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school me on used car buying
Elin
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So, I need a new car. I'm already at a disadvantage it seems as I have breasts and the salesmen seem like they would rather speak to my husband's beard. Simple questions of "What does this car cost" are met with "what do you want to pay." I know better than to answer that question, even when it's asked 10 fucking times. Tell me little tips and tricks to make the fuckers actually answer my questions. The salesman today refused to shake my hand because I refused his offer (which was 3k higher than I told him I would pay) and then he told my husband to come back. Nooooope.
Help me Obi-wan Kanobi, you're my only hope.
Help me Obi-wan Kanobi, you're my only hope.
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You'll pay more but these people have a little more reputation to maintain. A lot of straight up used car lots have a really ugly business model that is outside the scope of this thread
But even dealer lots can be annoying, as not all of them play by the same rules
My first rule of thumb is I won't shop anywhere that doesn't put a price on the sticker. I don't care if it's negotiable or not. No price, no sale, because anywhere that doesn't print prices is just looking to make as much over auction price as possible, and those are the guys who are looking to screw you
If you have a CarMax near you, I would at least check it out. They charge more but I have heard people say it's legit, and I bought my mom a car from there a couple of years ago and it never had any major issues
That shit infuriates me, if they asked me that I'd say "fuck you is what I want to pay" and ask them again how much the car costs. They are fucking with you on the get go so don't feel bad pushing back.
Also, don't take your husband. Generally I've found women to be the better negotiators in this kind of situation.
If you can find the car you want online, try to negotiate the price with the web sales manager online.
Do you have a trade-in? f so consider selling that outright on CL or something as it makes the transaction easier with the dealer if they don't have to buy a car contingent to the sale of a car.
Now, I don't know what the procedure is on used cars, but on the new car side, you basically put in what kind of car you want, with what options, and the site will spit out a bell curve of prices and show you what you should be paying as opposed to what the manufacturer would like you to pay. Then, you choose the dealerships you want to court you, and they can only contact you on your terms (seriously, you're pretty much given cart blanche to tell them to "Fuck off" if they don't have what you want). The price is set before you step foot on the lot, and you hand them a certificate with that price you've printed out from TrueCar. No haggling, just "here's my paper, give me my car."
Some dealerships are fine for onsite. For instance, when I bought my new car last year, the dealer actually hooked me up with a local Credit Union for the loan and got me interest at 2.6% (which was 1% less than the local banks were willing to give me). If the Dealer wants to do the financing themselves you'll be in trouble, but a good one will reach out to the local financial institutions on your behalf.
As for dealing with the dealers, I've always found that the best thing to do is go in knowing what you want, knowing what you're willing to pay for it, and not taking shit. If someone does give you a hard time and is evasive in their dealings, demand to see the manager, and then tell the Manager what's been going on and that the saleman just cost him a sale. A good manager will deal with the issue and see you treated right. A bad manager, well, you don't want to buy from anyway so just walk out.
This, a million times this. Unless of course you can get 0% through the dealer.
I've found that if you have financing secured at an outside source, then the only discussion is the actual price of the vehicle.
Do you have a trade-in?
The best advice is to remove things for them to negotiate about. Devoutly Apathetic talks about having financing in hand before walking in the door. Absolutely do that. That way you don't have to talk about down payment or payment terms. Also know what car you want before you ever enter the lot. Then the only thing you have to negotiate on is the value of a trade in and the value of the new car.
I like to tell the salesperson. I want to know the difference in the cost of the newcar and what you will pay me for the used car. 1 number. Then I work from there. Ignore anything but that. Watch out for women used car "salesmen." They are super ruthless, because it is a sexist field and they are generally good enough that they impressed the massogonistic manager enough to be working there.
Now not all car buying is like that, I once test drove, purchased a car and was out the door in 30 minutes. They offered me invoice price and I had checked the internets on several sites the night before with print ups of several options and they were slightly under edmunds and consumer reports. So it was easy. Generally you can get what the dealer paid. The manufacturers keep a 3-5 percent hold back. That money comes back to the dealership after the car is sold as profit. I think 3-5 percent is a good margin of profit.
Edmunds.com is your friend, read the guides they are very useful. http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/
If they're pulling any shady stuff, just leave. They're not worth doing business with.
Know what they are advertising for their prices, know what the blue book values are, know approximately how much the dealer cost of the vehicle is, and know what similar make/models are going for from competitors. If you can pull all of that up on your phone, even better. They will usually try and find some excuse why another vehicle "isn't worth" theirs. Its usually bullshit.
Remember that they will bend over backward to get a sale, but once they have it they will probably forget about you.
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http://consumerist.com/2007/03/30/dealerships-rip-you-off-with-the-four-square-heres-how-to-beat-it/
this one ahs a training video for the sales man.
http://www.realcartips.com/cardealers/211-4-square-method.shtml
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1. Use Edmunds.com and Consumer Reports (which you may have to pay for) to get more information about what you want and what it costs in the area.
2. Solicit the "Internet Sales" department of area dealerships for the car you want. I usually set up a Google Voice account for this to catch all of the HUNDREDS OF PHONE CALLS you are going to get from both the dealers and people they sold your number to. It's quite impressive how many phone calls you're going to get out of this.
2a. When you negotiate make sure you use what you got from the 'Internet Sales' teams from other dealerships as leverage.
3. Be ready to walk away - which you are already doing!
4. Be clear about what you will pay for and what you will not, especially with add-ons. I've had sales people try to sell me a six CD changer when the car had an auxillary jack. After explaining I was not paying for an additional CD changer I was told they didn't have any available without I thanked the salesman for his time and stood up to leave, he removed that price from the car before I got out of the door.
My experiences have ranged from shitty to great, but I've always gotten a good deal (when compared to area dealerships and information from Consumer Reports and Edmunds) because I stick with my research. I also used other financing to remove a negotiation term from the sales person - but people already talkd about that.
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If you're looking for, say, any 4-door sedan with a V-6 engine and an automatic transmission, and you have even the slightest inkling that he's full of shit, just leave right then and there, because you can easily find more anywhere.
I think part of the problem is that people don't realize that they have 100% of the power in the negotiation.
I got a free sun roof, free CD changer (mentioned above), free monogrammed floor mats (seriously, who would actually pay for those?), and paid just a few hundred over what Consumer Reports had for the car.
The only time that making the first offer is a bad idea is when you know nothing about the car you're buying. But if you do your research, you should have a pretty good idea of what the retail value of the car is.
The whole "four-square" technique takes advantage of a psychological phenomenon called anchoring. It's been repeatedly demonstrated in academic experiments that when people first hear a number in a negotiation, it influences what they think is "reasonable" and "unreasonable." As long as the first number floated isn't completely absurd, it can really influence how the final deal pans out.
For example, let's say the fair market price of something is $1000. If I'm a seller and I open with an offer of $1050, we'll probably settle on a number somewhere around $1020. But if I open at $1100 -- a number you as a buyer think is JUST short of ridiculous -- we might end up haggling to a final number of $1040.
The good news is that you can use anchoring to your advantage as a buyer. Simply do the opposite: before the dealer can bamboozle you, just point out a car that you've researched and offer him 85%-ish of what you think is the fair market price. He may tell you that he could never sell the car to you at the price, but if he doesn't show you the door, you've given yourself s real advantage. NEVER tell a salesman the "maximum" price you'd be willing to pay for something -- he'll just think you're anchoring at that number and try to haggle you up from there.
What if the dealer makes the first offer and you know he's trying to anchor you hard? De-anchor by offering him an equally hard number from the opposite direction. (Expect him to try to do this to you if you anchor him first.)
Another thing to watch out for is the whole principal-agent thing. Everyone knows that you're never really negotiating with the used car salesman -- you're negotiating with his manager. Double teaming you is another way used car salesmen eke out value from you.
One way to get around this is to demand to talk with the manager directly and cut out the middle man. This can be kind of a Hail Mary at some dealerships, as te salesman REALLY doesn't want to lose his commission. But if you're persistent enough you can sometimes make it happen.
A lot of times you can get a rebate or better discount, that they don't normally advertise, if you don't take their 0% offer. Then when you do the math, you find the low interest rate loan offered by your local CU ends up being less over the life than the 0% loan through the dealer.
Seriously though, just walk away if the deal looks bad, and not the "I'm going to threaten to walk away so you reconsider", but a flat out "thank you for your time" It's a numbers game to used car salesmen so they'll have 20 other people to see before the day is over and you can both go on about your business.
Make sure any firm quotes you get are "out the door prices" which include tax, title, freight, or anything else they might try to slip by you later as "standard fees"
Usually that kind of stuff is on the sticker but there's still a lot of shady geese out there.
I started selling my used vehicle myself and keeping it out of the new car deal.
And make sure the place you choose has no ties to the vehicles current owner.
Waiting for the money for the down payment to get to me, not going to do any serious looking until I get it in hand. Been looking online though and seeing solid cars in my price range so here's hoping.
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While that isn't a particularly new car it has a pretty low amount of miles on it. Unless the entire engine and transmission went kaput it would probably be worth repairing to keep it on the road a little longer.
If we hadn't put around 3k + into it in the last few years I would have agreed with you. Just one thing after another - water pump broke, cracked manifold, some other stuff I don't remember. The brakes need replaced soon, needs fluids. Just more money we don't want to dump into it, we'd rather put the 2k or whatever into a newer car.
Plus, smaller consideration, my husband and I are getting into going into the mountains - hiking, kayaking, being Colorado residents - so we're looking at getting a AWD vehicle, a wagon or a small SUV to fit the dogs and camping crap and not falling off the mountain.
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If you don't buy from a dealer, take it to a dealer. They will usually find the most ridiculous things to repair.
Seriously, what I do is view the dealer web site, maybe do a nighttime drive by, and then send in an email. They'll email you back it a bunch of crap and ask you to come in. You email back and say you know what a 2004 Escort is, so you don't need to come by if they can't make your price. They'll email you back some nonsensical math, which you'll have to reformat into real numbers and ask them to expressly confirm. Tell them at this point that you're not paying more than $x for that car. They'll counter, and you write back saying "oh well, thanks anyway." Email their boss telling them that the sales dude was a really nice guy, and you're sorry you couldn't make the numbers work. Then do nothing until the better offer shows up. When it does, then you're actually negotiating. Then you make a deal, contingent on inspection of the car. Drive it, get it tested, and then say it smells like cat piss or something, and see if you can get more money off.
God I love buying cars.
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