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[WOW] I guess there's an Expansion coming out this year ? Maybe ?

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Posts

  • HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    Well, honestly the devs themselves have stated that the game does a poor job of communicating its intricacies to players. Whether or not you agree that it's necessary is up for debate, though personally I find myself on the side of the fence that promotes in-game instruction. Homework or no, currently there is absolutely nothing in the game that tells you some of the most basic information, like what Smrtnik and I posted on Rogues above. It's just not in the game anywhere (well, the Assassination bit about daggers is, but beyond that, nothing).

    Now to be clear, I'm not advocating that the game lay itself bare and expose every single secret or ounce of nuanced play to the new player, certainly there's something to be said for having some secrets or easter eggs to be found by the player alone. But in terms of 'how do I play X class appropriately', the fact that we have to tell people to go to Noxxic which is a site that gives you an INCREDIBLY simple breakdown of how to do it is just an enormous oversight on the part of the developer team. To be fair, the spellbook does have an even more simplified 'priority list' of -some- abilities, but it's not even close to being as comprehensive as Noxxic, and that just shouldn't be the case.

    To @Lucascraft 's point, that's another issue as well - the age of the game and its design is already pretty well set in stone. While they can iterate on it to a degree, people are already very familiar with the whole design scheme of the game which includes being very forgiving for people who simply don't care to put in more effort. They're not going to change that now; the last time they tried, they lost the biggest number of subscriber's in the game's history. So that's why 'git gud' is never going to work the way most of the less tolerant players want it to, however, that's not to say that the devs shouldn't put in a bit of effort to make the meat of the gameplay more readily available and apparent.

  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    I guess I'm just an elitist, but I have no problem with there being a "next level" of gameplay for those willing to do the homework. And stuff like LFR proves to me that there is a subset of people who want to next-level, but aren't willing to put in the effort.

    It's the same reasoning behind when I tell someone how to do ore shuffling, when they ask me how I have so much gold. And then they reply with, "wow, that sounds like a lot of work." Fine, then sit there and be broke. Meanwihle, I paid 35k for a robot mount and didn't flinch.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    How do you "ore shuffle"?

    If I decide to get back into WoW again for the next expansion, I'm going to be fairly broke. My horde characters have been idle for a while and what little money they had was transferred off of the server. I moved it to alliance and I'm not going to pay to move it back.

    I could use a good method of making money.

  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    For this expansion:
    Ghost Iron Ore -> Prospect -> Cut Rares -> Sell
                               \_> Xmute Greens to Blues -> Cut and Sell
                               \_> Convert to green jewelry -> DE -> Sell mats or Enchants
    

    So essentially, you're taking ore and converting it into multiple finished goods for profit.

    Mugsley on
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Sounds easy enough, and I actually have a 525, level 85 jewelcrafter/miner on my Horde server. I should be able to get him up to 90 and 600 in JC/mining pretty easily.

  • HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    I guess I'm just an elitist, but I have no problem with there being a "next level" of gameplay for those willing to do the homework. And stuff like LFR proves to me that there is a subset of people who want to next-level, but aren't willing to put in the effort.

    It's the same reasoning behind when I tell someone how to do ore shuffling, when they ask me how I have so much gold. And then they reply with, "wow, that sounds like a lot of work." Fine, then sit there and be broke. Meanwihle, I paid 35k for a robot mount and didn't flinch.

    Oh totally, there should absolutely be a higher level of gameplay for those willing to put in the effort, and there is. Heroic modes offer that, and Normal modes being tuned higher than they were pre-Cata can be argued as another example. Honestly I'm not suggesting that people who are potentially great raiders are only held back because they don't know how to Google. What I am saying though is that there is a subset of players in this game who could easily go from '40k DPS in SoO LFR using 502 weapons' to 75 or 80k, still not great, but markedly better than they are, but there's nothing in game that tells them "you're doing it wrong" other than players, who can be...well, less than helpful in their feedback.

    Having said that, there are a number of types of players in this game, from the hardcore devotee who spends a significant amount of their time working on raid strategies and such to the uber-casual youngster who just likes shooting arrows at things and having a pet wolf. The question is, does everyone in every group deserve to see all of the content? That's a tough one to answer, because everyone seems to have their own opinion on it. Blizzard's opinion is revenue-driven, so they're going to say 'yes'. So essentially we need a way to make that less painful on those of us who do care enough to research our classes and raids.

  • TenekTenek Registered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    I guess I'm just an elitist, but I have no problem with there being a "next level" of gameplay for those willing to do the homework. And stuff like LFR proves to me that there is a subset of people who want to next-level, but aren't willing to put in the effort.

    It's the same reasoning behind when I tell someone how to do ore shuffling, when they ask me how I have so much gold. And then they reply with, "wow, that sounds like a lot of work." Fine, then sit there and be broke. Meanwihle, I paid 35k for a robot mount and didn't flinch.

    There are three next levels: flex, normal and heroic. If you implemented LFR 2 which uses the auto-groups but is otherwise identical to Flex-25, you'd spend every raid identifying and culling the people who won't do their homework. To some extent, each tier involves being carried by people who are good enough for the next one. Every LFR has that tank with 900k hp, or that 200k deeps, etc. Flex expects you to know the fights before you get there. Normal would probably be a terrible slog without a few people who are heroic-capable.

    forty
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Halfmex wrote: »
    Well, honestly the devs themselves have stated that the game does a poor job of communicating its intricacies to players. Whether or not you agree that it's necessary is up for debate, though personally I find myself on the side of the fence that promotes in-game instruction. Homework or no, currently there is absolutely nothing in the game that tells you some of the most basic information, like what Smrtnik and I posted on Rogues above. It's just not in the game anywhere (well, the Assassination bit about daggers is, but beyond that, nothing).

    Now to be clear, I'm not advocating that the game lay itself bare and expose every single secret or ounce of nuanced play to the new player, certainly there's something to be said for having some secrets or easter eggs to be found by the player alone. But in terms of 'how do I play X class appropriately', the fact that we have to tell people to go to Noxxic which is a site that gives you an INCREDIBLY simple breakdown of how to do it is just an enormous oversight on the part of the developer team. To be fair, the spellbook does have an even more simplified 'priority list' of -some- abilities, but it's not even close to being as comprehensive as Noxxic, and that just shouldn't be the case.

    To @Lucascraft 's point, that's another issue as well - the age of the game and its design is already pretty well set in stone. While they can iterate on it to a degree, people are already very familiar with the whole design scheme of the game which includes being very forgiving for people who simply don't care to put in more effort. They're not going to change that now; the last time they tried, they lost the biggest number of subscriber's in the game's history. So that's why 'git gud' is never going to work the way most of the less tolerant players want it to, however, that's not to say that the devs shouldn't put in a bit of effort to make the meat of the gameplay more readily available and apparent.
    I agree with the sentiment that the game should do more to teach players how to play, but I can also see from Blizzard's perspective why it doesn't. We have 34 specs now, and rotations can change from patches, hell even hotfixes sometimes, and it seems like it would be a significant amount of work for Blizzard to present all that information in a good way in game and, more critically, keep it updated and "correct" all the time. Hell, some rotations/priorities change depending on your weapons (like DW vs. 2H).

    I feel like in the hypothetical world where Blizzard started doing that, then there would be this huge onus on them for that information to be right, or you'd have people arguing "but the game says to do this! fuck your EJ rotation!" That and I also wonder how many people would benefit from it. If "bads gonna bad" anyway, after all, then I think they would have a legitimate concern that all that time spent on their part might not end up accomplishing much.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    Halfmex
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Tenek wrote: »
    Normal would probably be a terrible slog without a few people who are heroic-capable.

    I can tell you this is more true than you realize because I'm experiencing this right now. I'd say 6/10 of our raid is Heroic capable and we're still having difficulties on Normals.

    forty
  • RiokennRiokenn Registered User regular
    Is Flex raiding Cross Realm enabled? Like could you invite friends from different realms to join the raid? If so, how come we never try to setup a date to try it out?

    OmSUg.pngrs3ua.pngvVAdv.png
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    If I had to make a choice between them simply continuing to improve the game UI to better display the information you need (optionally) in order to play well vs. giving you static information or proving grounds style trials for learning to play, I would definitely choose the former. It's not a big deal for me to go to a site or two to get some "L2P" information, but the upkeep to configure, maintain, and update various addons that help me be better gets to be a pain after a while.

    Edit: I know this is to some extent a false dichotomy, but I think it and my post above are long-winded ways of saying that I think there's a good argument to be made that due to the realities of software development, some things are better left up to crowd-sourcing (e.g., noxxic, icy veins, ask mr. robot, etc.) vs. Blizzard devoting significant development hours.

    forty on
    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    Mugsley
  • AdvocateAdvocate Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    Riokenn wrote: »
    Is Flex raiding Cross Realm enabled? Like could you invite friends from different realms to join the raid? If so, how come we never try to setup a date to try it out?

    It is, I've done flex with the SE++ guys for fun. They usually run it around 9:00 pm EST on Thursdays.

    Edit: Heh, forgot the day of the week.

    Advocate on
  • MasterOfPupetsMasterOfPupets Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »

    WoW is 9 years old. There is almost no new blood in the game at this point. The people who are playing are people who have been playing for multiple years already.

    I think if Blizz actually released the info they have, we'd all be surprised with the amount of new blood in the game. Or at least, newer blood.

    Purely anectdotal evidence (just like pretty much everything posted in this thread) but in leveling 2 character since the last patch (one to 90, one at 58 right now) I have run into many people who are new (or newer) than you'd expect. I've run into people who act like LFR has always been around. Or who don't know what the original talent system was like. If you read any of the more mainstream wow sites (Like WoW insider) you'll see mentions always of the 'elitists who always talk about the old days of vanilla or tbc' and those people are the vast minority. While yes, there are people who have played since Vanilla (myself included) there are probably just as many people whose first introduction to WoW was MoP or Cata.

    I do agree with the game not teaching people well enough as they level though. I genuinely don't think there is any way to fix that though without immense changes to the way leveling works though. I think Proving Grounds are a good start at the moment though. It offers a solo way to work on tanking/healing/dps skills without having to waste 24 other people's time doing it. Now they just need to work out a way to teach players in game how not to be bad.

    XBL = MoP54
    PSN = PessimistMaximus
    camo_sig2.png
    forty
  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    The problem with training while leveling is MoP is already regarded as being hideously unfriendly to alts, and virtually any mandatory training during leveling is just going to piss off altoholics even more.

    Especially since there is a large portion of players who steadfastly believe the game does not begin until max level, and they won't be happy about the extra hoops added to the journey.

    Lars on
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    MMO-Champion has a pretty interesting post on their front page right now:
    Blizzard Team Changes
    The Blizzcon schedule has some interesting changes to the team working on different games, including the return of Furor to WoW.

    World of Warcraft Team

    Alex Afrasiabi (Furor) - He started out as a Quest Designer, then Lead Quest Designer up until WoTLK, then Lead World Designer in Cataclysm, then he disappeared after Tigole announced he was moving to another project (Titan), but he is apparently now back as Creative Director for the next expansion!
    Craig Amai - He was a previously a Game Designer, and is now the Lead Quest Designer for the next expansion.
    Dave Kosak - He was previously Lead Quest Designer, and is now the Lead Narrative Designer for the next expansion.


    Heroes of the Storm Team

    Dustin Browder - He was Game Director for StarCraft II, and is now Game Director for Heroes of the Storm
    Matt Cooper - He was Game Balance Designer for StarCraft II, and is now Game Designer on Heroes of the Storm
    Richard Khoo - He was Game Designer on StarCraft II, and is now Senior Game Designer on Heroes of the Storm
    Alexander Sun - He was on the Web Team, then Game Designer on StarCraft II, and is now Senior Game Designer on Heroes of the Storm

    I'm not suuuuper familiar with Furor and what he's done, but interesting nonetheless.

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
  • CrayonCrayon Sleeps in the wrong bed. TejasRegistered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Crayon wrote: »
    Opty wrote: »
    When there's factual data (Blizz knows the average amount of wipes and stacks of determination every boss kill takes and what killed people every time they die as three big data points, and that's just a tiny bit of the data they gather) and tons of anecdotal evidence from not just people in this thread but people across the internet that supports LFR getting nerfed, being surprised/mad at it getting nerfed is being a bit blind to experiences other than yours.

    I believe that's why it's called anecdotal. Dear god, this is kind of circular at this point.

    I was wrong. My personal opinion that it shouldn't have been nerfed further is bad. Super bad and stupid.
    Don't forget about your opinion that others are crazy for having bad experiences in LFR. That's the mega super bad and stupid opinion.
    honestly we're past the point where talking about the difficulty in LFR is even productive; there's some segment of the population that either only wants the most basic 'push button, receive bacon' gameplay or isn't capable of anything more, and LFR is blizzard's alternative for them. The nature of the random, functionally anonymous environment means that any level of difficulty winds up being too goddamn much for a lot of groups. Any mechanic that can't be brute forced at a relatively low level (determination) is always going to get removed quickly.
    Exactly. And yet it seems like every tier when the inevitable "oops we expected too much of 20 or so random, terrible players and overtuned things" nerfs hit, somehow official forums style goosery leaks into these threads and a "lol wtf LFR so easy y nerf" post or two works its way in.


    Don't believe I ever said anyone's experience was an exaggeration or that they were crazy. I believe the most offensive thing I said was that it was a weird definition of fun. Yes, hold me to the coals for that. It was so crazy offensive.

  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Halfmex wrote: »
    Well, honestly the devs themselves have stated that the game does a poor job of communicating its intricacies to players. Whether or not you agree that it's necessary is up for debate, though personally I find myself on the side of the fence that promotes in-game instruction. Homework or no, currently there is absolutely nothing in the game that tells you some of the most basic information, like what Smrtnik and I posted on Rogues above. It's just not in the game anywhere (well, the Assassination bit about daggers is, but beyond that, nothing).

    Now to be clear, I'm not advocating that the game lay itself bare and expose every single secret or ounce of nuanced play to the new player, certainly there's something to be said for having some secrets or easter eggs to be found by the player alone. But in terms of 'how do I play X class appropriately', the fact that we have to tell people to go to Noxxic which is a site that gives you an INCREDIBLY simple breakdown of how to do it is just an enormous oversight on the part of the developer team. To be fair, the spellbook does have an even more simplified 'priority list' of -some- abilities, but it's not even close to being as comprehensive as Noxxic, and that just shouldn't be the case.

    To @Lucascraft 's point, that's another issue as well - the age of the game and its design is already pretty well set in stone. While they can iterate on it to a degree, people are already very familiar with the whole design scheme of the game which includes being very forgiving for people who simply don't care to put in more effort. They're not going to change that now; the last time they tried, they lost the biggest number of subscriber's in the game's history. So that's why 'git gud' is never going to work the way most of the less tolerant players want it to, however, that's not to say that the devs shouldn't put in a bit of effort to make the meat of the gameplay more readily available and apparent.
    I agree with the sentiment that the game should do more to teach players how to play, but I can also see from Blizzard's perspective why it doesn't. We have 34 specs now, and rotations can change from patches, hell even hotfixes sometimes, and it seems like it would be a significant amount of work for Blizzard to present all that information in a good way in game and, more critically, keep it updated and "correct" all the time. Hell, some rotations/priorities change depending on your weapons (like DW vs. 2H).

    I feel like in the hypothetical world where Blizzard started doing that, then there would be this huge onus on them for that information to be right, or you'd have people arguing "but the game says to do this! fuck your EJ rotation!" That and I also wonder how many people would benefit from it. If "bads gonna bad" anyway, after all, then I think they would have a legitimate concern that all that time spent on their part might not end up accomplishing much.

    Yes, but I doubt a EJ level of rotation/priority understanding is necessary to improve DPS/whatever to non-stupid levels.

    Hell, just knowing as a DK you need to keep both diseases up all the time, or Savage Roar, or Vindication or whatever it is for ret pallies would be a HUGE step in the right direction. I mean does it need to teach that a 2h frost DK needs to use procced OBlits over procced HBs? No. Does it need to explain that using Heart Strike as frost or something is dumb? Yes (not that I'm sure that's even possible, but I think it gets the point across).

  • MasterOfPupetsMasterOfPupets Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    Bigity wrote: »
    Yes, but I doubt a EJ level of rotation/priority understanding is necessary to improve DPS/whatever to non-stupid levels.

    Hell, just knowing as a DK you need to keep both diseases up all the time, or Savage Roar, or Vindication or whatever it is for ret pallies would be a HUGE step in the right direction. I mean does it need to teach that a 2h frost DK needs to use procced OBlits over procced HBs? No. Does it need to explain that using Heart Strike as frost or something is dumb? Yes (not that I'm sure that's even possible, but I think it gets the point across).

    Already does most of that. Open your spellbook and click on the "Core Abilities" tab.

    For example, my BM hunter says:
    Serpent Sting: Keep applied to target
    Kill Command: Use when available
    Arcane Shot: Use when nothing else is available
    Cobra Shot: Use when low on focus
    Kill Shot: Use when your target is below 20% health.

    Just using that advice, it's possible to do manageable dps. Granted, it doesn't tell you about cooldowns or anything like that, but it hits the main points of how to dps.

    MasterOfPupets on
    XBL = MoP54
    PSN = PessimistMaximus
    camo_sig2.png
    forty
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    So the Diablo 3 blizzcon trailer has leaked; I wonder if the WoW xpack one (assuming there is one, I can't imagine there's not) will too?

    Because waiting till tomorrow is hard. :lol:

    Oh, and Spoiler, the d3 xpack looks wonderful.

    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
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  • HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    I am still absolutely flabbergasted that Blizzard has managed to leak exactly zero bits of information from the expansion. Like, literally nothing. Strong hints, but nothing at all concrete. Whether that will continue until tomorrow remains to be seen, but still, impressive thus far.

  • JediNightJediNight Registered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    Tenek wrote: »
    Normal would probably be a terrible slog without a few people who are heroic-capable.
    I can tell you this is more true than you realize because I'm experiencing this right now. I'd say 6/10 of our raid is Heroic capable and we're still having difficulties on Normals.

    It's even worse than that on Normal. Often, even 1 and definitely 2 Derps in your raid fucks you over on attempts for certain bosses. That Guy that always dies early burning your battle res for no reason. Then the other Derp dies to Standing In Fire and you can't make the DPS check then, etc.

    forty
  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    My personal gripe are the people who try their hardest to pad the meters and argue with you when you ask them to just do the fight without trying to stroke their epeen. No, you don't have to bladestorm the adds on Sha. They will kill you. Let the tank get them. You most definitely do not need to multi-dot on Paragons what the fuck are you even doing.

    Lorahalo on
    I have a podcast about Digimon called the Digital Moncast, on Audio Entropy.
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    On the topic of getting new blood into WoW, someone mentioned the revamp of the Recruit A Friend thing...

    Maybe I'm a bit cynical in my viewpoint of RaF, but I don't think it's new players that are taking advantage of RaF. You know who *is* taking advantage of RaF? Mount collectors, completionists, and people who want to rapidly level an alt and then transfer it to their main account. That's who participates in RaF.

    As I mentioned on the previous page, WoW is 9 years old now. Everyone on earth has heard of it, whether they play it or not, and the people who wanted to play it have long since subscribed.

    A completely overhauled RaF program is not going to bring in more than a dozen new players. The vast majority of new accounts will be veteran players who just want the mount and want to power level some dudes with triple XP.

    Lucascraft on
    Halfmex
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    MMO-Champion has a pretty interesting post on their front page right now:
    Blizzard Team Changes
    The Blizzcon schedule has some interesting changes to the team working on different games, including the return of Furor to WoW.

    World of Warcraft Team

    Alex Afrasiabi (Furor) - He started out as a Quest Designer, then Lead Quest Designer up until WoTLK, then Lead World Designer in Cataclysm, then he disappeared after Tigole announced he was moving to another project (Titan), but he is apparently now back as Creative Director for the next expansion!
    Craig Amai - He was a previously a Game Designer, and is now the Lead Quest Designer for the next expansion.
    Dave Kosak - He was previously Lead Quest Designer, and is now the Lead Narrative Designer for the next expansion.


    Heroes of the Storm Team

    Dustin Browder - He was Game Director for StarCraft II, and is now Game Director for Heroes of the Storm
    Matt Cooper - He was Game Balance Designer for StarCraft II, and is now Game Designer on Heroes of the Storm
    Richard Khoo - He was Game Designer on StarCraft II, and is now Senior Game Designer on Heroes of the Storm
    Alexander Sun - He was on the Web Team, then Game Designer on StarCraft II, and is now Senior Game Designer on Heroes of the Storm

    I'm not suuuuper familiar with Furor and what he's done, but interesting nonetheless.
    Oh hey Furor's back. Like the post says, he mostly did quest design until Cata. I believe he is credited with the old Tirion Fordring quest line in the Plaguelands where his son is killed.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Crayon wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    Crayon wrote: »
    Opty wrote: »
    When there's factual data (Blizz knows the average amount of wipes and stacks of determination every boss kill takes and what killed people every time they die as three big data points, and that's just a tiny bit of the data they gather) and tons of anecdotal evidence from not just people in this thread but people across the internet that supports LFR getting nerfed, being surprised/mad at it getting nerfed is being a bit blind to experiences other than yours.

    I believe that's why it's called anecdotal. Dear god, this is kind of circular at this point.

    I was wrong. My personal opinion that it shouldn't have been nerfed further is bad. Super bad and stupid.
    Don't forget about your opinion that others are crazy for having bad experiences in LFR. That's the mega super bad and stupid opinion.
    honestly we're past the point where talking about the difficulty in LFR is even productive; there's some segment of the population that either only wants the most basic 'push button, receive bacon' gameplay or isn't capable of anything more, and LFR is blizzard's alternative for them. The nature of the random, functionally anonymous environment means that any level of difficulty winds up being too goddamn much for a lot of groups. Any mechanic that can't be brute forced at a relatively low level (determination) is always going to get removed quickly.
    Exactly. And yet it seems like every tier when the inevitable "oops we expected too much of 20 or so random, terrible players and overtuned things" nerfs hit, somehow official forums style goosery leaks into these threads and a "lol wtf LFR so easy y nerf" post or two works its way in.


    Don't believe I ever said anyone's experience was an exaggeration or that they were crazy. I believe the most offensive thing I said was that it was a weird definition of fun. Yes, hold me to the coals for that. It was so crazy offensive.
    I didn't say it was offensive, just bad and stupid.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    Crayon
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Dibby wrote: »
    MMO-Champion has a pretty interesting post on their front page right now:
    Blizzard Team Changes
    The Blizzcon schedule has some interesting changes to the team working on different games, including the return of Furor to WoW.

    World of Warcraft Team

    Alex Afrasiabi (Furor) - He started out as a Quest Designer, then Lead Quest Designer up until WoTLK, then Lead World Designer in Cataclysm, then he disappeared after Tigole announced he was moving to another project (Titan), but he is apparently now back as Creative Director for the next expansion!
    Craig Amai - He was a previously a Game Designer, and is now the Lead Quest Designer for the next expansion.
    Dave Kosak - He was previously Lead Quest Designer, and is now the Lead Narrative Designer for the next expansion.


    Heroes of the Storm Team

    Dustin Browder - He was Game Director for StarCraft II, and is now Game Director for Heroes of the Storm
    Matt Cooper - He was Game Balance Designer for StarCraft II, and is now Game Designer on Heroes of the Storm
    Richard Khoo - He was Game Designer on StarCraft II, and is now Senior Game Designer on Heroes of the Storm
    Alexander Sun - He was on the Web Team, then Game Designer on StarCraft II, and is now Senior Game Designer on Heroes of the Storm

    I'm not suuuuper familiar with Furor and what he's done, but interesting nonetheless.
    Oh hey Furor's back. Like the post says, he mostly did quest design until Cata. I believe he is credited with the old Tirion Fordring quest line in the Plaguelands where his son is killed.

    Oh, right on. If he's in any way responsible for the Cata Old World re-design, then by all means I am on board for Furor.

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    My personal gripe are the people who try their hardest to pad the meters and argue with you when you ask them to just do the fight without trying to stroke their epeen. No, you don't have to bladestorm the adds on Sha. They will kill you. Let the tank get them. You most definitely do not need to multi-dot on Paragons what the fuck are you even doing.
    The multidotting on fights where the non-kill target just heals really annoys me. It was always happening on Megaera as well. Grats on parsing a little higher on a useless LFR WoL entry, but you're just making the fight take longer than it needs to.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • EnialisEnialis Registered User regular
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    My personal gripe are the people who try their hardest to pad the meters and argue with you when you ask them to just do the fight without trying to stroke their epeen. No, you don't have to bladestorm the adds on Sha. They will kill you. Let the tank get them. You most definitely do not need to multi-dot on Paragons what the fuck are you even doing.

    We wipe more to early bosses than the later ones because they're "easy" for this reason, it's infuriating. We 2-shot H-Paragons this week, but spent two hours on Thok cause of yeti-padding and bad kiting.


    WoW's age means this year's college freshmen were nine years old when the game was released. At this point I'm sure most people in the 20-30 range has either tried it (and maybe quit) or has no intention of every trying it, but there's literally a generation of gamers I'm sure Blizzard would love to get into the game. Also now I feel like an old man.

    fortyFairchildSmrtnik
  • sumwarsumwar Registered User regular
    I am not liking the DPS rankings on noxxic, it's not true at all. I'm looking at realistic dps rankings at Best in Slot level of gear and it's saying that warlocks are above average but not best (they are the best they're OP). Noxxic is saying beast master is the third best spec out of all the specs across all classes and that's not true, hunters are middle of the pack. It claims arcane mages are the best spec, not true they're okay but no the best. I'm ilvl 529 and when I was 528 I did 139K dps on malkorok. Noxxic says I can do 200K dps as destruction at ilvl 528 and I simply don't think that's realistic, if someone could do that without trinket proc luck I'd be very impressed. I frequently inspect people who do more damage than me and it's never been the case someone does 15% or more damage than me that didn't have better gear than me. I would love to see how I can go from 139K dps to 200K dps.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Man oh man.

    My old Horde server, Earthen Ring, is sooooooooo dead now. It used to be the most active RP server at one point, and regularly had queues of about 300-400 people during peak hours. Now I log in and there's a grand total of 11 people in the central district of Orgrimmar. How sad.

    There are so few people here, that working the auction house to make a profit probably isn't even possible.

    Crazy, cause the server that I've been playing Alliance on for the last little while is insanely busy. (Stormrage).

  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Oh, neat, Murkalots are being sent out already.

    Way too adorbs.

    persona4celestia.jpg
    COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
  • NamonNamon Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    I think people have nailed it on the head about "why there are bads."

    The game does dick all to actually prepare you for the high end game as you level, which is almost 100% done solo for most people.

    Once you get there and you have learned a little, the problem is it feels like you have to stare at countless spreadsheets to nail down a good rotation. I've tried reading rotation guides from places like Elitist Jerks, and the problem is they spend so much time masturbating to their own math that they get lost in a tome of formulas that 99% of us mortals could care less about. This is my main reason why I can't stick with this game for any amount of time at all. I don't care. I don't. I just want to get on and kill shit. I should not have to spend time "researching" and watching videos of other people playing the damn game. I want to play the damn game myself, and I can't help but think that there are many out there like me. WoW is the first game I have played where it is almost a requirement to put that much extra effort outside of the game to get good at it. I research my projects at work, I shouldn't have to do that on a game. I'm not saying make it easy by any stretch but there should be ways to practice and master in game through trial and error just like any other game out there, and design the tiers of difficulty around that.

    However, I do also think there is one other aspect out there that many people don't talk about. I'm not sure if it's because they don't think about it or it's just not talked about. And that is the extras. WoW is the only game that almost requires you to mod it to play it right. Yes it's cool that you can customize the UI to a minute level, but lets face it, many people out there in the top tiers of things use Mods and Macros to streamline the gameplay, while the rest do not. My personal opinion is that it's terrible game design if your game has to be macroed down to combine the 187340837410387 abilities each class seams to need, along with countless mods to improve the game's feedback to the user, because the default UI sucks so badly and always has that you just don't stand a chance. Also the said ability bloat is massive for those who run the game by it's default design: WSAD movement click on abilities icons on the bottom. Even something as simple as that is not really encouraged by default by the game. Then from there, you have key mappings and on up to expensive peripherals to facilitate the game (which I'm not saying this is a requirement by a long shot but you can't deny a gaming mouse does not help immensely). So honestly the "goods" have just figured out how to streamline everything, and I argue that most of them would be just as crappy at it if they had just the default UI with no mods or macros.

    So with that said I 100% agree with the guy who said they need to slash the abilities by 1/2. Frankly they just need to combine them. Start with a base ability and just add extra effects to it as you level.

    Namon on
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I think a Diablo 3 system would work, only perhaps with a few extra skills.

    Allow people no more than 8 active abilities at one time, plus a few selectable passives that would vary by specialization.

    One thing that definitely needs to be reduced is the amount of 2 and 3 minute cooldowns and "situational abilities." Why do tanks all have like 3 or 4 survival cooldowns? There really only should be one. Increased mitigation for a short amount of time. Balance boss encounters around fewer cooldowns.

    And for the DPS classes, the idea of "pop all your shit" during a burn phase is ridiculous. Why do you need 2 or 3 cooldowns, plus trinket effects, plus whatever else to boost your damage. Remove all that crap. It's just bloat. Balance the game around zero cooldowns, or at max one per class.

    belligerent
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    The mod system is a crowning glory of an achievement for Blizzard. The default UI may or may not be utter crap, but the fact you can erase all traces of it and tailor it to almost anything at all is one of the best ideas in the history of gaming. More companies need to implement it. More Blizzard games need to. It baffles me that they do not. It must generate a lot of the CS calls or something.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I think a Diablo 3 system would work, only perhaps with a few extra skills.

    Allow people no more than 8 active abilities at one time, plus a few selectable passives that would vary by specialization.

    One thing that definitely needs to be reduced is the amount of 2 and 3 minute cooldowns and "situational abilities." Why do tanks all have like 3 or 4 survival cooldowns? There really only should be one. Increased mitigation for a short amount of time. Balance boss encounters around fewer cooldowns.

    And for the DPS classes, the idea of "pop all your shit" during a burn phase is ridiculous. Why do you need 2 or 3 cooldowns, plus trinket effects, plus whatever else to boost your damage. Remove all that crap. It's just bloat. Balance the game around zero cooldowns, or at max one per class.

    While I agree that the number of cooldowns can be overwhelming for new players, it's REALLY boring if you don't have any. It's just a constant repeat of your rotation + procs. Cooldowns (especially some of the more interesting ones like Ascendance) make it a lot more fun to play. If you've ever played a Fire Mage, you'll know what I mean. You only have one real cooldown, and it's just a dot. It doesn't do anything extra. And Fire Mages can be really boring to play.

    Lorahalo on
    I have a podcast about Digimon called the Digital Moncast, on Audio Entropy.
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Moddable UI is one of the best and worst aspects of WoW. Things such as threat meters need to be baked into the default UI in an unobtrusive way, such as the FFXIV interface.

    Things like heal assist, one-click cleansing, deadly boss mods, and other mods of that nature are a blight on the game. In the case of things like heal assist and one-click cleanse, that is not how the game was designed to be played. Spells like Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Remove Poison were put in the game for a reason. They want you to put that spell on your hotbar and make a conscious decision to cast it. Mindlessly clicking someone's name when a red box lights up removes any challenge at all from the existence of negative effects.

    And in the case of deadly boss mods -- audible chimes, on-screen alerts, and timers on boss cooldowns completely defeat the purpose of learning a boss and remove any of the mystery and wonder from the encounter. Those mods strip encounters of their personality and reduce them to a set of predictable mechanical cogs.

    It's called "pay attention." That's literally all a person has to do to be successful in a raid.

  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    One thing I noticed on my druid as opposed to my mage is that a lot of abilities from other specs are just left there. Why does my Moonkin need to have all these Feral abilities? Is it a hybrid thing? I only really play a mage/druid with dabbles in Shaman/Monk so I have no idea if it's less of thing for pure classes.

    Lorahalo on
    I have a podcast about Digimon called the Digital Moncast, on Audio Entropy.
  • NamonNamon Registered User regular
    I am not opposed to the option to tailor it at all, but it should not be a damn near requirement to play the game correctly. At that point you are flat out in bad design territory. The default UI is terrible, but it has been covered up because people have retooled it to be usable (and very well I may add). Your average player does not know this and/or they don't want to have to be assed to wade through all the mods to find one they like, download it, and download another thing so the mod can stay up to date with little annoyance. Thus, this puts them behind before they even get out of the gates. That is pretty much my point in the first place.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I think a Diablo 3 system would work, only perhaps with a few extra skills.

    Allow people no more than 8 active abilities at one time, plus a few selectable passives that would vary by specialization.

    One thing that definitely needs to be reduced is the amount of 2 and 3 minute cooldowns and "situational abilities." Why do tanks all have like 3 or 4 survival cooldowns? There really only should be one. Increased mitigation for a short amount of time. Balance boss encounters around fewer cooldowns.

    And for the DPS classes, the idea of "pop all your shit" during a burn phase is ridiculous. Why do you need 2 or 3 cooldowns, plus trinket effects, plus whatever else to boost your damage. Remove all that crap. It's just bloat. Balance the game around zero cooldowns, or at max one per class.

    While I agree that the number of cooldowns can be overwhelming for new players, it's REALLY boring if you don't have any. It's just a constant repeat of your rotation + procs. Cooldowns (especially some of the more interesting ones like Ascendance) make it a lot more fun to play. If you've ever played a Fire Mage, you'll know what I mean. You only have one real cooldown, and it's just a dot. It doesn't do anything extra. And Fire Mages can be really boring to play.

    My desire to see most cooldowns removed has nothing to do with whether or not it's overwhelming for players. It has everything to do with skill bloat. They are an unnecessary game mechanic that could easily go away, and remove the need for like 6 spaces of hotkeys. (Or more).

    Yes, I understand that some classes might be boring without cooldowns, but that's just poor class design. If fire mages are boring, they need to have their rotation made more interesting. Adding a bunch of situational and timed cooldowns isn't the answer. Their bread and butter abilities need to be improved. Not bloat them up to the point where the class needs 4 full skillbars (or more) to be effective.

  • rorrrorr Registered User regular
    I couldn't disagree more, but I'm interested where they go

This discussion has been closed.