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[Let's Play Democracy]Total War: Rome II - The confederacy expands. Join our Council!
FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
Oh, dear.
Are you the magic man?
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FaranguI am a beardy manWith a beardy planRegistered Userregular
Update #.5 - I think you underestimate their chances!
So after the Senate deliberated, housekeeping was performed. Lt. Nerfthatman christened his army group:
He also studied the settlement before he departed.
Each existing building can be upgraded a number of times. This is the listing for the farm land we currently have there. As you can see, there are a plethora of options, and all of them are expensive, so when it comes time to upgrade buildings, we must choose wisely. But that is for the future. We were interested in construction:
The artisans' lodging is the best of both worlds for us at the current moment, since it both brings in more money, and will also expand our recruitment possibilities when it is built in 2 turns. It cost a hefty 1200, but the investment will be worth it.
While Nemossos is being worked on, Frei moves his army into striking distance of Bibracte, while Retaba further positions to explore. Seeing a cluster of capitals in the Northeast, I position him there.
Meanwhile, Nerfthatman moves Southwest, not getting far to be able to muster some Celtic Mercenaries and, on my authority, one more group of Levied spearmen, just to have more bodies to throw at this point in time. Meanwhile, JusticeforPluto takes to his new office with aplomb, and begins to negotiate with other tribes to have more money flow into our coffers. Massilia rejects our offer, which had a moderate chance of approval; they are not trustworthy, it seems. The Vivisci rejected trade as well, although that had much less chance of happening. While on the Diplomacy screen, I notice the perks of being in a defensive pact:
It remains to be seen with what speed and ferocity the Pictones shall respond, but assistance is assistance. And with that, we end our first turn, and we begin the next greeted by the following message:
It seems the Pictones are eager to remain friends. Meanwhile, Retaba completes his assignment, meeting no less than three new tribal groups to the East. And while they are also all landlocked, prohibiting trade, Massilia seems to change their previous tune:
Sure it is, pal
A decent sum for us to pay, but they are not in any of the settlements we need to re-unite our regions, so they rank low on the list of targets, which gives us more time to recoup our investment. We agree, for now. Meanwhile, Nerf sets up on the very edge our border with the Vivisci:
There, he is ideally poised to act as either a defensive force to buy time for Frei to return, or to act as a lightning strike across the border. With an anchor in the West, Frei marches on to Bibracte, where we learn the first lesson of warfare: It pays to properly scout your surroundings and targets. You see, that army he saw in passing, was actually just passing through. He learned nothing of the garrison at the city. So imagine our surprise when Frei arrives, and finds this:
Not only are we outnumbered, but his troops are of higher defensive quality(though only marginally), and since this is a regional capital, we have walls and defensive towers to get through, with nothing but hastily constructed ladders and large arrow shields. Not only that, but one of the army groups will, since they are reinforcing, enter the battlefield from a flanking position. We tell Frei to maintain the siege and begin construction of the ladders, which will take a turn or two, while we ponder. As it zooms out, we see this:
The red skulls indicate that the army is suffering from attrition - theirs from being under siege, ours from holding campaigns in enemy territory. Every turn, each unit in that army group will lose somewhere from 5-10% of their men, until attrition is lifted.
So here are our options:
A - Maintain the siege. If we can keep the siege going for three turns, uninterrupted, we will starve them out and take the fort. In reality this doesn't happen often, since the defenders will often attempt a last minute sally to defeat the besiegers, but then this means that they will have to leave their walls and come to us. Of course, if they have other units wandering about that we don't know about, they will return home with all due haste, and this will just make our position even worse.
B - Reinforce the siege. While the Pictones have said they will provide support, we do not know the timetable by which they will arrive, nor their numbers. Nerf will take at least two turns to arrive, possibly three. We can raise the third army from Nemossos to prevent this kind of thing happening in the future, but it would not be likely to get there any sooner than Nerf, and it would start with even fewer men than the Rhone Roughnecks had.
C - Break the siege. Now that we know better the garrison in the city, temporarily call Frei off the front lines. This would give the Aedui time to recruit more troops, but it would also give that time to us, and we would return with bigger, more well equipped armies, as well as Pictone support and advance action from Retaba.
D - Charge now. We do have units with flaming spears, so technically we can get through their walls without siege equipment. I have not attempted that before, however, and losses would be heavy.
Also I will formally protest that trade agreement. We must take future Marseilles for future trade purposes.
The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
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FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
edited September 2013
Typical advice on war from those with no experience in war. We went after a city while "focusing on the economy" without reinforcing for a siege on a provincial capital. And with no proper scouting!
If we maintain the siege, it is very likely that they will sally out next turn. If they sally out with the army and the garrison, the army is either lost or crippled (unless there is some battlefield wizardry going on). Since we are so outnumbered, it's unlikely that they wont sally out before reinforcements arrive.
The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
edited September 2013
Methinks the senators have been drinking too much from the lead plumbing.
You send an army in blind, no scouting, into the heart of enemy territory - their capital - which is fortified with walls, and an extra army. You send the general with bottom tier troops, without allowing him to recruit at all for the siege.
I fully expect the next decision to be "go to the shores, stab at the waves."
Your general is fully versed in war. Your wits in regard to that are severely lacking.
(the only way to win is if Farangu can get lucky with the AI when they sally out, but it's unlikely because we just dont have the troops. they'll sally out either next turn or the one after)
Also, the Gauls retreated plenty... they were fierce, but not dumb.
Wait, we're outnumbered? I was busy eating grapes on my triclinium and that information completely slipped past me, I shall have to have my messenger whipped. In which case I shall defer to the military expertise of General Frei and change my answer to:
B - Reinforce the siege
I agree with breaking the siege and reinforcing, we're already at war with them it didn't cost us anything. I would also like to point out that I did advise scouting and poisoning the enemy before I was sent on a leisurely stroll through the countryside...
Man, being a senator is hard. I'm going to need like a whole bushel of grapes to get over the stress of all this politicking.
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FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
edited September 2013
Since recruitment has been deferred to me, and since you all want the city, your general will deliver you the city. I have a plan, and it is a plan that does not involve retreat or reinforcement.
I believe I can hold the siege, draw them into the field, and rout them there. They will have to sally out to meet me, and I will use the woods to set an ambush. After I spring the trap and rout them, the city will be ours.
(once I was able to actually take a good look at things, I realized I could hire a mercenary unit for rather cheap, and that the battlefield would be wooded since we were so close to the forest - allowing me to set up an ambush and force a rout, while the mercenary troop would let my line hold long enough. so, not as unwinnable as it looked at first. just a couple of details I wouldn't have seen without being able to look at the savegame first. without being able to see and do all that, retreat would have been best.)
The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
Since recruitment has been deferred to me, and since you all want the city, your general will deliver you the city. I have a plan, and it is a plan that does not involve retreat or reinforcement.
I believe I can hold the siege, draw them into the field, and rout them there. They will have to sally out to meet me, and I will use the woods to set an ambush. After I spring the trap and rout them, the city will be ours.
(once I was able to actually take a good look at things, I realized I could hire a mercenary unit for rather cheap, and that the battlefield would be wooded since we were so close to the forest - allowing me to set up an ambush and force a rout, while the mercenary troop would let my line hold long enough. so, not as unwinnable as it looked at first. just a couple of details I wouldn't have seen without being able to look at the savegame first. without being able to see and do all that, retreat would have been best.)
That... that's what I said in the first place!
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FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
Since recruitment has been deferred to me, and since you all want the city, your general will deliver you the city. I have a plan, and it is a plan that does not involve retreat or reinforcement.
I believe I can hold the siege, draw them into the field, and rout them there. They will have to sally out to meet me, and I will use the woods to set an ambush. After I spring the trap and rout them, the city will be ours.
(once I was able to actually take a good look at things, I realized I could hire a mercenary unit for rather cheap, and that the battlefield would be wooded since we were so close to the forest - allowing me to set up an ambush and force a rout, while the mercenary troop would let my line hold long enough. so, not as unwinnable as it looked at first. just a couple of details I wouldn't have seen without being able to look at the savegame first. without being able to see and do all that, retreat would have been best.)
That... that's what I said in the first place!
Well, I was trying to respond from the "in character" point of view, but to put it out simply:
With just the info from the post, there was no real way of winning, which I knew from playing the game - they could sally out and break morale pretty easily, and I didn't know a mercenary unit was available. Farangu sent me the save, so then I was able to see exactly what I was looking at and what I had available. So, at the start, before we knew any of that? No chance. With the ability to hire a mercenary before the next turn, and then realizing I could pull back into the woods and use that mercenary as the centerpiece of a victory? Easy after that.
So, if I did not have those things that I found out after that, I would still say a retreat would be in order. After getting into it and finding those options, I realized that I absolutely could win. Credit where it's due, I wouldn't have even asked to look deeper had you guys not insisted on hasty action. But, yeah - victory and my army are what I care about, and it takes a deeper look to make sure that I can obtain and preserve that.
I cannot believe my ears, for it seems as though my fellow senators have gone mad! Are you so willing to throw away the lives of your brothers? We must Redacted to retreat for reinforcements, then chase down their army and break it in the field before restoring the siege.
Seriously guys, our odds are terrible here. Being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not good when you only have basic unarmored spearman.
Vic on
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FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
edited September 2013
I am not a senator, I am the general in the field, down there with the troops with first-hand experience. We're also not outnumbered 2:1 and never were. Ultimately, it's up to Farangu on what he wants to do, but the Council should be able to decide where armies go to war, civic matters, etc... but if a general is deployed in the field, conducting a siege or a battle, there's really nothing a council can do, otherwise there's no point in the general being there. I mean, in this situation my army is conducting a siege: the wolves are at the proverbial (and real) gates, there's really no way for a council or senate to go back and forth and micromanage that.
Basically my thoughts were; our army is mainly spearmen, those are super-good in defense, so why not let them smash themselves into our big wall of spears? Even slightly outnumbered we should be fine. Although I also assumed that Frei's army was our entire army but it sounds like we have two "armies" and the way you manage armies in TWII is a bit different from the other TW games. Haven't actually played TWII yet.
I am not a senator, I am the general in the field, down there with the troops with first-hand experience. We're also not outnumbered 2:1 and never were. Ultimately, it's up to Farangu on what he wants to do, but the Council should be able to decide where armies go to war, civic matters, etc... but if a general is deployed in the field, conducting a siege or a battle, there's really nothing a council can do, otherwise there's no point in the general being there. I mean, in this situation my army is conducting a siege: the wolves are at the proverbial (and real) gates, there's really no way for a council or senate to go back and forth and micromanage that.
You are right, I did not check the screenshot well enough. My vote to retreat still stands, but I agree that it makes sense that you would be given final say in this matter as it seems unlikely the senate would be able to get orders on the matter to the front in time.
I would like to change my vote to B: Reinforce the siege. We can not allow these weak fools to remain in control of land and spoils that rightly belongs to us for a second longer than necessary.
I would also like to reiterate that the claims that my new golden litter was given to me as a bribe are entirely baseless. It was a gift from my dear cousin Barthilax, and none of you can prove otherwise.
I would like to change my vote to B: Reinforce the siege. We can not allow these weak fools to remain in control of land and spoils that rightly belongs to us for a second longer than necessary.
I would also like to reiterate that the claims that my new golden litter was given to me as a bribe are entirely baseless. It was a gift from my dear cousin Barthilax, and none of you can prove otherwise.
*whistles*
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FaranguI am a beardy manWith a beardy planRegistered Userregular
Alright then. Since there was a tie between maintain and reinforce, Frei took the initiative and held the siege...but I do not wish a repeat of this to happen again. The third army shall be mobilized. While it will most likely take some years to get him up to fighting strength, I would like my generals to be properly supported in the field, and not have to resort to sell-swords. This, coupled with converting the buildings in Bibracte to our faction, have a chance of eating a good portion of our reserve. We shall see.
FaranguI am a beardy manWith a beardy planRegistered Userregular
Update #1 - Out of the frying pan
So we left last time with a tricky pickle: unexpected enemy garrisons made our siege of Bibracte not as much of a sure thing as we had counted on. After some...unexpected deliberation, Frei decided to maintain the siege, and force a battle on his terms. At the start of the next turn, Retaba moved closer to Bibracte to keep an eye on any unexpected enemy reinforcements.
Meanwhile, as the turn started, our Artisan's Lodging finished construction. It will bring in some more coin, while allowing generals to add to their mustering lists:
Spear Warriors(bit more raised stats than the Levied freemen, but still not a ton of damage. More defensive) - 460 to recruit
Celtic Skirmishers(Javelin troops, decent damage and range. Frei started with them, now anyone can recruit) - 320 to recruit
These will be added to the roster in the state of the tribe, in the 2nd post. Also, our initial civic research finished, which opened up three more trees of civic research. Considering the near unanimous Council decision to focus on economy, the most economic friendly research was chosen. Taking two turns, the Knowledge of the Oak will add an extra 5% to the funding given to us by any culture buildings, and reduce political costs by 5%. Also, Menossos began construction on some Cattle Pens. It will double the money coming in from the fields, and also double our food surplus, which will encourage growth, and also increases our garrison size. It will finish construction in two turns, and cost us 1100. Nemossos also finished its flurry of activity with the raising of the third army group, led by 2nd Lt. @Kadoken who will need to determine his army name and initial mustering order.
With no action from the Aedui, we continue to starve them out, and the next turn greets us with:
The factions are to the Northeast, so we will have to bear this in mind as we expand in that direction. The important news is that, with the Aedui nearing starvation, they decide to sally forth and make their stand. Fortunately, the siege was more damaging to them than it was to us:
The Aedui, possessing more guile than we gave them credit for, decide to wait until a deep fog had settled on the battlefield. They also came from an angle that left us exposed:
Fortunately, Frei's positioning left an interesting opportunity: There were some small patches of trees, to the South of the settlement, that created a small passage which formed a natural place to put some appetizing bait: our skirmishers and mercenary swordsmen. With the freemen and general hiding in the trees, and the bait's backs to the edge of the zone, the plan was to attempt an encirclement:
Within a few minutes of waiting, our men begin to see the Aedui emerge from the fog. They assume a defensive stance and begin shouting insults, hoping to draw in the prey.
Unfortunately, the forest was not as dense as we hoped. After the enemy emerged from the town, their main bulk made a beeline for our Western ambushers.
It became apparent that they hoped to kill Frei personally, and thereby break the spirit of the men. Fortunately, their arrogance was their undoing: The main bulk of the forces rushed in, leaving their slingers and skirmishers behind to pelt at the freemen. Our other ambushing force and skirmishers were ignored for the most part. So our skirmishers advanced to fire on the enemy in the forest, with the mercenaries protecting them. With a couple of lucky spears, the enemy general soon falls to us. The other ambushing force, on the other hand, ran straight for the enemy skirmishers, knowing that a farmer with a spear can win against a farmer with a sling:
Before long, the Aedui are routed.
As they run, however, Frei takes stock of his troops. The settlement was taken, but at great cost.
50% of Frei's force was lost in the attack. The men that survived now have to make some choices, the first of which is what to do with the prisoners. 111 men were captured. We had the choice of either killing them, releasing them, or sending them home as slave labor. Releasing them makes the faction more amenable to us, killing them the opposite. Sending them as slave labor helps bring in some more money, but too many slaves can lead to revolts. We will bear that in mind for future attempts, but for now, we could use the economic kickstart. We take them as slaves.
We also needed to decide the fate of Bibracte. When we take a settlement, we can either occupy it, loot it, or raze it. Occupying it brings the lowest public order penalty, but keeps buildings of a different culture intact. Looting it often brings a decent sum into our coffers, but we would need to be very watchful of revolts over the next few turns, and there is a chance of damaging buildings. Razing it pretty much destroys or severely damages all buildings, and imposes the harshest public order penalty. While the extra money from looting would be nice, we do not want to give that money right back to repairs, and all of their buildings are immediately usable by us, so Frei occupies the settlement. This works well, because it will be at least 3 or 4 turns for his army to replenish their strength.
But after these decisions were made, we see the fruits of our labors:
The Aedui are no more! Now, we can plan our next move with more care, and-
The Light of Belenos took severe casualties. We should not expect them to be at fighting strength for at least three turns, and they will be at full strength in four. As such, I am recommending that Frei remain garrisoned at Bibracte. He will help quell disorder generated from the takeover, and can act as a Northern guard in case any other tribes get bright ideas. Recruitment options in this region, however, will be sparse for sometime, as covered in Finances. The Roughnecks are at the edge of our border with the Vivisci, and can make good time for our enemies, the Volcae. However, crossing the border may provoke the Vivisci into doing something rather rash, and with our largest army on the mend, a second war might not turn out well for us. Once again, we have called on the Pictones to aid us, but we should not expect much, as they sent no-one to aid at Bibracte.
Kadoken's army group was just mustered at Menossos, however it is just his unit at this time. Once he leaves the Menossos region, his recruitment options go down drastically. Retaba is out of position, and will take about two turns to begin scouting the enemy. The major decision at this time, is how we will utilize the Roughnecks.
Council -
A - Nerfthatman should cross the border to prosecute war on the Volcae, hoping the Vivisci will not see this as an affront
B - Nerfthatman should begin the long march to the East, and take the Southern road to Volcae. A second war is not something we can tolerate.
C - Nerfthatman got to his station through competence. Let him decide where the Roughnecks march.
1 - The military should continue to be responsible for their own spending.
2 - The military should be given a collective budget for recruitment.
3 - The military should recruit under Council mandate.
@Kadoken, @Frei, and @NerfThatMan: Please list how you would like to muster your armies over the next couple of turns.
Finances:
The capture of Bibracte did bring in a bit more of a continued income. Unfortunately, it will not be in position to expand for sometime, which means the only buildings there for the immediate future are a city and enclosed fields. We can either improve the city, which will improve everything about the capital, but cost 3000. Or, we can improve the fields, and focus on any number of areas - economy, cavalry recruitment, food production - for less money.
In Nemossos, the cattle pens are 1 turn away from completion, so any work can focus on either the city, which improves everything for about as much as Bibracte's city, or improve the Artisan's Lodging, which can bring in anywhere from 80-150 more gold, and either focus on more wealth, or more military options.
Council -
A - Focus on improving Bibracte, spending no more than X/focus on improving Y building
B - Focus on improving Nemossos, spending no more than X/focus on improving Y building
C - Save city improvements for a more stable time
Research:
The Knowledge of the Oak finished in this turn, which adds a small percentage boost to cultural building wealth production. The military branch still needs its primary technology(Supply Foraging) researched, which will unlock the Champion agent, and unlock the construction of blacksmiths. The civic branch now has the three trees:
Tribal Council (encourages tax bonuses, lower agent costs, unlocks buildings with that focus. Further progression lowers corruption in cities)
Tribal Economy (modest wealth bonuses from agricultural and cultural buildings, unlocks buildings with that focus. Further progression increases food)
Construction (Encourages growth, wealth from industrial buildings and capital bonuses. Further progression reduces construction costs)
Interestingly enough, we are pretty well liked for Gallic barbarians. The only faction that hates us are the Volcae, who just declared war on us. The Vivisci are on the frosty side of neutral, and the Carnutes to our North really don't care about us either way. Despite that, all responses for trade were either met with rejection, or requests for exorbitant payments, so no new agreements were reached.
Going from the military section, the quickest route to the Volcae are through the Vivisci. It is possible that, with a monetary gift, they will not respond to our intrusions with a declaration of war. This would enable us to focus on one enemy at a time, and give Frei time to lick his wounds.
A - Offer a payment to the Vivisci to hopefully delay war with them, and quickly march on the Volcae
B - They are not worth the effort. What the gods bring, they bring.
So the battle probably could have been handled a bit better. Apologies for mangling your group, Frei. I'd be happy to send you game files for you to fight in the future, if you so desire.
Military: A - Nerfthatman should cross the border to prosecute war on the Volcae, hoping the Vivisci will not see this as an affront
B - Nerfthatman should begin the long march to the East, and take the Southern road to Volcae. A second war is not something we can tolerate.
C - Nerfthatman got to his station through competence. Let him decide where the Roughnecks march.
1 - The military should continue to be responsible for their own spending.
2 - The military should be given a collective budget for recruitment.
3 - The military should recruit under Council mandate.
Finances: A - Focus on improving Bibracte, spending no more than X/focus on improving Y building
B - Focus on improving Nemossos, spending no more than X/focus on improving Y building
C - Save city improvements for a more stable time
Research: A - Unlock the military trees
B - Focus on Construction
C - Focus on Tribal Council
D - Focus on Tribal Economy
Diplomacy: A - Offer a payment to the Vivisci to hopefully delay war with them, and quickly march on the Volcae
B - They are not worth the effort. What the gods bring, they bring.
What's the time difference between Operation Hare and Operation Tortoise? Are we talking 2 turns, 3 turns, how long exactly? And have any enemy forces been spotted?
The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
I have not acquired the game (yet) so I'm a little blind to the intricacies of the units. However, with my past experience, I will compose my army as such, when the times comes for recruitment: 4 Ranged units (Archers, slings, javelins, whatever is available now) 8 spearmen, 4 swordsmen, and 3 cavalry. If cavalry is not available, add to the number of spears and ranged units as you see fit.
One thing that would help would be being able to see what we have recruit, and where.
As I loathe the Romans, I shall mock them with my army's name. I wish my band to be called Itae Occisae (Generation Kill in Latin)
Actually, could we get some general budget info as well? What's the treasury like, what is our income, what are our expenses, how much would new troops cost to maintain, that kind of thing?
The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
Posts
He also studied the settlement before he departed.
Each existing building can be upgraded a number of times. This is the listing for the farm land we currently have there. As you can see, there are a plethora of options, and all of them are expensive, so when it comes time to upgrade buildings, we must choose wisely. But that is for the future. We were interested in construction:
The artisans' lodging is the best of both worlds for us at the current moment, since it both brings in more money, and will also expand our recruitment possibilities when it is built in 2 turns. It cost a hefty 1200, but the investment will be worth it.
While Nemossos is being worked on, Frei moves his army into striking distance of Bibracte, while Retaba further positions to explore. Seeing a cluster of capitals in the Northeast, I position him there.
Meanwhile, Nerfthatman moves Southwest, not getting far to be able to muster some Celtic Mercenaries and, on my authority, one more group of Levied spearmen, just to have more bodies to throw at this point in time. Meanwhile, JusticeforPluto takes to his new office with aplomb, and begins to negotiate with other tribes to have more money flow into our coffers. Massilia rejects our offer, which had a moderate chance of approval; they are not trustworthy, it seems. The Vivisci rejected trade as well, although that had much less chance of happening. While on the Diplomacy screen, I notice the perks of being in a defensive pact:
It remains to be seen with what speed and ferocity the Pictones shall respond, but assistance is assistance. And with that, we end our first turn, and we begin the next greeted by the following message:
It seems the Pictones are eager to remain friends. Meanwhile, Retaba completes his assignment, meeting no less than three new tribal groups to the East. And while they are also all landlocked, prohibiting trade, Massilia seems to change their previous tune:
Sure it is, pal
A decent sum for us to pay, but they are not in any of the settlements we need to re-unite our regions, so they rank low on the list of targets, which gives us more time to recoup our investment. We agree, for now. Meanwhile, Nerf sets up on the very edge our border with the Vivisci:
There, he is ideally poised to act as either a defensive force to buy time for Frei to return, or to act as a lightning strike across the border. With an anchor in the West, Frei marches on to Bibracte, where we learn the first lesson of warfare: It pays to properly scout your surroundings and targets. You see, that army he saw in passing, was actually just passing through. He learned nothing of the garrison at the city. So imagine our surprise when Frei arrives, and finds this:
Not only are we outnumbered, but his troops are of higher defensive quality(though only marginally), and since this is a regional capital, we have walls and defensive towers to get through, with nothing but hastily constructed ladders and large arrow shields. Not only that, but one of the army groups will, since they are reinforcing, enter the battlefield from a flanking position. We tell Frei to maintain the siege and begin construction of the ladders, which will take a turn or two, while we ponder. As it zooms out, we see this:
The red skulls indicate that the army is suffering from attrition - theirs from being under siege, ours from holding campaigns in enemy territory. Every turn, each unit in that army group will lose somewhere from 5-10% of their men, until attrition is lifted.
So here are our options:
A - Maintain the siege. If we can keep the siege going for three turns, uninterrupted, we will starve them out and take the fort. In reality this doesn't happen often, since the defenders will often attempt a last minute sally to defeat the besiegers, but then this means that they will have to leave their walls and come to us. Of course, if they have other units wandering about that we don't know about, they will return home with all due haste, and this will just make our position even worse.
B - Reinforce the siege. While the Pictones have said they will provide support, we do not know the timetable by which they will arrive, nor their numbers. Nerf will take at least two turns to arrive, possibly three. We can raise the third army from Nemossos to prevent this kind of thing happening in the future, but it would not be likely to get there any sooner than Nerf, and it would start with even fewer men than the Rhone Roughnecks had.
C - Break the siege. Now that we know better the garrison in the city, temporarily call Frei off the front lines. This would give the Aedui time to recruit more troops, but it would also give that time to us, and we would return with bigger, more well equipped armies, as well as Pictone support and advance action from Retaba.
D - Charge now. We do have units with flaming spears, so technically we can get through their walls without siege equipment. I have not attempted that before, however, and losses would be heavy.
Since @Frei is the senior military officer on site, we will listen to his advice, as well as that of the Senate(@Phyphor @Vic @Mr Ray @enlightenedbum @firewaterword).
Chicago Megagame group
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Also I will formally protest that trade agreement. We must take future Marseilles for future trade purposes.
If we maintain the siege, it is very likely that they will sally out next turn. If they sally out with the army and the garrison, the army is either lost or crippled (unless there is some battlefield wizardry going on). Since we are so outnumbered, it's unlikely that they wont sally out before reinforcements arrive.
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Get better wizards.
You send an army in blind, no scouting, into the heart of enemy territory - their capital - which is fortified with walls, and an extra army. You send the general with bottom tier troops, without allowing him to recruit at all for the siege.
I fully expect the next decision to be "go to the shores, stab at the waves."
Your general is fully versed in war. Your wits in regard to that are severely lacking.
(the only way to win is if Farangu can get lucky with the AI when they sally out, but it's unlikely because we just dont have the troops. they'll sally out either next turn or the one after)
Also, the Gauls retreated plenty... they were fierce, but not dumb.
However, if our general wishes to retreat, I will defer to him
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Even these savages would realize our building siegeworks meant only one thing.
Shore up our attack, but feign if attacked; reinforcements will see this conflict ended.
B - Reinforce the siege
Ahh, fuck it.
Q - Whatever Frei thinks is best
Man, being a senator is hard. I'm going to need like a whole bushel of grapes to get over the stress of all this politicking.
I believe I can hold the siege, draw them into the field, and rout them there. They will have to sally out to meet me, and I will use the woods to set an ambush. After I spring the trap and rout them, the city will be ours.
(once I was able to actually take a good look at things, I realized I could hire a mercenary unit for rather cheap, and that the battlefield would be wooded since we were so close to the forest - allowing me to set up an ambush and force a rout, while the mercenary troop would let my line hold long enough. so, not as unwinnable as it looked at first. just a couple of details I wouldn't have seen without being able to look at the savegame first. without being able to see and do all that, retreat would have been best.)
That... that's what I said in the first place!
Well, I was trying to respond from the "in character" point of view, but to put it out simply:
With just the info from the post, there was no real way of winning, which I knew from playing the game - they could sally out and break morale pretty easily, and I didn't know a mercenary unit was available. Farangu sent me the save, so then I was able to see exactly what I was looking at and what I had available. So, at the start, before we knew any of that? No chance. With the ability to hire a mercenary before the next turn, and then realizing I could pull back into the woods and use that mercenary as the centerpiece of a victory? Easy after that.
So, if I did not have those things that I found out after that, I would still say a retreat would be in order. After getting into it and finding those options, I realized that I absolutely could win. Credit where it's due, I wouldn't have even asked to look deeper had you guys not insisted on hasty action. But, yeah - victory and my army are what I care about, and it takes a deeper look to make sure that I can obtain and preserve that.
Seriously guys, our odds are terrible here. Being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not good when you only have basic unarmored spearman.
You are right, I did not check the screenshot well enough. My vote to retreat still stands, but I agree that it makes sense that you would be given final say in this matter as it seems unlikely the senate would be able to get orders on the matter to the front in time.
I would also like to reiterate that the claims that my new golden litter was given to me as a bribe are entirely baseless. It was a gift from my dear cousin Barthilax, and none of you can prove otherwise.
*whistles*
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The job of a spy, no doubt!
Wise words. Perhaps you could join our council and further share your great wisdom?
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But we have gained another.
Update incoming.
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So we left last time with a tricky pickle: unexpected enemy garrisons made our siege of Bibracte not as much of a sure thing as we had counted on. After some...unexpected deliberation, Frei decided to maintain the siege, and force a battle on his terms. At the start of the next turn, Retaba moved closer to Bibracte to keep an eye on any unexpected enemy reinforcements.
Meanwhile, as the turn started, our Artisan's Lodging finished construction. It will bring in some more coin, while allowing generals to add to their mustering lists:
Spear Warriors(bit more raised stats than the Levied freemen, but still not a ton of damage. More defensive) - 460 to recruit
Celtic Skirmishers(Javelin troops, decent damage and range. Frei started with them, now anyone can recruit) - 320 to recruit
These will be added to the roster in the state of the tribe, in the 2nd post. Also, our initial civic research finished, which opened up three more trees of civic research. Considering the near unanimous Council decision to focus on economy, the most economic friendly research was chosen. Taking two turns, the Knowledge of the Oak will add an extra 5% to the funding given to us by any culture buildings, and reduce political costs by 5%. Also, Menossos began construction on some Cattle Pens. It will double the money coming in from the fields, and also double our food surplus, which will encourage growth, and also increases our garrison size. It will finish construction in two turns, and cost us 1100. Nemossos also finished its flurry of activity with the raising of the third army group, led by 2nd Lt. @Kadoken who will need to determine his army name and initial mustering order.
With no action from the Aedui, we continue to starve them out, and the next turn greets us with:
The factions are to the Northeast, so we will have to bear this in mind as we expand in that direction. The important news is that, with the Aedui nearing starvation, they decide to sally forth and make their stand. Fortunately, the siege was more damaging to them than it was to us:
The Aedui, possessing more guile than we gave them credit for, decide to wait until a deep fog had settled on the battlefield. They also came from an angle that left us exposed:
Fortunately, Frei's positioning left an interesting opportunity: There were some small patches of trees, to the South of the settlement, that created a small passage which formed a natural place to put some appetizing bait: our skirmishers and mercenary swordsmen. With the freemen and general hiding in the trees, and the bait's backs to the edge of the zone, the plan was to attempt an encirclement:
Within a few minutes of waiting, our men begin to see the Aedui emerge from the fog. They assume a defensive stance and begin shouting insults, hoping to draw in the prey.
Unfortunately, the forest was not as dense as we hoped. After the enemy emerged from the town, their main bulk made a beeline for our Western ambushers.
It became apparent that they hoped to kill Frei personally, and thereby break the spirit of the men. Fortunately, their arrogance was their undoing: The main bulk of the forces rushed in, leaving their slingers and skirmishers behind to pelt at the freemen. Our other ambushing force and skirmishers were ignored for the most part. So our skirmishers advanced to fire on the enemy in the forest, with the mercenaries protecting them. With a couple of lucky spears, the enemy general soon falls to us. The other ambushing force, on the other hand, ran straight for the enemy skirmishers, knowing that a farmer with a spear can win against a farmer with a sling:
Before long, the Aedui are routed.
As they run, however, Frei takes stock of his troops. The settlement was taken, but at great cost.
50% of Frei's force was lost in the attack. The men that survived now have to make some choices, the first of which is what to do with the prisoners. 111 men were captured. We had the choice of either killing them, releasing them, or sending them home as slave labor. Releasing them makes the faction more amenable to us, killing them the opposite. Sending them as slave labor helps bring in some more money, but too many slaves can lead to revolts. We will bear that in mind for future attempts, but for now, we could use the economic kickstart. We take them as slaves.
We also needed to decide the fate of Bibracte. When we take a settlement, we can either occupy it, loot it, or raze it. Occupying it brings the lowest public order penalty, but keeps buildings of a different culture intact. Looting it often brings a decent sum into our coffers, but we would need to be very watchful of revolts over the next few turns, and there is a chance of damaging buildings. Razing it pretty much destroys or severely damages all buildings, and imposes the harshest public order penalty. While the extra money from looting would be nice, we do not want to give that money right back to repairs, and all of their buildings are immediately usable by us, so Frei occupies the settlement. This works well, because it will be at least 3 or 4 turns for his army to replenish their strength.
But after these decisions were made, we see the fruits of our labors:
The Aedui are no more! Now, we can plan our next move with more care, and-
...
Military issues:
Kadoken's army group was just mustered at Menossos, however it is just his unit at this time. Once he leaves the Menossos region, his recruitment options go down drastically. Retaba is out of position, and will take about two turns to begin scouting the enemy. The major decision at this time, is how we will utilize the Roughnecks.
Council -
A - Nerfthatman should cross the border to prosecute war on the Volcae, hoping the Vivisci will not see this as an affront
B - Nerfthatman should begin the long march to the East, and take the Southern road to Volcae. A second war is not something we can tolerate.
C - Nerfthatman got to his station through competence. Let him decide where the Roughnecks march.
1 - The military should continue to be responsible for their own spending.
2 - The military should be given a collective budget for recruitment.
3 - The military should recruit under Council mandate.
@Kadoken, @Frei, and @NerfThatMan: Please list how you would like to muster your armies over the next couple of turns.
Finances:
In Nemossos, the cattle pens are 1 turn away from completion, so any work can focus on either the city, which improves everything for about as much as Bibracte's city, or improve the Artisan's Lodging, which can bring in anywhere from 80-150 more gold, and either focus on more wealth, or more military options.
Council -
A - Focus on improving Bibracte, spending no more than X/focus on improving Y building
B - Focus on improving Nemossos, spending no more than X/focus on improving Y building
C - Save city improvements for a more stable time
Research:
Tribal Council (encourages tax bonuses, lower agent costs, unlocks buildings with that focus. Further progression lowers corruption in cities)
Tribal Economy (modest wealth bonuses from agricultural and cultural buildings, unlocks buildings with that focus. Further progression increases food)
Construction (Encourages growth, wealth from industrial buildings and capital bonuses. Further progression reduces construction costs)
Council and @Stilts -
A - Unlock the military trees
B - Focus on Construction
C - Focus on Tribal Council
D - Focus on Tribal Economy
Diplomacy:
Interestingly enough, we are pretty well liked for Gallic barbarians. The only faction that hates us are the Volcae, who just declared war on us. The Vivisci are on the frosty side of neutral, and the Carnutes to our North really don't care about us either way. Despite that, all responses for trade were either met with rejection, or requests for exorbitant payments, so no new agreements were reached.
Going from the military section, the quickest route to the Volcae are through the Vivisci. It is possible that, with a monetary gift, they will not respond to our intrusions with a declaration of war. This would enable us to focus on one enemy at a time, and give Frei time to lick his wounds.
Senate and @JusticeForPluto -
A - Offer a payment to the Vivisci to hopefully delay war with them, and quickly march on the Volcae
B - They are not worth the effort. What the gods bring, they bring.
So the battle probably could have been handled a bit better. Apologies for mangling your group, Frei. I'd be happy to send you game files for you to fight in the future, if you so desire.
Council and adviser recap(@Phyphor @enlightenedbum @firewaterword @Vic @Mr Ray):
Military: A - Nerfthatman should cross the border to prosecute war on the Volcae, hoping the Vivisci will not see this as an affront
B - Nerfthatman should begin the long march to the East, and take the Southern road to Volcae. A second war is not something we can tolerate.
C - Nerfthatman got to his station through competence. Let him decide where the Roughnecks march.
1 - The military should continue to be responsible for their own spending.
2 - The military should be given a collective budget for recruitment.
3 - The military should recruit under Council mandate.
Finances: A - Focus on improving Bibracte, spending no more than X/focus on improving Y building
B - Focus on improving Nemossos, spending no more than X/focus on improving Y building
C - Save city improvements for a more stable time
Research: A - Unlock the military trees
B - Focus on Construction
C - Focus on Tribal Council
D - Focus on Tribal Economy
Diplomacy: A - Offer a payment to the Vivisci to hopefully delay war with them, and quickly march on the Volcae
B - They are not worth the effort. What the gods bring, they bring.
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What's the time difference between Operation Hare and Operation Tortoise? Are we talking 2 turns, 3 turns, how long exactly? And have any enemy forces been spotted?
One thing that would help would be being able to see what we have recruit, and where.
As I loathe the Romans, I shall mock them with my army's name. I wish my band to be called Itae Occisae (Generation Kill in Latin)
Again, whenever the Council deems such expenditure allowable.