registered User regular
    Yeah I wasn't understanding why people were calling BS when it was such an easy thing to try for yourselves...

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    UEAKCrash wrote: »
    Yeah I wasn't understanding why people were calling BS when it was such an easy thing to try for yourselves...

    Because if you call bollocks blindly and happened to be right, you're suddenly really internet cool.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    Added a first version of the cliff route:

    547C2536550CF2261E4A01BB607BD6DAC1370850

    The building is necessary to prevent an absurd sniper line of sight. But it also creates another problem. I might fix it by making the building more of a tower so you can't stand on it:

    0BD937D3A6E3341B3AC93CF7AB794D4F2A143211


    Line of sight from spawn is super restricted now.. this is the only sniping angle that I think exists.

    6B093B0249A70B041EC6185AC587907F6A6EC12C

    The other route enters in here, opens up when your team is down to its last control point. I don't really like this and might delete it in favor of the "high road" that Crash suggested.

    0CAD7F443697BA2DC278AF7894B86BED578FA393

    This is where that door goes:

    447D81258F077BADA59982C6BA029F94785B3EDC

    And last, the new supersized center control point. I still worry it's too cramped but I think it's fun to fight in so hopefully it works out. You can also see the random structure I threw in on the left edge, just to compress things down a bit. I did put a nobuild up there but left it otherwise unclipped.

    C0076B54B45EDBF0A56D7287322392415DDF32FC

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    turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    Heh, got done playing wow with my brother, look at my steam friends list and 6 people are in TF2. Thought I missed a surprise HONC night, but nope, everybody just decided to pub at the same time.

    X22wmuF.jpg
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    EidolonOrpheusEidolonOrpheus NoatunRegistered User regular
    edited March 2014
    I pubbed, then Walrus pubbed, then Smash pubbed, then Duke pubbed, and now it is a pub brawl.

    All brawlers welcome

    EidolonOrpheus on
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    Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Time Trash Cat Registered User regular
    It was some cool refreshing pubb, nice game nerds

    VRXwDW7.png
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    SirToastySirToasty Registered User regular
    I pubbed with none of you. It was 3 back to back competitive 5cp maps that all ended in stalemates followed by a decent round of Upward. I've never hated 5cp more than that in awhile.

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