Believe me, I am hardly going to be righteously demanding that a majority culture cease to enforce its domination on a minority culture.
It's the self-righteous preening that gets to me. The smiling insistence that this is for your own good, don't you know, that the state must most regretfully harass your businesses and your schools and prevent you from setting up any new businesses or schools because that would be colonialism, don't you want to integrate? And that anything resistance is hateful bigotry against them because, don't you know, the British brought your great-grandfathers here and no matter what, no matter whether we give you citizenship and an ID card and let you keep your schools and neighbourhoods and churches for now, you will always, and forever, be guests here in our homeland. We stand equal as citizens - as long you obey us always. And in the thoroughly unfortunate event that you defy us, well, we will come with our knives and expel you from this land forever.
Because this is Malaysia, and it is the homeland of the Malays.
But don't worry, we will definitely be thoroughly reasonable in arbitrating any disputes when we outnumber you nine to one instead of two to one.
I think you're projecting a lot about the Quebec issues.
Possibly. But, conversely, I think you're failing to be objective.
You, at least, are aware that the linguistic nationalism isn't quite as pure in thought as one would prefer - that there is some scrabbling around for excuses to harass people who, inconveniently, do speak French. Therefore: headdress laws. But I was quite stunned when notdroid whipped out "masters in our own home" and then said that it isn't based in xenophobia and racism.
Well, it's not, actually, about xenophobia in that context. have you read his post?
This was said in a time period where the high earners were anglophones and where francophones were not even allowed to get promotion and refused service for speaking french. Not for not speaking english, but for speaking French in the first place.
The French Canadians have been an underclass for a loooong-ass time since the British won the war.
i mean, i don't see what's so abhorrent about forcing public services to serve Francophones when Francophones are the majority in the province. Especially when, historically, being a Francophone was reason enough to refuse service.
aaaand?
I mean, there's a reason I invoked this marvellously analagous situation.
What can i say, i'm dense.
What is abhorrent about forcing public services to serve francophones in french and what's the optimal situation?
There is nothing abhorrent about that, actually. The obvious question is whether the minority Anglophones will served in English, and whether they will continue to be served in English in the future, after decades of demographic engineering with the deliberate end of ensuring Francophone dominance in the political process.
Even failing to do that is not necessarily problematic, conditional on some self-awareness that one is, in fact, trying to remove a minority culture because it's not part of your national identity. It is one thing to harass people into emigration via threats and hostility and a thousand cuts on your businesses and schools; it is quite another to do so while patting yourself on the back for how kind you are whilst doing so.
Sometimes the gains from cultural engineering are enormous, and it may be well worth pursuing forced assimilation just to avoid decades of simmering violence. As I said, I am hardly going to say that this is inherently vile. It's the hypocrisy that I find repellent. At the very least, the awareness that you are doing something that imposes large costs on your ethnic minority should deter you from hand-wringing about the ill-treatment your great-grandfathers got.
i am fairly sure public services in Quebec have to be offered in both French AND English. i know all federal services have to be offered in both.
The threats thing i really don't agree with (I am quite against the charter for forced secularism hiding as the charter of Quebec Values.) As far as i know, there aren't any cuts against businesses owned by ethnic groups. Hell, i'm not advocating against immigrants keeping their culture, i'm merely for immigrants learning French in order to be able to function outside their communities. And i don't think it's by forcing them but rather by giving them incentives to do so that will work.
It is for their own good to learn French, but it's not by forcing them with threats.
hope we can agree on that...
You may like to peruse this page. If you say: I don't see how any of these could impose any costs on minority businesses or minority employees, substitute "English" for "French" throughout and read it again.
It is not possible for an Anglophone to operate an Anglophone business employing fifty Anglophones without submitting to Francization, even if all of them are in western Montreal. The rights of the Francophone who may one day work there are too important.
The geography of Canada means that most of its people stay in the warmer south, and both Quebec City and Montreal have substantial Anglophone communities. Unfortunately, this means that immigrants can function outside their communities by learning English; indeed, if they could, they probably would do so. Immigration to Canada draws extensively from Anglicized societies elsewhere in the world. And because Quebec has sub-replacement fertility, we both know that a flow of immigrants adopting English instead of French would steadily erode the Francophone numerical majority. It is for this reason that your language law prevents immigrants from sending their children to English medium schools.
I doubt we'll see eye-to-eye on this, but i think it's important that businesses be able to serve people in French and i think it's important that Quebec keeps it's language.
The language laws are far from perfect, i know that, but language is kind of a huge part of the culture, and culture is kind of a hugely important thing to, well, most people.
You've said so before.
I do trust that is obvious that if your answer to "but this is an injustice" is "but it's important Quebec keeps its language", then you are acknowledging that Anglophone Quebecers should not have a right to influence what that language is.
Well, look, it's like the francophone communities in Ontario or Manitoba. They get federal services in French, but need to learn English to get most other services because that's the language of the majority.
Similarly, Anglophone communities can exist in Quebec... But they should be bilingual. learning a second language isn't that hard and can be a very handy tool to have.
i'm not sure i get the big injustice, honestly? Is the injustice that immigrants and anglophones can't make insular anglophone-only communities? Is the big injustice that immigrants can't have their children in anglophone schools? is it that anglophones can't refuse service to francophones because they refuse to learn the majority's language?
Believe me, I am hardly going to be righteously demanding that a majority culture cease to enforce its domination on a minority culture.
It's the self-righteous preening that gets to me. The smiling insistence that this is for your own good, don't you know, that the state must most regretfully harass your businesses and your schools and prevent you from setting up any new businesses or schools because that would be colonialism, don't you want to integrate? And that anything resistance is hateful bigotry against them because, don't you know, the British brought your great-grandfathers here and no matter what, no matter whether we give you citizenship and an ID card and let you keep your schools and neighbourhoods and churches for now, you will always, and forever, be guests here in our homeland. We stand equal as citizens - as long you obey us always. And in the thoroughly unfortunate event that you defy us, well, we will come with our knives and expel you from this land forever.
Because this is Malaysia, and it is the homeland of the Malays.
But don't worry, we will definitely be thoroughly reasonable in arbitrating any disputes when we outnumber you nine to one instead of two to one.
I think you're projecting a lot about the Quebec issues.
Possibly. But, conversely, I think you're failing to be objective.
You, at least, are aware that the linguistic nationalism isn't quite as pure in thought as one would prefer - that there is some scrabbling around for excuses to harass people who, inconveniently, do speak French. Therefore: headdress laws. But I was quite stunned when notdroid whipped out "masters in our own home" and then said that it isn't based in xenophobia and racism.
Well, it's not, actually, about xenophobia in that context. have you read his post?
This was said in a time period where the high earners were anglophones and where francophones were not even allowed to get promotion and refused service for speaking french. Not for not speaking english, but for speaking French in the first place.
The French Canadians have been an underclass for a loooong-ass time since the British won the war.
i mean, i don't see what's so abhorrent about forcing public services to serve Francophones when Francophones are the majority in the province. Especially when, historically, being a Francophone was reason enough to refuse service.
aaaand?
I mean, there's a reason I invoked this marvellously analagous situation.
What can i say, i'm dense.
What is abhorrent about forcing public services to serve francophones in french and what's the optimal situation?
There is nothing abhorrent about that, actually. The obvious question is whether the minority Anglophones will served in English, and whether they will continue to be served in English in the future, after decades of demographic engineering with the deliberate end of ensuring Francophone dominance in the political process.
Even failing to do that is not necessarily problematic, conditional on some self-awareness that one is, in fact, trying to remove a minority culture because it's not part of your national identity. It is one thing to harass people into emigration via threats and hostility and a thousand cuts on your businesses and schools; it is quite another to do so while patting yourself on the back for how kind you are whilst doing so.
Sometimes the gains from cultural engineering are enormous, and it may be well worth pursuing forced assimilation just to avoid decades of simmering violence. As I said, I am hardly going to say that this is inherently vile. It's the hypocrisy that I find repellent. At the very least, the awareness that you are doing something that imposes large costs on your ethnic minority should deter you from hand-wringing about the ill-treatment your great-grandfathers got.
i am fairly sure public services in Quebec have to be offered in both French AND English. i know all federal services have to be offered in both.
The threats thing i really don't agree with (I am quite against the charter for forced secularism hiding as the charter of Quebec Values.) As far as i know, there aren't any cuts against businesses owned by ethnic groups. Hell, i'm not advocating against immigrants keeping their culture, i'm merely for immigrants learning French in order to be able to function outside their communities. And i don't think it's by forcing them but rather by giving them incentives to do so that will work.
It is for their own good to learn French, but it's not by forcing them with threats.
hope we can agree on that...
You may like to peruse this page. If you say: I don't see how any of these could impose any costs on minority businesses or minority employees, substitute "English" for "French" throughout and read it again.
It is not possible for an Anglophone to operate an Anglophone business employing fifty Anglophones without submitting to Francization, even if all of them are in western Montreal. The rights of the Francophone who may one day work there are too important.
The geography of Canada means that most of its people stay in the warmer south, and both Quebec City and Montreal have substantial Anglophone communities. Unfortunately, this means that immigrants can function outside their communities by learning English; indeed, if they could, they probably would do so. Immigration to Canada draws extensively from Anglicized societies elsewhere in the world. And because Quebec has sub-replacement fertility, we both know that a flow of immigrants adopting English instead of French would steadily erode the Francophone numerical majority. It is for this reason that your language law prevents immigrants from sending their children to English medium schools.
I doubt we'll see eye-to-eye on this, but i think it's important that businesses be able to serve people in French and i think it's important that Quebec keeps it's language.
The language laws are far from perfect, i know that, but language is kind of a huge part of the culture, and culture is kind of a hugely important thing to, well, most people.
You've said so before.
I do trust that is obvious that if your answer to "but this is an injustice" is "but it's important Quebec keeps its language", then you are acknowledging that Anglophone Quebecers should not have a right to influence what that language is.
Well, look, it's like the francophone communities in Ontario or Manitoba. They get federal services in French, but need to learn English to get most other services because that's the language of the majority.
Similarly, Anglophone communities can exist in Quebec... But they should be bilingual. learning a second language isn't that hard and can be a very handy tool to have.
i'm not sure i get the big injustice, honestly? Is the injustice that immigrants and anglophones can't make insular anglophone-only communities? Is the big injustice that immigrants can't have their children in anglophone schools? is it that anglophones can't refuse service to francophones because they refuse to learn the majority's language?
Honestly, this isn't the thread to debate this...
Indeed, learning a second language isn't that hard. Therefore, all of you should learn English.
As before, my objection is not to a policy of cultural engineering, it is to the pretence that it is liberal.
0
Options
HerrCronIt that wickedly supports taxationRegistered Userregular
Believe me, I am hardly going to be righteously demanding that a majority culture cease to enforce its domination on a minority culture.
It's the self-righteous preening that gets to me. The smiling insistence that this is for your own good, don't you know, that the state must most regretfully harass your businesses and your schools and prevent you from setting up any new businesses or schools because that would be colonialism, don't you want to integrate? And that anything resistance is hateful bigotry against them because, don't you know, the British brought your great-grandfathers here and no matter what, no matter whether we give you citizenship and an ID card and let you keep your schools and neighbourhoods and churches for now, you will always, and forever, be guests here in our homeland. We stand equal as citizens - as long you obey us always. And in the thoroughly unfortunate event that you defy us, well, we will come with our knives and expel you from this land forever.
Because this is Malaysia, and it is the homeland of the Malays.
But don't worry, we will definitely be thoroughly reasonable in arbitrating any disputes when we outnumber you nine to one instead of two to one.
I think you're projecting a lot about the Quebec issues.
Possibly. But, conversely, I think you're failing to be objective.
You, at least, are aware that the linguistic nationalism isn't quite as pure in thought as one would prefer - that there is some scrabbling around for excuses to harass people who, inconveniently, do speak French. Therefore: headdress laws. But I was quite stunned when notdroid whipped out "masters in our own home" and then said that it isn't based in xenophobia and racism.
Well, it's not, actually, about xenophobia in that context. have you read his post?
This was said in a time period where the high earners were anglophones and where francophones were not even allowed to get promotion and refused service for speaking french. Not for not speaking english, but for speaking French in the first place.
The French Canadians have been an underclass for a loooong-ass time since the British won the war.
i mean, i don't see what's so abhorrent about forcing public services to serve Francophones when Francophones are the majority in the province. Especially when, historically, being a Francophone was reason enough to refuse service.
aaaand?
I mean, there's a reason I invoked this marvellously analagous situation.
What can i say, i'm dense.
What is abhorrent about forcing public services to serve francophones in french and what's the optimal situation?
There is nothing abhorrent about that, actually. The obvious question is whether the minority Anglophones will served in English, and whether they will continue to be served in English in the future, after decades of demographic engineering with the deliberate end of ensuring Francophone dominance in the political process.
Even failing to do that is not necessarily problematic, conditional on some self-awareness that one is, in fact, trying to remove a minority culture because it's not part of your national identity. It is one thing to harass people into emigration via threats and hostility and a thousand cuts on your businesses and schools; it is quite another to do so while patting yourself on the back for how kind you are whilst doing so.
Sometimes the gains from cultural engineering are enormous, and it may be well worth pursuing forced assimilation just to avoid decades of simmering violence. As I said, I am hardly going to say that this is inherently vile. It's the hypocrisy that I find repellent. At the very least, the awareness that you are doing something that imposes large costs on your ethnic minority should deter you from hand-wringing about the ill-treatment your great-grandfathers got.
i am fairly sure public services in Quebec have to be offered in both French AND English. i know all federal services have to be offered in both.
The threats thing i really don't agree with (I am quite against the charter for forced secularism hiding as the charter of Quebec Values.) As far as i know, there aren't any cuts against businesses owned by ethnic groups. Hell, i'm not advocating against immigrants keeping their culture, i'm merely for immigrants learning French in order to be able to function outside their communities. And i don't think it's by forcing them but rather by giving them incentives to do so that will work.
It is for their own good to learn French, but it's not by forcing them with threats.
hope we can agree on that...
You may like to peruse this page. If you say: I don't see how any of these could impose any costs on minority businesses or minority employees, substitute "English" for "French" throughout and read it again.
It is not possible for an Anglophone to operate an Anglophone business employing fifty Anglophones without submitting to Francization, even if all of them are in western Montreal. The rights of the Francophone who may one day work there are too important.
The geography of Canada means that most of its people stay in the warmer south, and both Quebec City and Montreal have substantial Anglophone communities. Unfortunately, this means that immigrants can function outside their communities by learning English; indeed, if they could, they probably would do so. Immigration to Canada draws extensively from Anglicized societies elsewhere in the world. And because Quebec has sub-replacement fertility, we both know that a flow of immigrants adopting English instead of French would steadily erode the Francophone numerical majority. It is for this reason that your language law prevents immigrants from sending their children to English medium schools.
I doubt we'll see eye-to-eye on this, but i think it's important that businesses be able to serve people in French and i think it's important that Quebec keeps it's language.
The language laws are far from perfect, i know that, but language is kind of a huge part of the culture, and culture is kind of a hugely important thing to, well, most people.
You've said so before.
I do trust that is obvious that if your answer to "but this is an injustice" is "but it's important Quebec keeps its language", then you are acknowledging that Anglophone Quebecers should not have a right to influence what that language is.
Well, look, it's like the francophone communities in Ontario or Manitoba. They get federal services in French, but need to learn English to get most other services because that's the language of the majority.
Similarly, Anglophone communities can exist in Quebec... But they should be bilingual. learning a second language isn't that hard and can be a very handy tool to have.
i'm not sure i get the big injustice, honestly? Is the injustice that immigrants and anglophones can't make insular anglophone-only communities? Is the big injustice that immigrants can't have their children in anglophone schools? is it that anglophones can't refuse service to francophones because they refuse to learn the majority's language?
Honestly, this isn't the thread to debate this...
Indeed, learning a second language isn't that hard. Therefore, all of you should learn English.
As before, my objection is not to a policy of cultural engineering, it is to the pretence that it is liberal.
Personally, i think everyone in Canada should be bilingual, if not more. But the second language classes are dreadfully bad. Most Canadian children in other provinces have a French class, but pretty much no one gets any use out of it. Similarly, we have English classes starting from 4th grade, and yet a lot of people end up never really learning English.
ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Anyone else experiencing an issue with Rome II updating on Steam but then being all, "Ha no just kidding just kidding" and it just pauses in the middle of the update and kind of randomly proceeds over the next fifteen or twenty minutes until it's done?
Believe me, I am hardly going to be righteously demanding that a majority culture cease to enforce its domination on a minority culture.
It's the self-righteous preening that gets to me. The smiling insistence that this is for your own good, don't you know, that the state must most regretfully harass your businesses and your schools and prevent you from setting up any new businesses or schools because that would be colonialism, don't you want to integrate? And that anything resistance is hateful bigotry against them because, don't you know, the British brought your great-grandfathers here and no matter what, no matter whether we give you citizenship and an ID card and let you keep your schools and neighbourhoods and churches for now, you will always, and forever, be guests here in our homeland. We stand equal as citizens - as long you obey us always. And in the thoroughly unfortunate event that you defy us, well, we will come with our knives and expel you from this land forever.
Because this is Malaysia, and it is the homeland of the Malays.
But don't worry, we will definitely be thoroughly reasonable in arbitrating any disputes when we outnumber you nine to one instead of two to one.
I think you're projecting a lot about the Quebec issues.
Possibly. But, conversely, I think you're failing to be objective.
You, at least, are aware that the linguistic nationalism isn't quite as pure in thought as one would prefer - that there is some scrabbling around for excuses to harass people who, inconveniently, do speak French. Therefore: headdress laws. But I was quite stunned when notdroid whipped out "masters in our own home" and then said that it isn't based in xenophobia and racism.
Well, it's not, actually, about xenophobia in that context. have you read his post?
This was said in a time period where the high earners were anglophones and where francophones were not even allowed to get promotion and refused service for speaking french. Not for not speaking english, but for speaking French in the first place.
The French Canadians have been an underclass for a loooong-ass time since the British won the war.
i mean, i don't see what's so abhorrent about forcing public services to serve Francophones when Francophones are the majority in the province. Especially when, historically, being a Francophone was reason enough to refuse service.
aaaand?
I mean, there's a reason I invoked this marvellously analagous situation.
What can i say, i'm dense.
What is abhorrent about forcing public services to serve francophones in french and what's the optimal situation?
There is nothing abhorrent about that, actually. The obvious question is whether the minority Anglophones will served in English, and whether they will continue to be served in English in the future, after decades of demographic engineering with the deliberate end of ensuring Francophone dominance in the political process.
Even failing to do that is not necessarily problematic, conditional on some self-awareness that one is, in fact, trying to remove a minority culture because it's not part of your national identity. It is one thing to harass people into emigration via threats and hostility and a thousand cuts on your businesses and schools; it is quite another to do so while patting yourself on the back for how kind you are whilst doing so.
Sometimes the gains from cultural engineering are enormous, and it may be well worth pursuing forced assimilation just to avoid decades of simmering violence. As I said, I am hardly going to say that this is inherently vile. It's the hypocrisy that I find repellent. At the very least, the awareness that you are doing something that imposes large costs on your ethnic minority should deter you from hand-wringing about the ill-treatment your great-grandfathers got.
i am fairly sure public services in Quebec have to be offered in both French AND English. i know all federal services have to be offered in both.
The threats thing i really don't agree with (I am quite against the charter for forced secularism hiding as the charter of Quebec Values.) As far as i know, there aren't any cuts against businesses owned by ethnic groups. Hell, i'm not advocating against immigrants keeping their culture, i'm merely for immigrants learning French in order to be able to function outside their communities. And i don't think it's by forcing them but rather by giving them incentives to do so that will work.
It is for their own good to learn French, but it's not by forcing them with threats.
hope we can agree on that...
You may like to peruse this page. If you say: I don't see how any of these could impose any costs on minority businesses or minority employees, substitute "English" for "French" throughout and read it again.
It is not possible for an Anglophone to operate an Anglophone business employing fifty Anglophones without submitting to Francization, even if all of them are in western Montreal. The rights of the Francophone who may one day work there are too important.
The geography of Canada means that most of its people stay in the warmer south, and both Quebec City and Montreal have substantial Anglophone communities. Unfortunately, this means that immigrants can function outside their communities by learning English; indeed, if they could, they probably would do so. Immigration to Canada draws extensively from Anglicized societies elsewhere in the world. And because Quebec has sub-replacement fertility, we both know that a flow of immigrants adopting English instead of French would steadily erode the Francophone numerical majority. It is for this reason that your language law prevents immigrants from sending their children to English medium schools.
I doubt we'll see eye-to-eye on this, but i think it's important that businesses be able to serve people in French and i think it's important that Quebec keeps it's language.
The language laws are far from perfect, i know that, but language is kind of a huge part of the culture, and culture is kind of a hugely important thing to, well, most people.
You've said so before.
I do trust that is obvious that if your answer to "but this is an injustice" is "but it's important Quebec keeps its language", then you are acknowledging that Anglophone Quebecers should not have a right to influence what that language is.
Well, look, it's like the francophone communities in Ontario or Manitoba. They get federal services in French, but need to learn English to get most other services because that's the language of the majority.
Similarly, Anglophone communities can exist in Quebec... But they should be bilingual. learning a second language isn't that hard and can be a very handy tool to have.
i'm not sure i get the big injustice, honestly? Is the injustice that immigrants and anglophones can't make insular anglophone-only communities? Is the big injustice that immigrants can't have their children in anglophone schools? is it that anglophones can't refuse service to francophones because they refuse to learn the majority's language?
Honestly, this isn't the thread to debate this...
Indeed, learning a second language isn't that hard. Therefore, all of you should learn English.
As before, my objection is not to a policy of cultural engineering, it is to the pretence that it is liberal.
Personally, i think everyone in Canada should be bilingual, if not more. But the second language classes are dreadfully bad. Most Canadian children in other provinces have a French class, but pretty much no one gets any use out of it. Similarly, we have English classes starting from 4th grade, and yet a lot of people end up never really learning English.
I'm aware. To get it to sink in, you need medium-of-instruction classes. This is how Singapore changed its dominant language twice in two generations. Unfortunately, by definition there can only be one medium.
I do suspect that if everyone in Canada were bilingual, French would rapidly fall out of use. You have a cultural juggernaut known as the United States just to your south.
Unfortunately, as dismal as these observations are, they don't really affect the calculus that dictates that Anglophone Quebecers must necessarily be steadily rendered irrelevant in Quebec for a Francophone identity to remain dominant.
0
Options
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Rodney Dangerfield was very jokey-joke for a standup. But he had the form down perfectly and knew how to recover when things flopped. Miss that guy.
Ronya's point seems to be that a) preserving French language and culture is inherently discriminating against people who aren't native French speakers, because you're deciding to shape the nation through top-down authority rather than letting it shape itself through demographic forces, b) that kind of nationalist project is inherently NOT liberal, and is very much the opposite, since you're CONSERVING the culture and language that you find valuable, the very definition of conservative legislation, and c) this isn't necessarily bad if it has a net positive effect on the province or country! But you have to acknowledge that it requires a modicum of oppression and discrimination, by its very nature, even if it can produce more stability and even prosperity through homogeneity. Which is a very Eastern-nation approach, I think.
Ronya's point seems to be that a) preserving French language and culture is inherently discriminating against people who aren't native French speakers, because you're deciding to shape the nation through top-down authority rather than letting it shape itself through demographic forces, b) that kind of nationalist project is inherently NOT liberal, and is very much the opposite, since you're CONSERVING the culture and language that you find valuable, the very definition of conservative legislation, and c) this isn't necessarily bad if it has a net positive effect on the province or country! But you have to acknowledge that it requires a modicum of oppression and discrimination, by its very nature, even if it can produce more stability and even prosperity through homogeneity. Which is a very Eastern-nation approach, I think.
Broadly, yes. I prefer to highlight the illiberalism at the point where the court fines you for not paying a Francophone to write French signboards for you, rather than where it happens to be conservative in effect, myself. But, yes.
I should note (paging @hamurabi), that it is only Eastern-nation-ish if you ignore all of pre-Word War 1 Europe.
Ronya's point seems to be that a) preserving French language and culture is inherently discriminating against people who aren't native French speakers, because you're deciding to shape the nation through top-down authority rather than letting it shape itself through demographic forces, b) that kind of nationalist project is inherently NOT liberal, and is very much the opposite, since you're CONSERVING the culture and language that you find valuable, the very definition of conservative legislation, and c) this isn't necessarily bad if it has a net positive effect on the province or country! But you have to acknowledge that it requires a modicum of oppression and discrimination, by its very nature, even if it can produce more stability and even prosperity through homogeneity. Which is a very Eastern-nation approach, I think.
Also just the amusing fact that the response of a minority to perceived coercion to use English is ... to coerce other, smaller, minorities to use French.
+1
Options
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
Posts
Well, look, it's like the francophone communities in Ontario or Manitoba. They get federal services in French, but need to learn English to get most other services because that's the language of the majority.
Similarly, Anglophone communities can exist in Quebec... But they should be bilingual. learning a second language isn't that hard and can be a very handy tool to have.
i'm not sure i get the big injustice, honestly? Is the injustice that immigrants and anglophones can't make insular anglophone-only communities? Is the big injustice that immigrants can't have their children in anglophone schools? is it that anglophones can't refuse service to francophones because they refuse to learn the majority's language?
Honestly, this isn't the thread to debate this...
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
yes, why?
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
Indeed, learning a second language isn't that hard. Therefore, all of you should learn English.
As before, my objection is not to a policy of cultural engineering, it is to the pretence that it is liberal.
Great choice, am listening to the intro to Batman: The animated series.
It's so good.
Flip it for me.
NOOOOOOOOOO
(The quarter is heads, Cinders, but fuck)
Personally, i think everyone in Canada should be bilingual, if not more. But the second language classes are dreadfully bad. Most Canadian children in other provinces have a French class, but pretty much no one gets any use out of it. Similarly, we have English classes starting from 4th grade, and yet a lot of people end up never really learning English.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
Tails. Sorry.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
went up the steep side of a very large hill
at least I had pleasant company
And you can't play the game until it finishes?
I don't understand. Just using the internet every day should fix this problem.
But good luck pushing French on the other provinces and pushing English in Quebec. i'm an outlier in my bilingualism...
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
The internet isn't only in English, yo.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
You know what you have to do.
All the good parts are
no, the best part of the internet are the German ones.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
Well, they're German-made... but poop doesn't really talk
Like the Soviets who learned English so they could enjoy The Beetles' music, non-English speakers know the good stuff on the internet is in English.
Rammstein fansites are civilization.
It's just "Du hast"
over and over again
as far as the eye can see.
I'm aware. To get it to sink in, you need medium-of-instruction classes. This is how Singapore changed its dominant language twice in two generations. Unfortunately, by definition there can only be one medium.
I do suspect that if everyone in Canada were bilingual, French would rapidly fall out of use. You have a cultural juggernaut known as the United States just to your south.
Unfortunately, as dismal as these observations are, they don't really affect the calculus that dictates that Anglophone Quebecers must necessarily be steadily rendered irrelevant in Quebec for a Francophone identity to remain dominant.
Depends on the res. If it's 120hz, it's probably only 1080p, which isn't hard to get 120fps at with a middling SLI or beefy single-card setup.
Also: is this from a Real Thing or something?
Counter-point:
Okay, non-magical Christmas poop doesn't really talk
this is a quality only dads possess
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
Broadly, yes. I prefer to highlight the illiberalism at the point where the court fines you for not paying a Francophone to write French signboards for you, rather than where it happens to be conservative in effect, myself. But, yes.
I should note (paging @hamurabi), that it is only Eastern-nation-ish if you ignore all of pre-Word War 1 Europe.
Also just the amusing fact that the response of a minority to perceived coercion to use English is ... to coerce other, smaller, minorities to use French.
the boobs on the chick with the blue sweater