For all the unnecessary flak Activision Blizzard receives about moneygrabbing and so forth
"This feature hurts the game, so we're giving up income to remove it"
is worthy of some respect, imho
Nah.
"The AH hurts the game, so we are adding more features to compensate for it. Oh, and we're no longer charging you to use the AH."
That's worth respect.
Giving up a source of income in order to be lazy developers is not meritorious behavior.
Edit: I mean, if they can remove the system, then they obviously do not need income from the system, and so did not need to charge for it in the first place.
It's not lazy at all.
One of the most important things in design or writing or any creative endeavor is knowing when to cut something because it can't be salvaged. You gotta know when to kill your darlings.
Oh I just found my first legendary (had plenty of great rares it turns out)!
Scrimshaw
13-17 lightning damage
+20int
+29vit
+21 life per kill
+10% movement speed
My level 15 hardcore witch doctor shall be most pleased with this.
First legendary ever? Or on that character?
That character.
Then she died literally 10 minutes afterwards when I tried to go into that stupid fucking collapsing tomb event as I described earlier. Pretty unhappy day overall as my Demon Hunter got one shot by a savage beast at level 13. Didn't have a good day of diabloing whatsoever in other words.
The idea that it was just the loot that made the AH wrong in the game misses some of the more fundamental economics points. Reposting something I stuck elsewhere:
I don't think people are capturing some of the reasons the AH was bad - and those reasons are basic economics not game design. Whether the loot was designed to be shitty or not for the AH doesn't matter. Even if loot was better the AH would still have dominated the game, for two simple reasons.
I) a fundamental fact of economics is barriers to entry. The higher the barrier, the fewer people will enter the market. The old trade sites weren't a problem because only a really small % of the population used them - it took too much effort and risk for people to start buying gear outside of the game. By creating an in game AH that was so easy to use Blizzard basically lowered the entry barrier to 0, which pushed almost everyone into the market. What they saw as an advantage, and a solution to a problem, by making a risky unsafe process into something easy everyone could do, ended up as a disadvantage because it basically pushed everyone into it.
II) as a result of that, blizzard introduced a huge amount of liquidity into the market. In a game where loot is rolled randomly across a huge variety of numbers and stats, blizzard basically pushed every item generated onto the AH - and because everyone was using it, it devalued loot that otherwise would have been great. Under the old system of D2 items that were sub-par had value because the market was so much smaller (dupes aside). In D3 that wasn't the case - there were simply too many items being generated and flung onto the AH at no cost to the lister that it completely destroyed a lot of the value of loot. ARPGs always have items that are a bit better than what you have, that's part of the draw. But it changes the game when that item is sat in the in game AH right in front of you one click away.
Even if the loot had been good and not so shitty, the AH would have had a detrimental affect on the game because of the fundamentals it changes. As it happens, it combined with the crap loot and insanely stupid, WoW approach to Inferno difficulty that really poisoned a lot of people's opinions.
What I also don't understand are their protestations that they never saw it as an issue because their in game testing didn't use it. That's got to be a lie, and if it isn't someone's head should roll because these problems are really basic fundamentals that anyone who ever read a basic text book could outline. Their one of gamings largest companies with more money than 5 other studios combined, and yet they didn't have anyone on staff who could tell them what introducing a completely risk free, instantaneous auction house would do to a game like Diablo 3?
Have you never played WoW?
Blizzard is really good at what they do but they are also very good at randomly missing obvious issues. And the craziest thing is, it's actually quite random. There seems to be nothing systematic about it.
I feel like all concerns regarding the AH and how it's so unfair should read this, it's never too late.
So they have their ass covered from a legal standpoint with some boilerplate. Good for them.
That doesn't mean that they are immune to criticism or blowback if they don't provide any means to get out of blizzbucks now that one of the major uses of blizzbucks is being shut down. I don't personally have more blizzbucks stored up than I plan to use buying expansions, but I still think it is a shitty move if they refuse to offer any sort of fig leaf to the people who loaded up expecting to use the RMAH.
I mean, they are even offering people refunds within 30 days of this announcement with the latest TOS update, its not like they are unaware that a portion of the playerbase was going to be rather irate about getting rid of the AH.
Savant on
+1
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
yeah when they were saying that they didn't playtest with the AH in mind I thought "okay this has to be a lie, no way these guys could be so clueless"
Its possible, but like I said, it would be goosey. They tout this RMAH feature, so you could buy blizzbucks for use in the RMAH. When the remove the RMAH, they should allow you to cash out. While there are things in the store you can buy with your blizzbucks, you could argue people bought blizzbucks for the RMAH, and it would be unethical for them to not allow you to cash out if they take away the RMAH. Just my opinion.
you can still use your blizzbucks in the RMAH, they gave you half a year to figure out your shit
buy some mempos and go wild if you really want to cash out
I understand they gave you 6 months. I still suspect they'd give you a way out after those 6 months.
From the D3 AH Q&A:
Q. How will the removal of the gold and real-money auction houses work from a technical perspective (for example: What will happen to posted auctions, items or currency in the Completed tab, Battle.net Balance, etc.)?
We’re still working out all the details regarding how the auction houses will be shut down. We know these details are important, and we want to ensure that this transition goes as smoothly for everyone. We will be keeping everyone informed as we work through this process
While I'm not going to put it past people who are going to play ignorant to try to get their money back after the system drops
("I was playing D3 to make money, but somehow I missed this announcement and discussion for the past half a year!"),
I really don't see Blizzard just allowing people to cash out BlizzBucks to PayPal. Because here's why: That gives people license to ignore that entire choice for the next six months and just hoard BlizzBucks for the eventual payout. And who stands to gain the most from that? Because it's not going to be you, or _J_, or any other person who actually made a profit. It's going to be gold sellers who have thousands upon thousands of accounts with maxed out BlizzBucks.
You are saying, there's no possible way that there are people who've played D3 at some point, sold at least 1 item in the RMAH, to lose interest in the game and be inactive? Hell, I would've missed the AH removal news if not for the forums here. I did get the email from blizzard about the AH shutting down, but guess what, it was in my spam folder.
I didn't get an AH shutdown email yet at all... The last email I've gotten from Blizzard was from a week or two ago trying to get me to buy the console version of D3.
Its possible, but like I said, it would be goosey. They tout this RMAH feature, so you could buy blizzbucks for use in the RMAH. When the remove the RMAH, they should allow you to cash out. While there are things in the store you can buy with your blizzbucks, you could argue people bought blizzbucks for the RMAH, and it would be unethical for them to not allow you to cash out if they take away the RMAH. Just my opinion.
you can still use your blizzbucks in the RMAH, they gave you half a year to figure out your shit
buy some mempos and go wild if you really want to cash out
I understand they gave you 6 months. I still suspect they'd give you a way out after those 6 months.
From the D3 AH Q&A:
Q. How will the removal of the gold and real-money auction houses work from a technical perspective (for example: What will happen to posted auctions, items or currency in the Completed tab, Battle.net Balance, etc.)?
We’re still working out all the details regarding how the auction houses will be shut down. We know these details are important, and we want to ensure that this transition goes as smoothly for everyone. We will be keeping everyone informed as we work through this process
While I'm not going to put it past people who are going to play ignorant to try to get their money back after the system drops
("I was playing D3 to make money, but somehow I missed this announcement and discussion for the past half a year!"),
I really don't see Blizzard just allowing people to cash out BlizzBucks to PayPal. Because here's why: That gives people license to ignore that entire choice for the next six months and just hoard BlizzBucks for the eventual payout. And who stands to gain the most from that? Because it's not going to be you, or _J_, or any other person who actually made a profit. It's going to be gold sellers who have thousands upon thousands of accounts with maxed out BlizzBucks.
You are saying, there's no possible way that there are people who've played D3 at some point, sold at least 1 item in the RMAH, to lose interest in the game and be inactive? Hell, I would've missed the AH removal news if not for the forums here. I did get the email from blizzard about the AH shutting down, but guess what, it was in my spam folder.
I didn't get an AH shutdown email yet at all... The last email I've gotten from Blizzard was from a week or two ago trying to get me to buy the console version of D3.
Mine was dated 9/17, 4:38pm, in my junk folder. We all know how hit and miss their email system is when we sold stuff on the RMAH.
I feel like all concerns regarding the AH and how it's so unfair should read this, it's never too late.
So they have their ass covered from a legal standpoint with some boilerplate. Good for them.
That doesn't mean that they are immune to criticism or blowback if they don't provide any means to get out of blizzbucks now that one of the major uses of blizzbucks is being shut down. I don't personally have more blizzbucks stored up than I plan to use buying expansions, but I still think it is a shitty move if they refuse to offer any sort of fig leaf to the people who loaded up expecting to use the RMAH.
I mean, they are even offering people refunds within 30 days of this announcement with the latest TOS update, its not like they are unaware that a portion of the playerbase was going to be rather irate about getting rid of the AH.
What are we supposed to be looking for here? All I see here is a Terms of Use for the RMAH. There was an update yesterday to the TOU mentioning the pending closure of the RMAH. What does it have to do with the actual closure of the RMAH?
0
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Its possible, but like I said, it would be goosey. They tout this RMAH feature, so you could buy blizzbucks for use in the RMAH. When the remove the RMAH, they should allow you to cash out. While there are things in the store you can buy with your blizzbucks, you could argue people bought blizzbucks for the RMAH, and it would be unethical for them to not allow you to cash out if they take away the RMAH. Just my opinion.
you can still use your blizzbucks in the RMAH, they gave you half a year to figure out your shit
buy some mempos and go wild if you really want to cash out
I understand they gave you 6 months. I still suspect they'd give you a way out after those 6 months.
From the D3 AH Q&A:
Q. How will the removal of the gold and real-money auction houses work from a technical perspective (for example: What will happen to posted auctions, items or currency in the Completed tab, Battle.net Balance, etc.)?
We’re still working out all the details regarding how the auction houses will be shut down. We know these details are important, and we want to ensure that this transition goes as smoothly for everyone. We will be keeping everyone informed as we work through this process
While I'm not going to put it past people who are going to play ignorant to try to get their money back after the system drops
("I was playing D3 to make money, but somehow I missed this announcement and discussion for the past half a year!"),
I really don't see Blizzard just allowing people to cash out BlizzBucks to PayPal. Because here's why: That gives people license to ignore that entire choice for the next six months and just hoard BlizzBucks for the eventual payout. And who stands to gain the most from that? Because it's not going to be you, or _J_, or any other person who actually made a profit. It's going to be gold sellers who have thousands upon thousands of accounts with maxed out BlizzBucks.
You are saying, there's no possible way that there are people who've played D3 at some point, sold at least 1 item in the RMAH, to lose interest in the game and be inactive? Hell, I would've missed the AH removal news if not for the forums here. I did get the email from blizzard about the AH shutting down, but guess what, it was in my spam folder.
Blizzard is not going to do this not because of some TOS, but because legally they could be treated as a global bank if they start holding transferable cash for people.
There might be some exception to this where Bliz could allow a one time cash out, but I don't know. Seems doubtful.
I feel like all concerns regarding the AH and how it's so unfair should read this, it's never too late.
So they have their ass covered from a legal standpoint with some boilerplate. Good for them.
That doesn't mean that they are immune to criticism or blowback if they don't provide any means to get out of blizzbucks now that one of the major uses of blizzbucks is being shut down. I don't personally have more blizzbucks stored up than I plan to use buying expansions, but I still think it is a shitty move if they refuse to offer any sort of fig leaf to the people who loaded up expecting to use the RMAH.
I mean, they are even offering people refunds within 30 days of this announcement with the latest TOS update, its not like they are unaware that a portion of the playerbase was going to be rather irate about getting rid of the AH.
Yeah, if I'd known about this I'd have used my balance to buy HOTS. But I didn't, because I intended to keep using the RMAH.
And a six month notice that coincides with a major market disruption ain't really worth much.
As I stands I may be able to burn up my balance on expansions, maybe. But I'd much rather have an option to eat the 15% and cash out. And while their TOS may cover them, that doesn't make it less shitty. They've been selling "RMAH gift cards" in stores, for fuck's sake.
It means I can't sue then, but I can still be pissed off and say "fuck Blizzard."
Its possible, but like I said, it would be goosey. They tout this RMAH feature, so you could buy blizzbucks for use in the RMAH. When the remove the RMAH, they should allow you to cash out. While there are things in the store you can buy with your blizzbucks, you could argue people bought blizzbucks for the RMAH, and it would be unethical for them to not allow you to cash out if they take away the RMAH. Just my opinion.
you can still use your blizzbucks in the RMAH, they gave you half a year to figure out your shit
buy some mempos and go wild if you really want to cash out
I understand they gave you 6 months. I still suspect they'd give you a way out after those 6 months.
From the D3 AH Q&A:
Q. How will the removal of the gold and real-money auction houses work from a technical perspective (for example: What will happen to posted auctions, items or currency in the Completed tab, Battle.net Balance, etc.)?
We’re still working out all the details regarding how the auction houses will be shut down. We know these details are important, and we want to ensure that this transition goes as smoothly for everyone. We will be keeping everyone informed as we work through this process
While I'm not going to put it past people who are going to play ignorant to try to get their money back after the system drops
("I was playing D3 to make money, but somehow I missed this announcement and discussion for the past half a year!"),
I really don't see Blizzard just allowing people to cash out BlizzBucks to PayPal. Because here's why: That gives people license to ignore that entire choice for the next six months and just hoard BlizzBucks for the eventual payout. And who stands to gain the most from that? Because it's not going to be you, or _J_, or any other person who actually made a profit. It's going to be gold sellers who have thousands upon thousands of accounts with maxed out BlizzBucks.
You are saying, there's no possible way that there are people who've played D3 at some point, sold at least 1 item in the RMAH, to lose interest in the game and be inactive? Hell, I would've missed the AH removal news if not for the forums here. I did get the email from blizzard about the AH shutting down, but guess what, it was in my spam folder.
Blizzard is not going to do this not because of some TOS, but because legally they could be treated as a global bank if they start holding transferable cash for people.
There might be some exception to this where Bliz could allow a one time cash out, but I don't know. Seems doubtful.
Edit: words
Exactly. That's why the RMAH works so funny sometimes. They can't structure it to look anything like a bank or they will have every government in the western world putting it's hands up their ass.
0
Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
They could also remove the 15% blizz cut on gold sales, to let people "cash out," to avoid the "global bank" issue. Then you just lose the 15% for paypals cut.
Of course, that depends on finding buyers and sellers. Which, now...
To be clear, you think it's silly to swear at a company for simultaneously:
A) removing a major advertised feature of a game and shuttering a primary portion of a store for which they'd been pushing stored value cards
I get it. You fucking love some blizzard products, so this doesn't affect you. But imagine for a moment a human existing who doesn't want to play hearthstone, or wow, maybe even SC2. They had BlizzBucks for the RMAH, the BlizzBucks that blizzard sold in stores in diablo-themed cards.
Yeah, that guy is not silly to be pissed.
0
darklite_xI'm not an r-tard...Registered Userregular
You also said you hate the Simpsons. All I'm getting at here is that we can no longer hold your opinion on a high pedestal. In other words...what happened to you man? You used to be cool.
Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
They could also remove the 15% blizz cut on gold sales, to let people "cash out," to avoid the "global bank" issue. Then you just lose the 15% for paypals cut.
Of course, that depends on finding buyers and sellers. Which, now...
Nope, doesn't work like that.
If you take people's money, credit it on your own end and then give them money back for that credit, you are acting as a financial institution. Doesn't matter if you charge a fee or not.
You also said you hate the Simpsons. All I'm getting at here is that we can no longer hold your opinion on a high pedestal. In other words...what happened to you man? You used to be cool.
The Simpsons kinda suck.
But yeah, thinking people are silly to be pissed it pretty fucking stupid.
They could also remove the 15% blizz cut on gold sales, to let people "cash out," to avoid the "global bank" issue. Then you just lose the 15% for paypals cut.
Of course, that depends on finding buyers and sellers. Which, now...
Nope, doesn't work like that.
If you take people's money, credit it on your own end and then give them money back for that credit, you are acting as a financial institution. Doesn't matter if you charge a fee or not.
I imagine if it was treated as a one time "refund" of store credit, rather than an ongoing enterprise, they could get away with it.
You also said you hate the Simpsons. All I'm getting at here is that we can no longer hold your opinion on a high pedestal. In other words...what happened to you man? You used to be cool.
The Simpsons kinda suck.
But yeah, thinking people are silly to be pissed it pretty fucking stupid.
The Simpsons suck NOW.
Back when the episode that clip is from was made, they were golden.
I feel like all concerns regarding the AH and how it's so unfair should read this, it's never too late.
The AH is not unfair.
It ruins the core concept of Diablo.
Self found gear takes too long for most people (even D2 fans) to even think of getting. The whole point of the game is TO FIND GEAR, not shop the aisles of Diab-Low-Mart for upgrades.
The AH not only ruined the experience of self-found gear, it made the entire concept of crafting weapons and armor absolutely useless. It made the feeling of plowing through packs of bad guys because of that one kickass piece of gear hollow, since you only got the gear by searching a database and not playing your ass off.
It was a shortcut, a handicap to the experience, and it changed nothing. The truly high-end gear still went to third party sites, since the RMAH was capped at $250.
As much as I enjoy the fighting mechanics of the game (oh, and I do), the rest of the Diablo experience in this game is absolutely the worst out of the three entries. The story was bunk, the loot is pathetic, the character leveling system is unsatisfying, and the endgame is non-existent. Three out of four of these things will likely be fixed or mostly fixed with the upcoming updates.
There just isn't room for an AH if the loot drops are good enough to keep your character crushing through the depths.
I'll say it again: Auction House Tycoon is dead. Long live Diablo.
+13
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
To be clear, you think it's silly to swear at a company for simultaneously:
A) removing a major advertised feature of a game and shuttering a primary portion of a store for which they'd been pushing stored value cards
I get it. You fucking love some blizzard products, so this doesn't affect you. But imagine for a moment a human existing who doesn't want to play hearthstone, or wow, maybe even SC2. They had BlizzBucks for the RMAH, the BlizzBucks that blizzard sold in stores in diablo-themed cards.
Yeah, that guy is not silly to be pissed.
that guy has 6 months to cash out? and should've known once he spent his money on fake money he lost all control of what happens to it?
my stance is that it's silly that you feel your blizzbucks are more important than the overall health of the game. it's like yeah it would suck if you just bought a RMAH gift card from GameStop yesterday, but we both know that didnt happen, you made your blizzbucks playing the auction house and you can use the auction house to cash out
You also said you hate the Simpsons. All I'm getting at here is that we can no longer hold your opinion on a high pedestal. In other words...what happened to you man? You used to be cool.
In short, I think this is Blizzard's view (If BRT and company are correct):
Game with no market > Game with market and AH > Game with market but no AH
Nobody even considered removing the market from the game because it was so deeply entrenched into D2.
I think Blizzard is fine with a limited market and in that sense the World of WarCraft auction house was able to thrive without diluting the core experience. The difference being that the WoW auction house is primarily for enchants/buff items and vanity items and is absolutely non-viable as a source for main pieces of gear.
This can never truly be the case in Diablo because drops are not tied to specific, tiered bosses, and even with BOA legendaries you could still just deck your character out in exceptionally well rolled rares with no trading restriction because the Auction House's mere existence makes that process convenient and available to every player in a no-risk environment.
I think they will keep trading in Diablo, but only to the extent of being able to trade common items such as well-rolled rares or supplemental items such as gems. By removing the Auction House they limit the trade of these items to people who really, really want to do it, and by imposing trade restrictions on exceptional (or augmented) gear the best way to gear out will be to play the game anyways. You kind of get the best of both worlds this way - a legitimate trade economy, but one that is limited in such a way as to not provide an automatic short circuit to the item hunt.
To be clear, you think it's silly to swear at a company for simultaneously:
A) removing a major advertised feature of a game and shuttering a primary portion of a store for which they'd been pushing stored value cards
I get it. You fucking love some blizzard products, so this doesn't affect you. But imagine for a moment a human existing who doesn't want to play hearthstone, or wow, maybe even SC2. They had BlizzBucks for the RMAH, the BlizzBucks that blizzard sold in stores in diablo-themed cards.
Yeah, that guy is not silly to be pissed.
that guy has 6 months to cash out? and should've known once he spent his money on fake money he lost all control of what happens to it?
my stance is that it's silly that you feel your blizzbucks are more important than the overall health of the game. it's like yeah it would suck if you just bought a RMAH gift card from GameStop yesterday, but we both know that didnt happen, you made your blizzbucks playing the auction house and you can use the auction house to cash out
He still has every right to be pissed.
I get it, you don't care, or you care more about the health of the diablers. But maybe he doesn't. That's between him and blizzard.
So yeah. Fuck blizzard. Hope this improves the game, but there is a price, and some people won't be happy paying it. Including, frankly, me.
You can't hand wave the ill will that a decision like this involving "real money" (ToS be damned) generates among people who are not you. Shit, I -just- sold $30 worth of shit a couple weeks ago, of course I'd have chosen PayPal if I'd known. Gold? Won't need it, no gold auction house. BlizzBucks? Same. Keep the gear? Won't need it once the expansion drops.
But now it's Bank Error in Blizzards Favor, I suppose.
I feel like all concerns regarding the AH and how it's so unfair should read this, it's never too late.
The AH is not unfair.
It ruins the core concept of Diablo.
Self found gear takes too long for most people (even D2 fans) to even think of getting. The whole point of the game is TO FIND GEAR, not shop the aisles of Diab-Low-Mart for upgrades.
The AH not only ruined the experience of self-found gear, it made the entire concept of crafting weapons and armor absolutely useless. It made the feeling of plowing through packs of bad guys because of that one kickass piece of gear hollow, since you only got the gear by searching a database and not playing your ass off.
It was a shortcut, a handicap to the experience, and it changed nothing. The truly high-end gear still went to third party sites, since the RMAH was capped at $250.
As much as I enjoy the fighting mechanics of the game (oh, and I do), the rest of the Diablo experience in this game is absolutely the worst out of the three entries. The story was bunk, the loot is pathetic, the character leveling system is unsatisfying, and the endgame is non-existent. Three out of four of these things will likely be fixed or mostly fixed with the upcoming updates.
There just isn't room for an AH if the loot drops are good enough to keep your character crushing through the depths.
I'll say it again: Auction House Tycoon is dead. Long live Diablo.
That was my point, I dunno if you're disagreeing with me or what, but I agree with you. Therefore I have "Bro?"'d you.
To be clear, you think it's silly to swear at a company for simultaneously:
A) removing a major advertised feature of a game and shuttering a primary portion of a store for which they'd been pushing stored value cards
I get it. You fucking love some blizzard products, so this doesn't affect you. But imagine for a moment a human existing who doesn't want to play hearthstone, or wow, maybe even SC2. They had BlizzBucks for the RMAH, the BlizzBucks that blizzard sold in stores in diablo-themed cards.
Yeah, that guy is not silly to be pissed.
that guy has 6 months to cash out? and should've known once he spent his money on fake money he lost all control of what happens to it?
my stance is that it's silly that you feel your blizzbucks are more important than the overall health of the game. it's like yeah it would suck if you just bought a RMAH gift card from GameStop yesterday, but we both know that didnt happen, you made your blizzbucks playing the auction house and you can use the auction house to cash out
He still has every right to be pissed.
I get it, you don't care, or you care more about the health of the diablers. But maybe he doesn't. That's between him and blizzard.
So yeah. Fuck blizzard. Hope this improves the game, but there is a price, and some people won't be happy paying it. Including, frankly, me.
You can't hand wave the ill will that a decision like this involving "real money" (ToS be damned) generates among people who are not you. Shit, I -just- sold $30 worth of shit a couple weeks ago, of course I'd have chosen PayPal if I'd known. Gold? Won't need it, no gold auction house. BlizzBucks? Same. Keep the gear? Won't need it once the expansion drops.
But now it's Bank Error in Blizzards Favor, I suppose.
If you guys would stop tunnel-visioning "me, me, me" and start thinking bigger picture you'd probably not be arguing this right now. You just said it, the only reason you're pissed is because you aren't going to do what you just did a couple weeks ago anymore. You don't care if the system is unsustainable, if it drives the economy into the gutter, if it makes the game itself worse, you only care about making money for yourself, gameplay be damned.
This is the reason why smart people avoided chasing Paragon 100, because that system too was fundamentally flawed. To think that it wouldn't change in the future into something easily reproducible by someone much less hardcore than yourself with a smaller time investment is delusional.
Edit: My condolences if you lost potential money 6 months in the future from this, or feel like the real money you sunk into a game isn't worth it anymore. This game should have never been about that, and if you were playing it to make money, you were playing it for the wrong reasons.
Everyone needs to calm down. We can discuss and argue about what is good or bad, but calm down. The main thing I see people are worried about is what happens to their blizzbucks. They are thinking of what to do with RMAH balance, so don't jump to conclusions one way or another.
0
Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
To be clear, you think it's silly to swear at a company for simultaneously:
A) removing a major advertised feature of a game and shuttering a primary portion of a store for which they'd been pushing stored value cards
I get it. You fucking love some blizzard products, so this doesn't affect you. But imagine for a moment a human existing who doesn't want to play hearthstone, or wow, maybe even SC2. They had BlizzBucks for the RMAH, the BlizzBucks that blizzard sold in stores in diablo-themed cards.
Yeah, that guy is not silly to be pissed.
that guy has 6 months to cash out? and should've known once he spent his money on fake money he lost all control of what happens to it?
my stance is that it's silly that you feel your blizzbucks are more important than the overall health of the game. it's like yeah it would suck if you just bought a RMAH gift card from GameStop yesterday, but we both know that didnt happen, you made your blizzbucks playing the auction house and you can use the auction house to cash out
He still has every right to be pissed.
I get it, you don't care, or you care more about the health of the diablers. But maybe he doesn't. That's between him and blizzard.
So yeah. Fuck blizzard. Hope this improves the game, but there is a price, and some people won't be happy paying it. Including, frankly, me.
You can't hand wave the ill will that a decision like this involving "real money" (ToS be damned) generates among people who are not you. Shit, I -just- sold $30 worth of shit a couple weeks ago, of course I'd have chosen PayPal if I'd known. Gold? Won't need it, no gold auction house. BlizzBucks? Same. Keep the gear? Won't need it once the expansion drops.
But now it's Bank Error in Blizzards Favor, I suppose.
the only time I could see getting pissed is if you directly added blizzbucks or bought one of those cards very close to re announcement
I don't think anyone has actually done that though
Time is money, and farming takes time. Even if you only sold items for blizzbucks, it is obvious why people would like to cash out.
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"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
I feel like all concerns regarding the AH and how it's so unfair should read this, it's never too late.
So they have their ass covered from a legal standpoint with some boilerplate. Good for them.
That doesn't mean that they are immune to criticism or blowback if they don't provide any means to get out of blizzbucks now that one of the major uses of blizzbucks is being shut down. I don't personally have more blizzbucks stored up than I plan to use buying expansions, but I still think it is a shitty move if they refuse to offer any sort of fig leaf to the people who loaded up expecting to use the RMAH.
I mean, they are even offering people refunds within 30 days of this announcement with the latest TOS update, its not like they are unaware that a portion of the playerbase was going to be rather irate about getting rid of the AH.
Yeah, if I'd known about this I'd have used my balance to buy HOTS. But I didn't, because I intended to keep using the RMAH.
And a six month notice that coincides with a major market disruption ain't really worth much.
As I stands I may be able to burn up my balance on expansions, maybe. But I'd much rather have an option to eat the 15% and cash out. And while their TOS may cover them, that doesn't make it less shitty. They've been selling "RMAH gift cards" in stores, for fuck's sake.
It means I can't sue then, but I can still be pissed off and say "fuck Blizzard."
If you had no intention of ever spending your auction house proceeds on anything other than the auction house, then why bother dealing with Blizzbucks at all rather than selling for gold instead?
You could have cashed out for real money at 85% (I think) efficiency when you sold the items and chose not to. You could have cashed out for HotS at 100% efficiency and chose not to. You chose to commit to a spending pattern such that even if the auction house remained open for a decade it you still would have never seen a monetary return on your Blizzbucks, so why are you suddenly expecting to get money for them now? You can still convert them into in-game currency by buying items and reselling them for gold if you want (assuming the gold market doesn't crash from other people doing this).
It IS pretty creepy if Blizzard was explicitly selling RMAH cards; I had never heard of those.
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Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
I feel like all concerns regarding the AH and how it's so unfair should read this, it's never too late.
So they have their ass covered from a legal standpoint with some boilerplate. Good for them.
That doesn't mean that they are immune to criticism or blowback if they don't provide any means to get out of blizzbucks now that one of the major uses of blizzbucks is being shut down. I don't personally have more blizzbucks stored up than I plan to use buying expansions, but I still think it is a shitty move if they refuse to offer any sort of fig leaf to the people who loaded up expecting to use the RMAH.
I mean, they are even offering people refunds within 30 days of this announcement with the latest TOS update, its not like they are unaware that a portion of the playerbase was going to be rather irate about getting rid of the AH.
Yeah, if I'd known about this I'd have used my balance to buy HOTS. But I didn't, because I intended to keep using the RMAH.
And a six month notice that coincides with a major market disruption ain't really worth much.
As I stands I may be able to burn up my balance on expansions, maybe. But I'd much rather have an option to eat the 15% and cash out. And while their TOS may cover them, that doesn't make it less shitty. They've been selling "RMAH gift cards" in stores, for fuck's sake.
It means I can't sue then, but I can still be pissed off and say "fuck Blizzard."
If you had no intention of ever spending your auction house proceeds on anything other than the auction house, then why bother dealing with Blizzbucks at all rather than selling for gold instead?
You could have cashed out for real money at 85% (I think) efficiency when you sold the items and chose not to. You could have cashed out for HotS at 100% efficiency and chose not to. You chose to commit to a spending pattern such that even if the auction house remained open for a decade it you still would have never seen a monetary return on your Blizzbucks, so why are you suddenly expecting to get money for them now? You can still convert them into in-game currency by buying items and reselling them for gold if you want (assuming the gold market doesn't crash from other people doing this).
It IS pretty creepy if Blizzard was explicitly selling RMAH cards; I had never heard of those.
They were, they were sold in the Best Buy I used to work at. But I've always seen those as just a middle man for putting your credit card in at your account page.
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It's not lazy at all.
One of the most important things in design or writing or any creative endeavor is knowing when to cut something because it can't be salvaged. You gotta know when to kill your darlings.
I feel like all concerns regarding the AH and how it's so unfair should read this, it's never too late.
That character.
Then she died literally 10 minutes afterwards when I tried to go into that stupid fucking collapsing tomb event as I described earlier. Pretty unhappy day overall as my Demon Hunter got one shot by a savage beast at level 13. Didn't have a good day of diabloing whatsoever in other words.
Have you never played WoW?
Blizzard is really good at what they do but they are also very good at randomly missing obvious issues. And the craziest thing is, it's actually quite random. There seems to be nothing systematic about it.
So they have their ass covered from a legal standpoint with some boilerplate. Good for them.
That doesn't mean that they are immune to criticism or blowback if they don't provide any means to get out of blizzbucks now that one of the major uses of blizzbucks is being shut down. I don't personally have more blizzbucks stored up than I plan to use buying expansions, but I still think it is a shitty move if they refuse to offer any sort of fig leaf to the people who loaded up expecting to use the RMAH.
I mean, they are even offering people refunds within 30 days of this announcement with the latest TOS update, its not like they are unaware that a portion of the playerbase was going to be rather irate about getting rid of the AH.
but I guess they were
I didn't get an AH shutdown email yet at all... The last email I've gotten from Blizzard was from a week or two ago trying to get me to buy the console version of D3.
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
Mine was dated 9/17, 4:38pm, in my junk folder. We all know how hit and miss their email system is when we sold stuff on the RMAH.
What are we supposed to be looking for here? All I see here is a Terms of Use for the RMAH. There was an update yesterday to the TOU mentioning the pending closure of the RMAH. What does it have to do with the actual closure of the RMAH?
Blizzard is not going to do this not because of some TOS, but because legally they could be treated as a global bank if they start holding transferable cash for people.
There might be some exception to this where Bliz could allow a one time cash out, but I don't know. Seems doubtful.
Edit: words
PSN: Threeve703
Yeah, if I'd known about this I'd have used my balance to buy HOTS. But I didn't, because I intended to keep using the RMAH.
And a six month notice that coincides with a major market disruption ain't really worth much.
As I stands I may be able to burn up my balance on expansions, maybe. But I'd much rather have an option to eat the 15% and cash out. And while their TOS may cover them, that doesn't make it less shitty. They've been selling "RMAH gift cards" in stores, for fuck's sake.
It means I can't sue then, but I can still be pissed off and say "fuck Blizzard."
Exactly. That's why the RMAH works so funny sometimes. They can't structure it to look anything like a bank or they will have every government in the western world putting it's hands up their ass.
so here we are
Of course, that depends on finding buyers and sellers. Which, now...
To be clear, you think it's silly to swear at a company for simultaneously:
A) removing a major advertised feature of a game and
I get it. You fucking love some blizzard products, so this doesn't affect you. But imagine for a moment a human existing who doesn't want to play hearthstone, or wow, maybe even SC2. They had BlizzBucks for the RMAH, the BlizzBucks that blizzard sold in stores in diablo-themed cards.
Yeah, that guy is not silly to be pissed.
You also said you hate the Simpsons. All I'm getting at here is that we can no longer hold your opinion on a high pedestal. In other words...what happened to you man? You used to be cool.
Nope, doesn't work like that.
If you take people's money, credit it on your own end and then give them money back for that credit, you are acting as a financial institution. Doesn't matter if you charge a fee or not.
The Simpsons kinda suck.
But yeah, thinking people are silly to be pissed it pretty fucking stupid.
I imagine if it was treated as a one time "refund" of store credit, rather than an ongoing enterprise, they could get away with it.
Unlike, say, bitcoin.
The Simpsons suck NOW.
Back when the episode that clip is from was made, they were golden.
The AH is not unfair.
It ruins the core concept of Diablo.
Self found gear takes too long for most people (even D2 fans) to even think of getting. The whole point of the game is TO FIND GEAR, not shop the aisles of Diab-Low-Mart for upgrades.
The AH not only ruined the experience of self-found gear, it made the entire concept of crafting weapons and armor absolutely useless. It made the feeling of plowing through packs of bad guys because of that one kickass piece of gear hollow, since you only got the gear by searching a database and not playing your ass off.
It was a shortcut, a handicap to the experience, and it changed nothing. The truly high-end gear still went to third party sites, since the RMAH was capped at $250.
As much as I enjoy the fighting mechanics of the game (oh, and I do), the rest of the Diablo experience in this game is absolutely the worst out of the three entries. The story was bunk, the loot is pathetic, the character leveling system is unsatisfying, and the endgame is non-existent. Three out of four of these things will likely be fixed or mostly fixed with the upcoming updates.
There just isn't room for an AH if the loot drops are good enough to keep your character crushing through the depths.
I'll say it again: Auction House Tycoon is dead. Long live Diablo.
just wait until the "found a great item but now I can't auction house it - therefore blizzard robbed me" posts
my stance is that it's silly that you feel your blizzbucks are more important than the overall health of the game. it's like yeah it would suck if you just bought a RMAH gift card from GameStop yesterday, but we both know that didnt happen, you made your blizzbucks playing the auction house and you can use the auction house to cash out
i think you misjudge peoples' ability to hold a grudge. we'll be hearing about it FOREVER
I think Blizzard is fine with a limited market and in that sense the World of WarCraft auction house was able to thrive without diluting the core experience. The difference being that the WoW auction house is primarily for enchants/buff items and vanity items and is absolutely non-viable as a source for main pieces of gear.
This can never truly be the case in Diablo because drops are not tied to specific, tiered bosses, and even with BOA legendaries you could still just deck your character out in exceptionally well rolled rares with no trading restriction because the Auction House's mere existence makes that process convenient and available to every player in a no-risk environment.
I think they will keep trading in Diablo, but only to the extent of being able to trade common items such as well-rolled rares or supplemental items such as gems. By removing the Auction House they limit the trade of these items to people who really, really want to do it, and by imposing trade restrictions on exceptional (or augmented) gear the best way to gear out will be to play the game anyways. You kind of get the best of both worlds this way - a legitimate trade economy, but one that is limited in such a way as to not provide an automatic short circuit to the item hunt.
He still has every right to be pissed.
I get it, you don't care, or you care more about the health of the diablers. But maybe he doesn't. That's between him and blizzard.
So yeah. Fuck blizzard. Hope this improves the game, but there is a price, and some people won't be happy paying it. Including, frankly, me.
You can't hand wave the ill will that a decision like this involving "real money" (ToS be damned) generates among people who are not you. Shit, I -just- sold $30 worth of shit a couple weeks ago, of course I'd have chosen PayPal if I'd known. Gold? Won't need it, no gold auction house. BlizzBucks? Same. Keep the gear? Won't need it once the expansion drops.
But now it's Bank Error in Blizzards Favor, I suppose.
That was my point, I dunno if you're disagreeing with me or what, but I agree with you. Therefore I have "Bro?"'d you.
If you guys would stop tunnel-visioning "me, me, me" and start thinking bigger picture you'd probably not be arguing this right now. You just said it, the only reason you're pissed is because you aren't going to do what you just did a couple weeks ago anymore. You don't care if the system is unsustainable, if it drives the economy into the gutter, if it makes the game itself worse, you only care about making money for yourself, gameplay be damned.
This is the reason why smart people avoided chasing Paragon 100, because that system too was fundamentally flawed. To think that it wouldn't change in the future into something easily reproducible by someone much less hardcore than yourself with a smaller time investment is delusional.
Edit: My condolences if you lost potential money 6 months in the future from this, or feel like the real money you sunk into a game isn't worth it anymore. This game should have never been about that, and if you were playing it to make money, you were playing it for the wrong reasons.
I guess I just don't see it as that big a deal?
so you lost 1$ from the blizzbucks tax
I dunno, man, it's just a dollar
Dude, don't let the negative energy of this capitalist machine get you down maaaaan.
We're all Diabros here!
I don't think anyone has actually done that though
Time is money, and farming takes time. Even if you only sold items for blizzbucks, it is obvious why people would like to cash out.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
If you had no intention of ever spending your auction house proceeds on anything other than the auction house, then why bother dealing with Blizzbucks at all rather than selling for gold instead?
You could have cashed out for real money at 85% (I think) efficiency when you sold the items and chose not to. You could have cashed out for HotS at 100% efficiency and chose not to. You chose to commit to a spending pattern such that even if the auction house remained open for a decade it you still would have never seen a monetary return on your Blizzbucks, so why are you suddenly expecting to get money for them now? You can still convert them into in-game currency by buying items and reselling them for gold if you want (assuming the gold market doesn't crash from other people doing this).
It IS pretty creepy if Blizzard was explicitly selling RMAH cards; I had never heard of those.
also no one has gotten blizzbucks from farming
They were, they were sold in the Best Buy I used to work at. But I've always seen those as just a middle man for putting your credit card in at your account page.