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[Industry] And with strange fiscal quarters, even death is doomed.

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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    shadowane wrote: »
    Allforce wrote: »
    The industry is chugging along making billions a year. You can bet your ass they made a nice profit on DMC sales, and they would have with 600k copies sold as well.

    Not every game is GTAV with a 100 million dollar budget. Most games can (and are) made on reasonable budgets and turn a major profit for the publisher.
    Do you have anything to back up these statements and numbers or are you just pulling them out of your ass?

    1.x mil copies is ~$50 million dollars gross

    I have a real hard time believing DmC cost more than $50mil to make and market

    you uh

    don't get back 100% of the money that people pay at retail for games

    6a00d8341c630a53ef0120a8b7438c970b-600wi
    src: LA Times

    I was taking what I figured was probably the retailer cut out ($10). I'm really surprised physical production and distribution costs that much/unit.

    Even then, you're looking at $27.5 million to Capcom. I don't know how long it was in production, but I'd still be surprised if they lost their ass on it.

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    A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Don't shoot the messenger.
    Information broker The NPD Group's "Kids and Gaming 2013" report found that children aged 12 to 17 are spending seven hours per week on mobile gaming, up from five hours per week in 2011. The report studied the gaming habits of children aged 2 to 17.

    While more children still use computers and consoles for gaming, the report notes there are now "almost" as many kids playing on mobile devices as there are on the more prominent platforms.

    Liam Callahan, an industry analyst with The NPD Group, said in the report that "kids are engaged as less expensive tablets and an increasing amount of hand-me-down phones create greater accessibility to these platforms than before."

    The report's findings were gathered online from a sample of female adults, aged 21 to 60, that are part of NPD's online panel and house children between the age of 2 to 17. The report is based off the answers of 3,842 children and, in the case of younger children, answers provided by adults on their behalf.

    http://www.joystiq.com/2013/09/14/npd-almost-as-many-kids-gaming-on-mobiles-as-consoles-comput/

    Could you please drop the "oh god I'm sorry but mobile gaming" thing. Nobody but you had cared for a long time.

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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    kaliyama wrote: »
    Spoit wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Well...honestly I have to wonder if those big discount you see on Steam and such are really hurting the developer that much.

    Sure you can get like 40 dollar games day one and stuff but I wonder if in the long run that still makes the publisher about as much money as a retail copy does when you factor in shipping and stuff.

    Well DD platforms take 30% off, but other than that...Returns are negligible since steam makes it a pain in the ass to do so, it's PC so there's no platform holder's fee, and the distribution costs are drastically reduced

    That's why people's love of steam as an alternative distribution channel always baffles me: we're great for developers because we're so anti-consumer!

    You can't return a physical PC game either.

    The returns on that graph aren't consumers to the store, it's the store returning unsold games to the publisher

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Speaking of Valve, Gabe Newell gave a talk recently at a Linux conference, talking about how Valve's recent interest in linux was partially prompted by how closed iOS is, to the point where it can take upwards of six months for updates to the Steam app to get certified. Gabe says he hopes linux, or some variation thereof, could be a focal point for a universal pc/console/mobile development platform.

    Anywho, the important thing is that Gabe said Valve could start talking about their hardware plans as early as next week.. So if we're lucky we'll hear about it before the year's end :D

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    fragglefartfragglefart Registered User regular
    Anecdotally, soz no numbers here, but here in Great Britland, anyone working with kids can tell you that mobile phone / tablet game use has seen an enormous rise.

    In the last year, my place of employment has secured a suite of iPads, and this school year, a new suite of Win7 PCs.

    The kids are all over the tablets. They all talk about iPhones, gaming, apps, the lot.

    The number of them, year on year, who have no freaking idea how to use mouse & keyboard compared to the last lot continually surprises me for such a tech-savvy group. Some of them now become completely stumped when they touch the monitor and nothing happens, I'm not kidding. On the flip side, the PC-centric households spawn kids with amazing software knowledge.

    fragglefart.jpg
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    ShatterShockShatterShock Registered User regular
    Analyst: GTA 5 Will Make $1 Billion, Sell 20 Million Units by March
    Grand Theft Auto V will make $1 billion in its first month at retail, if an analyst's suspicions become reality.

    "Given the significantly higher installed base of relevant console platforms at launch, greater sales concentration among the top video game franchises, and unprecedented pentup demand," said Colin Sebastian of Robert W. Baird said, "we expect GTA 5 to outpace GTA 4 sales, and generate roughly $1 billion in retail sales during the first month."

    Analysts Arvind Bhatia and Brett Strauser of Sterne Agee estimate GTA V could sell as many as 20 million copies by its fiscal year end in March 2014. "We see potential for worldwide day-one sell-through of 6.5 million units [and] $400 million for GTA V," they said. Grand Theft Auto IV, for reference, shipped nearly 25 million since its release in 2008.

    This would exceed Take-Two's prediction that its software lineup would pull in between $750-$800 million for its entire financial quarter, and would go a long way to helping the company hit its $2 billion earnings prediction for all of its products by March 2014.

    GTA V scored a 10/10 on IGN.

    Source: Gamasutra

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    CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    That's mind blowing. I wonder how much GTA continues to see such crazy numbers because they don't pimp it out every year.

    It seemed only a few short years ago that gaming began to be seriously looked at when it started to out do Hollywood releases.

    But as this summer proved release too much at one time some are going to fall by the wayside. Still gaming seems to keep the bigger titles apart from one another, unfortunately the middle and lower titles don't appear to be getting the same amount of profile as they once did. The concept of AAA gets thrown around so much but how many of those lower titles are still suppose to bring about huge profits. And what point does it become too little. Expectations seem to be out of whack half the time.

    See Square with titles like Tomb Raider etc.

    Cade on
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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    I'm passing on the game due to reasons best left to the GTA thread, but say what you will about GTA it is one of the last few game series out there that is truly an event when a new release happens. The only other properties that I could think of that are like that are Half-Life and uh... Pokemon.

    Dehumanized on
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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    I'm passing on the game due to reasons best left to the GTA thread, but say what you will about GTA it is one of the last few game series out there that is truly an event when a new release happens. The only other properties that I could think of that are like that are Half-Life and uh... Pokemon.

    Having only two releases over an extremely long hardware generation helps the fervor too.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    Are you forgetting CoD, or

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Are you forgetting CoD, or

    Why would he mention games that it is cool to hate like CoD or Madden.

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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    Well Madden has dropped off a bit

    But CoD is usually the biggest launch of every year, and only increases yearly

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    NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    Also, CoD and Madden tent to have big media/marketing blitzes behind them.

    Last commercial I saw for GTA was for the DLC for 4 and I didn't even realize that 5 was out this week.
    If they are promoting, it's not on any of the networks I watch (mainly the Turner and USA stations).

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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    They show GTAV commercials on USA during Raw

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    NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    Ahh... haven't watched wrasslin' since 99.

    Maybe I'm no longer the target demo then?

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    Snake GandhiSnake Gandhi Des Moines, IARegistered User regular
    They show GTAV commercials on USA during Raw
    I don't watch Breaking Bad but I hear there were a ton of GTAV commercials during that.

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    BronzeKoopaBronzeKoopa Registered User regular
    It kind of baffles me in how parents purchase ipads for really young kids these days, and it's really astonishing how they talk about apps and games at that age as well. This past two holidays my relatives' and their friends of friends all have kids just glued to their ipads with those tonka tough looking cases. They are either playing or watching Minecraft videos or talking about trading items, characters, or whatever on some mobile rpg game. Like a few years ago they were running around causing a ruckus during holidays and now they just sit at the table staring at their $600+ gizmos. God I feel old.

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    Medium DaveMedium Dave Registered User regular
    They show GTAV commercials on USA during Raw
    I don't watch Breaking Bad but I hear there were a ton of GTAV commercials during that.

    There were multiple ones, yes.

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    DrakeonDrakeon Registered User regular
    GTA V has been running on a lot of things. Saw a bunch during Football as well (which should come as no surprise). I feel like no matter what I'm watching, I'm seeing GTA V commercials, haven't seen this big of a push for a video game in forever.

    PSN: Drakieon XBL: Drakieon Steam: TheDrakeon
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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    It kind of baffles me in how parents purchase ipads for really young kids these days, and it's really astonishing how they talk about apps and games at that age as well. This past two holidays my relatives' and their friends of friends all have kids just glued to their ipads with those tonka tough looking cases. They are either playing or watching Minecraft videos or talking about trading items, characters, or whatever on some mobile rpg game. Like a few years ago they were running around causing a ruckus during holidays and now they just sit at the table staring at their $600+ gizmos. God I feel old.

    I really do wonder what will happen after a few more years of this, with next to nothing kid-friendly on the consoles but with phones and tablets loaded up with stuff that appeals to kids. We could see some kids deciding never to move onto consoles.

    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
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    Snake GandhiSnake Gandhi Des Moines, IARegistered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »

    I really do wonder what will happen after a few more years of this, with next to nothing kid-friendly on the consoles but with phones and tablets loaded up with stuff that appeals to kids. We could see some kids deciding never to move onto consoles.
    I don't understand? There's plenty of kid-friendly games on consoles.

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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Are you forgetting CoD, or

    Why would he mention games that it is cool to hate like CoD or Madden.

    Wasn't intended as a slight. The frequency of releases just doesn't lend itself to as much of a feeling as an event as the other examples I presented did. That said, I run in different circles than the CoD enthusiast crowd and would be fine with admitting that I made an oversight.

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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »

    I really do wonder what will happen after a few more years of this, with next to nothing kid-friendly on the consoles but with phones and tablets loaded up with stuff that appeals to kids. We could see some kids deciding never to move onto consoles.
    I don't understand? There's plenty of kid-friendly games on consoles.

    Not really. Now that IP-related releases and mid-range releases have died down, the vast majority of the releases out there are at least T-rated. Stuff like Skylanders and Disney Infinity have become the exception, at least compared to older generations. Hell, even compared to the start of this generation. It's pretty hard for me to find a good retail game for my nephew.

    Though of course there's Nintendo stuff.

    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
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    fearsomepiratefearsomepirate I ate a pickle once. Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    The tablets are a few hundred bucks for a machine, then the games range from "free" to "a bit more than a Happy Meal." Plus they're portable movie players. Compare this with a console, where the machine costs a couple hundred bucks, and the games are $60 a pop. I could totally see being willing to sink a little extra cash up front to basically spend nothing on games ever again if the kids were happy with it.

    fearsomepirate on
    Nobody makes me bleed my own blood...nobody.
    PSN ID: fearsomepirate
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    Snake GandhiSnake Gandhi Des Moines, IARegistered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »

    I really do wonder what will happen after a few more years of this, with next to nothing kid-friendly on the consoles but with phones and tablets loaded up with stuff that appeals to kids. We could see some kids deciding never to move onto consoles.
    I don't understand? There's plenty of kid-friendly games on consoles.

    Not really. Now that IP-related releases and mid-range releases have died down, the vast majority of the releases out there are at least T-rated. Stuff like Skylanders and Disney Infinity have become the exception, at least compared to older generations. Hell, even compared to the start of this generation. It's pretty hard for me to find a good retail game for my nephew.

    Though of course there's Nintendo stuff.
    Hmm. I never found kid friendly games all that hard to find. But then my nephews and niece mainly play Minecraft and the various Lego games.

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    StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    edited September 2013
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »

    I really do wonder what will happen after a few more years of this, with next to nothing kid-friendly on the consoles but with phones and tablets loaded up with stuff that appeals to kids. We could see some kids deciding never to move onto consoles.
    I don't understand? There's plenty of kid-friendly games on consoles.

    Not really. Now that IP-related releases and mid-range releases have died down, the vast majority of the releases out there are at least T-rated. Stuff like Skylanders and Disney Infinity have become the exception, at least compared to older generations. Hell, even compared to the start of this generation. It's pretty hard for me to find a good retail game for my nephew.

    Though of course there's Nintendo stuff.

    Skylanders isn't enough?

    Stormwatcher on
    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited September 2013
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Are you forgetting CoD, or

    Why would he mention games that it is cool to hate like CoD or Madden.

    Wasn't intended as a slight. The frequency of releases just doesn't lend itself to as much of a feeling as an event as the other examples I presented did. That said, I run in different circles than the CoD enthusiast crowd and would be fine with admitting that I made an oversight.

    CoD is still an event every time, and madden is as well in some areas of the country (anywhere that's "football country" applies here). GTA is something different though. The line outside of the GameStop here is at least 200 deep, flowing across almost the entire plaza. In the same building is a Five Guys that is staying open past midnight because of this launch.

    That many people in line almost two hours before open? That's unheard of, and this is a rural town on the VT/NH border. I can only imagine what a city store looks like right now.

    Shadowfire on
    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    I guess it was harder in my case since he never got into the Lego games and his parents made me swear I'd never start him down the Skylanders path. :P

    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    The tablets are a few hundred bucks for a machine, then the games range from "free" to "a bit more than a Happy Meal." Plus they're portable movie players. Compare this with a console, where the machine costs a couple hundred bucks, and the games are $60 a pop. I could totally see being willing to sink a little extra cash up front to basically spend nothing on games ever again if the kids were happy with it.

    Until your kids accidentally spend $500 on Candy Crush Saga

    Then you're fucked

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Game Newell hates on PC gaming, says Linux is the future, and he's going to take us there.
    Gabe Newell, the co-founder and managing director of Valve, said today that Linux is the future of gaming despite its current minuscule share of the market.

    That seems hard to believe, given that Newell acknowledged Linux gaming generally accounts for less than one percent of the market by any measure including players, player minutes, and revenue. But Valve is going to do its best to make sure Linux becomes the future of gaming by extending its Steam distribution platform to hardware designed for living rooms.

    Newell made his comments while delivering a keynote at LinuxCon in New Orleans. "It feels a little bit funny coming here and telling you guys that Linux and open source are the future of gaming," Newell said. "It's sort of like going to Rome and teaching Catholicism to the pope."

    Valve brought Steam to Linux in February, and the platform now has 198 games. Newell has previously promised to unveil a Linux-based "Steam box" to compete against living room gaming consoles sometime this year, and his company has updated the Steam software to work better on TVs. While he didn't specifically mention the Steam box today, Newell hinted at an announcement next week.

    "Next week we're going to be rolling out more information about how we get there and what are the hardware opportunities we see for bringing Linux into the living room," Newell said.

    Getting games to work on Linux has its challenges. If not implemented right, "Just compile it yourself" could be the inconvenient solution to the problem of installing games and applying updates, he said. However, Valve worked through these problems in bringing Left 4 Dead 2 to Linux, hopefully showing the way to other developers, he said.

    Bringing Steam to Linux "was a signal for our development partners that we really were serious about this Linux thing we were talking about," Newell said.

    Besides just releasing Steam on Linux-based operating systems, Valve is contributing to the LLDB debugger project and is co-developing an additional debugger for Linux, Newell said.

    "When we talk to developers and say, 'if you can pick one thing for Valve to work on the tools side to make Linux a better development target,' they always say we should build a debugger," he said.

    Newell has previously complained about Windows 8 being a "catastrophe for everyone in the PC space," and he reiterated these concerns today. Closed platforms are going to lose to open ones that allow innovation, he said. But that won't stop Steam's rise: Despite year-over-year declines in the PC market, Steam has seen a 76 percent increase in its own sales according to Newell.

    "I think we'll see either significant restructuring or market exits by top five PC players. It's looking pretty grim," he said. "Systems which are innovation-friendly and embrace openness are going to have a greater competitive advantage to closed or tightly regulated systems."

    Here's the video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Gzn6E2m3otg

    A Steambox is one of those worst kept secret things, so not terribly surprised, but... Linux? Really? I mean, I guess maybe?

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    Linux would be fine if it didn't suck.

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    ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2013
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Game Newell hates on PC gaming, says Linux is the future, and he's going to take us there.
    Gabe Newell, the co-founder and managing director of Valve, said today that Linux is the future of gaming despite its current minuscule share of the market.

    That seems hard to believe, given that Newell acknowledged Linux gaming generally accounts for less than one percent of the market by any measure including players, player minutes, and revenue. But Valve is going to do its best to make sure Linux becomes the future of gaming by extending its Steam distribution platform to hardware designed for living rooms.

    Newell made his comments while delivering a keynote at LinuxCon in New Orleans. "It feels a little bit funny coming here and telling you guys that Linux and open source are the future of gaming," Newell said. "It's sort of like going to Rome and teaching Catholicism to the pope."

    Valve brought Steam to Linux in February, and the platform now has 198 games. Newell has previously promised to unveil a Linux-based "Steam box" to compete against living room gaming consoles sometime this year, and his company has updated the Steam software to work better on TVs. While he didn't specifically mention the Steam box today, Newell hinted at an announcement next week.

    "Next week we're going to be rolling out more information about how we get there and what are the hardware opportunities we see for bringing Linux into the living room," Newell said.

    Getting games to work on Linux has its challenges. If not implemented right, "Just compile it yourself" could be the inconvenient solution to the problem of installing games and applying updates, he said. However, Valve worked through these problems in bringing Left 4 Dead 2 to Linux, hopefully showing the way to other developers, he said.

    Bringing Steam to Linux "was a signal for our development partners that we really were serious about this Linux thing we were talking about," Newell said.

    Besides just releasing Steam on Linux-based operating systems, Valve is contributing to the LLDB debugger project and is co-developing an additional debugger for Linux, Newell said.

    "When we talk to developers and say, 'if you can pick one thing for Valve to work on the tools side to make Linux a better development target,' they always say we should build a debugger," he said.

    Newell has previously complained about Windows 8 being a "catastrophe for everyone in the PC space," and he reiterated these concerns today. Closed platforms are going to lose to open ones that allow innovation, he said. But that won't stop Steam's rise: Despite year-over-year declines in the PC market, Steam has seen a 76 percent increase in its own sales according to Newell.

    "I think we'll see either significant restructuring or market exits by top five PC players. It's looking pretty grim," he said. "Systems which are innovation-friendly and embrace openness are going to have a greater competitive advantage to closed or tightly regulated systems."

    Here's the video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Gzn6E2m3otg

    A Steambox is one of those worst kept secret things, so not terribly surprised, but... Linux? Really? I mean, I guess maybe?

    A continuously developed platform that can be controlled and molded to your whims without the mercy of, say, Microsoft or Apple? Yeah, of course it's going to be Linux, that's no surprise. Valve has been on that road for a while now, bringing Steam and Source titles to it.

    Zxerol on
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    BlindPsychicBlindPsychic Registered User regular
    I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.


    But anyways, I'm amused by the fact that we've finally achieved some sort of parity x86-wise, and now Gabe wants us to take the next step. I'm welcoming it, if only so that Open GL can make a comeback.

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    fearsomepiratefearsomepirate I ate a pickle once. Registered User regular
    Does Valve actually port games to Linux, or does it simply say to developers, "Hey, feel free to write your games for Linux, and you can sell them on Steam"?

    I genuinely don't get the appeal of Rockstar games. I have tried to get into GTA:VC and Read Dead Redemption, and I thought each game was boring and janky. But they sell like hotcakes, so they must be doing something right.

    Nobody makes me bleed my own blood...nobody.
    PSN ID: fearsomepirate
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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.


    But anyways, I'm amused by the fact that we've finally achieved some sort of parity x86-wise, and now Gabe wants us to take the next step. I'm welcoming it, if only so that Open GL can make a comeback.

    That first paragraph is a good reason why Linux hasn't caught on. :rotate:

    Dehumanized on
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    ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    Referring Linux as "GNU/Linux" is really just a prayer to keep a dormant Richard Stallman from awaking from his abyssal slumber and wrecking havoc on the proprietary world.

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    reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    Maybe Gabe's plan is to give the GNU's at 75% discount and have you accumulate corelibs and shell utilities while you play games.

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    AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    I always see ads for Rockstar games at train stations, bus stops and such, but never any other publisher seems to do that. I wonder why? Insanely expensive? Doesn't seem like it should be, but what do I know.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    Does Valve actually port games to Linux, or does it simply say to developers, "Hey, feel free to write your games for Linux, and you can sell them on Steam"?

    The latter; though as of this week it appears that Valve has ported all their games to Linux/Mac, in at least beta form.

    Undead Scottsman on
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.


    But anyways, I'm amused by the fact that we've finally achieved some sort of parity x86-wise, and now Gabe wants us to take the next step. I'm welcoming it, if only so that Open GL can make a comeback.

    A Møøse once bit my sister...

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