I mean, we don't need a new race or class, it's true. Truthfully we didn't need the Death Knight or the Monk either, as they don't fulfill any roles that didn't already exist. They just added additional flavor and options to a game with a complement of classes that are now nine years old. Everquest has, what, fifteen some-odd races, god knows how many classes at this point, and most of them are redundant, they just add further flavor and options to a game in order to keep it fresh.
I think you mean they add further bloat, blandness, and balance problems (the 3 B's!) to an unfun game that only die hards play. You think WoW has too much "Blizz my class sucks! Why bring an X if you have Y?" That shit is just amplified like crazy in those 20+ class games.
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0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Also, while a new class might or might not be a fun addition, how about instead giving every class a fourth talent spec? (except druids because fuck druids, they can have new races and shapeshift graphics instead). That way, everyone gets something new.
Metzen is not doing much to assuage my misgivings about the lore, characters, and/or storylines for the upcoming expansion.
of course he isn't
lore's dead, haven't you heard? look at the expansion for goodness sake
WoW 5: Death to Lore
I think it's great, personally. I wish we got to go back to the original ahn-qiraji war
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I think i understand the "we're not going back in time" thing.
We - the players - are not going back in time. The way I understand it, Garrosh escapes and goes back in time. We then see the effects of what he accomplishes. The orcs refuse the Burning Legion's offer. Draenor, as a result, doesn't blow up. So what we're seeing is a "what if" story here. The Horde will somehow come to Azeroth to make war on its own accord, maybe by Garrosh getting his father to come cull the tainted orcs or some shit.
Yeah, we really don't need new races, as they've often completely ignored the ones we got.
The Worgen/Draenei syndrome, for instance. The latter is being fixed with Warlords, the former is probably going to be on the down-low still.
If one of the races were Ogre, this would not be a problem because we already know they are getting a bunch of content and an expanded history in this expansion. I'd also wager that Ogre is probably going to be one of the new archaeology digsites for Draenor.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if there is more Ogre content in WoD than Cata had for Worgen.
Little harder for Alliance though. Of course, they could have taken care of this when they were writing the plot (ie. had Alleria show up and lead a faction of High Elves to the alternate-history Draenor to ensure the orcs don't rise to power), or they could just give them Arakoa or something and have it all baked in like Ogres.
While I've got no problem with the lack of a new class (especially since we just got one and they disrupt balance to a far, far greater degree), I think the lack of new races is the expansion missing a huge bullet point.
Also the stupid character cap per server just needs to be abolished anyways and let you put all 50 of your characters wherever you want.
We're not going into Draenors past, we're going to what Draenor would be like now had the Orcs never drank Mannoroths blood; right? So Garrosh went in to the past.
Yet, this is somehow neither time travel (which Garrosh did) nor an alternate reality (which it is, if Outland still exists as the Q&A suggests).
I think i understand the "we're not going back in time" thing.
We - the players - are not going back in time. The way I understand it, Garrosh escapes and goes back in time. We then see the effects of what he accomplishes. The orcs refuse the Burning Legion's offer. Draenor, as a result, doesn't blow up. So what we're seeing is a "what if" story here. The Horde will somehow come to Azeroth to make war on its own accord, maybe by Garrosh getting his father to come cull the tainted orcs or some shit.
So yeah.
that's actually a much more interesting way of doing it
So Garrosh's time travel changed Draenor is somehow invading the non-time travelled Azeroth (which can still, presumably, access blown up Outland?) instead of the Azeroth of that timeline? This is really fucking weird. And kinda dumb.
I think i understand the "we're not going back in time" thing.
We - the players - are not going back in time. The way I understand it, Garrosh escapes and goes back in time. We then see the effects of what he accomplishes. The orcs refuse the Burning Legion's offer. Draenor, as a result, doesn't blow up. So what we're seeing is a "what if" story here. The Horde will somehow come to Azeroth to make war on its own accord, maybe by Garrosh getting his father to come cull the tainted orcs or some shit.
So yeah.
I dunno, this seems like it doesn't make much sense. Like, the whole situation on azeroth would be totally different if the orcs were never demonically possessed. Unless it's like, 'well they aren't possessed by demons but it turns out they were assholes anyway!' which kind of undermines a lot of the premise of the game.
also they'd have to write thrall out of the story, practically
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I think i understand the "we're not going back in time" thing.
We - the players - are not going back in time. The way I understand it, Garrosh escapes and goes back in time. We then see the effects of what he accomplishes. The orcs refuse the Burning Legion's offer. Draenor, as a result, doesn't blow up. So what we're seeing is a "what if" story here. The Horde will somehow come to Azeroth to make war on its own accord, maybe by Garrosh getting his father to come cull the tainted orcs or some shit.
So yeah.
This really isn't that complicated.
Garrosh goes back in time to a point before the consumption of Mannoroth's blood and stops that. He then provides the Horde with tools to mobilize and become meaner. However the expansion is still in the past, just a different past. The threat is that the Iron Horde can come to the future through the same way we went back in the past. So the thirty years of time between now and the second war hasn't taken place, but they're functionally in the present for all intents and purposes, because time travel.
I think i understand the "we're not going back in time" thing.
We - the players - are not going back in time. The way I understand it, Garrosh escapes and goes back in time. We then see the effects of what he accomplishes. The orcs refuse the Burning Legion's offer. Draenor, as a result, doesn't blow up. So what we're seeing is a "what if" story here. The Horde will somehow come to Azeroth to make war on its own accord, maybe by Garrosh getting his father to come cull the tainted orcs or some shit.
So yeah.
If this is indeed what's happening, then Garrosh and all the classic figures would have to be fairly old by the time we get there.
Edit: I believe it's been 30+ years since Warcraft: Orcs and Humans (as I understand it, this is about when Garrosh would have to be traveling back to).
forty on
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Outland still exists because they don't want to have to create new leveling content for 58 to 68.
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Don't think too hard about time travelling alternate reality logic.
+3
CrayonSleeps in the wrong bed.TejasRegistered Userregular
what brings players back is NOT HATING WORLD OF WARCRAFT
of course if players are bored of world of warcraft more world of warcraft isn't enough but guess what if you're bored of world of warcraft YOU'RE NOT GOING TO PLAY WORLD OF WARCRAFT
also fuck high elves as a racial request those would be the most boring fucking race
I don't know, I'm...uhhhh....kind of a prime example of the exact opposite. I was bored and SoO enticed me to come back after being gone a loooooooong time. I'm probably an exception to the rule, but we're out there in some form. I don't know, I've already played Warcraft and Warcraft 2, I really don't need to play it from another perspective.
So Garrosh's time travel changed Draenor is somehow invading the non-time travelled Azeroth (which can still, presumably, access blown up Outland?) instead of the Azeroth of that timeline? This is really fucking weird. And kinda dumb.
Yeah I'm thinking they really didn't think through all the angles of this "non-time travel non-alternate reality" thing.
Are we going to end up with DC/Marvel level variations on realities? Azeroth 5 invading Azeroth Prime with the help of Draenor 15? Will there be an Ultimates splinter WoW in a couple years where they kill off Thrall and replace him with a teenage muslim girl?
It's just alternate timelines, which already existed in Warcraft lore. Nozdormu bound all realities and timelines together to converge at Deathwing's death, which confirms that there are timelines in the first place. So don't worry, there's just an infinite number of realities, timelines, and worlds out there to be milked for expansions.
I think i understand the "we're not going back in time" thing.
We - the players - are not going back in time. The way I understand it, Garrosh escapes and goes back in time. We then see the effects of what he accomplishes. The orcs refuse the Burning Legion's offer. Draenor, as a result, doesn't blow up. So what we're seeing is a "what if" story here. The Horde will somehow come to Azeroth to make war on its own accord, maybe by Garrosh getting his father to come cull the tainted orcs or some shit.
So yeah.
If this is indeed what's happening, then Garrosh and all the classic figures would have to be fairly old by the time we get there.
Not really. Grom was still fairly capable in WC3, which was like 8-10 years beforehand?
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Oh also, Outland still exists from this perspective;
- The Burning Legion returned! Go through the Dark Portal and finish them off sorta.
- The Lich King is making his move! Rally!
- Oh shit the Cataclysm occurred.
- Pandas!
- Why is the Dark Portal changing color? WHOA WHAT THE FUCK ORCS?!
So Draenor and Outland don't exist simultaneously from a continuity standpoint. It exists as a beat in leveling content, but it doesn't reflect the current times. You wouldn't go to WotLK as your level 90 panda and go, "OMG THE LICH KING!"
0
CrayonSleeps in the wrong bed.TejasRegistered Userregular
Pushing toward two dozen races and/or classes is also heavily against the spirit of Blizzard's "concentrated cool" design philosophy. Honestly the current bloat of the game is already straining against that philosophy, but the way to rectify it is definitely not to feel obligated to shove new races and classes into every expansion.
In as much as I fully support this statement and agree with it, I think their original design philosophy was off. I mean, as a core concept they should have started with Paladin/Demon Hunter/Warden/Ranger. The core classes that everyone loves and still want in the game regardless. Death Knight should have never been put in, neither should have Monk...but that was kind of build around the concept of the Pandaren, so I can understand it to an extent. Still, there are core things people want to be that have yet failed to make it into the game. We're hitting level 100, and we've yet to be the epic things we all want to be.
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I think i understand the "we're not going back in time" thing.
We - the players - are not going back in time. The way I understand it, Garrosh escapes and goes back in time. We then see the effects of what he accomplishes. The orcs refuse the Burning Legion's offer. Draenor, as a result, doesn't blow up. So what we're seeing is a "what if" story here. The Horde will somehow come to Azeroth to make war on its own accord, maybe by Garrosh getting his father to come cull the tainted orcs or some shit.
So yeah.
If this is indeed what's happening, then Garrosh and all the classic figures would have to be fairly old by the time we get there.
Edit: I believe it's been 30+ years since Warcraft: Orcs and Humans (as I understand it, this is about when Garrosh would have to be traveling back to).
When the expansion comes out and we get to Draenor, we'll be able to tell what's actually happening. If Garrosh is old, my assumption on "we're not going back in time" was correct. If he's young, then fuck Chris Metzen.
Oh also, Outland still exists from this perspective;
- The Burning Legion returned! Go through the Dark Portal and finish them off sorta.
- The Lich King is making his move! Rally!
- Oh shit the Cataclysm occurred.
- Pandas!
- Why is the Dark Portal changing color? WHOA WHAT THE FUCK ORCS?!
So Draenor and Outland don't exist simultaneously from a continuity standpoint. It exists as a beat in leveling content, but it doesn't reflect the current times. You wouldn't go to WotLK as your level 90 panda and go, "OMG THE LICH KING!"
That makes a little more sense, but it still doesn't account for the fact that Garrosh's time travel changed Draenor without affecting Azeroth. He prevents the orcish corruption, which means no Dark Portal? That would MESS with Azeroth something fierce.
Basically time travel is dumb and rarely ever works well.
Oh also, Outland still exists from this perspective;
- The Burning Legion returned! Go through the Dark Portal and finish them off sorta.
- The Lich King is making his move! Rally!
- Oh shit the Cataclysm occurred.
- Pandas!
- Why is the Dark Portal changing color? WHOA WHAT THE FUCK ORCS?!
So Draenor and Outland don't exist simultaneously from a continuity standpoint. It exists as a beat in leveling content, but it doesn't reflect the current times. You wouldn't go to WotLK as your level 90 panda and go, "OMG THE LICH KING!"
That makes a little more sense, but it still doesn't account for the fact that Garrosh's time travel changed Draenor without affecting Azeroth. He prevents the orcish corruption, which means no Dark Portal? That would MESS with Azeroth something fierce.
Basically time travel is dumb and rarely ever works well.
I agree. This is just the most sense I can make out of what's happening. Maybe Thrall's magic saves currently existing orcs from being Marty McFly'd.
Oh also, Outland still exists from this perspective;
- The Burning Legion returned! Go through the Dark Portal and finish them off sorta.
- The Lich King is making his move! Rally!
- Oh shit the Cataclysm occurred.
- Pandas!
- Why is the Dark Portal changing color? WHOA WHAT THE FUCK ORCS?!
So Draenor and Outland don't exist simultaneously from a continuity standpoint. It exists as a beat in leveling content, but it doesn't reflect the current times. You wouldn't go to WotLK as your level 90 panda and go, "OMG THE LICH KING!"
That makes a little more sense, but it still doesn't account for the fact that Garrosh's time travel changed Draenor without affecting Azeroth. He prevents the orcish corruption, which means no Dark Portal? That would MESS with Azeroth something fierce.
Basically time travel is dumb and rarely ever works well.
alternate timeline
garrosh creates a divergent timeline that always exists in parallel to our own
nothing in our time is destroyed, something is only created elsewhere
very simple, completely explained, and i don't know why they tried to explain it so poorly
+2
CrayonSleeps in the wrong bed.TejasRegistered Userregular
Basically what I'm hearing from Blizzard is tacit admission that they don't have any clue on how to make compelling characters anymore, and having now pretty much tapped out potential villains in the present, are creating a time-travel plot so that they can exploit Azeroth's PAST for antagonists/protagonists.
it would've been really cool if they went with the single-continuity time travel angle and bits and pieces of the old world changed through the expansion. Like, in 6.1 suddenly medivh never opened the dark portal, so karazhan is like a school for magically gifted children or something and deadwind pass is all greened up
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Oh also, Outland still exists from this perspective;
- The Burning Legion returned! Go through the Dark Portal and finish them off sorta.
- The Lich King is making his move! Rally!
- Oh shit the Cataclysm occurred.
- Pandas!
- Why is the Dark Portal changing color? WHOA WHAT THE FUCK ORCS?!
So Draenor and Outland don't exist simultaneously from a continuity standpoint. It exists as a beat in leveling content, but it doesn't reflect the current times. You wouldn't go to WotLK as your level 90 panda and go, "OMG THE LICH KING!"
That makes a little more sense, but it still doesn't account for the fact that Garrosh's time travel changed Draenor without affecting Azeroth. He prevents the orcish corruption, which means no Dark Portal? That would MESS with Azeroth something fierce.
Basically time travel is dumb and rarely ever works well.
alternate timeline
garrosh creates a divergent timeline that always exists in parallel to our own
nothing in our time is destroyed, something is only created elsewhere
very simple, completely explained, and i don't know why they tried to explain it so poorly
So why is he bothering invading OUR timeline rather than the Azeroth on his own? Surely hopping through timelines is a hell of a lot more difficult that just opening the Dark Portal. I guess they don't have a Medivh for the other side, but it's still rather silly.
Posts
Maybe. But now the Mythbusters team will finally get a chance to put that Myth to the test! Will it be busted or confirmed? Find out Summer 2014!
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And that my favorite character would no longer have a butt-ugly textures compared to his armor.
Oh god I might come back for this.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
WoW 5: Death to Lore
I think it's great, personally. I wish we got to go back to the original ahn-qiraji war
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
We - the players - are not going back in time. The way I understand it, Garrosh escapes and goes back in time. We then see the effects of what he accomplishes. The orcs refuse the Burning Legion's offer. Draenor, as a result, doesn't blow up. So what we're seeing is a "what if" story here. The Horde will somehow come to Azeroth to make war on its own accord, maybe by Garrosh getting his father to come cull the tainted orcs or some shit.
So yeah.
If one of the races were Ogre, this would not be a problem because we already know they are getting a bunch of content and an expanded history in this expansion. I'd also wager that Ogre is probably going to be one of the new archaeology digsites for Draenor.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if there is more Ogre content in WoD than Cata had for Worgen.
Little harder for Alliance though. Of course, they could have taken care of this when they were writing the plot (ie. had Alleria show up and lead a faction of High Elves to the alternate-history Draenor to ensure the orcs don't rise to power), or they could just give them Arakoa or something and have it all baked in like Ogres.
While I've got no problem with the lack of a new class (especially since we just got one and they disrupt balance to a far, far greater degree), I think the lack of new races is the expansion missing a huge bullet point.
Also the stupid character cap per server just needs to be abolished anyways and let you put all 50 of your characters wherever you want.
We're not going into Draenors past, we're going to what Draenor would be like now had the Orcs never drank Mannoroths blood; right? So Garrosh went in to the past.
Yet, this is somehow neither time travel (which Garrosh did) nor an alternate reality (which it is, if Outland still exists as the Q&A suggests).
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
We then get alternate 1985-Azeroth / Draenor.
that's actually a much more interesting way of doing it
they're not really merged, just connected, so you'd connect to whatever realm you have each character on now
I dunno, this seems like it doesn't make much sense. Like, the whole situation on azeroth would be totally different if the orcs were never demonically possessed. Unless it's like, 'well they aren't possessed by demons but it turns out they were assholes anyway!' which kind of undermines a lot of the premise of the game.
also they'd have to write thrall out of the story, practically
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
This really isn't that complicated.
Garrosh goes back in time to a point before the consumption of Mannoroth's blood and stops that. He then provides the Horde with tools to mobilize and become meaner. However the expansion is still in the past, just a different past. The threat is that the Iron Horde can come to the future through the same way we went back in the past. So the thirty years of time between now and the second war hasn't taken place, but they're functionally in the present for all intents and purposes, because time travel.
Edit: I believe it's been 30+ years since Warcraft: Orcs and Humans (as I understand it, this is about when Garrosh would have to be traveling back to).
I don't know, I'm...uhhhh....kind of a prime example of the exact opposite. I was bored and SoO enticed me to come back after being gone a loooooooong time. I'm probably an exception to the rule, but we're out there in some form. I don't know, I've already played Warcraft and Warcraft 2, I really don't need to play it from another perspective.
Yeah I'm thinking they really didn't think through all the angles of this "non-time travel non-alternate reality" thing.
Are we going to end up with DC/Marvel level variations on realities? Azeroth 5 invading Azeroth Prime with the help of Draenor 15? Will there be an Ultimates splinter WoW in a couple years where they kill off Thrall and replace him with a teenage muslim girl?
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Not really. Grom was still fairly capable in WC3, which was like 8-10 years beforehand?
- The Burning Legion returned! Go through the Dark Portal and finish them off sorta.
- The Lich King is making his move! Rally!
- Oh shit the Cataclysm occurred.
- Pandas!
- Why is the Dark Portal changing color? WHOA WHAT THE FUCK ORCS?!
So Draenor and Outland don't exist simultaneously from a continuity standpoint. It exists as a beat in leveling content, but it doesn't reflect the current times. You wouldn't go to WotLK as your level 90 panda and go, "OMG THE LICH KING!"
In as much as I fully support this statement and agree with it, I think their original design philosophy was off. I mean, as a core concept they should have started with Paladin/Demon Hunter/Warden/Ranger. The core classes that everyone loves and still want in the game regardless. Death Knight should have never been put in, neither should have Monk...but that was kind of build around the concept of the Pandaren, so I can understand it to an extent. Still, there are core things people want to be that have yet failed to make it into the game. We're hitting level 100, and we've yet to be the epic things we all want to be.
When the expansion comes out and we get to Draenor, we'll be able to tell what's actually happening. If Garrosh is old, my assumption on "we're not going back in time" was correct. If he's young, then fuck Chris Metzen.
That makes a little more sense, but it still doesn't account for the fact that Garrosh's time travel changed Draenor without affecting Azeroth. He prevents the orcish corruption, which means no Dark Portal? That would MESS with Azeroth something fierce.
Basically time travel is dumb and rarely ever works well.
"You're safe now, back on the ol' Draenor."
"BACK ON THE OL' DRAENOR?"
i am living my epic power fantasy
I agree. This is just the most sense I can make out of what's happening. Maybe Thrall's magic saves currently existing orcs from being Marty McFly'd.
alternate timeline
garrosh creates a divergent timeline that always exists in parallel to our own
nothing in our time is destroyed, something is only created elsewhere
very simple, completely explained, and i don't know why they tried to explain it so poorly
You're still not Demon Hunter or Warden level of cool, though. YOU NEVER WILL BE, YOU HEAR!!?
Kill me now.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Demon Hunters are kind of putzes and Rogues are slightly less armored Wardens.
So why is he bothering invading OUR timeline rather than the Azeroth on his own? Surely hopping through timelines is a hell of a lot more difficult that just opening the Dark Portal. I guess they don't have a Medivh for the other side, but it's still rather silly.