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[Industry] And with strange fiscal quarters, even death is doomed.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    I don't understand what you mean about a walled garden. If Steambox is running in Linux then that means any game that runs on Steambox would run on any variation of the Linux OS. Plus the code is 100% open source.

    I thought this wasn't the case and that is a good part of what what holds Linux back as far as gaming goes.

    As far as I know, that hasn't been a major issue is years. So long as you're not getting into super esoteric Linux versions (which the average user probably wouldn't even be able to FIND; let alone install and use) you really shouldn't have a huge issue. Then again, I'm not super well versed in Linux so I might be wrong.

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Morran wrote: »
    What the fuck is Linux

    You don't know what linux is? Ah, luckily encyclopedia britannica will generously offer the first 100 words of their article on linux for free, (though the article itself is short and out-of-date): here you go. Just remember to sign up for one of their affordable programs if you want to access the whole article!

    Or, you could just check the excellent article on Wikipedia, which is free, extensive and up-to-date.

    I guess that Valve see the benefits of the business model under which the latter of the two alternatives above operates, and chooses to act accordingly.

    The latter of those options is a non-profit and therefore not a good business model

    So uh

    Non-profit organizations are still considered, in a broad sense, businesses. They have a different motive as far as their revenue stream, but they are businesses, and run as such.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Morran wrote: »
    What the fuck is Linux

    You don't know what linux is? Ah, luckily encyclopedia britannica will generously offer the first 100 words of their article on linux for free, (though the article itself is short and out-of-date): here you go. Just remember to sign up for one of their affordable programs if you want to access the whole article!

    Or, you could just check the excellent article on Wikipedia, which is free, extensive and up-to-date.

    I guess that Valve see the benefits of the business model under which the latter of the two alternatives above operates, and chooses to act accordingly.

    The latter of those options is a non-profit and therefore not a good business model

    So uh

    Non-profit organizations are still considered, in a broad sense, businesses. They have a different motive as far as their revenue stream, but they are businesses, and run as such.

    You're gonna have to work pretty hard to persuade me that "begging" is the business model Steam should pursue

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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Morran wrote: »
    What the fuck is Linux

    You don't know what linux is? Ah, luckily encyclopedia britannica will generously offer the first 100 words of their article on linux for free, (though the article itself is short and out-of-date): here you go. Just remember to sign up for one of their affordable programs if you want to access the whole article!

    Or, you could just check the excellent article on Wikipedia, which is free, extensive and up-to-date.

    I guess that Valve see the benefits of the business model under which the latter of the two alternatives above operates, and chooses to act accordingly.

    The latter of those options is a non-profit and therefore not a good business model

    So uh

    Non-profit organizations are still considered, in a broad sense, businesses. They have a different motive as far as their revenue stream, but they are businesses, and run as such.

    You're gonna have to work pretty hard to persuade me that "begging" is the business model Steam should pursue

    You're not discussing Steam's business model, you're discussing the tools involved in Steam's business model.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    It seems like the main thing pissing off Gabe is that Windows 8 has become kind of a walled garden itself. Want your game to run in the "main" notMetro screen? Gotta sell it via the Windows Store. That chafes. (Yes, I realize you can just have it run in Windows 7 desktop mode and pin a shortcut to notMetro, but that's not the best solution as far as developers are concerned.)

    But a Linux Steambox... given the fact that only true die-hards are familiar with it and most people hate having to learn something completely new, Valve is pretty much going to have to modify the hell out of the UI to make things simple and easy to use. Though that would make Steambox, for all intents and purposes, a dedicated console and direct competitor to the other consoles.

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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    It seems like the main thing pissing off Gabe is that Windows 8 has become kind of a walled garden itself. Want your game to run in the "main" notMetro screen? Gotta sell it via the Windows Store. That chafes. (Yes, I realize you can just have it run in Windows 7 desktop mode and pin a shortcut to notMetro, but that's not the best solution as far as developers are concerned.)

    But a Linux Steambox... given the fact that only true die-hards are familiar with it and most people hate having to learn something completely new, Valve is pretty much going to have to modify the hell out of the UI to make things simple and easy to use. Though that would make Steambox, for all intents and purposes, a dedicated console and direct competitor to the other consoles.

    This still makes zero sense to me. Ok, if you want to be in the "official" Windows 8 store, you gotta go through MS? Sure, I can see how that's kind of stupid.

    But... Steam runs on Windows 8. Flawlessly, from my experience.

    I just don't understand what the issue is. Valve already has a superior store front. Why do they give a shit about MS's own store front?

    The "wall" that is Windows 8's garden is just a chalk outline on the ground.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    PeewiPeewi Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    It seems like the main thing pissing off Gabe is that Windows 8 has become kind of a walled garden itself. Want your game to run in the "main" notMetro screen? Gotta sell it via the Windows Store. That chafes. (Yes, I realize you can just have it run in Windows 7 desktop mode and pin a shortcut to notMetro, but that's not the best solution as far as developers are concerned.)

    But a Linux Steambox... given the fact that only true die-hards are familiar with it and most people hate having to learn something completely new, Valve is pretty much going to have to modify the hell out of the UI to make things simple and easy to use. Though that would make Steambox, for all intents and purposes, a dedicated console and direct competitor to the other consoles.

    This still makes zero sense to me. Ok, if you want to be in the "official" Windows 8 store, you gotta go through MS? Sure, I can see how that's kind of stupid.

    But... Steam runs on Windows 8. Flawlessly, from my experience.

    I just don't understand what the issue is. Valve already has a superior store front. Why do they give a shit about MS's own store front?

    The "wall" that is Windows 8's garden is just a chalk outline on the ground.

    It's not just a store. There's a new type of applications in Windows 8 that are run from the start screen and won't run at all on previous versions of Windows. And you can only distribute them through the Windows store. Microsoft introduced a new kind of Windows application that they 100% control the distribution of.

    So there's a little bit of fear that at some point in the future that will be the only kind of Windows application.

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    LilnoobsLilnoobs Alpha Queue Registered User regular
    Games are really the only thing keeping me on Windows (and I imagine that goes for a lot of people). If Valve can open the door to Linux for me and others, great! I'm not going to hate or get in their way like some people.

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    HounHoun Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    I don't understand what you mean about a walled garden. If Steambox is running in Linux then that means any game that runs on Steambox would run on any variation of the Linux OS. Plus the code is 100% open source.

    I thought this wasn't the case and that is a good part of what what holds Linux back as far as gaming goes.
    You start getting AAA titles on Steam for Linux, and you'll see all the major distros scramble to be compatible. As it is, most of the big libraries aren't really that far removed from each other, and even where there's no "official" support, it's Linux; there will be community efforts that backport the appropriate libraries and dependencies to ensure that shit runs on your flavor.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    Monster Hunter 4 breaks 2 million sales in 4 days.


    No surprise there. I'm curious to see if 3DS sales also spiked.

    I'll bet Capcom still doesn't have any plans to localize it for America, because Capcom.

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    WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    Peewi wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    It seems like the main thing pissing off Gabe is that Windows 8 has become kind of a walled garden itself. Want your game to run in the "main" notMetro screen? Gotta sell it via the Windows Store. That chafes. (Yes, I realize you can just have it run in Windows 7 desktop mode and pin a shortcut to notMetro, but that's not the best solution as far as developers are concerned.)

    But a Linux Steambox... given the fact that only true die-hards are familiar with it and most people hate having to learn something completely new, Valve is pretty much going to have to modify the hell out of the UI to make things simple and easy to use. Though that would make Steambox, for all intents and purposes, a dedicated console and direct competitor to the other consoles.

    This still makes zero sense to me. Ok, if you want to be in the "official" Windows 8 store, you gotta go through MS? Sure, I can see how that's kind of stupid.

    But... Steam runs on Windows 8. Flawlessly, from my experience.

    I just don't understand what the issue is. Valve already has a superior store front. Why do they give a shit about MS's own store front?

    The "wall" that is Windows 8's garden is just a chalk outline on the ground.

    It's not just a store. There's a new type of applications in Windows 8 that are run from the start screen and won't run at all on previous versions of Windows. And you can only distribute them through the Windows store. Microsoft introduced a new kind of Windows application that they 100% control the distribution of.

    So there's a little bit of fear that at some point in the future that will be the only kind of Windows application.

    Yes, there's a possibility that that could happen, and it makes everyone nervous. But right now, Windows is an open platform with a healthy developer ecosystem. Since nobody develops for Linux or knows how to use Linux, any Linux-based hardware Valve released would be, for all intents and purposes, a closed platform curated by Valve. This isn't literally true, because anyone could release and distribute games on Linux with no restrictions, but experience says that they won't (outside of the occasional Kickstarter that meets the "Linux version" stretch goal), so what's the difference to the average consumer?

    So at present, the only party that benefits from a hard push towards Linux gaming is Valve, not consumers or developers. If Windows 9 or 10 are both miserable failures then it's possible that Linux will have the opportunity to gain momentum, but it's more likely that non-indie PC development will just die out entirely. Prior to the effective extinction of Windows, the "best"-case scenario here is that Valve successfully fragments the PC market such that the costs of PC development increases without increasing the market size, disincentivizing PC development in general and making console ports extremely unattractive in particular.

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    BlindPsychicBlindPsychic Registered User regular
    Capcom must have a big wheel that they spin to decide whether things get localizations and ports. Still waiting for PC Dragon's Dogma and MvC3...

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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    What is the current state of Linux gaming, out of curiosity? How many games are up for Steam's Linux division?

    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
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    PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    But a Linux Steambox... given the fact that only true die-hards are familiar with it and most people hate having to learn something completely new, Valve is pretty much going to have to modify the hell out of the UI to make things simple and easy to use. Though that would make Steambox, for all intents and purposes, a dedicated console and direct competitor to the other consoles.

    I would totally buy a dedicated box with Big Picture Mode as a front-end. Doesn't even have to be able to drop down to a desktop.

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    DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    Windows 8 proves one important point.

    People. Hate. Change.

    It doesn't matter how much better the change is, if it's more efficient, or even if you can change it to be 100% identical. It's different, so they hates it.

    So if you want to transition PC users from Windows to Linix, you have one motherfucking Sisyphus level mountain to climb.

    Actually, this can be spun positively, when you tell them their shit is going to change either way, you can force the choice you want. Ubuntu(a very popular linux build) runs almost exactly the same as windows, and is more similar to windows 8(windows key brings up a full screen thing, but it has an advantage, it doesnt look like its getting in your way or leave the desktop)

    You say its a mountain, but the functionality is exactly the same as long as they dont have that one killer app that they refuse to give up(IE quicken in my case). There are equivalents available, but my father absolutely refuse to switch unless they can have that, and outlook (they just paid an absorbent amount of money for a copy of outlook to retrieve his webmail, because he likes it). I had my mother using ubuntu in 15 minutes, because all she did was use firefox, and open office/excel anyways. Her biggest gripe was the spider solitare built in wasnt the same. When I showed her how to get new spider solitares from the software center (verified free stuff), she was happy.

    She got mad when she couldnt run "freedolphinscreensavers.exe", but I was elated. Yes, she had done this before and we had a talk.

    Like, if you dont like doing tech support for your parents, just put them on linux. There are actual mods to make it look and behave (top level) exactly like windows to the point where if they are light users they will never notice the difference. There's no mountain there. I admit this solution is treating elderly like toddlers, but..... I'm lazy.


    edit:
    urahonky wrote: »
    I don't understand what you mean about a walled garden. If Steambox is running in Linux then that means any game that runs on Steambox would run on any variation of the Linux OS. Plus the code is 100% open source.

    I thought this wasn't the case and that is a good part of what what holds Linux back as far as gaming goes.

    This is right, right now only ubuntu is supported for steam linux. I believe it works on other flavors like mint, but everything else has the "unsupported" mark. Which means it ranges from "perfectly fine" to "completely broke" and they don't give a shit about trying for those flavors. However hardware wise they are on top of shit. I was amazing when They built in stuff to make the optimus hardware on my alienware work correctly. It's super specialized hardware that looks at what its running, and if its video intensive, uses the dedicated videocard instead of an onboard one. (onboard is for regular stuff to save battery). I was sold when that worked practically out of the box, in a early beta.

    DiannaoChong on
    steam_sig.png
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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    What is the current state of Linux gaming, out of curiosity? How many games are up for Steam's Linux division?

    There's a Linux tab on Steam, and clicking that leads to another link with "Find more games - 289".

    There's no equivalent info on the normal Steam page. But the button that says "2879 games under $10" seems like a decent place to get a rough estimate.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    MorranMorran Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    What is the current state of Linux gaming, out of curiosity? How many games are up for Steam's Linux division?

    not great, but not bad. 289 games, including all valves games, and a few pretty good others: ftl, mark of the ninja, fez, hotline Miami, don't starve, trine...

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    StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    I have no horse on this race. But my games won't run on linux, and it still lacks a decent Word substitute.
    Simple as that.

    And not even Apple went full "walled garden" on OSX,

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
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    MorranMorran Registered User regular
    that said, as someone who thinks that the ps4 indie push is the by far most exciting thing about next generation consoles, I would be more than happy to skip both the ps4 and xbone in favour of a steambox if the supported games list keep on growing.

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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    though the Windows 8 Store is believed by many to be the first step towards that path.

    It isn't

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    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    The actual number of Steam games on Linux is currently 175. The 289 number includes stuff like demos and packages. I'm not precisely sure how, because the numbers don't quite add up -- 175 listed games, 14 listed demos, 20 listed package deals, 139 listed DLC.

    http://store.steampowered.com/search/?sort_by=Price&sort_order=DESC&category1=998&os=linux#category1=998&os=linux&sort_by=Price&sort_order=DESC&page=1

    The same list ("Games" on PC) yields 2157 results.

    Dehumanized on
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    Ov3rchargeOv3rcharge R.I.P. Mass Effect You were dead to me for yearsRegistered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    Monster Hunter 4 breaks 2 million sales in 4 days.


    No surprise there. I'm curious to see if 3DS sales also spiked.

    I'll bet Capcom still doesn't have any plans to localize it for America, because Capcom.

    Do we have the sales numbers on 3 ultimate? I'm curious to see how that's done on the 3DS and Wii U.

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    JihadJesusJihadJesus Registered User regular
    Ov3rcharge wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    Monster Hunter 4 breaks 2 million sales in 4 days.


    No surprise there. I'm curious to see if 3DS sales also spiked.

    I'll bet Capcom still doesn't have any plans to localize it for America, because Capcom.

    Do we have the sales numbers on 3 ultimate? I'm curious to see how that's done on the 3DS and Wii U.
    I recall seeing they were pleasantly surprised with the WiiU numbers, but I can't find anything in the total sales.

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    kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    Peewi wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    It seems like the main thing pissing off Gabe is that Windows 8 has become kind of a walled garden itself. Want your game to run in the "main" notMetro screen? Gotta sell it via the Windows Store. That chafes. (Yes, I realize you can just have it run in Windows 7 desktop mode and pin a shortcut to notMetro, but that's not the best solution as far as developers are concerned.)

    But a Linux Steambox... given the fact that only true die-hards are familiar with it and most people hate having to learn something completely new, Valve is pretty much going to have to modify the hell out of the UI to make things simple and easy to use. Though that would make Steambox, for all intents and purposes, a dedicated console and direct competitor to the other consoles.

    This still makes zero sense to me. Ok, if you want to be in the "official" Windows 8 store, you gotta go through MS? Sure, I can see how that's kind of stupid.

    But... Steam runs on Windows 8. Flawlessly, from my experience.

    I just don't understand what the issue is. Valve already has a superior store front. Why do they give a shit about MS's own store front?

    The "wall" that is Windows 8's garden is just a chalk outline on the ground.

    It's not just a store. There's a new type of applications in Windows 8 that are run from the start screen and won't run at all on previous versions of Windows. And you can only distribute them through the Windows store. Microsoft introduced a new kind of Windows application that they 100% control the distribution of.

    So there's a little bit of fear that at some point in the future that will be the only kind of Windows application.

    It's only a matter of time before MS and Apple try to make every developer channel their software through their app stores - why not? That way, they get a cut off of everything sold just because they've plunked the OS on your computer! Why wouldn't they? App ecosystems for things like the iphone have thrived, so from a strategy/accounting perspective it seems like a way to generate more revenue by placing a tax on developers that customers don't directly feel.

    I don't see how Steam can divorce itself from OSX/Windows, though, because only some portion of the current userbase would be willing/able to follow Steam into linux, and you'd have a very hard time convincing 15 year olds to wheedle their parents into installing linux on a machine.

    kaliyama on
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    urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    Okay this is just for Steam Box. They aren't moving Steam to Linux-only.

    And they can EASILY tailor the User Interface to look exactly like the Big Picture Mode and still run on linux. Hell they could get it looking like the XB1's dashboard or the PS4 dashboard. The benefit of the Linux OS is that you can tailor it to however they want. You don't even need it to look like a standard "windows" machine. It could boot directly into steam, you select the game you want with a controller and voila! you are in and playing the game just as a standard gaming console.

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    lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    kaliyama wrote: »
    Peewi wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    It seems like the main thing pissing off Gabe is that Windows 8 has become kind of a walled garden itself. Want your game to run in the "main" notMetro screen? Gotta sell it via the Windows Store. That chafes. (Yes, I realize you can just have it run in Windows 7 desktop mode and pin a shortcut to notMetro, but that's not the best solution as far as developers are concerned.)

    But a Linux Steambox... given the fact that only true die-hards are familiar with it and most people hate having to learn something completely new, Valve is pretty much going to have to modify the hell out of the UI to make things simple and easy to use. Though that would make Steambox, for all intents and purposes, a dedicated console and direct competitor to the other consoles.

    This still makes zero sense to me. Ok, if you want to be in the "official" Windows 8 store, you gotta go through MS? Sure, I can see how that's kind of stupid.

    But... Steam runs on Windows 8. Flawlessly, from my experience.

    I just don't understand what the issue is. Valve already has a superior store front. Why do they give a shit about MS's own store front?

    The "wall" that is Windows 8's garden is just a chalk outline on the ground.

    It's not just a store. There's a new type of applications in Windows 8 that are run from the start screen and won't run at all on previous versions of Windows. And you can only distribute them through the Windows store. Microsoft introduced a new kind of Windows application that they 100% control the distribution of.

    So there's a little bit of fear that at some point in the future that will be the only kind of Windows application.

    It's only a matter of time before MS and Apple try to make every developer channel their software through their app stores - why not? That way, they get a cut off of everything sold just because they've plunked the OS on your computer! Why wouldn't they? App ecosystems for things like the iphone have thrived, so from a strategy/accounting perspective it seems like a way to generate more revenue by placing a tax on developers that customers don't directly feel.

    I don't see how Steam can divorce itself from OSX/Windows, though, because only some portion of the current userbase would be willing/able to follow Steam into linux, and you'd have a very hard time convincing 15 year olds to wheedle their parents into installing linux on a machine.

    The problem Steam will have divorcing itself from Windows is very similar to the problem MS will have divorcing itself from Window's legacy apps and moving to a 100% app store system.

    steam_sig.png
    (Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    Peewi wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    It seems like the main thing pissing off Gabe is that Windows 8 has become kind of a walled garden itself. Want your game to run in the "main" notMetro screen? Gotta sell it via the Windows Store. That chafes. (Yes, I realize you can just have it run in Windows 7 desktop mode and pin a shortcut to notMetro, but that's not the best solution as far as developers are concerned.)

    But a Linux Steambox... given the fact that only true die-hards are familiar with it and most people hate having to learn something completely new, Valve is pretty much going to have to modify the hell out of the UI to make things simple and easy to use. Though that would make Steambox, for all intents and purposes, a dedicated console and direct competitor to the other consoles.

    This still makes zero sense to me. Ok, if you want to be in the "official" Windows 8 store, you gotta go through MS? Sure, I can see how that's kind of stupid.

    But... Steam runs on Windows 8. Flawlessly, from my experience.

    I just don't understand what the issue is. Valve already has a superior store front. Why do they give a shit about MS's own store front?

    The "wall" that is Windows 8's garden is just a chalk outline on the ground.

    It's not just a store. There's a new type of applications in Windows 8 that are run from the start screen and won't run at all on previous versions of Windows. And you can only distribute them through the Windows store. Microsoft introduced a new kind of Windows application that they 100% control the distribution of.

    So there's a little bit of fear that at some point in the future that will be the only kind of Windows application.

    This - and the problem is that by combining the production with a Microsoft controlled store, it creates a very strange scenario for vendors. Suddenly they can't sell products for a platform (if not THE biggest platform).

    If MS had just created some new kind of application without a store, nothing would change.
    If MS had just created their own store but the software remained platform-open, nothing would change.

    By doing both, controlling the production AND distribution angle, it's burning a lot of people's asses and it will eventually mean not having new products to sell (in the long run, which is admittedly a long, long, long time coming, but imagine a world where Steam's software suite is all 5, 10+ years old, while MS is the only place on Windows 8 machines to get the new stuff).

    It's really, really cut-throat and kind of spits in the eye of businesswo/men that have helped sell Windows machines tangentially by having their thing on it and playing ball with MS.

    Henroid on
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    lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    I should really look through the app store on my dad's Yoga some day. I'm trying to imagine what the market for full screen only PC applications would be like but I just can't.

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    (Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
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    Drunken BastardDrunken Bastard Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Peewi wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    It seems like the main thing pissing off Gabe is that Windows 8 has become kind of a walled garden itself. Want your game to run in the "main" notMetro screen? Gotta sell it via the Windows Store. That chafes. (Yes, I realize you can just have it run in Windows 7 desktop mode and pin a shortcut to notMetro, but that's not the best solution as far as developers are concerned.)

    But a Linux Steambox... given the fact that only true die-hards are familiar with it and most people hate having to learn something completely new, Valve is pretty much going to have to modify the hell out of the UI to make things simple and easy to use. Though that would make Steambox, for all intents and purposes, a dedicated console and direct competitor to the other consoles.

    This still makes zero sense to me. Ok, if you want to be in the "official" Windows 8 store, you gotta go through MS? Sure, I can see how that's kind of stupid.

    But... Steam runs on Windows 8. Flawlessly, from my experience.

    I just don't understand what the issue is. Valve already has a superior store front. Why do they give a shit about MS's own store front?

    The "wall" that is Windows 8's garden is just a chalk outline on the ground.

    It's not just a store. There's a new type of applications in Windows 8 that are run from the start screen and won't run at all on previous versions of Windows. And you can only distribute them through the Windows store. Microsoft introduced a new kind of Windows application that they 100% control the distribution of.

    So there's a little bit of fear that at some point in the future that will be the only kind of Windows application.

    This - and the problem is that by combining the production with a Microsoft controlled store, it creates a very strange scenario for vendors. Suddenly they can't sell products for a platform (if not THE biggest platform).

    If MS had just created some new kind of application without a store, nothing would change.
    If MS had just created their own store but the software remained platform-open, nothing would change.

    By doing both, controlling the production AND distribution angle, it's burning a lot of people's asses and it will eventually mean not having new products to sell (in the long run, which is admittedly a long, long, long time coming, but imagine a world where Steam's software suite is all 5, 10+ years old, while MS is the only place on Windows 8 machines to get the new stuff).

    It's really, really cut-throat and kind of spits in the eye of businesswo/men that have helped sell Windows machines tangentially by having their thing on it and playing ball with MS.

    If that really came to pass even a die-hard Windows user like me would turn to Linux on his PC, use a virtual Win7 machine for my old Steam games and buy a PS5 (?) for new games.
    I really can't see that happening, unless MS wants to commit suicide.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    kaliyama wrote: »
    Peewi wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    It seems like the main thing pissing off Gabe is that Windows 8 has become kind of a walled garden itself. Want your game to run in the "main" notMetro screen? Gotta sell it via the Windows Store. That chafes. (Yes, I realize you can just have it run in Windows 7 desktop mode and pin a shortcut to notMetro, but that's not the best solution as far as developers are concerned.)

    But a Linux Steambox... given the fact that only true die-hards are familiar with it and most people hate having to learn something completely new, Valve is pretty much going to have to modify the hell out of the UI to make things simple and easy to use. Though that would make Steambox, for all intents and purposes, a dedicated console and direct competitor to the other consoles.

    This still makes zero sense to me. Ok, if you want to be in the "official" Windows 8 store, you gotta go through MS? Sure, I can see how that's kind of stupid.

    But... Steam runs on Windows 8. Flawlessly, from my experience.

    I just don't understand what the issue is. Valve already has a superior store front. Why do they give a shit about MS's own store front?

    The "wall" that is Windows 8's garden is just a chalk outline on the ground.

    It's not just a store. There's a new type of applications in Windows 8 that are run from the start screen and won't run at all on previous versions of Windows. And you can only distribute them through the Windows store. Microsoft introduced a new kind of Windows application that they 100% control the distribution of.

    So there's a little bit of fear that at some point in the future that will be the only kind of Windows application.

    It's only a matter of time before MS and Apple try to make every developer channel their software through their app stores - why not? That way, they get a cut off of everything sold just because they've plunked the OS on your computer! Why wouldn't they? App ecosystems for things like the iphone have thrived, so from a strategy/accounting perspective it seems like a way to generate more revenue by placing a tax on developers that customers don't directly feel.

    I don't see how Steam can divorce itself from OSX/Windows, though, because only some portion of the current userbase would be willing/able to follow Steam into linux, and you'd have a very hard time convincing 15 year olds to wheedle their parents into installing linux on a machine.

    Imagine if a city told grocery stores they were going to change the laws and the city was going to distribute groceries from here on, and all other vendors couldn't meet the requirements of the law.

    Sorry that was the best I could do for a food analogy.

    But basically MS is literally telling vendors to GTFO. This wouldn't be a problem on new kinds of hardware and such. Smartglass app stores and such are like... whatever. But we're talking about something (Operating Systems) that have a very, very established methodology to what kind of business people can do on them. MS is trying to turn the PC platform's support / policy / management to reflect the mobile hardware, which is dubious. It's not illegal, it's not outside of what MS could do, but I don't think anybody asked if they should. Right now their motivation seems to be, "Those guys get dollars distributing software on our platform. Those should be our dollars."

    And I mean that's not a wrong motivation, but it's... it's odd. I dunno. I know why MS is doing it and it's not unreasonable, but it is stupid and that stupidity is rooted in messing with the way things have been. A way that nobody has ever had any complaints about until now - and those complaints are coming from MS.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    The problem with thinking people will switch to Linux is that 90% of people don't install OSes. They just buy a computer and the computer comes with one.

    Specifically, it comes with Windows.

    Until Best Buy starts selling tons of laptops pre-installed with Linux, it ain't working.

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    urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    Christ people we aren't talking about desktop computers/laptops. He was talking about the Steambox.

    urahonky on
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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Morran wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    What is the current state of Linux gaming, out of curiosity? How many games are up for Steam's Linux division?

    not great, but not bad. 289 games, including all valves games, and a few pretty good others: ftl, mark of the ninja, fez, hotline Miami, don't starve, trine...

    For comparison the mac tab is 814

    steam_sig.png
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Peewi wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    It seems like the main thing pissing off Gabe is that Windows 8 has become kind of a walled garden itself. Want your game to run in the "main" notMetro screen? Gotta sell it via the Windows Store. That chafes. (Yes, I realize you can just have it run in Windows 7 desktop mode and pin a shortcut to notMetro, but that's not the best solution as far as developers are concerned.)

    But a Linux Steambox... given the fact that only true die-hards are familiar with it and most people hate having to learn something completely new, Valve is pretty much going to have to modify the hell out of the UI to make things simple and easy to use. Though that would make Steambox, for all intents and purposes, a dedicated console and direct competitor to the other consoles.

    This still makes zero sense to me. Ok, if you want to be in the "official" Windows 8 store, you gotta go through MS? Sure, I can see how that's kind of stupid.

    But... Steam runs on Windows 8. Flawlessly, from my experience.

    I just don't understand what the issue is. Valve already has a superior store front. Why do they give a shit about MS's own store front?

    The "wall" that is Windows 8's garden is just a chalk outline on the ground.

    It's not just a store. There's a new type of applications in Windows 8 that are run from the start screen and won't run at all on previous versions of Windows. And you can only distribute them through the Windows store. Microsoft introduced a new kind of Windows application that they 100% control the distribution of.

    So there's a little bit of fear that at some point in the future that will be the only kind of Windows application.

    This - and the problem is that by combining the production with a Microsoft controlled store, it creates a very strange scenario for vendors. Suddenly they can't sell products for a platform (if not THE biggest platform).

    If MS had just created some new kind of application without a store, nothing would change.
    If MS had just created their own store but the software remained platform-open, nothing would change.

    By doing both, controlling the production AND distribution angle, it's burning a lot of people's asses and it will eventually mean not having new products to sell (in the long run, which is admittedly a long, long, long time coming, but imagine a world where Steam's software suite is all 5, 10+ years old, while MS is the only place on Windows 8 machines to get the new stuff).

    It's really, really cut-throat and kind of spits in the eye of businesswo/men that have helped sell Windows machines tangentially by having their thing on it and playing ball with MS.

    If that really came to pass even a die-hard Windows user like me would turn to Linux on his PC, use a virtual Win7 machine for my old Steam games and buy a PS5 (?) for new games.
    I really can't see that happening, unless MS wants to commit suicide.

    It makes sense to an extent in the modern era of business though; they want to unify their platforms / brands under a single banner.

    But yeah this is why Linux support has been going on the rise. Granted it is slow as shit, but it's coming under heavy consideration. I dunno what sort of business dealings, if any, need to happen with Steam and other vendors on Apple computers. But I'm under the impression that Apple is doing what MS should be; they have their mobile app store, but they don't lock people out on the PC platform.

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    Snake GandhiSnake Gandhi Des Moines, IARegistered User regular
    edited September 2013
    The problem with the Steambox as a box running a custom Linux distro is that it pretty much becomes just another console. Without the ability to just play your current Steam collection on it (since most games outside Valve and indies don't work on Linux) they lose a big advantage they have and suddenly become competitors to MS and Sony.

    Snake Gandhi on
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    The problem with thinking people will switch to Linux is that 90% of people don't install OSes. They just buy a computer and the computer comes with one.

    Specifically, it comes with Windows.

    Until Best Buy starts selling tons of laptops pre-installed with Linux, it ain't working.

    That's the big hurdle right now. Linux developers have to sell hardware manufacturers to get on board.

    There's two ways it can happen (and it'd be best if both happened at once). First, vendors are the voice to promote this stuff. Like Valve getting Steam machines built. Second is actually rooted in watching Windows' software performance fail (if at all) - if that happens, the Linux devs need to convince hardware manufacturers that they can start moving their hardware better than Windows machines.

    This is very pie-in-the-sky but it certainly is something brewing. It'll either be a long hard road, or the whole thing will get crushed by blind consumerism and the vendors will actually start to bleed out.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    Christ people we aren't talking about desktop computers/laptops. He was talking about the Steambox.

    Well I mean, to be fair it helps to establish why the Steambox is something to exist. It's rooted in all this stuff (which IS business).

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    urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    The problem with the Steambox as a box running a custom Linux distro is that it pretty much becomes just another console. Without the ability to just play your current Steam collection on it (since most games outside Valve and indies don't work on Linux) they lose a big advantage they have and suddenly become competitors to MS and Sony.

    Okay but it's not like they lose out on the current Steam business model if/when they roll out the Steambox. And I think this is, hopefully, the push from a big guy (not a fat joke) that Linux needs to finally become used in the gaming world. I'd buy a Steambox right now even if it only meant I could play Big Picture Games. Maybe in 5-10 years Linux will start seeing some love from developers and it will become a viable "console" replacement. It's not going to be overnight. No one expects that.

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    Ov3rcharge wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    Monster Hunter 4 breaks 2 million sales in 4 days.


    No surprise there. I'm curious to see if 3DS sales also spiked.

    I'll bet Capcom still doesn't have any plans to localize it for America, because Capcom.

    Do we have the sales numbers on 3 ultimate? I'm curious to see how that's done on the 3DS and Wii U.
    I recall seeing they were pleasantly surprised with the WiiU numbers, but I can't find anything in the total sales.

    Last I heard, neither of them did all that great, but combined, Capcom was satisfied with their performance (given the typical reaction to the series overseas).

    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
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    DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    I wouldn't doubt that Valve is heavily pushing the publisher/developers that are on Steam to allow Valve to port the games to Steambox/Linux.

    Switch Friend Code: SW-6732-9515-9697
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