I know it's tedious for me to bring this up every time but I don't see how inflation is relevant for electronic goods. If anything it seems they suffer from deflation as devices become available at lower and lower price points.
Because I do think there is a bit of a ground floor for moderately new technology.
The core components of the PS4 and the XBO are less bleeding edge than what they launched with 7 years ago, but there are still rather substantial machines with lots of RAM, powerful processors, custom GPUs and in the case of the 360, a rather interesting 1080p stereo camera that also does low light, stereo audio and local processing. These price points (both 400 and 500 dollars) seem more than fair for what we are getting, and I am not entirely sure how either company can price these machines much lower without eating their R&D costs or continuing that unhealthy model of "loss leader"
syndalis on
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At the end of the day, Microsoft has a harder fight on their hands because they are the more expensive platform (though they are priced about the same as the 360 was, adjusted for inflation) and I expect for all manner of reasons that the PS4 will move more units at launch. But I think this generation will be every bit as close as the last one, because all of the crap about marginal power differences and day one patches and buggy features at launch are not going to matter in the 7 year cycle. If they did, Sony would have closed up shop in December of 2006 and not been as successful as they have been this past generation.
I've seen this brought up a few times by others but how do you suppose they're going to do this? They have zero chance of capturing Sony's strongholds (mainland Europe and Asia) and they're fighting to keep their home turf (NA and the UK). If they can't beat the PS4 just as badly as they did the PS3 in those countries then there's absolutely no chance of it being close. So I assume that's what you're predicting?
I know it's tedious for me to bring this up every time but I don't see how inflation is relevant for electronic goods. If anything it seems they suffer from deflation as devices become available at lower and lower price points.
Because I do think there is a bit of a ground floor for moderately new technology.
The core components of the PS4 and the XBO are less bleeding edge than what they launched with 7 years ago, but there are still rather substantial machines with lots of RAM, powerful processors, custom GPUs and in the case of the 360, a rather interesting 1080p stereo camera that also does low light, stereo audio and local processing. These price points (both 400 and 500 dollars) seem more than fair for what we are getting, and I am not entirely sure how either company can price these machines much lower without eating their R&D costs or continuing that unhealthy model of "loss leader"
Were the machines bleeding edge? I really can't remember back that far... I suppose they were somewhat better than PCs available at the time, but I remember the constant laughter at the amount of RAM included.
At the end of the day, Microsoft has a harder fight on their hands because they are the more expensive platform (though they are priced about the same as the 360 was, adjusted for inflation) and I expect for all manner of reasons that the PS4 will move more units at launch. But I think this generation will be every bit as close as the last one, because all of the crap about marginal power differences and day one patches and buggy features at launch are not going to matter in the 7 year cycle. If they did, Sony would have closed up shop in December of 2006 and not been as successful as they have been this past generation.
I've seen this brought up a few times by others but how do you suppose they're going to do this? They have zero chance of capturing Sony's strongholds (mainland Europe and Asia) and they're fighting to keep their home turf (NA and the UK). If they can't beat the PS4 just as badly as they did the PS3 in those countries then there's absolutely no chance of it being close. So I assume that's what you're predicting?
I am predicting that Microsoft, who has had trouble breaking into new markets (see phones, tablets, search engines), is going to defend the markets they have had success in about as strongly as humanly possible. I see them investing significant money into addressing any early problems, buying exclusive titles, and promoting the really fantastically good game lineup they have already put together.
The internet has more or less decided the PS4 as the winner months before the launch of either system, but I look at what games the two machines are launching with... and Microsoft is making a more compelling argument from an exclusive games perspective with Dead Rising, Forza, Crimson Dragon, Killer Instinct and Ryse (which keeps looking better in the trailers though I still have my worries). And next year is going to be great, with Titanfall, Quantum Break, Halo, Project Spark, Sunset Overdrive, Below and all of the other titles coming.
Its idiotic to make any predictions of who is going to win or lose this coming generation - but I see Microsoft having a successful platform with a lot of great games on it, yes, by defending the US and UK markets. Giving FIFA away for free with each XBO in Europe is a good start, and pushing the NFL partnership here can do wonders.
They will easily sit in a very close 2nd place at worst, Not that Nintendo made that very hard this generation or anything.
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+1
syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
I know it's tedious for me to bring this up every time but I don't see how inflation is relevant for electronic goods. If anything it seems they suffer from deflation as devices become available at lower and lower price points.
Because I do think there is a bit of a ground floor for moderately new technology.
The core components of the PS4 and the XBO are less bleeding edge than what they launched with 7 years ago, but there are still rather substantial machines with lots of RAM, powerful processors, custom GPUs and in the case of the 360, a rather interesting 1080p stereo camera that also does low light, stereo audio and local processing. These price points (both 400 and 500 dollars) seem more than fair for what we are getting, and I am not entirely sure how either company can price these machines much lower without eating their R&D costs or continuing that unhealthy model of "loss leader"
Were the machines bleeding edge? I really can't remember back that far... I suppose they were somewhat better than PCs available at the time, but I remember the constant laughter at the amount of RAM included.
What's amazing is that Microsoft wanted to launch with half the RAM, and Epic begged them to reconsider.
And Sony's 256/256 forced split (as opposed MS's unified 512) caused them all kinds of problems on multiplatform games, especially Bethesda's stuff.
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0
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited October 2013
I think that Microsoft have literally made their launch and entire lead up as utterly difficult as possible. It seems that they are still trailing in public (non-internet) based opinion as well, especially here in Australia where at many stores the PS4 is utterly sold out until next year at earliest but the Xbox One is readily available (EG EB Games). If the rumors about their launch turn out to be true I don't see them ever recovering from the sheer amount of negative messaging that has built up around their console.
The only thing Microsoft has managed to outdo Sony on with the next generation is how ridiculously bad they are at selling their console. Not even Sony in 2006 had this many problems.
The 360 and especially the PS3 were considered to be pretty powerful when they came out. Since the PS3 used to run linux, there were a lot of articles about organizations using them for (relatively) cheap compute clusters.
This is the first time I ever remember where a decent gaming PC is already faster than a brand new console before it comes out. I'm curious to see how it plays out.
Specially as more and more next gen footage comes out and is... disappointing? I've heard journalists also mention that the games look framey and not all that great either. I'm really wondering how long MS and Sony can continue to take a bath on their console divisions (sony their entire electronics division) before something gives.
0
ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
I think that Microsoft have literally made their launch and entire lead up as utterly difficult as possible. It seems that they are still trailing in public (non-internet) based opinion as well, especially here in Australia where at many stores the PS4 is utterly sold out until next year at earliest but the Xbox One is readily available (EG EB Games). If the rumors about their launch turn out to be true I don't see them ever recovering from the sheer amount of negative messaging that has built up around their console.
The only thing Microsoft has managed to outdo Sony on with the next generation is how ridiculously bad they are at selling their console. Not even Sony in 2006 had this many problems.
Alternatively:
With PS4s sold out everywhere, and Ones available, more and more people will buy them in the leadup to Christmas. And, should things go smoothly, the public talk will be "hey, this game system that you can buy is pretty fucking good."
Result: both systems sell out across the board. Which, if we're honest, is the most likely scenario anyway.
I think that Microsoft have literally made their launch and entire lead up as utterly difficult as possible. It seems that they are still trailing in public (non-internet) based opinion as well, especially here in Australia where at many stores the PS4 is utterly sold out until next year at earliest but the Xbox One is readily available (EG EB Games). If the rumors about their launch turn out to be true I don't see them ever recovering from the sheer amount of negative messaging that has built up around their console.
The only thing Microsoft has managed to outdo Sony on with the next generation is how ridiculously bad they are at selling their console. Not even Sony in 2006 had this many problems.
Alternatively:
With PS4s sold out everywhere, and Ones available, more and more people will buy them in the leadup to Christmas. And, should things go smoothly, the public talk will be "hey, this game system that you can buy is pretty fucking good."
Result: both systems sell out across the board. Which, if we're honest, is the most likely scenario anyway.
that relies on a fairly large majority of people existing who go to the shops to buy "a next gen console" and don't care which one
do you think there are many of such people? I really, really, don't.
0
ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
I think that Microsoft have literally made their launch and entire lead up as utterly difficult as possible. It seems that they are still trailing in public (non-internet) based opinion as well, especially here in Australia where at many stores the PS4 is utterly sold out until next year at earliest but the Xbox One is readily available (EG EB Games). If the rumors about their launch turn out to be true I don't see them ever recovering from the sheer amount of negative messaging that has built up around their console.
The only thing Microsoft has managed to outdo Sony on with the next generation is how ridiculously bad they are at selling their console. Not even Sony in 2006 had this many problems.
Alternatively:
With PS4s sold out everywhere, and Ones available, more and more people will buy them in the leadup to Christmas. And, should things go smoothly, the public talk will be "hey, this game system that you can buy is pretty fucking good."
Result: both systems sell out across the board. Which, if we're honest, is the most likely scenario anyway.
that relies on a fairly large majority of people existing who go to the shops to buy "a next gen console" and don't care which one
do you think there are many of such people? I really, really, don't.
You underestimate the desire of parents to make their children happy/quiet when the New Hotness is available for Christmas.
I think that Microsoft have literally made their launch and entire lead up as utterly difficult as possible. It seems that they are still trailing in public (non-internet) based opinion as well, especially here in Australia where at many stores the PS4 is utterly sold out until next year at earliest but the Xbox One is readily available (EG EB Games). If the rumors about their launch turn out to be true I don't see them ever recovering from the sheer amount of negative messaging that has built up around their console.
The only thing Microsoft has managed to outdo Sony on with the next generation is how ridiculously bad they are at selling their console. Not even Sony in 2006 had this many problems.
Alternatively:
With PS4s sold out everywhere, and Ones available, more and more people will buy them in the leadup to Christmas. And, should things go smoothly, the public talk will be "hey, this game system that you can buy is pretty fucking good."
Result: both systems sell out across the board. Which, if we're honest, is the most likely scenario anyway.
that relies on a fairly large majority of people existing who go to the shops to buy "a next gen console" and don't care which one
do you think there are many of such people? I really, really, don't.
Yup.
I think there are a number of people without brand loyalty, per se, who want to play the next Call of Duty, Madden or Battlefield, and will buy the box that lets them do that.
And if we are taking unsubstantiated comments from verified industry people to heart in here, a guy on the xbox team at Microsoft said they are absolutely keeping pace with the PS4 for preorders, and not to take any rumors or hearsay regarding current sales into account.
At the end of the day, Microsoft has a harder fight on their hands because they are the more expensive platform (though they are priced about the same as the 360 was, adjusted for inflation) and I expect for all manner of reasons that the PS4 will move more units at launch. But I think this generation will be every bit as close as the last one, because all of the crap about marginal power differences and day one patches and buggy features at launch are not going to matter in the 7 year cycle. If they did, Sony would have closed up shop in December of 2006 and not been as successful as they have been this past generation.
I've seen this brought up a few times by others but how do you suppose they're going to do this? They have zero chance of capturing Sony's strongholds (mainland Europe and Asia) and they're fighting to keep their home turf (NA and the UK). If they can't beat the PS4 just as badly as they did the PS3 in those countries then there's absolutely no chance of it being close. So I assume that's what you're predicting?
I am predicting that Microsoft, who has had trouble breaking into new markets (see phones, tablets, search engines), is going to defend the markets they have had success in about as strongly as humanly possible. I see them investing significant money into addressing any early problems, buying exclusive titles, and promoting the really fantastically good game lineup they have already put together.
The internet has more or less decided the PS4 as the winner months before the launch of either system, but I look at what games the two machines are launching with... and Microsoft is making a more compelling argument from an exclusive games perspective with Dead Rising, Forza, Crimson Dragon, Killer Instinct and Ryse (which keeps looking better in the trailers though I still have my worries). And next year is going to be great, with Titanfall, Quantum Break, Halo, Project Spark, Sunset Overdrive, Below and all of the other titles coming.
Its idiotic to make any predictions of who is going to win or lose this coming generation - but I see Microsoft having a successful platform with a lot of great games on it, yes, by defending the US and UK markets. Giving FIFA away for free with each XBO in Europe is a good start, and pushing the NFL partnership here can do wonders.
They will easily sit in a very close 2nd place at worst, Not that Nintendo made that very hard this generation or anything.
Easier said than done. The PS2 was the most successful console in history and yet it didn't find that so easy. Once Microsoft had picked up enough momentum in the US and UK, there was no possible way of catching up with them there and they had to rely on other markets where they were stronger to make up the gap. Right now, Sony have all the momentum and unless they make some really stupid mistakes, I can't see that changing any time soon.
And I'm not going to reply to your list wars. I see that list and shrug, you see that list and jump with joy. Opinions.
I think that Microsoft have literally made their launch and entire lead up as utterly difficult as possible. It seems that they are still trailing in public (non-internet) based opinion as well, especially here in Australia where at many stores the PS4 is utterly sold out until next year at earliest but the Xbox One is readily available (EG EB Games). If the rumors about their launch turn out to be true I don't see them ever recovering from the sheer amount of negative messaging that has built up around their console.
The only thing Microsoft has managed to outdo Sony on with the next generation is how ridiculously bad they are at selling their console. Not even Sony in 2006 had this many problems.
Alternatively:
With PS4s sold out everywhere, and Ones available, more and more people will buy them in the leadup to Christmas. And, should things go smoothly, the public talk will be "hey, this game system that you can buy is pretty fucking good."
Result: both systems sell out across the board. Which, if we're honest, is the most likely scenario anyway.
Well that's an incredibly optimistic take on things.
syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
I am constantly surprised by people who don't think, for at least the first few months, that every PS4 and XBO are going to be sold in the major markets.
there is more than enough demand for both systems, and the marketing beast hasn't even really taken off yet.
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+2
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I don't think the parents of little Johnny are going to come home with an Xbox One/PS4 when little johnny asked for the other one.
I think that Microsoft have literally made their launch and entire lead up as utterly difficult as possible. It seems that they are still trailing in public (non-internet) based opinion as well, especially here in Australia where at many stores the PS4 is utterly sold out until next year at earliest but the Xbox One is readily available (EG EB Games). If the rumors about their launch turn out to be true I don't see them ever recovering from the sheer amount of negative messaging that has built up around their console.
The only thing Microsoft has managed to outdo Sony on with the next generation is how ridiculously bad they are at selling their console. Not even Sony in 2006 had this many problems.
Alternatively:
With PS4s sold out everywhere, and Ones available, more and more people will buy them in the leadup to Christmas. And, should things go smoothly, the public talk will be "hey, this game system that you can buy is pretty fucking good."
Result: both systems sell out across the board. Which, if we're honest, is the most likely scenario anyway.
that relies on a fairly large majority of people existing who go to the shops to buy "a next gen console" and don't care which one
do you think there are many of such people? I really, really, don't.
Yup.
I think there are a number of people without brand loyalty, per se, who want to play the next Call of Duty, Madden or Battlefield, and will buy the box that lets them do that.
They don't have to buy anything to play those games since they all are coming out on PS360.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
0
syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
I think that Microsoft have literally made their launch and entire lead up as utterly difficult as possible. It seems that they are still trailing in public (non-internet) based opinion as well, especially here in Australia where at many stores the PS4 is utterly sold out until next year at earliest but the Xbox One is readily available (EG EB Games). If the rumors about their launch turn out to be true I don't see them ever recovering from the sheer amount of negative messaging that has built up around their console.
The only thing Microsoft has managed to outdo Sony on with the next generation is how ridiculously bad they are at selling their console. Not even Sony in 2006 had this many problems.
Alternatively:
With PS4s sold out everywhere, and Ones available, more and more people will buy them in the leadup to Christmas. And, should things go smoothly, the public talk will be "hey, this game system that you can buy is pretty fucking good."
Result: both systems sell out across the board. Which, if we're honest, is the most likely scenario anyway.
that relies on a fairly large majority of people existing who go to the shops to buy "a next gen console" and don't care which one
do you think there are many of such people? I really, really, don't.
Yup.
I think there are a number of people without brand loyalty, per se, who want to play the next Call of Duty, Madden or Battlefield, and will buy the box that lets them do that.
They don't have to buy anything to play those games since they all are coming out on PS360.
And people don't need to buy new Galaxys or iPhones to make phone calls and play angry birds, and yet...
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
This is the first time I ever remember where a decent gaming PC is already faster than a brand new console before it comes out. I'm curious to see how it plays out.
Specially as more and more next gen footage comes out and is... disappointing? I've heard journalists also mention that the games look framey and not all that great either. I'm really wondering how long MS and Sony can continue to take a bath on their console divisions (sony their entire electronics division) before something gives.
You must be young or I'm misremembering, but I remember 386sx (32bit) playing wing commander verses Streets of rage II on Megadrive (16bit) as pretty definitive proof that PC were more powerful than consoles even in the 90s.
386s were first sold in 1986 Megadrive/Genesis in 88/89 I think.
Bastable on
Philippe about the tactical deployment of german Kradschützen during the battle of Kursk:
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
0
ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
I don't think the parents of little Johnny are going to come home with an Xbox One/PS4 when little johnny asked for the other one.
Not on purpose, but when the salesperson needs the sale, they'll sell whichever one they have in stock. I really don't see this as the PS3 all over again, at least not yet.
I am constantly surprised by people who don't think, for at least the first few months, that every PS4 and XBO are going to be sold in the major markets.
there is more than enough demand for both systems, and the marketing beast hasn't even really taken off yet.
Possibly because of the fact in my market the Xbone isn't selling out at all and that this is as easy to observe as walking 10 minutes to a large EB games in the middle of the CBD? Because that's the actual situation here and what my experience is. I could walk to any number of stores right now and get an Xbone easily and I live in Sydney, which is not a small irrelevant place lacking in choice of gaming stores.
On the other hand, I am completely shit out of luck if I wanted a PS4 and I am increasingly beginning to regret my decision to cancel my PS4 preorder now.
I don't think the parents of little Johnny are going to come home with an Xbox One/PS4 when little johnny asked for the other one.
Not on purpose, but when the salesperson needs the sale, they'll sell whichever one they have in stock. I really don't see this as the PS3 all over again, at least not yet.
You are correct though, because actually I was in my regular friendly gaming store talking about this today (people are scalping PS4 preorders, not consoles, but the preorders here and we were talking about that) and someone came in wanting the "next PS". She was told that it would be coming out next year, but he did make a valiant effort to sell her a Xbone.
But as someone else pointed out, when little Johnny wants a PS4, she doesn't buy the Xbone: She tries another method to get the PS4. That's exactly what she went to try and do. She could give up of course, because finding a PS4 is like pulling teeth here, but I am sure there will be somewhere she could get one if she's determined enough. But I don't believe that people failing to get what they want will just buy the more expensive thing they don't want because it's in stock.
Same situation in Aus as it is here, I'm guessing? Every store has Day One Edition Xbone's to sell but the earliest they can guarantee new PS4 stock is Early 2014?
I honestly don't think they'll sell out like people are assuming they will. I fully expect a PS4 or XBox One to be in most shops the majority of the time throughout the holidays and available for purchase. I just feel like Sony has been cranking these things out since July and will have massive stock readily available while MS has half the numbers as well as half the demand (and half the resolution ohhhhh!). Not a good combo.
+10
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I honestly don't think they'll sell out like people are assuming they will. I fully expect a PS4 or XBox One to be in most shops the majority of the time throughout the holidays and available for purchase. I just feel like Sony has been cranking these things out since July and will have massive stock readily available while MS has half the numbers as well as half the demand (and half the resolution ohhhhh!). Not a good combo.
ZING!
But in fairness I think it will probably be possible to get both, but I do think getting a PS4 outside of the bastards scalping it on Ebay may be difficult until early next year in places. I am intending to buy a PS4 when Watch Dogs comes out, so I have plenty of time to hopefully get one but I might be tempted to preorder it just in case. I am suspecting that my wife could buy an Xbone though, as she has not developed a favourable impression of the PS3 to say the least. I would have every confidence of her being easily able to do that at Christmas without needing a preorder if she wanted.
The internet has more or less decided the PS4 as the winner months before the launch of either system, but I look at what games the two machines are launching with...
This has been pointed out to you before, but "The internet" didn't decide shit.
People putting actual money behind actual consoles did.
Don't forget that.
List warz stuff featuring Below
Below has been confirmed to not remain exclusive. Not that I put any stock in list wars because everything I really want is multiplatform, but it's worth noting that several "exclusives" are "exclusive" in the most loose sense of the word.
GAF is back up and Crazy Buttocks has reappeared, saying that Snap is broken, connectivity is broken and party system is broken on Xbox One. Snap will probably be fixed before launch, last two might be. So more fuel to the fire.
According to GAF there will be video comparisons of the PS4 and Xbox One versions of BF4 in 4 hours. Seems Jackfrags will provide that.
The name rings a bell. Is he the same guy that hinted that the PS4 multiplayer footage looks better than the Xbone single player footage? If I had the patience, I'd camp on GAF and watch the fallout but I'm fine with seeing the aftermath later on.
I think the whole thing is overblown, and the only numbers that will really matter to most consumers is the $100 one
Power and slight resolution differences haven't bothered anyone ever, so I don't see it starting now in the land of diminishing returns. The 100 dollars will almost certainly cause PS4 sales to be higher for the foreseeable future, given the utter dearth of any first party content worth playing for both manufacturers.
If Microsoft can manage to lock up Titanfall for 3 years, they'd certainly help their case.
I mostly just can't believe BF4 is running at <1080p @ 30fps on both consoles. That's really disappointing for the future
The posts on the BF4 comparison are pretty funny. "Am I high, or does the Xbox look better?" is my current fav. There are a lot of confused console warriors who were sorely let down when one platform wasn't 1080p and the other was 360p.
I have to say, I don't care for the look of the game at all from what I've seen posted. I know it has all those bells and whistles, graphically, but I also know while playing I won't give a damn about self shadowing on my AK-74.
I think the whole thing is overblown, and the only numbers that will really matter to most consumers is the $100 one
I think exposure will matter too. And word of mouth. Ever since I got back to California I've noticed a trend with friends of old; they don't follow video game news really, but they get their information from other people like all of us that do. If all those people are talking about PS4 games and nothing for the XB1 (since there's an embargo apparently) then the dollars will sway a particular way on that alone.
... but yeah that $100 sure is going to make a difference on its own I think.
I mostly just can't believe BF4 is running at <1080p @ 30fps on both consoles. That's really disappointing for the future
900p at unlocked 60fps if I was reading the article right.
It still doesn't touch the PC version. Though DICE's engine is CPU heavy which is the weaker part of both consoles when compared to modern computers.
Most of what I've heard from impressions playing the games is that any of the "unlocked 60" games are usually running much closer to 30 than 60 most of the time, and still look fairly framey because of judder.
0
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited October 2013
Eh, BF4 running at that resolution on the new consoles doesn't surprise or bother me. Most of the effort for it would've been spent on the old consoles (where DICE has more experience) and PCs (where DICE can get away with being kinda crappy at optimizing), and throwing extra effort at the newer, small-audience consoles wouldn't have been that great a decision.
On the upside, this sort of thing further reaffirms my decision to simply buy a nice, new, high-end video card that will put my system more or less on par with what the new systems will have for quite a while, and for a whole helluva lot cheaper than a new console. I'm more lax than many about how a game looks on my PC, but a new card will keep me plenty current with running 1920x1080 games at great framerates for some time, especially if higher RAM finally gets to starts leveraged since the console upgrades will finally not being holding back hardware constraints so much.
I mostly just can't believe BF4 is running at <1080p @ 30fps on both consoles. That's really disappointing for the future
900p at unlocked 60fps if I was reading the article right.
It still doesn't touch the PC version. Though DICE's engine is CPU heavy which is the weaker part of both consoles when compared to modern computers.
Most of what I've heard from impressions playing the games is that any of the "unlocked 60" games are usually running much closer to 30 than 60 most of the time, and still look fairly framey because of judder.
Digital Foundry did a frame rate test of both versions.
There is no discernible difference between the two. Or at least, no difference that will matter while you are playing the game.
So yeah. this is the PS3/360 story all over again. PS3 more powerful, but it rarely translated into a better experience.
Incredibly and premature weak claim, considering this is basically a day-one experience we're talking about here and neither system has its power being decently leveraged; they're essentially running last-gen games with some extra power and shinies, and little else.
Not to mention that the "theoretical" extra power of the PS4 has nothing to do with the potential ability of a largely-untried and untouched chip type. We're now talking what is a powerful, standardized chipset which is phenomenally easier to develop for, and has legit, significant power advantages over the Xbone.
Come back in a couple years and you may have a solid basis for that statement, but right now? You're just plain making it up. I know you carry bucketloads of water for the Xbone, but cripes.
I mostly just can't believe BF4 is running at <1080p @ 30fps on both consoles. That's really disappointing for the future
900p at unlocked 60fps if I was reading the article right.
It still doesn't touch the PC version. Though DICE's engine is CPU heavy which is the weaker part of both consoles when compared to modern computers.
Most of what I've heard from impressions playing the games is that any of the "unlocked 60" games are usually running much closer to 30 than 60 most of the time, and still look fairly framey because of judder.
Digital Foundry did a frame rate test of both versions.
Posts
Because I do think there is a bit of a ground floor for moderately new technology.
The core components of the PS4 and the XBO are less bleeding edge than what they launched with 7 years ago, but there are still rather substantial machines with lots of RAM, powerful processors, custom GPUs and in the case of the 360, a rather interesting 1080p stereo camera that also does low light, stereo audio and local processing. These price points (both 400 and 500 dollars) seem more than fair for what we are getting, and I am not entirely sure how either company can price these machines much lower without eating their R&D costs or continuing that unhealthy model of "loss leader"
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I've seen this brought up a few times by others but how do you suppose they're going to do this? They have zero chance of capturing Sony's strongholds (mainland Europe and Asia) and they're fighting to keep their home turf (NA and the UK). If they can't beat the PS4 just as badly as they did the PS3 in those countries then there's absolutely no chance of it being close. So I assume that's what you're predicting?
Were the machines bleeding edge? I really can't remember back that far... I suppose they were somewhat better than PCs available at the time, but I remember the constant laughter at the amount of RAM included.
It's a proven business model that only Nintendo seems willing to flout when it comes to a platform like this.
I'm sure they've done plenty of research and determined that the loss in sales from selling them at cost just isn't worth it.
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I am predicting that Microsoft, who has had trouble breaking into new markets (see phones, tablets, search engines), is going to defend the markets they have had success in about as strongly as humanly possible. I see them investing significant money into addressing any early problems, buying exclusive titles, and promoting the really fantastically good game lineup they have already put together.
The internet has more or less decided the PS4 as the winner months before the launch of either system, but I look at what games the two machines are launching with... and Microsoft is making a more compelling argument from an exclusive games perspective with Dead Rising, Forza, Crimson Dragon, Killer Instinct and Ryse (which keeps looking better in the trailers though I still have my worries). And next year is going to be great, with Titanfall, Quantum Break, Halo, Project Spark, Sunset Overdrive, Below and all of the other titles coming.
Its idiotic to make any predictions of who is going to win or lose this coming generation - but I see Microsoft having a successful platform with a lot of great games on it, yes, by defending the US and UK markets. Giving FIFA away for free with each XBO in Europe is a good start, and pushing the NFL partnership here can do wonders.
They will easily sit in a very close 2nd place at worst, Not that Nintendo made that very hard this generation or anything.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
What's amazing is that Microsoft wanted to launch with half the RAM, and Epic begged them to reconsider.
And Sony's 256/256 forced split (as opposed MS's unified 512) caused them all kinds of problems on multiplatform games, especially Bethesda's stuff.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
The only thing Microsoft has managed to outdo Sony on with the next generation is how ridiculously bad they are at selling their console. Not even Sony in 2006 had this many problems.
Specially as more and more next gen footage comes out and is... disappointing? I've heard journalists also mention that the games look framey and not all that great either. I'm really wondering how long MS and Sony can continue to take a bath on their console divisions (sony their entire electronics division) before something gives.
Alternatively:
With PS4s sold out everywhere, and Ones available, more and more people will buy them in the leadup to Christmas. And, should things go smoothly, the public talk will be "hey, this game system that you can buy is pretty fucking good."
Result: both systems sell out across the board. Which, if we're honest, is the most likely scenario anyway.
that relies on a fairly large majority of people existing who go to the shops to buy "a next gen console" and don't care which one
do you think there are many of such people? I really, really, don't.
You underestimate the desire of parents to make their children happy/quiet when the New Hotness is available for Christmas.
Yup.
I think there are a number of people without brand loyalty, per se, who want to play the next Call of Duty, Madden or Battlefield, and will buy the box that lets them do that.
And if we are taking unsubstantiated comments from verified industry people to heart in here, a guy on the xbox team at Microsoft said they are absolutely keeping pace with the PS4 for preorders, and not to take any rumors or hearsay regarding current sales into account.
http://www.craveonline.com/gaming/articles/590549-microsoft-xbox-one-has-as-many-pre-order-sales-as-ps4
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Easier said than done. The PS2 was the most successful console in history and yet it didn't find that so easy. Once Microsoft had picked up enough momentum in the US and UK, there was no possible way of catching up with them there and they had to rely on other markets where they were stronger to make up the gap. Right now, Sony have all the momentum and unless they make some really stupid mistakes, I can't see that changing any time soon.
And I'm not going to reply to your list wars. I see that list and shrug, you see that list and jump with joy. Opinions.
How many people will even buy either system before they both start manufacturing them within Brazil and immediately dropping the price enormously?
Well that's an incredibly optimistic take on things.
there is more than enough demand for both systems, and the marketing beast hasn't even really taken off yet.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
They don't have to buy anything to play those games since they all are coming out on PS360.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
And people don't need to buy new Galaxys or iPhones to make phone calls and play angry birds, and yet...
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
386s were first sold in 1986 Megadrive/Genesis in 88/89 I think.
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
Not on purpose, but when the salesperson needs the sale, they'll sell whichever one they have in stock. I really don't see this as the PS3 all over again, at least not yet.
Possibly because of the fact in my market the Xbone isn't selling out at all and that this is as easy to observe as walking 10 minutes to a large EB games in the middle of the CBD? Because that's the actual situation here and what my experience is. I could walk to any number of stores right now and get an Xbone easily and I live in Sydney, which is not a small irrelevant place lacking in choice of gaming stores.
On the other hand, I am completely shit out of luck if I wanted a PS4 and I am increasingly beginning to regret my decision to cancel my PS4 preorder now.
You are correct though, because actually I was in my regular friendly gaming store talking about this today (people are scalping PS4 preorders, not consoles, but the preorders here and we were talking about that) and someone came in wanting the "next PS". She was told that it would be coming out next year, but he did make a valiant effort to sell her a Xbone.
But as someone else pointed out, when little Johnny wants a PS4, she doesn't buy the Xbone: She tries another method to get the PS4. That's exactly what she went to try and do. She could give up of course, because finding a PS4 is like pulling teeth here, but I am sure there will be somewhere she could get one if she's determined enough. But I don't believe that people failing to get what they want will just buy the more expensive thing they don't want because it's in stock.
ZING!
But in fairness I think it will probably be possible to get both, but I do think getting a PS4 outside of the bastards scalping it on Ebay may be difficult until early next year in places. I am intending to buy a PS4 when Watch Dogs comes out, so I have plenty of time to hopefully get one but I might be tempted to preorder it just in case. I am suspecting that my wife could buy an Xbone though, as she has not developed a favourable impression of the PS3 to say the least. I would have every confidence of her being easily able to do that at Christmas without needing a preorder if she wanted.
This has been pointed out to you before, but "The internet" didn't decide shit.
People putting actual money behind actual consoles did.
Don't forget that.
Below has been confirmed to not remain exclusive. Not that I put any stock in list wars because everything I really want is multiplatform, but it's worth noting that several "exclusives" are "exclusive" in the most loose sense of the word.
Yup. He went to DICE to record footage last week.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Power and slight resolution differences haven't bothered anyone ever, so I don't see it starting now in the land of diminishing returns. The 100 dollars will almost certainly cause PS4 sales to be higher for the foreseeable future, given the utter dearth of any first party content worth playing for both manufacturers.
If Microsoft can manage to lock up Titanfall for 3 years, they'd certainly help their case.
I mostly just can't believe BF4 is running at <1080p @ 30fps on both consoles. That's really disappointing for the future
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
The posts on the BF4 comparison are pretty funny. "Am I high, or does the Xbox look better?" is my current fav. There are a lot of confused console warriors who were sorely let down when one platform wasn't 1080p and the other was 360p.
I have to say, I don't care for the look of the game at all from what I've seen posted. I know it has all those bells and whistles, graphically, but I also know while playing I won't give a damn about self shadowing on my AK-74.
900p at unlocked 60fps if I was reading the article right.
It still doesn't touch the PC version. Though DICE's engine is CPU heavy which is the weaker part of both consoles when compared to modern computers.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
I think exposure will matter too. And word of mouth. Ever since I got back to California I've noticed a trend with friends of old; they don't follow video game news really, but they get their information from other people like all of us that do. If all those people are talking about PS4 games and nothing for the XB1 (since there's an embargo apparently) then the dollars will sway a particular way on that alone.
... but yeah that $100 sure is going to make a difference on its own I think.
Most of what I've heard from impressions playing the games is that any of the "unlocked 60" games are usually running much closer to 30 than 60 most of the time, and still look fairly framey because of judder.
On the upside, this sort of thing further reaffirms my decision to simply buy a nice, new, high-end video card that will put my system more or less on par with what the new systems will have for quite a while, and for a whole helluva lot cheaper than a new console. I'm more lax than many about how a game looks on my PC, but a new card will keep me plenty current with running 1920x1080 games at great framerates for some time, especially if higher RAM finally gets to starts leveraged since the console upgrades will finally not being holding back hardware constraints so much.
Both run at a pretty solid 60 with the occasional dip but usually into the 50's and never lower than 38 that I saw.
So yeah. this is the PS3/360 story all over again. PS3 more powerful, but it rarely translated into a better experience.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Incredibly and premature weak claim, considering this is basically a day-one experience we're talking about here and neither system has its power being decently leveraged; they're essentially running last-gen games with some extra power and shinies, and little else.
Not to mention that the "theoretical" extra power of the PS4 has nothing to do with the potential ability of a largely-untried and untouched chip type. We're now talking what is a powerful, standardized chipset which is phenomenally easier to develop for, and has legit, significant power advantages over the Xbone.
Come back in a couple years and you may have a solid basis for that statement, but right now? You're just plain making it up. I know you carry bucketloads of water for the Xbone, but cripes.
So basically they look almost exactly the same
Whoopdeedo
I tried looking around for some news but didn't spot anything that was really thought-provoking.