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yet another game design question

CalicaCalica Registered User regular
I'm a programmer who has occasional ideas for games I'd like to make, or at least tool around with in my spare time. I don't care if I get published and I'm not looking to make any money at this. What I'm wondering is this: are there any good resources on the nuts and bolts of designing and balancing complex systems? Googling "game system design" and similar turns up a lot of designers answering the question, "How do you design games/systems/puzzles?" with, essentially, "Well, I just... you know... design them."

People have been making computer games for decades, and other kinds of games for much longer. Is there a way to access all that accumulated wisdom without having to reinvent calculus by myself?

Posts

  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    Probably the best thing for high level concept that is free and readily available are the Extra Credits videos: http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/show/extra-credits

    A quick google search of "how to design puzzles" pulled up about 20 resources with specific types of gameplay and game designs.

    Aside from high level concept, understanding usability is probably the next most important thing when it comes to design. How your player will work and play with the objects you give them. A general design book like The Design of Everyday Things can start this sort of discussion, but really trail and error is a decent bit of puzzle design if you are wanting to make something unique.

  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    Also

    Practice. You have to try and fail a lot to get to the good stuff. Its from the things that don't work that you can start to figure out what does work. I know this sounds like a 'just design them' comment, but its more of a 'you shouldn't expect yourself to have perfect design from the get go and its more valuable to be getting things wrong while doing it than trying to figure out good design and not doing it' comment. Which is a bit of a mouthful. :)

    Wassermelone on
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    if you have a sufficient programming background then the methodologies to create basic game system should become self evident with practice and time

    at the tutorial level there's only so much you can learn that is beyond what you'll figure out anyway

    do it just like you would do anything else: try it yourself, and if it sucks, figure out how to do it better next time

    and prepare to make about two dozen game demos before finally nailing it

    this is a discord of mostly PA people interested in fighting games: https://discord.gg/DZWa97d5rz

    we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    So... if you flail around enough, do you just get a "feel" for it eventually? I tend to approach things from a birds-eye perspective, so not even knowing where to start is more than a little intimidating... but if that's how you do it, then that's how you do it, I guess :)
    Jasconius wrote: »
    if you have a sufficient programming background then the methodologies to create basic game system should become self evident with practice and time
    I'm talking about design, though, not implementation. The kind that's completely independent of computering.

  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    So... if you flail around enough, do you just get a "feel" for it eventually? I tend to approach things from a birds-eye perspective, so not even knowing where to start is more than a little intimidating... but if that's how you do it, then that's how you do it, I guess :)
    Jasconius wrote: »
    if you have a sufficient programming background then the methodologies to create basic game system should become self evident with practice and time
    I'm talking about design, though, not implementation. The kind that's completely independent of computering.

    game "design" is overrated at this level


    just model on existing concepts, and make changes where you think there is more fun to be found

    Listen to and/or read the thought processes of John Carmack when creating the original Wolfenstein 3D

    hardly what would be considered a "formal" game design process, but still thoughtful

    this is a discord of mostly PA people interested in fighting games: https://discord.gg/DZWa97d5rz

    we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
  • grouch993grouch993 Both a man and a numberRegistered User regular
    Are you trying to tell a story? Allowing cool toys and puzzles to be solved? Want the players to follow a scripted path or move at their own pace?

    Try and figure out a few descriptive sentences for what your game will be. Then sit back and think about those and what you had planned for game play. Unless you have a pretty firm notion of what you wanted to do, there will probably be a few changes on your design as you go.

    Be sure and save ideas, sketches, code fragments for bits that don't fit. You may revisit those later and make them parts of other games or outright titles themselves. (See Valve and what became Portal).

    Look over what you have and see if it is fun or tedious. If you have a group that you trust, describe things to them and see what they have to offer.

    Steam Profile Origin grouchiy
  • RyeRye Registered User regular
    You really have to dig deep and think about what you can do for a game. If you have little art experience, you probably don't want to lean heavily on art. If you're a terrible writer, don't set out to tell a dialog driven story. On the reverse side, if you feel you have a strong grasp of flocking dynamics, maybe you make a game that leans heavily on crowd sims and that kind of interactivity. Are you a great at doing heavy front end / UI programming? Maybe you make a game that's mostly menus (FTL, or trading card games for example).

    What are you good at / have experience with in programming? I mean this seriously - every programmer has some aspect of their professional life they can leverage into recreational programming. My brother is a lead programmer for a bank's checking software website, but it's his expertise in javascript and network programming that lets him doodle game ideas for multiplayer browser based tetris-esque games.

    I'm not against coming up with a cool game idea first, but I find it's easier to explore a space where you're confident and see if a game idea doesn't come to you. You have to foster that confidence. I'm an artist with basic programming skills, so I set out to make a fucking pretty game with simple mechanics. Don't start an uphill battle.

  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    @Rye - good point, thanks! It's an aspect of the question I hadn't really considered :)

    Most of my experience is in web development using ASP Classic and some .NET. I've written some non-web stuff in C#, mostly simple tools to make my life easier at work. (I prefer C#; we just don't use it for much... yet.) I'm also a fairly decent writer, if I do say so myself :P

    I guess my plan for now is to write user stories, and also to play around with very basic touch input stuff on the iPad (totally different thing, but fascinating!).

    Calica on
  • Pi-r8Pi-r8 Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    What I'm wondering is this: are there any good resources on the nuts and bolts of designing and balancing complex systems? Googling "game system design" and similar turns up a lot of ?
    I think the easiest and most common answer is just to do testing, and then make changes to the game based on what comes up. There's a reason so many games have open betas: no matter how smart you are, you can't possibly predict everything that a million dedicated gamers will think up.

  • Grey PaladinGrey Paladin Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    You can learn anything by trial and error, but the idea that this is the best way to do so is perpetuated by amateurs. The lack of quality literature on formal game design is a known problem but there are still a few sources that can help you a great deal. If you are absolutely new, The Art of Game Design: A book of lenses is a decent if a bit cargo cultish introduction. As an experienced programmer you will probably find the chapters discussing programming boring, but the rest should be useful.

    To design a game you need to synthesize a theory of fun which you can use to gauge the value of a given mechanic. Outlined below are two popular schools of thought you can use as a starting point.

    Luke Crane wrote that game design is mind control, and I wouldn't say he is that far off. Fundamentally, a game is an interactive experience which causes the player to do what the designer intended them to do and feel what the designer intended them to feel. Bottled emotion. The designer's role is to manipulate the player into behaving and feeling as they please. Under this paradigm, you are supposed to think of the experience you wish to convey and then shape mechanics that create that experience. Whenever you consider a mechanic, ask yourself whether it enforces the experience. Any mechanic that does not has no place in the game.

    Sid Meier defines a good game as "A series of interesting decisions". This is the bottom-up alternative to the top-down take described above. Games differ from other forms of media by being interactive, and from toys by offering meaningful (often chained) choices beyond deciding what kind of fun you want to have now. Thus, if you wish to offer something that other forms of entertainment cannot, you must focus on choices. For a choice to be meaningful it must meet certain criteria. Firstly, a choice where one option is clearly better is no choice at all. For a choice to be engaging, several options must either be or appear to be as good to the player so that they can use their skill to try and determine which one is correct. Secondly, choices must have interesting consequences. A player must care about the result of a choice in order for them to want to pick the correct option. Ideally, choices should always alter further choices to create chains of possibilities in order to build on the player's previous engagement. Striving toward a single goal helps minimize the number of fronts on which you need to keep your player's interest. Finally, the player must be able to make an informed choice. If they have no way to guesstimate which option is superior, then it is, again, a non-choice. Whenever you consider a mechanic, ask yourself whether it offers the player an engaging choice and leads them to make other engaging choices. If it does not, ask whether making the player do something that is not itself interesting will make other choices in the future sufficiently more interesting as to justify its existence. Any mechanic that fits neither description is inelegant bloat.

    I hope this helps a bit. My coverage of the subject is obviously extremely shallow, so if you find it interesting you should seek out a more formal source. You can find sources on the subject under the labels of Game Design, Psychology, and Ludology. Good luck!

    Grey Paladin on
    "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence
  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    That's exactly what I was looking for, thanks!

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