I was getting kinda psyched for this, but hearing that Houser hasn't even tried to not be a mysoginist for this one is a big damn turn off.
I mean you should probably play it yourself and form your own opinions since so far all we know is that *some* reviewers found the game to be misogynistic. i'm willing to bet that it's being exaggerated for clicky clicks.
BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
I'm pretty sure Houser doesn't give a fuck what people on the internet think of him or his writing as long as he continues to swim in a real life money bin.
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"...only mights and maybes."
+3
Mike Danger"Diane..."a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered Userregular
I snapped up MDANGER. That was the screenshot I was trying to post earlier.
I was getting kinda psyched for this, but hearing that Houser hasn't even tried to not be a mysoginist for this one is a big damn turn off.
I mean you should probably play it yourself and form your own opinions since so far all we know is that *some* reviewers found the game to be misogynistic. i'm willing to bet that it's being exaggerated for clicky clicks.
True.
But my previous experience with Houser doesn't exactly inspire confidence, ya feel me?
I've watched almost the entire game on streams and I'm not understanding the complaints about misogyny. Ya there are strippers but that's not misogynistic in my opinion.
I was getting kinda psyched for this, but hearing that Houser hasn't even tried to not be a mysoginist for this one is a big damn turn off.
I mean you should probably play it yourself and form your own opinions since so far all we know is that *some* reviewers found the game to be misogynistic. i'm willing to bet that it's being exaggerated for clicky clicks.
People are throwing a huge tantrum over the Gamespot review, but she only spent a paragraph and a half on that subject out of two very full pages. It was just briefly touched upon. If anything it's the response to it that's being exaggerated. Those user comments gave me brain cancer.
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I think I need to, like, power my PS3 on tonight, since I never use it. Probably has an assload of updates to run that I'm going to be pissed about if I'm wanting to play me some GTA.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I'm going to play it for myself and judge. While I agree the game industry has been very misogynistic in the past, I also feel like it's the big "in topic" right now, so every male power fantasy is being marked as misogynistic from the jump.
I'll play it myself, and see how I feel afterword. Maybe it's a treasure trove of barefoot and pregnant jokes, but somehow I bet it's just a gritty male power fantasy.
I've watched almost the entire game on streams and I'm not understanding the complaints about misogyny. Ya there are strippers but that's not misogynistic in my opinion.
From what I've heard there's not a single proactive female character that isn't accused or portrayed as a slut, hooker or bitch. Just like GTA IV.
This shouldn't come as a surprise, this was expected for a while. For me, it's balanced by all of the main characters being portrayed as bastards. These are not good people. Which to me, lessens the disconnect of doing the terrible stuff you do in the open world. It also sounds from reviews like the various missions "fit" the characters so Trevor has the slaughter missions, Franklin has the driving ones, and Michael the family/professional missions. There's variety, but that's the general idea.
Edit: A large and amusing gif involving Trevor and one of Rockstar's most beloved scourges.
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+1
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
So I just read the the GameSpot review, and I guess I'm missing what all the hype is about? She gives the game a 9.0, and clearly indicates you should play it, she just took issue with the female characterizations, which she has every right to do. I thought this was like, some sort of serious issue, but this review is 99% positive. What's the problem again?
So I just read the the GameSpot review, and I guess I'm missing what all the hype is about? She gives the game a 9.0, and clearly indicates you should play it, she just took issue with the female characterizations, which she has every right to do. I thought this was like, some sort of serious issue, but this review is 99% positive. What's the problem again?
So I just read the the GameSpot review, and I guess I'm missing what all the hype is about? She gives the game a 9.0, and clearly indicates you should play it, she just took issue with the female characterizations, which she has every right to do. I thought this was like, some sort of serious issue, but this review is 99% positive. What's the problem again?
The fucking Internet is the problem.
Or assholes. Maybe it's just assholes that are always the problem.
+4
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Assholes on the internet.
+6
CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
So I just read the the GameSpot review, and I guess I'm missing what all the hype is about? She gives the game a 9.0, and clearly indicates you should play it, she just took issue with the female characterizations, which she has every right to do. I thought this was like, some sort of serious issue, but this review is 99% positive. What's the problem again?
A 9 is not a 10, and the reviewer is transgendered, which apparently some people take a offense to her bringing up gender issue at all. Because only "real" women are allowed to bring that subject up apparently.
Dumb people being dumb mostly. Nothing really to see here, not surprised at gender inequality being in the game, the issue isn't going to change my interest in it at all. GTA games reflect real life more than most other games, and the real world is terribly misogynistic. That doesn't excuse it from lacking strong, believable female characters, but it at least gives the issue a little bit of context.
That said, I sure do hope we get a female protag in one of the GTAV DLCs. Maybe a Bonnie and Clyde style duo pulling off heists of their own, to fit in with the multiple protagonist format?
So I just read the the GameSpot review, and I guess I'm missing what all the hype is about? She gives the game a 9.0, and clearly indicates you should play it, she just took issue with the female characterizations, which she has every right to do. I thought this was like, some sort of serious issue, but this review is 99% positive. What's the problem again?
Any review that is not 10 for a GTA game is considered an outrage. To people who give a shit about that sort of thing, being a full number under 10 must be a mortal insult.
I think people are throwing around misogyny with too much abandon. For the game to be misogynistic it needs to imply some very real hatred of women, which would in turn imply the developers themselves hate women. Which I do not get at all. I will say the Rockstar doesn't have a very high opinion of American society, and that opinion comes out in the charecterization of the ambiance in the game. The characters that are of any import themselves are entirely different.
Anyone not a main character get's this treatment, and it's not limited on a gender basis. The main characters themselves (at the nearly halfway point) are not in any way shape or form sterling examples of humanity. The women you interact with: Mike's wife, Franklin's aunt, etc - they are caricatures of behaviors the developers are seeing in American society. . .as are the male characters you interact with.
I could see this complaint of misogyny if this were a male power fantasy simulator. . .it's not. In the slightest (it would be nice though if there were female police). Could there have been a female protaganist. Probably. Might have been a more interesting game. However I think the label being lobbed is a bit much.
I'm still debating what I will do when I launch the game... I will probably not go through the story at first, I was thinking about checking out some of the side activites (golf etc) first, or I could just turn the whole city upside down. Or I could, you know, just play the story a bit at first and do those things later on...
I think people are throwing around misogyny with too much abandon. For the game to be misogynistic it needs to imply some very real hatred of women, which would in turn imply the developers themselves hate women. Which I do not get at all. I will say the Rockstar doesn't have a very high opinion of American society, and that opinion comes out in the charecterization of the ambiance in the game. The characters that are of any import themselves are entirely different.
Anyone not a main character get's this treatment, and it's not limited on a gender basis. The main characters themselves (at the nearly halfway point) are not in any way shape or form sterling examples of humanity. The women you interact with: Mike's wife, Franklin's aunt, etc - they are caricatures of behaviors the developers are seeing in American society. . .as are the male characters you interact with.
I could see this complaint of misogyny if this were a male power fantasy simulator. . .it's not. In the slightest (it would be nice though if there were female police). Could there have been a female protaganist. Probably. Might have been a more interesting game. However I think the label being lobbed is a bit much.
No, people can and usually are misogynistic without literally hating women.
A lot of people say and do hateful/hurtful things while not actively hating a certain group! This has often been a problem in video games and entertainment media in general. Women who have no character, agency, or clothes when men do etc.
Shit ain't that easy. It's trickier with GTA because as you say, everyone tends to be terrible and/or a caricature.
But I don't think that invalidates the points made. I dunno, I'll play the game soon and then I can be a better judge, but frankly I have little doubt that the points made in that review are valid.
I think people are throwing around misogyny with too much abandon. For the game to be misogynistic it needs to imply some very real hatred of women, which would in turn imply the developers themselves hate women. Which I do not get at all. I will say the Rockstar doesn't have a very high opinion of American society, and that opinion comes out in the charecterization of the ambiance in the game. The characters that are of any import themselves are entirely different.
Anyone not a main character get's this treatment, and it's not limited on a gender basis. The main characters themselves (at the nearly halfway point) are not in any way shape or form sterling examples of humanity. The women you interact with: Mike's wife, Franklin's aunt, etc - they are caricatures of behaviors the developers are seeing in American society. . .as are the male characters you interact with.
I could see this complaint of misogyny if this were a male power fantasy simulator. . .it's not. In the slightest (it would be nice though if there were female police). Could there have been a female protaganist. Probably. Might have been a more interesting game. However I think the label being lobbed is a bit much.
I haven't played GTA5 nor have I watched any of the footage, so instead I will limit my observations to GTA4. Which was also a pretty misogynistic game. Women in GTA games are not treated as anything but punchlines or sex objects, and it permeates at every level. The story is lacking in complex portrayals of women, the gameplay only portrays them as hookers, strippers, or bystanders. The entertainment content (radio, the fake internet, etc.) is filled with sexist jokes.
I think people are throwing around misogyny with too much abandon. For the game to be misogynistic it needs to imply some very real hatred of women, which would in turn imply the developers themselves hate women. Which I do not get at all. I will say the Rockstar doesn't have a very high opinion of American society, and that opinion comes out in the charecterization of the ambiance in the game. The characters that are of any import themselves are entirely different.
Anyone not a main character get's this treatment, and it's not limited on a gender basis. The main characters themselves (at the nearly halfway point) are not in any way shape or form sterling examples of humanity. The women you interact with: Mike's wife, Franklin's aunt, etc - they are caricatures of behaviors the developers are seeing in American society. . .as are the male characters you interact with.
I could see this complaint of misogyny if this were a male power fantasy simulator. . .it's not. In the slightest (it would be nice though if there were female police). Could there have been a female protaganist. Probably. Might have been a more interesting game. However I think the label being lobbed is a bit much.
Name me a Rockstar game that has a woman protagonist. Name me one where the male main protagonist doesn't have to rescue/revenge a female character. Shit, name me one where a woman has a fucking story arc and a dynamic character.
Does Houser hate women? Fuck if I know, I've never met the cat. Can he write them? All evidence points to nope.
This game is getting rave reviews, so I I'll probably redbox it sometime, but it'd be a lie to say I'm not kind of icked out by the writing.
So I just read the the GameSpot review, and I guess I'm missing what all the hype is about? She gives the game a 9.0, and clearly indicates you should play it, she just took issue with the female characterizations, which she has every right to do. I thought this was like, some sort of serious issue, but this review is 99% positive. What's the problem again?
Any review that is not 10 for a GTA game is considered an outrage. To people who give a shit about that sort of thing, being a full number under 10 must be a mortal insult.
And of course there's the flipside, where anyone who gives this game a 10 is nothing but a Rockstar shill because GTA4 sucked so of course GTA5 sucks and the only reason anyone could think differently is because of moneyhats.
So far the only professional reviewers whose opinions I give any weight at all, Adam Sessler and Jeff Gerstmann, both gave it a 5/5 with a review that boils down to 'really good game that has a few issues'. That sounds good enough for me.
It's unfortunate that if any female is captured in a game with a dramatic plot, then the threat of rape is used as a cheap way of upping tension. It is based on the quite realistic assumption that villains are real arse holes and rape is a weapon of choice for these men.
It is used overtly or alluded to in most media these days. I'm not sure if writers feel their work would lack credibility if they left out rape.
Edit: regarding bonnie, it doesn't change the fact that she was tough as hell throughout the whole ordeal and was consistently written as strong even when victimised.
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+2
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Jeff Gerstmann's review is the best one I've read so far, regardless of score. But that may just be because I like Jeff's work in general. He tends to think of games the way I think of games, so our views align a lot.
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this. It's bullshit
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"...only mights and maybes."
True.
But my previous experience with Houser doesn't exactly inspire confidence, ya feel me?
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People are throwing a huge tantrum over the Gamespot review, but she only spent a paragraph and a half on that subject out of two very full pages. It was just briefly touched upon. If anything it's the response to it that's being exaggerated. Those user comments gave me brain cancer.
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I'll play it myself, and see how I feel afterword. Maybe it's a treasure trove of barefoot and pregnant jokes, but somehow I bet it's just a gritty male power fantasy.
Gonna pick up a new HDD tonight so I don't have to pick and choose what stays installed.
From what I've heard there's not a single proactive female character that isn't accused or portrayed as a slut, hooker or bitch. Just like GTA IV.
This shouldn't come as a surprise, this was expected for a while. For me, it's balanced by all of the main characters being portrayed as bastards. These are not good people. Which to me, lessens the disconnect of doing the terrible stuff you do in the open world. It also sounds from reviews like the various missions "fit" the characters so Trevor has the slaughter missions, Franklin has the driving ones, and Michael the family/professional missions. There's variety, but that's the general idea.
Edit: A large and amusing gif involving Trevor and one of Rockstar's most beloved scourges.
Nerds being nerds.
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The fucking Internet is the problem.
Or assholes. Maybe it's just assholes that are always the problem.
A 9 is not a 10, and the reviewer is transgendered, which apparently some people take a offense to her bringing up gender issue at all. Because only "real" women are allowed to bring that subject up apparently.
Dumb people being dumb mostly. Nothing really to see here, not surprised at gender inequality being in the game, the issue isn't going to change my interest in it at all. GTA games reflect real life more than most other games, and the real world is terribly misogynistic. That doesn't excuse it from lacking strong, believable female characters, but it at least gives the issue a little bit of context.
That said, I sure do hope we get a female protag in one of the GTAV DLCs. Maybe a Bonnie and Clyde style duo pulling off heists of their own, to fit in with the multiple protagonist format?
Any review that is not 10 for a GTA game is considered an outrage. To people who give a shit about that sort of thing, being a full number under 10 must be a mortal insult.
Anyone not a main character get's this treatment, and it's not limited on a gender basis. The main characters themselves (at the nearly halfway point) are not in any way shape or form sterling examples of humanity. The women you interact with: Mike's wife, Franklin's aunt, etc - they are caricatures of behaviors the developers are seeing in American society. . .as are the male characters you interact with.
I could see this complaint of misogyny if this were a male power fantasy simulator. . .it's not. In the slightest (it would be nice though if there were female police). Could there have been a female protaganist. Probably. Might have been a more interesting game. However I think the label being lobbed is a bit much.
Well, that narrows it down.
So many possibilities :O
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No, people can and usually are misogynistic without literally hating women.
A lot of people say and do hateful/hurtful things while not actively hating a certain group! This has often been a problem in video games and entertainment media in general. Women who have no character, agency, or clothes when men do etc.
Shit ain't that easy. It's trickier with GTA because as you say, everyone tends to be terrible and/or a caricature.
But I don't think that invalidates the points made. I dunno, I'll play the game soon and then I can be a better judge, but frankly I have little doubt that the points made in that review are valid.
I haven't played GTA5 nor have I watched any of the footage, so instead I will limit my observations to GTA4. Which was also a pretty misogynistic game. Women in GTA games are not treated as anything but punchlines or sex objects, and it permeates at every level. The story is lacking in complex portrayals of women, the gameplay only portrays them as hookers, strippers, or bystanders. The entertainment content (radio, the fake internet, etc.) is filled with sexist jokes.
Name me a Rockstar game that has a woman protagonist. Name me one where the male main protagonist doesn't have to rescue/revenge a female character. Shit, name me one where a woman has a fucking story arc and a dynamic character.
Does Houser hate women? Fuck if I know, I've never met the cat. Can he write them? All evidence points to nope.
This game is getting rave reviews, so I I'll probably redbox it sometime, but it'd be a lie to say I'm not kind of icked out by the writing.
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Any recommendations? Do I need to buy one 'made' for the 360?
Who ended up kidnapped, beaten, threatened with rape, and had to be rescued by John Marston.
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But at some point in the story she becomes the damsel John has to rescue...
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So far the only professional reviewers whose opinions I give any weight at all, Adam Sessler and Jeff Gerstmann, both gave it a 5/5 with a review that boils down to 'really good game that has a few issues'. That sounds good enough for me.
It is used overtly or alluded to in most media these days. I'm not sure if writers feel their work would lack credibility if they left out rape.
Edit: regarding bonnie, it doesn't change the fact that she was tough as hell throughout the whole ordeal and was consistently written as strong even when victimised.
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