New ranked strat: Pick all early game champs. If you aren't winning at 10min, one person leaves, and stall to 25min. Players rotate so they don't personally leave too often, take a break if they get close. If punishment for leaves is too harsh, negatively affects too many players, lots of people bitch.
1) Nobody in solo queue would be the fall guy.
2) Who are the 'early game champs'? And how is this different from now, with certain ideal picks always being selected or banned?
With Love and Courage
0
KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
Yeah, the systems of elaborate exploitation tend to require multiple coordinated people. And it's something that already happens. If Athene weren't so high profile I doubt he would have even gotten caught at it.
Rioters were surveying people at PAX
I made sure to represent the thread cut into f4ll0ut's survey and hammered home the importance of Dominion
3 more days to go
You guys are right, I apologize. Riot has no idea what they're doing, people on the internet are better at their jobs than they are. They're just so blind!
You guys are right, I apologize. Riot has no idea what they're doing, people on the internet are better at their jobs than they are. They're just so blind!
Well, your reasoning is circular ("Riot has designed a perfect system because Riot is the best at their jobs because Riot has designed a perfect system,") and you're wrong about it just being people on the Internet - professionally paid experts and streamers like GuardsmanBob have said exactly the same thing. Similar games in this genre have more or less exactly the same proposed system, and they haven't broken down into people exploiting it as you suggest. DotA 2 did have this system through beta; I'm not sure if it's still active or not.
But whatever. Unless it changes, I'm boycotting the store, and that's how it is.
2.5 hours until the OGN finals, with KT bullets vs SKTT1, a storied korean matchup teamwise. This is one of the classic brood war matchups, so hype is slightly larger than usual.
Otherwise, just tune in to twitch.tv/ongamenet 2.5 hours after this post and enjoy the spectacle of a korean finals. It is likely to include kpop and other oddities.
People On The Internet designed DotA and the entire MOBA genre from the ground up.
Riot has done little more than add a handful of interface goodies and a lot of marketing work.
Their design work overall has been trash. Every champion, every map they release needs years of work.
Bottom line? Yeah, Riot has no idea what they are doing. Nobody does.
You guys are right, I apologize. Riot has no idea what they're doing, people on the internet are better at their jobs than they are. They're just so blind!
Well, your reasoning is circular ("Riot has designed a perfect system because Riot is the best at their jobs because Riot has designed a perfect system,") and you're wrong about it just being people on the Internet - professionally paid experts and streamers like GuardsmanBob have said exactly the same thing. Similar games in this genre have more or less exactly the same proposed system, and they haven't broken down into people exploiting it as you suggest. DotA 2 did have this system through beta; I'm not sure if it's still active or not.
But whatever. Unless it changes, I'm boycotting the store, and that's how it is.
Never said it was perfect, and I don't think it is. I'm just saying, if there was clearly a better option, I'm pretty sure people who do it for a job would have thought about it. It's easy to see them as an institution, and easy again to assume an institution is idiotic, but really... If its so obviously better, why don't they do it?
Dota 2 has anti-leaving systems, but I've had way more leavers there than in LoL.
Though that may be caused directly by their lack of surrender system, which means onesided games can drag out for 45 minutes easily.
Probably, also low priority queue is less harsh than a ban, and the game is now safe to leave makes everyone leave if someone disconnects, even if they might have come back.
People On The Internet designed DotA and the entire MOBA genre from the ground up.
Riot has done little more than add a handful of interface goodies and a lot of marketing work.
Their design work overall has been trash. Every champion, every map they release needs years of work.
Bottom line? Yeah, Riot has no idea what they are doing. Nobody does.
On the other hand Riot also saw a huge increase in ranked participation. Their biggest problem seems to be people who stop caring as soon as they hit a plateau as well as the general problems with people placing so much importance on promotion matches. I also, would rather just see my ELO.
I think what they should do for season 4 is to keep the promotion system for rewards/borders/etc but display MMR again. I like the fact that you can't fall out of a league. I dislike the fact the disconnect between ranking and MMR.
Never said it was perfect, and I don't think it is. I'm just saying, if there was clearly a better option, I'm pretty sure people who do it for a job would have thought about it. It's easy to see them as an institution, and easy again to assume an institution is idiotic, but really... If its so obviously better, why don't they do it?
Because they made a bad decision. Saying, "They make good decisions, therefore this is a good decision," is, again, a fallacious argument.
People On The Internet designed DotA and the entire MOBA genre from the ground up.
Riot has done little more than add a handful of interface goodies and a lot of marketing work.
Their design work overall has been trash. Every champion, every map they release needs years of work.
Bottom line? Yeah, Riot has no idea what they are doing. Nobody does.
Well that's just not very nice.
Truth is beauty.
I like their game. I enjoy it. I like a lot of their creative work too! They make some cool skins. They are an absolute font where the North American esports scene is concerned. That doesn't change facts. The people they have working on champ design and game balance have fucked up everything they have ever touched. And you know what? They have, over time, made a much better game than they started with. They learn and improve from at least some of their mistakes and that is about the highest compliment I can pay.
2.5 hours until the OGN finals, with KT bullets vs SKTT1, a storied korean matchup teamwise. This is one of the classic brood war matchups, so hype is slightly larger than usual.
Otherwise, just tune in to twitch.tv/ongamenet 2.5 hours after this post and enjoy the spectacle of a korean finals. It is likely to include kpop and other oddities.
Where is this being broadcast?
www.twitch.tv/ongamenet, starting in 80 minutes or so. Games starting 10-40 min after than depending on how much ceremony they have.
People On The Internet designed DotA and the entire MOBA genre from the ground up.
Riot has done little more than add a handful of interface goodies and a lot of marketing work.
Their design work overall has been trash. Every champion, every map they release needs years of work.
Bottom line? Yeah, Riot has no idea what they are doing. Nobody does.
Well that's just not very nice.
The people they have working on champ design and game balance have fucked up everything they have ever touched.
I know this is the internet and all, but come on. That's going just a bit far, don't you think?
Regardless. My point is that it is really easy to armchair design lol. I'm not saying they're perfect, but they have people who come in eight hours a day to pour over metrics. People who do this stuff as a career, and actually enjoy their jobs. They're also one of the most popular games in the world.
So yeah, I tend to assume they know what they are doing until I see incontrovertible proof otherwise. They have some smart as hell people working there, at least from the members I've talked to.
Loss forgiven if you have DC'd player for more than 15 minutes. Done. That solution is not absolutely perfect, just like no solution is absolutely perfect, but it's a Hell of a lot better than 'lol deal with it' which is all that's currently in place. Many, many people - including competitive players - have already suggested this to Riot, and they've refused to implement it because, "It can be abused,"
Regardless. My point is that it is really easy to armchair design lol. I'm not saying they're perfect, but they have people who come in eight hours a day to pour over metrics. People who do this stuff as a career, and actually enjoy their jobs. They're also one of the most popular games in the world.
None of this is a valid argument. A valid argument would go along the lines of, "But they did a comparison between these two models, and here is the result of that test [source]. See?"
Appealing to someone's smarts, or their popularity, or their profession, is fallacious. Smart people, and professional people, and popular people, can still be quite wrong.
The interesting thing is that this isn't a debate.
Riot Games really employs these people and really makes a lot of money by taking advantage of their work. Their professionalism, their talent, their merits are not at issue.
The results are binary.
Do I give them money? Yes/no.
Loss forgiven if you have DC'd player for more than 15 minutes. Done. That solution is not absolutely perfect, just like no solution is absolutely perfect, but it's a Hell of a lot better than 'lol deal with it' which is all that's currently in place. Many, many people - including competitive players - have already suggested this to Riot, and they've refused to implement it because, "It can be abused,"
DCs and leavers will eventually turn in your favour though. This is a statistical fact, if you are not a leaver. How on earth does implementing an abusable system remedy something that as far as elo/mmr is concerned, is white noise? Yes, it sucks to play in those games, but your proposed solution does nothing to fix the elo/mmr system.
I always figured that the best way to introduce some kind of loss forgiven thing for a disconnect would be to have the enemy team vote on it or something as they're the least likely to be biased. Can they be swayed? Yes, obviously. But they're less likely to-they have nothing to gain.
They'd also be able to tell if someone actually disconnected or just seemed like they were doing really shitty and his team forced him to leave for a disconnect.
Far from perfect but it's better than just someone left let's pretend the loss didn't happen.
So enough with the bickering. I will tell you a lol mechanic story you might not know.
Today I got a double kill as sona. Now this in and of itself is not extraordinary i do this all the time. However our cait did not think that what I did should have happened. As it were I did not explain it to her but I will explain it to you, I just told her the AA was away. You see I auto attacked ezreal after he flashed out of my range.
I know what you're thinking "Bollocks". But it's true. A little known fact of the auto attack code is that it only checks for range as you start the animation. Not when the projectile is released. The only thing it checks for is if you can still see the target.
The reason for this is simple; if it were not the case then kiting someone running from you would be impossible since they would run out of your AA range. (Especially melee champions). Which is to say that if the animation starts the animation finishes. (Not sure if this works for stuns though a blind iirc will prevent damage if a projectile is in the air as damage is determined by your stats at the time of impact not creation)
So what happened was that my AA started, ezreal flashed, a projectile was created, it killed him.
The point of the story is not to be all "I am awesome" (you all know that already) but to illustrate how important it is to click precisely and intentionally. Had I reissued an attack-move command it would have registered my command as different from the one it was executing and rechecked the range. Ditto if I was clicking frantically. Either one would have denied me a kill. The only way to get the kill was to recognize the attack animation started and not issue any command that might interrupt it.
People On The Internet designed DotA and the entire MOBA genre from the ground up.
Riot has done little more than add a handful of interface goodies and a lot of marketing work.
Their design work overall has been trash. Every champion, every map they release needs years of work.
Bottom line? Yeah, Riot has no idea what they are doing. Nobody does.
to be fair, most of those people on the internet that made dota, are working for riot.
DCs and leavers will eventually turn in your favour though. This is a statistical fact
Prove that it is a statistical fact.
EDIT: Note that this isn't even relevant. It's a quality of life issue and basic piece of functionality for a game meant for symmetrical teams. I'm just tired of throw-away statements being made. Show your math. Because you're an expert in statistics, right? How many games, roughly, does it take for this 'statistical fact' to balance out?
DCs and leavers will eventually turn in your favour though. This is a statistical fact
Prove that it is a statistical fact.
EDIT: Note that this isn't even relevant. It's a quality of life issue and basic piece of functionality for a game meant for symmetrical teams. I'm just tired of throw-away statements being made. Show your math. Because you're an expert in statistics, right? How many games, roughly, does it take for this 'statistical fact' to balance out?
Basic math?
There are 10 people in your game, 5 on your team, 5 on the enemy team. If we remove you as a potential leaver, that means we are comparing 4 people on your team to 5 on theirs.
Let's say there is a dc/leave in 10% of your games, and that you always solo queue. That is 40 random strangers on your teams, and 50 on the other teams. 1 of those 90 will DC/leave, so the math is like this.
40/90=44.44% chance it's on your team
50/90=55.56% chance it's on the enemy team.
I'm pretty sure my understanding of the statistics is right. If it's wrong, please correct me (anyone).
Edit: It's relevant because giving you a loss forgiven does nothing to improve the suckiness of having to play a 4v5. And if I need to be an expert on statistics to argue your point, you need to be an expert on elo mechanics to try and suggest any improvements. Gah you're a goose, and I should never have tried to discuss anything with you.
People On The Internet designed DotA and the entire MOBA genre from the ground up.
Riot has done little more than add a handful of interface goodies and a lot of marketing work.
Their design work overall has been trash. Every champion, every map they release needs years of work.
Bottom line? Yeah, Riot has no idea what they are doing. Nobody does.
to be fair, most of those people on the internet that made dota, are working for riot.
Not really. Riot snagged one or two of the tertiary dudes. Pendragon, I think? Nobody else that I can recall.
HoN, DotA 2, and a couple of other contemporary MOBA efforts have involved more of the original crew.
but then again, HoN and DotA 2 aren't games I want to play. Certainly wouldn't ever spend a dime on 'em.
It's strange, but the very best and most innovative design work seems usually to be the result of community effort. That goes for any IP. Look at Valve - their most successful products are community developed mods. Counterstrike, Team Fortress, DotA 2.
Posts
1) Nobody in solo queue would be the fall guy.
2) Who are the 'early game champs'? And how is this different from now, with certain ideal picks always being selected or banned?
I made sure to represent the thread cut into f4ll0ut's survey and hammered home the importance of Dominion
3 more days to go
sry @Custom Special
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
Well, your reasoning is circular ("Riot has designed a perfect system because Riot is the best at their jobs because Riot has designed a perfect system,") and you're wrong about it just being people on the Internet - professionally paid experts and streamers like GuardsmanBob have said exactly the same thing. Similar games in this genre have more or less exactly the same proposed system, and they haven't broken down into people exploiting it as you suggest. DotA 2 did have this system through beta; I'm not sure if it's still active or not.
But whatever. Unless it changes, I'm boycotting the store, and that's how it is.
Though that may be caused directly by their lack of surrender system, which means onesided games can drag out for 45 minutes easily.
Where is this being broadcast?
Riot has done little more than add a handful of interface goodies and a lot of marketing work.
Their design work overall has been trash. Every champion, every map they release needs years of work.
Bottom line? Yeah, Riot has no idea what they are doing. Nobody does.
Like i said, I don't care about having leavers per se. Leavers happen.
I just want a loss to be forgiven if the teams were imbalanced. This isn't too much to ask for.
Though it is painful for this to happen in promotion matches
Never said it was perfect, and I don't think it is. I'm just saying, if there was clearly a better option, I'm pretty sure people who do it for a job would have thought about it. It's easy to see them as an institution, and easy again to assume an institution is idiotic, but really... If its so obviously better, why don't they do it?
3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
I think what they should do for season 4 is to keep the promotion system for rewards/borders/etc but display MMR again. I like the fact that you can't fall out of a league. I dislike the fact the disconnect between ranking and MMR.
Because they made a bad decision. Saying, "They make good decisions, therefore this is a good decision," is, again, a fallacious argument.
What is the better option?
Truth is beauty.
I like their game. I enjoy it. I like a lot of their creative work too! They make some cool skins. They are an absolute font where the North American esports scene is concerned. That doesn't change facts. The people they have working on champ design and game balance have fucked up everything they have ever touched. And you know what? They have, over time, made a much better game than they started with. They learn and improve from at least some of their mistakes and that is about the highest compliment I can pay.
www.twitch.tv/ongamenet, starting in 80 minutes or so. Games starting 10-40 min after than depending on how much ceremony they have.
I know this is the internet and all, but come on. That's going just a bit far, don't you think?
3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
So yeah, I tend to assume they know what they are doing until I see incontrovertible proof otherwise. They have some smart as hell people working there, at least from the members I've talked to.
3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
None of this is a valid argument. A valid argument would go along the lines of, "But they did a comparison between these two models, and here is the result of that test [source]. See?"
Appealing to someone's smarts, or their popularity, or their profession, is fallacious. Smart people, and professional people, and popular people, can still be quite wrong.
Riot Games really employs these people and really makes a lot of money by taking advantage of their work. Their professionalism, their talent, their merits are not at issue.
The results are binary.
Do I give them money? Yes/no.
The answer is yes.
DCs and leavers will eventually turn in your favour though. This is a statistical fact, if you are not a leaver. How on earth does implementing an abusable system remedy something that as far as elo/mmr is concerned, is white noise? Yes, it sucks to play in those games, but your proposed solution does nothing to fix the elo/mmr system.
They'd also be able to tell if someone actually disconnected or just seemed like they were doing really shitty and his team forced him to leave for a disconnect.
Far from perfect but it's better than just someone left let's pretend the loss didn't happen.
Today I got a double kill as sona. Now this in and of itself is not extraordinary i do this all the time. However our cait did not think that what I did should have happened. As it were I did not explain it to her but I will explain it to you, I just told her the AA was away. You see I auto attacked ezreal after he flashed out of my range.
I know what you're thinking "Bollocks". But it's true. A little known fact of the auto attack code is that it only checks for range as you start the animation. Not when the projectile is released. The only thing it checks for is if you can still see the target.
The reason for this is simple; if it were not the case then kiting someone running from you would be impossible since they would run out of your AA range. (Especially melee champions). Which is to say that if the animation starts the animation finishes. (Not sure if this works for stuns though a blind iirc will prevent damage if a projectile is in the air as damage is determined by your stats at the time of impact not creation)
So what happened was that my AA started, ezreal flashed, a projectile was created, it killed him.
The point of the story is not to be all "I am awesome" (you all know that already) but to illustrate how important it is to click precisely and intentionally. Had I reissued an attack-move command it would have registered my command as different from the one it was executing and rechecked the range. Ditto if I was clicking frantically. Either one would have denied me a kill. The only way to get the kill was to recognize the attack animation started and not issue any command that might interrupt it.
to be fair, most of those people on the internet that made dota, are working for riot.
Joe's Stream.
Prove that it is a statistical fact.
EDIT: Note that this isn't even relevant. It's a quality of life issue and basic piece of functionality for a game meant for symmetrical teams. I'm just tired of throw-away statements being made. Show your math. Because you're an expert in statistics, right? How many games, roughly, does it take for this 'statistical fact' to balance out?
if you are not a DC or leaver, 5/5 of the enemy team can be one, while only 4/5 of your team can
Is this why Koreans are better than us?
Basic math?
There are 10 people in your game, 5 on your team, 5 on the enemy team. If we remove you as a potential leaver, that means we are comparing 4 people on your team to 5 on theirs.
Let's say there is a dc/leave in 10% of your games, and that you always solo queue. That is 40 random strangers on your teams, and 50 on the other teams. 1 of those 90 will DC/leave, so the math is like this.
40/90=44.44% chance it's on your team
50/90=55.56% chance it's on the enemy team.
I'm pretty sure my understanding of the statistics is right. If it's wrong, please correct me (anyone).
Edit: It's relevant because giving you a loss forgiven does nothing to improve the suckiness of having to play a 4v5. And if I need to be an expert on statistics to argue your point, you need to be an expert on elo mechanics to try and suggest any improvements. Gah you're a goose, and I should never have tried to discuss anything with you.
Not really. Riot snagged one or two of the tertiary dudes. Pendragon, I think? Nobody else that I can recall.
HoN, DotA 2, and a couple of other contemporary MOBA efforts have involved more of the original crew.
but then again, HoN and DotA 2 aren't games I want to play. Certainly wouldn't ever spend a dime on 'em.
It's strange, but the very best and most innovative design work seems usually to be the result of community effort. That goes for any IP. Look at Valve - their most successful products are community developed mods. Counterstrike, Team Fortress, DotA 2.
...So the two biggest telecommunications company in South Korea are backing the different teams? And this is serious biz over there?
That's the fucking 1988 Olympics stadium behind them, right?
What in the Hells.
Ohhh yeah. The scythe of vyse. Forgot about him.
How much has he even been involved with LoL, anyway?