Counter knifing is lame because it basically rewards the player with the slower reflexes. If a fights gotten to knife range in any other shooter it's about who can knife fastest. Here it's who doesn't knife at all and while you can say that's great because 'lol no one will knife now!' there's a reason why shooters typically have such powerful melees: It encourages decent players to not get into the range where a simple button press can kill them.
I think the general idea is a good one but it needs more depth to it. Having it have multiple possibilities (defender wins, attacker wins and a shove back 'draw') based off of a die roll, health ratios and who initiated would've being nicer. Also just strip the QTE out entirely.
Also way easier way to track whether a knife was a surprise than 'the front' is to just tell the server to give a counter knife if you would have being eligible for an assist on the guy whose knifing you. IE you've shot at them in the last ten or so seconds.
Uhm, no? It punishes the player that attempts to knife people from the front. Which kills you know because the developers thought running around and knifing everyone was stupid/poor gameplay. Lots of people were frustrated with people knifing their way through squads in BC2. They simply didn't want the Modern Warfare moves in battlefield.
The only reason there is a prompt is because they don't want you feeling out of control, without it there would just be stuff happening on screen (the same reasoning for any QTE). There's obviously not supposed to be any skill involved.
The only time someone knifed through squads in BC2 was when that squad entirely fucked up. Never mind that the knife is already nerfed in range and speed from BC2 by miles (which is good, because the only knife more silly than BC2's was MAG's).
Counter knifing is pretty much 'oh you sucked at awareness and or aiming? Don't worry you don't have to feel bad about those pesky knifers any more'. It just flat removes knifing from the game because there's zero legitimate reason to actually do it any more. If the guys unaware you shoot him, if it's up close you shoot him. Also don't worry about aiming too hard because if you want you can run right up to them and shoot them because there's no mechanic to punish you for doing that.
Dude, I think you are way overthinking this. Knifing has always been about those sweet sweet dogtags.
If you have to front knife a guy then doesn't that kinda talk to all the negatives you issue for the person getting front knifed?
You run up on snipers, knife them, steal those sweet dogtags.
Or you just say fuckitall and run up on as many people as possible and collect more tags.
If you have to rely on your knife at any point you are doing it wrong. The knife is, in my opinion, for that extra layer of fun and the challenge it presents for you to get those tags.
Basically my problem is that counter knifing is dull and removes gameplay for no real benefit.
Maybe you don't like knifing and therefore don't care. Maybe you view it as completely fine for knifing to be 100% a just for fun weapon but I'd rather a mechanic that's interesting rather than 'lol you die now because the server decided to screw you'.
I think it's hilarious counter knifing someone who ran around a corner into my face and decided to knife instead of shoot. It makes me think of someone who played a bunch of COD and it is punishing those people for thinking they can play this game the same way.
I feel like the best solution would be to just have a front knife be a quick slash that does something like 15 damage. Therefore a decent finisher and a viable tactical option if you run out of ammo say. No dog tags. Just like every other fps ever. As it is it's completely pointless. Ba-dum-tish.
Knifing from behind just stays as it is, for humiliation and dog tags.
That'd be pretty neat. I think 15 damage is a tad low because I struggle to think of any gun up close that would leave someone that low but having it be similar to TF2 where it only does the animation and insta kill from behind and the front is just a swipe would be better than the current system.
I like counter-knifing because it makes knifing even more of a humiliation kill. Knife from the back or the side? Humiliated because of terrible spatial awareness. Knife from the front?! Humiliated because you surprised them so much they missed the counter-knife prompt, or their reflexes are so bad that they can't counter-knife. That's like supreme humiliation.
I can't help but read every post complaining about counter-knifing in a high pitched whining voice. "But I wanna knife people anywheerrrrreeeeeee waaaah!"
It would be great if it were more reliable, but such is the nature of all things Battlefield on the internet. If you can't find fun in turning an incoming knife into your would-be-slayers gut and then getting a kill with whichever knife he has equipped you are a joyless, sad little soul.
I can't help but read every post complaining about counter-knifing in a high pitched whining voice. "But I wanna knife people anywheerrrrreeeeeee waaaah!"
It would be great if it were more reliable, but such is the nature of all things Battlefield on the internet. If you can't find fun in turning an incoming knife into your would-be-slayers gut and then getting a kill with whichever knife he has equipped you are a joyless, sad little soul.
If we want to throw down generalizations you can boil down every pro counter knife argument into 'the knife touched me in bad places because I'm bad at situational awareness waaaaah'. I actually am not a huge fan of melee in games. I play Arma and Rising Storm/RO2 a decent amount and knifing definitely isn't a thing that's done in those games (Arma doesn't even have melee in the engine right now. Axes in DayZ fire 1/99999 bullets with a 1m kill range. I think outside of Banzai charges, which are the best, I've gotten two bayonet kills total in RO2).
I just think counter knifing as it stands now is a really lazy way of saying 'now you must fire fight!' while also taking away those tense moments where someone lunges into knife range in a last ditch effort.
I only got counter-knifed once. That's when the person I was about to knife from behind turned around at the last second possible.
I laugh at all those idiots who runs at me while I change my weapon/kit/reload and trying to knife me from the front. Thanks for handing me your dogtag!
Shockingly I got the pistol kill last because I got a reasonably good opportunity to get the defib kill and risked it early. After playing around with the HE launcher I might stick with that over defibs once I get Grenadier unlocked.
Basically my problem is that counter knifing is dull and removes gameplay for no real benefit.
Maybe you don't like knifing and therefore don't care. Maybe you view it as completely fine for knifing to be 100% a just for fun weapon but I'd rather a mechanic that's interesting rather than 'lol you die now because the server decided to screw you'.
It doesn't remove any gameplay, what gameplay does it remove?
You can knife people. You can't knife people from the front. This isn't removing gameplay. Removing gameplay would be removing the knife.
The gameplay where people chose whether to try and outshoot someone or close distance? Because that choice doesn't exist any more due to front knifing being suicidal. It basically removes the knife as a weapon and turns it into a humiliation tool only. Which is fine I guess, I just quite liked those last ditch moments in BC2.
Also, I need my xbox bros on XB1!!! I feel so lonely
More men to shoot and stab on 64 players games. One advice, go slow. You no longer have to run 5k to shoot someone.
I was thinking about making this my first Xbox Juan game (got mine yesterday, been busy with real life and work). But the impression I get is that stability is still pretty abysmal across console and PC, and having it reset my progression would be annoying. Couldn't care about the lackluster campaign, I don't even enjoy COD's singleplayer frankly.
The gameplay where people chose whether to try and outshoot someone or close distance? Because that choice doesn't exist any more due to front knifing being suicidal. It basically removes the knife as a weapon and turns it into a humiliation tool only. Which is fine I guess, I just quite liked those last ditch moments in BC2.
It would be utterly useless if you implement BC2s knife attack though since lethality and weapon stability is up.
Was supposed to have my X1 delivered yesterday but it never showed. Soonest I'll get my box on is Monday night and then I've got super work for black Friday all week.
Fucking retail, taking away my precious battleman times...
I think I discovered why everyone I play against seem so much better than what I see other play again.
I don't play Conquest. I just played one round and went like 30-2. What the hell, do people just turn into blithering idiots when they start playing that mode or what?
I can go 0-15 but be top scorer by playing objectives and doing repairs/heals/ammo team play. Also spotting ribbons are easy points. But I would look like one of those blithering idiots every time you shot me in the game. Yet, MVP ribbon still muhahaha!
I find it stupid, as the squad leader last time my group played, that the squad leader gains disproportionately more points for the squad doing squad objectives. If you want to incentivize squad play, reward the entire squad for helping each other out, don't give me 50 points every time one of my mates shoot a guy near an objective. Give the entire squad 20 points every time any of them do something good for the squad/objective instead, this is ridiculous.
Not that anyone in my squad really cares about points. I mean being ace squad is fun and all, but the only heavy unlocking is unlocked by kills, not points. And having more points than your friend isn't really a goal.
so hows the stability on pc? I haven't played in about a week.
There is no stability on the PC. None at all. It crashes randomly - within 30 seconds of the single player and within a couple of minutes on multiplayer. This is why I never buy a game at launch. Seriously... this is early 2005's bullshit with the buggy games.
Well that's a blanket statement right there. I've experienced three crashes in over 40 hours of game play, all on map change after a couple hours of play.
BF4 damage encourages you to make smarter and more patient decisions. Pubs don't do this, making it easy to kill them.
I think this is one of the lessons I still have to learn.
Unless I'm playing a sniper rifle, I'm running straight into enemies and firefights where I hope to kill one guy but almost always get killed by the second. Which means a 1:1 kdr, if that. I really feel the increased lethality from everything.
But I guess it also depends on the weapon. With the MTAR rushing works a bit better.
My solution to this has been as follows.
Run as support. Place down a claymore. Run into people shooting, hopefully getting a kill or two. Regardless, seconds later, my claymore almost always kills someone. Makes it easy to maintain 1:1 or so
The gameplay where people chose whether to try and outshoot someone or close distance? Because that choice doesn't exist any more due to front knifing being suicidal. It basically removes the knife as a weapon and turns it into a humiliation tool only. Which is fine I guess, I just quite liked those last ditch moments in BC2.
Good, melee being a "I Win" button inside of several meters is just silly. Why they left in one hit melee kills and nerfed grenade launchers is still a head scratcher to me.
Speaking of nerfed grenade launchers, I absolutely cannot stand the things now. They're just not fun to use and most of the rifles seem to be built around some sort of grip requirement that makes using an UGL less and less likely. I will only use the UGL with the SAR or other similarly accurate guns, and when I do I am always sad that I'm not just shooting people.
They need to do something to make the 40mm more enticing. It's just not as fast a kill as shooting, especially with the lengthy reload times.
Also, I need my xbox bros on XB1!!! I feel so lonely
More men to shoot and stab on 64 players games. One advice, go slow. You no longer have to run 5k to shoot someone.
Gonna be a couple months. Hope I can still transfer my stats at that point. Haven't seen much other than info on upgrading by Dec 31st.
Ya, I don't know what console I'm getting next gen, let alone when. The only game really appealing to me is BF, and while I may be playing a watered down version, I'm ok with that. I'm having fun. Although I do miss just following you around and getting free assists points. I'd usually die, but you killed everyone I'd hit lol. SPeaking of which, @mulletude do I have you on 360? I'm Tommatt, not sure if you just use a different name and we've already added each other.
Also, I need my xbox bros on XB1!!! I feel so lonely
More men to shoot and stab on 64 players games. One advice, go slow. You no longer have to run 5k to shoot someone.
Gonna be a couple months. Hope I can still transfer my stats at that point. Haven't seen much other than info on upgrading by Dec 31st.
Ya, I don't know what console I'm getting next gen, let alone when. The only game really appealing to me is BF, and while I may be playing a watered down version, I'm ok with that. I'm having fun. Although I do miss just following you around and getting free assists points. I'd usually die, but you killed everyone I'd hit lol. SPeaking of which, @mulletude do I have you on 360? I'm Tommatt, not sure if you just use a different name and we've already added each other.
I got you on 360. I may not be the best about using my mic but I love squad'ing up with you guys.
Join on me any time and I will do the same if I see you on playing
Also, I need my xbox bros on XB1!!! I feel so lonely
More men to shoot and stab on 64 players games. One advice, go slow. You no longer have to run 5k to shoot someone.
Gonna be a couple months. Hope I can still transfer my stats at that point. Haven't seen much other than info on upgrading by Dec 31st.
Ya, I don't know what console I'm getting next gen, let alone when. The only game really appealing to me is BF, and while I may be playing a watered down version, I'm ok with that. I'm having fun. Although I do miss just following you around and getting free assists points. I'd usually die, but you killed everyone I'd hit lol. SPeaking of which, @mulletude do I have you on 360? I'm Tommatt, not sure if you just use a different name and we've already added each other.
I got you on 360. I may not be the best about using my mic but I love squad'ing up with you guys.
Join on me any time and I will do the same if I see you on playing
Had I looked at your signature I'd have known who you were. I fail at the forums it seems.
Posts
Dude, I think you are way overthinking this. Knifing has always been about those sweet sweet dogtags.
If you have to front knife a guy then doesn't that kinda talk to all the negatives you issue for the person getting front knifed?
You run up on snipers, knife them, steal those sweet dogtags.
Or you just say fuckitall and run up on as many people as possible and collect more tags.
If you have to rely on your knife at any point you are doing it wrong. The knife is, in my opinion, for that extra layer of fun and the challenge it presents for you to get those tags.
Maybe you don't like knifing and therefore don't care. Maybe you view it as completely fine for knifing to be 100% a just for fun weapon but I'd rather a mechanic that's interesting rather than 'lol you die now because the server decided to screw you'.
Knifing from behind just stays as it is, for humiliation and dog tags.
No, because front slashing is viable in cod. it isnt here. and it shouldnt be. if i wanted to play cod i would play that instead.
It would be great if it were more reliable, but such is the nature of all things Battlefield on the internet. If you can't find fun in turning an incoming knife into your would-be-slayers gut and then getting a kill with whichever knife he has equipped you are a joyless, sad little soul.
If we want to throw down generalizations you can boil down every pro counter knife argument into 'the knife touched me in bad places because I'm bad at situational awareness waaaaah'. I actually am not a huge fan of melee in games. I play Arma and Rising Storm/RO2 a decent amount and knifing definitely isn't a thing that's done in those games (Arma doesn't even have melee in the engine right now. Axes in DayZ fire 1/99999 bullets with a 1m kill range. I think outside of Banzai charges, which are the best, I've gotten two bayonet kills total in RO2).
I just think counter knifing as it stands now is a really lazy way of saying 'now you must fire fight!' while also taking away those tense moments where someone lunges into knife range in a last ditch effort.
I laugh at all those idiots who runs at me while I change my weapon/kit/reload and trying to knife me from the front. Thanks for handing me your dogtag!
More men to shoot and stab on 64 players games. One advice, go slow. You no longer have to run 5k to shoot someone.
Shockingly I got the pistol kill last because I got a reasonably good opportunity to get the defib kill and risked it early. After playing around with the HE launcher I might stick with that over defibs once I get Grenadier unlocked.
It doesn't remove any gameplay, what gameplay does it remove?
You can knife people. You can't knife people from the front. This isn't removing gameplay. Removing gameplay would be removing the knife.
I was thinking about making this my first Xbox Juan game (got mine yesterday, been busy with real life and work). But the impression I get is that stability is still pretty abysmal across console and PC, and having it reset my progression would be annoying. Couldn't care about the lackluster campaign, I don't even enjoy COD's singleplayer frankly.
It would be utterly useless if you implement BC2s knife attack though since lethality and weapon stability is up.
Fucking retail, taking away my precious battleman times...
I don't play Conquest. I just played one round and went like 30-2. What the hell, do people just turn into blithering idiots when they start playing that mode or what?
Not that anyone in my squad really cares about points. I mean being ace squad is fun and all, but the only heavy unlocking is unlocked by kills, not points. And having more points than your friend isn't really a goal.
I'd love a 'your nearby squad mate is performing so have points' system.
How does it feel to be The Chosen One?
My solution to this has been as follows.
Run as support. Place down a claymore. Run into people shooting, hopefully getting a kill or two. Regardless, seconds later, my claymore almost always kills someone. Makes it easy to maintain 1:1 or so
Podcast WHORING: Episodes 2-8 (Thanks Zonghui)
Good, melee being a "I Win" button inside of several meters is just silly. Why they left in one hit melee kills and nerfed grenade launchers is still a head scratcher to me.
They need to do something to make the 40mm more enticing. It's just not as fast a kill as shooting, especially with the lengthy reload times.
Also, that the smoke launcher was the best anti-personal weapon. Direct impacts.
Was that changed in BF4? Did they ruin Battlefield forever?
Gonna be a couple months. Hope I can still transfer my stats at that point. Haven't seen much other than info on upgrading by Dec 31st.
Ya, I don't know what console I'm getting next gen, let alone when. The only game really appealing to me is BF, and while I may be playing a watered down version, I'm ok with that. I'm having fun. Although I do miss just following you around and getting free assists points. I'd usually die, but you killed everyone I'd hit lol. SPeaking of which, @mulletude do I have you on 360? I'm Tommatt, not sure if you just use a different name and we've already added each other.
I got you on 360. I may not be the best about using my mic but I love squad'ing up with you guys.
Join on me any time and I will do the same if I see you on playing
Had I looked at your signature I'd have known who you were. I fail at the forums it seems.
I play BF4 on XB1, gamertag is my forum name, what's yours?
Also it is hilariously fun to run around as Recon with a Carbine (ACW in this case) Even with only C4/pokeballs unlocked.