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[Industry] And with strange fiscal quarters, even death is doomed.

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    LanrutconLanrutcon The LabyrinthRegistered User regular
    Monster Hunter 4 breaks 2 million sales in 4 days.


    No surprise there. I'm curious to see if 3DS sales also spiked.

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    shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Gabe: Linux is the future of computer gaming.
    Reporter: But... consumers don't run or even understand Linux.
    Gabe: I don't see how customers are important to selling things.

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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Gabe: Linux is the future of computer gaming.
    Reporter: But... consumers don't run or even understand Linux.
    Gabe: I don't see how customers are important to selling things.

    Steam. box.

    steam_sig.png
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    MorranMorran Registered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    Gabe: Linux is the future of computer gaming.
    Reporter: But... consumers don't run or even understand Linux.
    Gabe: I don't see how customers are important to selling things.

    Steam. box.

    It seems like he had even larger plans for unifying different environments, not only desktop and (tv-centric) consoles, but also mobile devices. This would imply not only a linux Steambox, but also valve interest in linux on phones. I would install ubuntu on my phone in a heartbeat if it would allow me to seamlessly plat FTL by my laptop, on my sofa and wherever i went....

    Further, linux is not "hard" anymore: i was able to replace windows on my laptop with a fully functional ubuntu version in less than two hours, and i am by no means tech savvy. I actually tried to find a legal way to just re-install windows, but was unable to do so! (this is for a laptop with no dvd reader, pre-installed windows).

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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    What the fuck is Linux

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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Kid with the security blanket in Peanuts.

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    MorranMorran Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    What the fuck is Linux

    You don't know what linux is? Ah, luckily encyclopedia britannica will generously offer the first 100 words of their article on linux for free, (though the article itself is short and out-of-date): here you go. Just remember to sign up for one of their affordable programs if you want to access the whole article!

    Or, you could just check the excellent article on Wikipedia, which is free, extensive and up-to-date.

    I guess that Valve see the benefits of the business model under which the latter of the two alternatives above operates, and chooses to act accordingly.

    Morran on
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    StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    Call me when at least 80% of my steam library is running natively on linux, at the same level of performance as it does on Win8.

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    As much as everyone is writing this off.. Gabe has a bit of a point. Well, more than a bit.

    Windows gaming became the dominant PC gaming format through a combination of three things, in order:

    1) DOS/Windows were the lead platform of the PC revolution, thanks to a ton of productivity software. People bought games formatted for the tools they already had.

    2) When Windows started maturing, Microsoft developed the DirectX architecture to further standardize things, mostly as a response to the fact that Windows was originally a horrible platform for writing drivers and code for. This unified, standardized infrastructure became pretty much mandatory on some level.

    3) When Microsoft decided to enter the console market, the DirectX Box was their vehicle. The side benefit was that PC poritng became much easier due to shared code.

    Hell, we still see ramifications of this: Nintendo's used a modified OpenGL codeset (called OpenGX in at least one console generation) since the N64, but because they aren't using Direct3D it takes a measure of work to get a game onto their platforms, making it cost prohibitive.

    So why is Gabe making a solid case?

    1) The future isn't going to be Windows PC based for home use. We've seen the Web 2.0 evolve into cloud-based computing, and we have seen a massive rise of iOS and Android. While Windows is still strong in the work space, at home the landscape is changing.

    2) No one is going to care what OS a box plugged into your TV will use. Roku, Chromecast, Apple/Google TV, built in apps.. All run their own software, free of Windows licensing.

    3) Microsoft is shooting themselves in the foot with Windows 8. Don't get me wrong - I plan on buying a Surface Pro 2, specifically because Windows 8 is awesome as a touch-screen interface.. But for my desktop? Ehhh.. it could be a lot better. And if the Windows store is any indication, Microsoft is starting to wall off things a lot more, which is bad for consumers.

    Now.. will this happen in even then next 5 years? Probably not. But if any company can push it, it's Valve.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
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    urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    I feel like the people who say "Linux sucks!" haven't actually used Linux ever (or in a long, long time). Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora... All of the OSes are fantastic and very easy to learn. They are all basically Windows clones at this point (visually).

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    AllforceAllforce Registered User regular
    Lanrutcon wrote: »

    Followup, GTA V breaks 4 million sales since midnight last night.

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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    Morran wrote: »
    What the fuck is Linux

    You don't know what linux is? Ah, luckily encyclopedia britannica will generously offer the first 100 words of their article on linux for free, (though the article itself is short and out-of-date): here you go. Just remember to sign up for one of their affordable programs if you want to access the whole article!

    Or, you could just check the excellent article on Wikipedia, which is free, extensive and up-to-date.

    I guess that Valve see the benefits of the business model under which the latter of the two alternatives above operates, and chooses to act accordingly.

    The latter of those options is a non-profit and therefore not a good business model

    So uh

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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    I feel like the people who say "Linux sucks!" haven't actually used Linux ever (or in a long, long time). Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora... All of the OSes are fantastic and very easy to learn. They are all basically Windows clones at this point (visually).

    So why not just use Windows

    Legit asking here

    Windows seems to do just fine

    All I ever hear about Linux is "shit for games"

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    For the record, I completely agree with UV on this, but this discussion kills every thread.

    We might as well start talking about religion!

    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
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    ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    I really only keep Windows around because, surprise, I like playing video games. It'd be snazzy for me to just go all Linux and have access to *nix toolchains and do Important Shit™ without having to Cygwin up all the time. Of course, my perspective is not common to the average consumer.

    On the other side, though, John Carmack has said that he doesn't think Linux is ready for prime time as a gaming platform, and that instead of port begging, the Linux community is better served by improving WINE instead. That is also an enthusiast perspective, because the only people who are going to fuck with WINE are those already and intimately familiar with the OS. Valve's perspective is probably more egalitarian, but it's still likely going to involve some sort of compatibility layer like WINE, otherwise you're not going to have the big, AAA games on the system at all.

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    LanrutconLanrutcon The LabyrinthRegistered User regular
    edited September 2013
    When the only way to make your OS attractive to consumers is to make it a copy of your competitor's OS...I mean, that kind of speaks for itself.

    Lanrutcon on
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    Skull2185Skull2185 Registered User regular
    Allforce wrote: »
    Lanrutcon wrote: »

    Followup, GTA V breaks 4 million sales since midnight last night.

    Did it really?

    4 million in 9 hours is crazy...

    Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
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    AllforceAllforce Registered User regular
    I have no idea honestly but I'm guessing its plausible. COD regularly sells 5 million in a single day..

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    DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    I was surprised at how well steam runs on linux when I tried (they were giving out the tf2 penguin). All of the source games run better now by a good margin (10fps better on old hardware). I was also surprised at how many games were already good to go in linux. If you have like 1-2 games that you play regularly, you should check and see if they are working and give it a shot.
    urahonky wrote: »
    I feel like the people who say "Linux sucks!" haven't actually used Linux ever (or in a long, long time). Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora... All of the OSes are fantastic and very easy to learn. They are all basically Windows clones at this point (visually).

    So why not just use Windows

    Legit asking here

    Windows seems to do just fine

    All I ever hear about Linux is "shit for games"

    I only use windows because of games. All my other machines run linux, and gamers should be sick of the "want directx 11.bullshit? better pay us 100-200$ for a new operating system you'ill hate!". Theres alot of bloat with windows that takes :effort: to fix, things where performance boosts would come easier in linux. Plus its free, and theres a ton of support for all kinds of crazy shit you can do with more free software.

    I used to have a saying "linux is like a pickup truck, it has a specific use, but 90% of owners just do it to say they have one". It used to be just really great for servers, and ok or less for desktops. Linux has picked up steam (punz olol) as a competitor for windows. I would be forcing my parents to use it (harder to fuck stuff up as a regular user and easier to lock down) if I could make quicken run on the damn thing(and not an alternative).

    DiannaoChong on
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    urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    I feel like the people who say "Linux sucks!" haven't actually used Linux ever (or in a long, long time). Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora... All of the OSes are fantastic and very easy to learn. They are all basically Windows clones at this point (visually).

    So why not just use Windows

    Legit asking here

    Windows seems to do just fine

    All I ever hear about Linux is "shit for games"

    Well Linux has the advantage of being faster and less prone to viruses. It's also free, so that's a bonus.

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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Windows 8 proves one important point.

    People. Hate. Change.

    It doesn't matter how much better the change is, if it's more efficient, or even if you can change it to be 100% identical. It's different, so they hates it.

    So if you want to transition PC users from Windows to Linix, you have one motherfucking Sisyphus level mountain to climb.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    Not really. People hated it because they hated Metro. The Linux UI is so very close to Windows that it would make it easy.

    But really this entire argument is null because what Gabe was talking about is getting Steam Box built under Linux (which is an obvious choice).

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    Commodore75Commodore75 gothenburg.seRegistered User regular
    edited September 2013
    When the only option left to make your OS even more attractive to consumers is to make it more like the OS they are already using...I mean, that kind of speaks for itself.
    [edit] Let me clarify...
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    When you the only way to make your OS attractive to consumers is to make it a copy of your competitor's OS...I mean, that kind of speaks for itself.

    If people seem to think that the only way to improve the OS (or to get more customers, and thus software), is to make it more familiar to potential customers ... That sounds like a pretty good place to work from.
    (That doesn't mean it's easy to court Users ... but it could be a lot worse.)

    Yeah, that doesn't mean that software will magically start running on Lunix, but that's another problem...

    Commodore75 on
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    urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    When the only option left to make your OS even more attractive to consumers is to make it more like the OS they are already using...I mean, that kind of speaks for itself.

    LOOKS LIKE and IS are completely different.

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    A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    When the only option left to make your OS even more attractive to consumers is to make it more like the OS they are already using...I mean, that kind of speaks for itself.

    Is copy pasta on the menu today?

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    urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    The difference is that you're talking about different GUI packages. Ubuntu and Mint look identical to Windows and they are designed that way. If you want to go a different route then you can choose a different overlay.

    That's the benefit of Linux. Linux is just the back-end stuff. The GUI can be tailored to look like however you want it to look like.

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    LanrutconLanrutcon The LabyrinthRegistered User regular
    Windows 8 proves one important point.

    People. Hate. Change.

    It doesn't matter how much better the change is, if it's more efficient, or even if you can change it to be 100% identical. It's different, so they hates it.

    So if you want to transition PC users from Windows to Linix, you have one motherfucking Sisyphus level mountain to climb.

    Whoa there. Windows 8 proves people don't want metro on their friggin desktops, that's what Windows 8 proves.

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    Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Morran wrote: »
    Spoit wrote: »
    Gabe: Linux is the future of computer gaming.
    Reporter: But... consumers don't run or even understand Linux.
    Gabe: I don't see how customers are important to selling things.

    Steam. box.

    It seems like he had even larger plans for unifying different environments, not only desktop and (tv-centric) consoles, but also mobile devices. This would imply not only a linux Steambox, but also valve interest in linux on phones. I would install ubuntu on my phone in a heartbeat if it would allow me to seamlessly plat FTL by my laptop, on my sofa and wherever i went....

    Further, linux is not "hard" anymore: i was able to replace windows on my laptop with a fully functional ubuntu version in less than two hours, and i am by no means tech savvy. I actually tried to find a legal way to just re-install windows, but was unable to do so! (this is for a laptop with no dvd reader, pre-installed windows).

    Bullshit

    Now, I'm a pretty tech savvy guy. I've been a System Engineer for 7 years. But I tried installing Ubuntu on my machine at home and could not get the wireless drivers installed/working.

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    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
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    SurikoSuriko AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    Windows 8 proves one important point.

    People. Hate. Change.

    It doesn't matter how much better the change is, if it's more efficient, or even if you can change it to be 100% identical. It's different, so they hates it.

    So if you want to transition PC users from Windows to Linix, you have one motherfucking Sisyphus level mountain to climb.

    Whoa there. Windows 8 proves people don't want metro on their friggin desktops, that's what Windows 8 proves.

    Except that once you click the desktop tile, Metro is functionally nonexistent. I loathe Metro, and quite happily run Windows 8.

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    urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    Suriko wrote: »
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    Windows 8 proves one important point.

    People. Hate. Change.

    It doesn't matter how much better the change is, if it's more efficient, or even if you can change it to be 100% identical. It's different, so they hates it.

    So if you want to transition PC users from Windows to Linix, you have one motherfucking Sisyphus level mountain to climb.

    Whoa there. Windows 8 proves people don't want metro on their friggin desktops, that's what Windows 8 proves.

    Except that once you click the desktop tile, Metro is functionally nonexistent. I loathe Metro, and quite happily run Windows 8.

    Absolutely. I agree with you.

    Consumers, however, still have no idea what Windows 8 offers. All they know is that Metro sucks and therefore Windows 8 sucks.

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    Commodore75Commodore75 gothenburg.seRegistered User regular
    edited September 2013
    urahonky wrote: »
    When the only option left to make your OS even more attractive to consumers is to make it more like the OS they are already using...I mean, that kind of speaks for itself.

    LOOKS LIKE and IS are completely different.

    . . . Are you saying that the only OS customers will want is the one that they are already using?
    (Because, to me, that seems like an overly pessimistic outlook on the situation.)

    Commodore75 on
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    urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Morran wrote: »
    Spoit wrote: »
    Gabe: Linux is the future of computer gaming.
    Reporter: But... consumers don't run or even understand Linux.
    Gabe: I don't see how customers are important to selling things.

    Steam. box.

    It seems like he had even larger plans for unifying different environments, not only desktop and (tv-centric) consoles, but also mobile devices. This would imply not only a linux Steambox, but also valve interest in linux on phones. I would install ubuntu on my phone in a heartbeat if it would allow me to seamlessly plat FTL by my laptop, on my sofa and wherever i went....

    Further, linux is not "hard" anymore: i was able to replace windows on my laptop with a fully functional ubuntu version in less than two hours, and i am by no means tech savvy. I actually tried to find a legal way to just re-install windows, but was unable to do so! (this is for a laptop with no dvd reader, pre-installed windows).

    Bullshit

    Now, I'm a pretty tech savvy guy. I've been a System Engineer for 7 years. But I tried installing Ubuntu on my machine at home and could not get the wireless drivers installed/working.

    Yeah something about Ubuntu and wireless drivers made me go bald. One laptop will work great, but the other won't. I think it's Marvell or something like that.

    I do hope that Gabe moves Linux's popularity skyward. The PC industry need to have this.

    But this is moving so far off topic that I'm going to drop it when I finish this post.

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    agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    Yeah, there's plenty of issues/hurdles with Linux. If you run into them prepare to RTFM.

    So it's a good thing Valve is going to be packaging a standardized box all set up for you with their big picture mode interface that will play all valve games and a bunch of other hot new PC releases from indie to AAA.

    ujav5b9gwj1s.png
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    urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    When the only option left to make your OS even more attractive to consumers is to make it more like the OS they are already using...I mean, that kind of speaks for itself.

    LOOKS LIKE and IS are completely different.

    . . . Are you saying that the only OS customers will want is the one that they are already using?
    (Because, to me, that seems like an overly pessimistic outlook on the situation.)

    I am the king of pessimism when it comes to the average consumer. :)

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    I feel like the people who say "Linux sucks!" haven't actually used Linux ever (or in a long, long time). Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora... All of the OSes are fantastic and very easy to learn. They are all basically Windows clones at this point (visually).

    So why not just use Windows

    Legit asking here

    Windows seems to do just fine

    But that was Gabe's point; he doesn't think Windows is fine any longer, being a closed platform that MS seems interested in making even more closed, akin to apple's app store.

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    Commodore75Commodore75 gothenburg.seRegistered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    I feel like the people who say "Linux sucks!" haven't actually used Linux ever (or in a long, long time). Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora... All of the OSes are fantastic and very easy to learn. They are all basically Windows clones at this point (visually).

    So why not just use Windows

    Legit asking here

    Windows seems to do just fine

    But that was Gabe's point; he doesn't think Windows is fine any longer, being a closed platform that MS seems interested in making even more closed, akin to apple's app store.

    ... so he wants to find greener pastures, where he can erect his own walled garden.
    Yay ... ?

    While competition is nice, more walled gardens might not be what we need the most.

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    urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    I don't understand what you mean about a walled garden. If Steambox is running in Linux then that means any game that runs on Steambox would run on any variation of the Linux OS. Plus the code is 100% open source.

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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    I feel like the people who say "Linux sucks!" haven't actually used Linux ever (or in a long, long time). Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora... All of the OSes are fantastic and very easy to learn. They are all basically Windows clones at this point (visually).

    So why not just use Windows

    Legit asking here

    Windows seems to do just fine

    But that was Gabe's point; he doesn't think Windows is fine any longer, being a closed platform that MS seems interested in making even more closed, akin to apple's app store.

    Windows is a closed platform now?

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    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    I feel like the people who say "Linux sucks!" haven't actually used Linux ever (or in a long, long time). Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora... All of the OSes are fantastic and very easy to learn. They are all basically Windows clones at this point (visually).

    So why not just use Windows

    Legit asking here

    Windows seems to do just fine

    But that was Gabe's point; he doesn't think Windows is fine any longer, being a closed platform that MS seems interested in making even more closed, akin to apple's app store.

    Windows is a closed platform now?

    Confusion of terms, I think.

    It's a closed system in that it isn't an open source system. It's a proprietary piece of software that Microsoft doesn't give user or developers the tools to modify directly. Microsoft has the final say on everything.

    Obviously, there's currently no bar to publish on a PC; though the Windows 8 Store is believed by many to be the first step towards that path.

    Undead Scottsman on
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    lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    I don't understand what you mean about a walled garden. If Steambox is running in Linux then that means any game that runs on Steambox would run on any variation of the Linux OS. Plus the code is 100% open source.

    I thought this wasn't the case and that is a good part of what what holds Linux back as far as gaming goes.

    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    I feel like the people who say "Linux sucks!" haven't actually used Linux ever (or in a long, long time). Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora... All of the OSes are fantastic and very easy to learn. They are all basically Windows clones at this point (visually).

    So why not just use Windows

    Legit asking here

    Windows seems to do just fine

    But that was Gabe's point; he doesn't think Windows is fine any longer, being a closed platform that MS seems interested in making even more closed, akin to apple's app store.

    Windows is a closed platform now?

    The worry is that MS wants to make it closed as part of their "lets forget everything we've been and copy Apple and Google" strategic plan.

    In my opinion MS's is still weak outside of their core business and their core business is very dependent on backward's compatibility so I doubt that MS could really close off Windows even if they wanted to.

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