Unrelated: My apologies to @Bearmauls. You and I argued (congenially) last night over whether BAP decreases LRM lock time, and I said I was convinced it did, but you were skeptical. Turns out, I'm wrong, at least if current evidence is to be believed.
Stupid complicated game.
Wait, what??? BAP is supposed to decrease LRM lock time i thought. Or does it just decrease time to acquire info of a target?
Unrelated: My apologies to @Bearmauls. You and I argued (congenially) last night over whether BAP decreases LRM lock time, and I said I was convinced it did, but you were skeptical. Turns out, I'm wrong, at least if current evidence is to be believed.
Stupid complicated game.
BAP increases your max sensor range and reduces the effectiveness of ECM at short range. So super handy for SSRM, less so for LRM.
So, after three straight, glorious evenings of stompybots, the itch to play is stronger than ever. I'm looking over the Saber Reinforcements, since I'm nearing the end of Eliting out the Phoenix package mechs.
Can anyone pitch to me why I should plunk down $30 for Wolverines and Griffins, as opposed to, say, $30 of MC for future bays/premium time?
$30 gets you roughly 27,000,000 bills worth of mechs plus 6 free mech bays.
$30 gets you 6500 MC. 1800 MC for sabre value of bays = 4700 MC left. 2500 MC for 30 days premium = 2200 MC to blow on camo/items or a smaller premium time package.
Now assuming you average 160,000 bills a match (average for premium + hero bonus), you would need to play 168.75 matches to earn the 27,000,000 bills to buy all 6 mechs. At a fair pace of 5 matches per hour, you would need to play for 33.75 hours. Or 1.125 hours per day for every day of that 30 day premium time.
So... Up to you.
Pro: Raw value is good.
Con: Owning six more mechs at the 55t weight.
Thinking more about it, I think I'd like to diversify the mech weights in my stable (thinking super-long term for when weight limits become a thing). So the prospect of owning a bunch more mechs at a weight I've already got covered with Shadow Hawks (that I love) isn't really grabbing me. Still, value is value, so maybe I'll grab it anyway; I'd love to know what the specs on the Wolverine and Griffin are going to be, to compare them against the Shadow Hawk though.
OBN Mechlab:
The COM-2D max engine rating is wrong. It should be 210, not 240 like the rest of the Commandos.
The COM-1D max armor is wrong for the CT. It should be 32, not 36.
I dont know if the OBN lab has the wolverine or griffin yet, but smurfy has 1 of each varient listed with hardpoint locations and tubes. But im not sure if those came from the datafiles or just speculation.
So, after three straight, glorious evenings of stompybots, the itch to play is stronger than ever. I'm looking over the Saber Reinforcements, since I'm nearing the end of Eliting out the Phoenix package mechs.
Can anyone pitch to me why I should plunk down $30 for Wolverines and Griffins, as opposed to, say, $30 of MC for future bays/premium time?
$30 gets you roughly 27,000,000 bills worth of mechs plus 6 free mech bays.
$30 gets you 6500 MC. 1800 MC for sabre value of bays = 4700 MC left. 2500 MC for 30 days premium = 2200 MC to blow on camo/items or a smaller premium time package.
Now assuming you average 160,000 bills a match (average for premium + hero bonus), you would need to play 168.75 matches to earn the 27,000,000 bills to buy all 6 mechs. At a fair pace of 5 matches per hour, you would need to play for 33.75 hours. Or 1.125 hours per day for every day of that 30 day premium time.
So... Up to you.
Pro: Raw value is good.
Con: Owning six more mechs at the 55t weight.
Thinking more about it, I think I'd like to diversify the mech weights in my stable (thinking super-long term for when weight limits become a thing). So the prospect of owning a bunch more mechs at a weight I've already got covered with Shadow Hawks (that I love) isn't really grabbing me. Still, value is value, so maybe I'll grab it anyway; I'd love to know what the specs on the Wolverine and Griffin are going to be, to compare them against the Shadow Hawk though.
OBN Mechlab:
The COM-2D max engine rating is wrong. It should be 210, not 240 like the rest of the Commandos.
The COM-1D max armor is wrong for the CT. It should be 32, not 36.
I dont know if the OBN lab has the wolverine or griffin yet, but smurfy has 1 of each varient listed with hardpoint locations and tubes. But im not sure if those came from the datafiles or just speculation.
I was certain we did at some point, may have been before the migration to a database backend... :-x
Unrelated: My apologies to @Bearmauls. You and I argued (congenially) last night over whether BAP decreases LRM lock time, and I said I was convinced it did, but you were skeptical. Turns out, I'm wrong, at least if current evidence is to be believed.
Stupid complicated game.
BAP increases your max sensor range and reduces the effectiveness of ECM at short range. So super handy for SSRM, less so for LRM.
Increases targeting range by 25%
Increases the speed at which more information about the target is displayed by 25%
It allows detection of shut down mechs when within 120m.
Stacks with sensor range modules.
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NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
Unrelated: My apologies to @Bearmauls. You and I argued (congenially) last night over whether BAP decreases LRM lock time, and I said I was convinced it did, but you were skeptical. Turns out, I'm wrong, at least if current evidence is to be believed.
Stupid complicated game.
Wait, what??? BAP is supposed to decrease LRM lock time i thought. Or does it just decrease time to acquire info of a target?
Which is a bummer, because I feel like there was a substantial difference in my performance pre- and post-BAP using my LRM Battlemaster, (I performed better after loading the BAP).
FWIW That command chair post neglects to mention that BAP counters ECM within 150m which was part of patch notes for patch 1.2.223 so unless that got rolled back in a later patch keep that in mind. Makes BAP + streak useful and BAP on scouts in general useful if you have the extra 1.5 tons.
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NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
edited November 2013
Oh, absolutely. My SSRM builds almost universally mount BAP at this point. The benefits are just too good to overlook, to me.
So, some theorycrafting as I plan my purchases for the foreseeable future. Looking at the Cicada, the ECM variant has the odd single ballistic mount. In the absence of a D-DC in the assault blob, I wonder if this variant could serve as a alternate source of ECM while still providing some medium-mech punch, without sacrificing all of it's speed.
The goal would be to 1) cover the assault blob with ECM, 2) provide a reasonable punch to supplement the blob's firepower, and 3) preserve enough speed to position yourself where needed. Thoughts?
My thought is there needs to be a mech >40 <100 tons with ECM. :-) I think a RVN-3L does the same job better for 5 tons less and has enough additional speed to truly scout if needed.
I do enjoy the cicadas. The 3M runs 1LL and 3ML, but its only ok. I want to try it with an AC2, but it would lose quite a bit of speed. If you stay with the blob, 110kph would be more than enough to stay out of the focus fire.
That XL245 would make it really slow... But it could work.
Edit: 99kph before tweak... Ehh. Not too bad i guess.
Just got back to playing a few games last night after not having played for about 2 1/2 weeks. The game "feels" different. I piloted several mechs, lights through assaults, and maneuvering seemed off. Also, did they add new effects? Lasers, PPCs and ACs seem to have changed visually. I haven't changed any settings and they were not reset during the patch updates.
Could just be me and my time away. Stompy robot withdrawal symptoms???
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NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
Stompy robot withdrawal, obvs. Pretty sure nothing graphical has changed in several patches. The only thing of note was they recently added camera shake for nearby impacts, e.g. a mech lands from a jump nearby, or an artillery strike hits nearby without striking you. You can actually see this when the game loads, as the matchmaker pops in the last few mechs after you.
So did they physically make the CT of the Orion any smaller on the actual model, or just reduce the size of the CT hitbox?
Well, one of those would (theoretically) be a quick, easy fix, and the other would require redoing a mech. Which do you think PGI would actually do?
Considering that they've never, to my knowledge, remodeled or even rescaled any of the mechs and only ever adjusted hitboxes. Though I didn't even think they'd adjusted the Orion yet?
So did they physically make the CT of the Orion any smaller on the actual model, or just reduce the size of the CT hitbox?
Well, one of those would (theoretically) be a quick, easy fix, and the other would require redoing a mech. Which do you think PGI would actually do?
Right. I'm just seeing if anybody knows for certain.
Considering that they've never, to my knowledge, remodeled or even rescaled any of the mechs and only ever adjusted hitboxes. Though I didn't even think they'd adjusted the Orion yet?
Hitbox fixes for the Orion and several others were in the Tuesday patch, dog.
Matches in the Orion seem to be going a little better, I don't die if somebody breathes in my direction now. Can't tell if it really made any difference, or if it's just luck/the power of suggestion making me play better, though.
Gaslight on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I knew that there were hitbox fixes, I just didn't know the Orion was in this batch.
Which is a bummer, because I feel like there was a substantial difference in my performance pre- and post-BAP using my LRM Battlemaster, (I performed better after loading the BAP).
All of my serious LRM mechs run BAP to prevent one ECM light from shutting down your main weapon system just by sitting next to you. There are plenty of times where I feel fine ignoring the Spider circling me in favor of dumping LRMs on an approaching Atlas's head, and BAP lets me do that.
If you want faster locks (and you absolutely do, as it opens up many more firing opportunities) you want Artemis combined with TAG. Artemis is completely worth it on an LRM-heavy mech as it concentrates the fire on center mass rather than splashing it all over the place and gives faster locks. Tag stacks with Artemis for even faster locks and even better target tracking and center mass fire concentration.
TLDR: Artemis+Tag+BAP+Target Decay Module+Sensor Range Module are all necessary if you want to LRM boat
Which is a bummer, because I feel like there was a substantial difference in my performance pre- and post-BAP using my LRM Battlemaster, (I performed better after loading the BAP).
All of my serious LRM mechs run BAP to prevent one ECM light from shutting down your main weapon system just by sitting next to you. There are plenty of times where I feel fine ignoring the Spider circling me in favor of dumping LRMs on an approaching Atlas's head, and BAP lets me do that.
If you want faster locks (and you absolutely do, as it opens up many more firing opportunities) you want Artemis combined with TAG. Artemis is completely worth it on an LRM-heavy mech as it concentrates the fire on center mass rather than splashing it all over the place and gives faster locks. Tag stacks with Artemis for even faster locks and even better target tracking and center mass fire concentration.
TLDR: Artemis+Tag+BAP+Target Decay Module+Sensor Range Module are all necessary if you want to LRM boat
Not to mention that your teammates will dump Lurms on an enemy that is being constantly tagged by you, getting some quick team coordination going. I know I dump missiles on tagged enemies...
Sensor Range is absolutely not necessary on an LRM boat.
Default sensor range is 800m or so, which is at the very edge of what you should ever send LRMs even at a stationary disconnected mech.
BAP will already be extending your range if you do equip that.
TAG tops out at 750m too, and has immediate fall off.
Sensor Range is useful on BAP & SSRM because it weakens ECM, or on scouts, to help you relay target info on mechs that are further out, and lets you spot them before they can spot you.
Sensor Range is absolutely not necessary on an LRM boat.
Default sensor range is 800m or so, which is at the very edge of what you should ever send LRMs even at a stationary disconnected mech.
BAP will already be extending your range if you do equip that. TAG tops out at 750m too, and has immediate fall off.
Sensor Range is useful on BAP & SSRM because it weakens ECM, or on scouts, to help you relay target info on mechs that are further out, and lets you spot them before they can spot you.
Just so there are no misunderstandings: TAG has a max range of 750m. Beyond 750m it doesn't work anymore. There is no effectivity falloff over distance with TAG.
I don't use Sensor Range for extending the max sensor range- I do it to extend the ECM free targeting zone to 250m from 200m. Although I agree that isn't really "necessary", which is why I put it at the end of the list which in my mind I organized in order of importance, but yeah, I'll concede that it isn't completely mandatory like some of the other items on that list.
"Adv Sensor mode 2/2 will let you target the ECM protected mech at 250m instead of 200m. Basically it increases the range you can target and relay info on an ECM protected mech before you are in the ECM bubble and can no longer relay info.
Being within 180m and switching your ECM to counter will kill the ECM bubble entirely making the enemy sensor visible by your entire team at any range their sensors will allow, presuming there are no other opposing disrupt ECM mechs in the area also. " http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/103831-ecm-advanced-sensor-range/
To further flesh this out, does anybody know if the Sensor Range module's anti-ECM effect is improved by the targeting range boost of BAP? Are Targeting Range and Sensor Range two different concepts or is that just the way they worded it? If BAP and Adv. Sensor Range both additively increase sensor range by 25% of base sensor range (800m) so 800+200+200 for 1200m, and ECM reduces enemy mechs' targeting range by 75%, does that add up to 300m free targeting if you have both?
To further flesh this out, does anybody know if the Sensor Range module's anti-ECM effect is improved by the targeting range boost of BAP? Are Targeting Range and Sensor Range two different concepts or is that just the way they worded it? If BAP and Adv. Sensor Range both additively increase sensor range by 25% of base sensor range (800m) so 800+200+200 for 1200m, and ECM reduces enemy mechs' targeting range by 75%, does that add up to 300m free targeting if you have both?
Yes it is. Not sure if it comes to 300m, but that's outside of the ECM bubble anyway, isn't it?
The ECM bubble is 180m, the BAP anti-ECM radius is 150m, and, theoretically, BAP+Adv. Sensor Range increases your max sensor range to 1200m and should allow you to target an enemy ECM mech up to 300m after the 75% targeting range reduction, but I can only find references for the 250m range with Adv. Sensor Range, nothing about the BAP Adv. Sensor Range combo.
NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
Oh man. My next chassis was going to be Commandos or Cicadas. Now I have to think real hard if this Cicada is worth it. It's even the ECM variant! (That's how they got me on the Spider sale a month or so back)
BAP is super important on streak builds because almost all of the most popular light builds run ECM. Especially if you wind up engaging 2-3 lights, you're almost certain to run into it.
also I'm not sure how the mechanics actually work out, but I'm pretty sure BAP+ Adv. sensor range still leaves you with a 250m ECM counter. I seem to occasionally run into that little 20m window on my kintaro.
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Having new games to play has made me a lot less angry at MWO.
Now I focus my "mad at videogame" rage at BF4, which is very much deserving of this torch.
I half kid. Now I just look at the awful development of MWO and toxic stupid of their developers and just chuckle and say "Oh, you"
0
BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
I tend to put an LPL on the arm mostly because it synergises better with the ballistics and missiles, which for me tend to be SRMs/SSRMs and triple MGs.
I swear I get the worst pub teams. I was on Tourmaline Desert earlier and I thought I had my team at my back to push on a few mechs. I engaged an Atlas, I saw some other guys take out a Centurion. I turn away from the dead Atlas to find everyone gone, a damaged Dragon coming at me. I take out the Dragon with a few rounds of LB10x, then the entire rest of their team crests a ridge and blows me way the hell up.
Where was my team? Chasing a pair of lights across the map.
Posts
Wait, what??? BAP is supposed to decrease LRM lock time i thought. Or does it just decrease time to acquire info of a target?
BAP increases your max sensor range and reduces the effectiveness of ECM at short range. So super handy for SSRM, less so for LRM.
MWO: Adamski
I dont know if the OBN lab has the wolverine or griffin yet, but smurfy has 1 of each varient listed with hardpoint locations and tubes. But im not sure if those came from the datafiles or just speculation.
I was certain we did at some point, may have been before the migration to a database backend... :-x
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
From the command chair:
BEAGLE ACTIVE PROBE (BAP)
Increases targeting range by 25%
Increases the speed at which more information about the target is displayed by 25%
It allows detection of shut down mechs when within 120m.
Stacks with sensor range modules.
Just info acquisition. Yeah, I know. I felt like this is true, but nothing I've seen today (on further review) substantiates that LRM lock speed is increased with BAP. There's even a Youtube video demonstrating no difference, from as recently as August.
Which is a bummer, because I feel like there was a substantial difference in my performance pre- and post-BAP using my LRM Battlemaster, (I performed better after loading the BAP).
So, some theorycrafting as I plan my purchases for the foreseeable future. Looking at the Cicada, the ECM variant has the odd single ballistic mount. In the absence of a D-DC in the assault blob, I wonder if this variant could serve as a alternate source of ECM while still providing some medium-mech punch, without sacrificing all of it's speed.
ECM Bot [CDA-3M]: GECM, LB10X, 3xMLAS, 245XL, DHS, Endo, Ferro
The goal would be to 1) cover the assault blob with ECM, 2) provide a reasonable punch to supplement the blob's firepower, and 3) preserve enough speed to position yourself where needed. Thoughts?
That XL245 would make it really slow... But it could work.
Edit: 99kph before tweak... Ehh. Not too bad i guess.
Could just be me and my time away. Stompy robot withdrawal symptoms???
Well, one of those would (theoretically) be a quick, easy fix, and the other would require redoing a mech. Which do you think PGI would actually do?
Considering that they've never, to my knowledge, remodeled or even rescaled any of the mechs and only ever adjusted hitboxes. Though I didn't even think they'd adjusted the Orion yet?
Right. I'm just seeing if anybody knows for certain.
Hitbox fixes for the Orion and several others were in the Tuesday patch, dog.
Matches in the Orion seem to be going a little better, I don't die if somebody breathes in my direction now. Can't tell if it really made any difference, or if it's just luck/the power of suggestion making me play better, though.
All of my serious LRM mechs run BAP to prevent one ECM light from shutting down your main weapon system just by sitting next to you. There are plenty of times where I feel fine ignoring the Spider circling me in favor of dumping LRMs on an approaching Atlas's head, and BAP lets me do that.
If you want faster locks (and you absolutely do, as it opens up many more firing opportunities) you want Artemis combined with TAG. Artemis is completely worth it on an LRM-heavy mech as it concentrates the fire on center mass rather than splashing it all over the place and gives faster locks. Tag stacks with Artemis for even faster locks and even better target tracking and center mass fire concentration.
TLDR: Artemis+Tag+BAP+Target Decay Module+Sensor Range Module are all necessary if you want to LRM boat
Not to mention that your teammates will dump Lurms on an enemy that is being constantly tagged by you, getting some quick team coordination going. I know I dump missiles on tagged enemies...
Default sensor range is 800m or so, which is at the very edge of what you should ever send LRMs even at a stationary disconnected mech.
BAP will already be extending your range if you do equip that.
TAG tops out at 750m too, and has immediate fall off.
Sensor Range is useful on BAP & SSRM because it weakens ECM, or on scouts, to help you relay target info on mechs that are further out, and lets you spot them before they can spot you.
MWO: Adamski
Just so there are no misunderstandings: TAG has a max range of 750m. Beyond 750m it doesn't work anymore. There is no effectivity falloff over distance with TAG.
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
"Adv Sensor mode 2/2 will let you target the ECM protected mech at 250m instead of 200m. Basically it increases the range you can target and relay info on an ECM protected mech before you are in the ECM bubble and can no longer relay info.
Being within 180m and switching your ECM to counter will kill the ECM bubble entirely making the enemy sensor visible by your entire team at any range their sensors will allow, presuming there are no other opposing disrupt ECM mechs in the area also. "
http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/103831-ecm-advanced-sensor-range/
To further flesh this out, does anybody know if the Sensor Range module's anti-ECM effect is improved by the targeting range boost of BAP? Are Targeting Range and Sensor Range two different concepts or is that just the way they worded it? If BAP and Adv. Sensor Range both additively increase sensor range by 25% of base sensor range (800m) so 800+200+200 for 1200m, and ECM reduces enemy mechs' targeting range by 75%, does that add up to 300m free targeting if you have both?
Yes it is. Not sure if it comes to 300m, but that's outside of the ECM bubble anyway, isn't it?
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
http://mwomercs.com/news/2013/11/760-funky-town-sale
edit: shit... i already have one...
also I'm not sure how the mechanics actually work out, but I'm pretty sure BAP+ Adv. sensor range still leaves you with a 250m ECM counter. I seem to occasionally run into that little 20m window on my kintaro.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Not to be excessively negative, but... no robot-fucking shit, genius.
With that level of understatement of the obvious, it's no wonder PGI didn't prioritize something like that in the very first days of closed beta.
I guess I just trust that they'll get it sorted out.
Well, he did say "very".
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
[SHD-2H]: AMS, 3xSRM4, LPLS, 345XL, DHS, Endo, Ferro
Might switch the LPL out for a PPC, depends on how I feel about it.
Now I focus my "mad at videogame" rage at BF4, which is very much deserving of this torch.
I half kid. Now I just look at the awful development of MWO and toxic stupid of their developers and just chuckle and say "Oh, you"
Where was my team? Chasing a pair of lights across the map.
X-Rebirth functioned as a very effective mad heatsink for me because that game really was a giant fucking pathetic money grab.