I thought it doesn't translate literally toe east, not just "the place east of where we are now", but the whole area ranging from the Turkey to Japan. Not racist or anything, just kind of an archaic way to refer to a place.
It translates literally to "the east". Occident is the antonym, which translates literally to "the west."
And yeah, that's the point. They're fun archaic terms. Thinking that oh it's archaic it must be offensive is bollocks.
The term has been used with racist intent, though. Kind of on the same level with calling half the world "Indian" I think.
And "negro" literally means black. You still shouldn't go around calling black people that, because context is important.
yeah, not the same thing. The context doesn't make being offended by "the orient" - not being called "an oriental" even, just "the orient" - not silly as fuck.
I wasn't under the impression that they were the same thing. You just shouldn't focus solely on the literal meaning of a term when there are broader implications to it.
Yeah, and generally, I agree with you. I'm just saying, in this case, what implications?
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simonwolfi can feel a differencetoday, a differenceRegistered Userregular
And "negro" literally means black. You still shouldn't go around calling black people that, because context is important.
yeah, not the same thing. The context doesn't make being offended by "the orient" - not being called "an oriental" even, just "the orient" - not silly as fuck.
I wasn't under the impression that they were the same thing. You just shouldn't focus solely on the literal meaning of a term when there are broader implications to it.
Yeah, and generally, I agree with you. I'm just saying, in this case, what implications?
Not a big reader of Said, I take it
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
You don't call people oriental because of a history of racism attached to that term.
Just like you don't call people negroes because of a history of racism attached to that term.
It only doesn't make sense if you're a robot who doesn't understand other people have feelings about things.
Yeah I don't get why saying oriental is consider wrong even though I am part Asian myself.
Historically the word has not been used to mean "eastern". It's been used for hundreds of years now to otherise whatever "foreign" group the privileged have been fixated on the time. "The far east" didn't start to become "the orient" in English until the mid-1800's. Before that the term was mostly used to refer to basically anywhere brown people lived, including most of North Africa.
No, this is just plain wrong.
It's never been used to refer to africa. Also, the far east was the far orient.
The orient express just went to turkey, the near orient. The old latin use of it was of course centered on the Mediterranean, so orient way back when referred to things east of the meditteranean.
And "negro" literally means black. You still shouldn't go around calling black people that, because context is important.
yeah, not the same thing. The context doesn't make being offended by "the orient" - not being called "an oriental" even, just "the orient" - not silly as fuck.
I wasn't under the impression that they were the same thing. You just shouldn't focus solely on the literal meaning of a term when there are broader implications to it.
Yeah, and generally, I agree with you. I'm just saying, in this case, what implications?
Like I explained before, the fact that "the orient" has historically been used, usually completely arbitrarily, to refer to anything from Marrakech to Jerusalem to Istanbul to Beijing, usually coinciding with a widespread othering of the people from those places.
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The Razor's EdgeSimple, but effectiveAin't nothing fancyRegistered Userregular
Yeah I don't get why saying oriental is consider wrong even though I am part Asian myself.
Historically the word has not been used to mean "eastern". It's been used for hundreds of years now to otherise whatever "foreign" group the privileged have been fixated on the time. "The far east" didn't start to become "the orient" in English until the mid-1800's. Before that the term was mostly used to refer to basically anywhere brown people lived, including most of North Africa.
I thought it doesn't translate literally toe east, not just "the place east of where we are now", but the whole area ranging from the Turkey to Japan. Not racist or anything, just kind of an archaic way to refer to a place.
It translates literally to "the east". Occident is the antonym, which translates literally to "the west."
And yeah, that's the point. They're fun archaic terms. Thinking that oh it's archaic it must be offensive is bollocks.
The term has been used with racist intent, though. Kind of on the same level with calling half the world "Indian" I think.
"oriental" is maybe an iffy thing to call someone, yeah. It has just the same meaning as "asian", but the implications are there.
That those implications somehow stretch to "the orient" is something I reject
and that "orient" was just some way of saying lol foreignstan - it most certainly was not. It had a very specific geographical meaning.
Yeah I don't get why saying oriental is consider wrong even though I am part Asian myself.
Historically the word has not been used to mean "eastern". It's been used for hundreds of years now to otherise whatever "foreign" group the privileged have been fixated on the time. "The far east" didn't start to become "the orient" in English until the mid-1800's. Before that the term was mostly used to refer to basically anywhere brown people lived, including most of North Africa.
No, this is just plain wrong.
It's never been used to refer to africa.
You are misinformed.
Uh-huh. When was it used like that? Where?
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HerrCronIt that wickedly supports taxationRegistered Userregular
I thought it doesn't translate literally toe east, not just "the place east of where we are now", but the whole area ranging from the Turkey to Japan. Not racist or anything, just kind of an archaic way to refer to a place.
It translates literally to "the east". Occident is the antonym, which translates literally to "the west."
And yeah, that's the point. They're fun archaic terms. Thinking that oh it's archaic it must be offensive is bollocks.
The term has been used with racist intent, though. Kind of on the same level with calling half the world "Indian" I think.
"oriental" is maybe an iffy thing to call someone, yeah. It has just the same meaning as "asian", but the implications are there.
That those implications somehow stretch to "the orient" is something I reject
and that "orient" was just some way of saying lol foreignstan - it most certainly was not. It had a very specific geographical meaning.
calling a quarter of the globe "specific" is a bit of a stretch
Allegedly a voice of reason.
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The Razor's EdgeSimple, but effectiveAin't nothing fancyRegistered Userregular
and that "orient" was just some way of saying lol foreignstan - it most certainly was not. It had a very specific geographical meaning.
I'm pretty sure the last time it had a "very specific" meaning was when it was the name of a Roman prefecture. Its meaning has changed numerous times throughout history and has almost always been rather nebulous.
The Razor's Edge on
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
I'm not aware of there being any problem with calling asia "the orient", though.
And it's still acceptable to refer to objects as "oriental"
Just thought I could for being part Asian myself but I can understand if I can't say that as well.
I would err on the side of caution on the larger internets, unless it is obvious you're being funny/ironic/are referring to the history of the word. I mean, it's a silly reason to get people mad at you.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Yeah I don't get why saying oriental is consider wrong even though I am part Asian myself.
Historically the word has not been used to mean "eastern". It's been used for hundreds of years now to otherise whatever "foreign" group the privileged have been fixated on the time. "The far east" didn't start to become "the orient" in English until the mid-1800's. Before that the term was mostly used to refer to basically anywhere brown people lived, including most of North Africa.
No, this is just plain wrong.
It's never been used to refer to africa.
You are misinformed.
Uh-huh. When was it used like that? Where?
Originally the term referred to Egypt, the Levant, and adjoining areas.[2] Later the term became synonymous with Islam and Judaism and its scope expanded both eastward and westward to include all non-European areas of Eurasian civilization, including North Africa as far west as Morocco.[2]
I thought it doesn't translate literally toe east, not just "the place east of where we are now", but the whole area ranging from the Turkey to Japan. Not racist or anything, just kind of an archaic way to refer to a place.
It translates literally to "the east". Occident is the antonym, which translates literally to "the west."
And yeah, that's the point. They're fun archaic terms. Thinking that oh it's archaic it must be offensive is bollocks.
The term has been used with racist intent, though. Kind of on the same level with calling half the world "Indian" I think.
"oriental" is maybe an iffy thing to call someone, yeah. It has just the same meaning as "asian", but the implications are there.
That those implications somehow stretch to "the orient" is something I reject
and that "orient" was just some way of saying lol foreignstan - it most certainly was not. It had a very specific geographical meaning.
calling a quarter of the globe "specific" is a bit of a stretch
No it isn't. "northern hemisphere" has a even clearer and more specific meaning, yet, it refers to half the globe.
Just thought I could for being part Asian myself but I can understand if I can't say that as well.
I would err on the side of caution on the larger internets, unless it is obvious you're being funny/ironic/are referring to the history of the word. I mean, it's a silly reason to get people mad at you.
The Razor's EdgeSimple, but effectiveAin't nothing fancyRegistered Userregular
I'm also very fond of Irina, though. As in Ири́на, so long "ee" sounds. It means "Peace", which I think is lovely.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Guys, guys! My favorite time of year is coming up. No, not Thanksgiving or Christmas. I'm talking about the Miss Universe costumes of the world pageant.
How will Miss America top her jingoistic costume from last year?
And can anything beat Pirate Bahamas?
Only about a week more to find out!
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
There's an awesome burger joint in Edinburgh that is the best and I love it, but Girl Raven hates it because it's way too cool for her or something. Her buddy just arrived and I was hoping she'd be the swing vote in how great this burger place is, but alas. Vegetarian. :'<
So! Vegetarian girl was intrigued... We went there, turns out they have vegetarian and low carb options. She combined them to awesome effect, getting a slice of grilled haloumi amid a tasty salad. Other Raven is kinda annoyed she didn't notice these options.
I got a bacon cheezberg with fries n the best vanilla shake
Posts
The term has been used with racist intent, though. Kind of on the same level with calling half the world "Indian" I think.
Not a big reader of Said, I take it
Just like you don't call people negroes because of a history of racism attached to that term.
It only doesn't make sense if you're a robot who doesn't understand other people have feelings about things.
No, this is just plain wrong.
It's never been used to refer to africa. Also, the far east was the far orient.
The orient express just went to turkey, the near orient. The old latin use of it was of course centered on the Mediterranean, so orient way back when referred to things east of the meditteranean.
really?
Like I explained before, the fact that "the orient" has historically been used, usually completely arbitrarily, to refer to anything from Marrakech to Jerusalem to Istanbul to Beijing, usually coinciding with a widespread othering of the people from those places.
You are misinformed.
"oriental" is maybe an iffy thing to call someone, yeah. It has just the same meaning as "asian", but the implications are there.
That those implications somehow stretch to "the orient" is something I reject
and that "orient" was just some way of saying lol foreignstan - it most certainly was not. It had a very specific geographical meaning.
Uh-huh. When was it used like that? Where?
I think that's been a thing for a few years.
....I don't understand it either.
calling a quarter of the globe "specific" is a bit of a stretch
I'm pretty sure the last time it had a "very specific" meaning was when it was the name of a Roman prefecture. Its meaning has changed numerous times throughout history and has almost always been rather nebulous.
And it's still acceptable to refer to objects as "oriental"
Just not people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient
No it isn't. "northern hemisphere" has a even clearer and more specific meaning, yet, it refers to half the globe.
Alright.
or, well, irishwoman. Man gaelic names are such sexy combinations of letters.
Mice embryo, nerves thereof
"Siobhán Bear Surname".
@shivahn
How will Miss America top her jingoistic costume from last year?
And can anything beat Pirate Bahamas?
Only about a week more to find out!
So! Vegetarian girl was intrigued... We went there, turns out they have vegetarian and low carb options. She combined them to awesome effect, getting a slice of grilled haloumi amid a tasty salad. Other Raven is kinda annoyed she didn't notice these options.
I got a bacon cheezberg with fries n the best vanilla shake
Such heaven
So tasty
Wooooow
Well I am one 16th Norwegian.
I was extremely surprised to scroll past an image of a mouse embryo's PNS and find that that wasn't what I was called for :P
Also all versions of this name are excellent, yes.
I see.