In three attacks, Vayne deals 8% of your health, plus her attack damage. In three attacks, Kog'maw deals 18% of your health in magic damage from farther away, plus his attack damage. You need to have over 50% MR (and he needs no MPen) before Kog'maw isn't outdamaging Vayne. Yet no one complains about Kog'maw for some reason.
Not quite, you're forgetting the base damage which is between 3-6% of a champions HP
Does Sivir dumpster Vayne?
Seems like that would be a thing, but I've never seen it.
If vayne is bad. Otherwise vayne has all the tools to make Sivir pay and none of the things which sivir likes to defend against. Basically, dodge sivir's q with your tumble win fight.
There isn't really "counterplay" to silverbolts in the traditional sense besides AS slows. Its ok. The counterplay to silverbolts is winning the game early.
Just like the counterplay to Yi is hard CC
But the former isn't the same as the latter. "win the game early" requires a specific 5 person strategy which is well executed to counter a single non-ultimate ability on a single champion, and that's not okay. Compare to Malz ult, which you can mitigate with a QSS. Silverbolts is one of very few abilities in LOL with effectively no substantial counter, because you always have QSS and cleanse for CC, MR and armor for non-true damage, health for non-% true damage, etc, etc.
If silver bolts was the silver lining to a shitty kit, that might be one thing, but as Rami notes, her overall kit is pretty solid with multiple repositions, multiple escapes, a (situational) hard CC, etc. Compare this to quickdraw, which if used as a steroid, cannot be used as an escape. And also, it doesn't add true damage, so armor mitigates its benefit.
So you're saying the counterplay is don't get shot by vayne, kill vayne, or two items can get around with her aa reset. The first two work for everything in the game, and are ultimately not feasible given equal skill. There are easier ways to make a late game carry than to put in a mechanic lacking counterplay.
Bork is strong but it has counterplay.
Vayne's steroid is Silver Bolts. Where other carries have an increased attack speed boosting their damage, or absurd synergy with Trinity Force, or ridiculously safe range, Vayne is instead rewarded for being able to stick to a target. This is pretty important because Vayne has a short/average attack range of 550.
In three attacks, Vayne deals 8% of your health, plus her attack damage. In three attacks, Kog'maw deals 18% of your health in magic damage from farther away, plus his attack damage. You need to have over 50% MR (and he needs no MPen) before Kog'maw isn't outdamaging Vayne. Yet no one complains about Kog'maw for some reason.
Well, for a pretty specific reason: because they obsess over the idea of counterplay through itemization. So yeah, the counterplay is kill Vayne. Because she's a fucking squishy carry with 550 range. You say "assuming equal skill, Vayne kills you" which is a frankly ridiculous thing to say and is completely untrue, given the fact that professional play isn't a race to who can lock in Vayne first.
There's this obsession over the idea of % true damage as though it's Satan himself, as though counterplay CAN ONLY HAPPEN while you're sitting back at base browsing through items. What's the counterplay to a skillshot - buying a bunch of MR so when it hits you in the face you don't die? Whoops no one says that.
Well, there's counterplay through champ select, which is kinda shitty for a variety of reasons, and counterplay through in-game play, which is the best type in theory, but in practice, "Dont get auto attacked by Vayne" is rather complicated by the fact that she has multiple chase abilities and some champ roles, like tanks and bruisers, are going to get auto attacked a lot regardless of skill level.
You can bring up skillshots, but that just makes your point weaker, because silver bolts is not a skill shot, has no resource cost, has no opportunity cost (well, a minor one pre-18, but super minor).
I don't really think there is any issue. Vaynes advantage as an ADC is that she can shred tanks. Could just give her innate armor pen or something. Instead we she does true damage with relatively low base damage but high %HP scaling so that it also does not ruin non-tanks as well.
In three attacks, Vayne deals 8% of your health, plus her attack damage. In three attacks, Kog'maw deals 18% of your health in magic damage from farther away, plus his attack damage. You need to have over 50% MR (and he needs no MPen) before Kog'maw isn't outdamaging Vayne. Yet no one complains about Kog'maw for some reason.
Not quite, you're forgetting the base damage which is between 3-6% of a champions HP
50 MR is a very low MR number by mid game
50% reduction is 100 armor/MR (ignoring shreds and pens)
Does Sivir dumpster Vayne?
Seems like that would be a thing, but I've never seen it.
If vayne is bad. Otherwise vayne has all the tools to make Sivir pay and none of the things which sivir likes to defend against. Basically, dodge sivir's q with your tumble win fight.
Makes sense. I was just thinking spellshield condemn -> punish.
Sort of related to the Vayne discussion, but I'm beginning to wonder if a lot of the marksmen aren't too strong in the early game. Certainly I've been seeing a lot of double AD carry comps (be that Quinn/Vayne top, Ez mid, or whatever); they tend to have few issues in lane phase and then scale incredibly well into the mid and late game.
Posts
Seems like that would be a thing, but I've never seen it.
Not quite, you're forgetting the base damage which is between 3-6% of a champions HP
50 MR is a very low MR number by mid game
If vayne is bad. Otherwise vayne has all the tools to make Sivir pay and none of the things which sivir likes to defend against. Basically, dodge sivir's q with your tumble win fight.
But the former isn't the same as the latter. "win the game early" requires a specific 5 person strategy which is well executed to counter a single non-ultimate ability on a single champion, and that's not okay. Compare to Malz ult, which you can mitigate with a QSS. Silverbolts is one of very few abilities in LOL with effectively no substantial counter, because you always have QSS and cleanse for CC, MR and armor for non-true damage, health for non-% true damage, etc, etc.
If silver bolts was the silver lining to a shitty kit, that might be one thing, but as Rami notes, her overall kit is pretty solid with multiple repositions, multiple escapes, a (situational) hard CC, etc. Compare this to quickdraw, which if used as a steroid, cannot be used as an escape. And also, it doesn't add true damage, so armor mitigates its benefit.
Well, there's counterplay through champ select, which is kinda shitty for a variety of reasons, and counterplay through in-game play, which is the best type in theory, but in practice, "Dont get auto attacked by Vayne" is rather complicated by the fact that she has multiple chase abilities and some champ roles, like tanks and bruisers, are going to get auto attacked a lot regardless of skill level.
You can bring up skillshots, but that just makes your point weaker, because silver bolts is not a skill shot, has no resource cost, has no opportunity cost (well, a minor one pre-18, but super minor).
50% reduction is 100 armor/MR (ignoring shreds and pens)
Joe's Stream.
Makes sense. I was just thinking spellshield condemn -> punish.
That seems a bit off to me.
Ok switching my support main to Janna.
Gypsylord is suggesting that Jinx's passive MS bonus is quite high
Ganking with missiles should be a thing.
http://www.lolking.net/guides/192121
?
thx. I was looking at the wrong site for it.
Reading that makes me think Powerball.
Who hasn't seen videos of Rammus going fountain to fountain in ten seconds flat?
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Edit: Ahahaa, 600 base range that goes up to 775? A 175% move speed buff? Wow...
i think you should buy a house and save for retirement
I could listen to those death noises all day, but that laugh is Lux tier (which is appropriate).
lol
she 'bout to get the lucian treatment
her lines are great though
Who am I kidding though. She'll either be OP at release, or they'll Lucian her.
Scandalous.
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Lucian is annoyed with this post
also, stupid dumb rocket launcher....
Wow, I don't see how I don't buy her and that skin on day one. I love her personality, and that skin is awesome.
Anyone?
PSN: BrightWing13 FFX|V:ARR Bright Asuna
Nothing worse than when someone gloats in a victory in which they had almost no part
Safe money's on she doesn't actually have one, she's just meta-trolling the audience.
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