I tried half and half mediums/SPLas for a while on my jenner F, and wound up getting way more mileage out of the mediums. The range on the SPLas is soooo short that I never felt like I was making a good weight/heat/damage tradeoff.
It seems like the natural fit for the 8 slot firestarters is some combo of mediums and smalls; you get decent range from the mediums and you can use the smalls to add more low-heat damage when you're close in
SPLs don't do well as a mix armament. You have to commit to being in knife figgung range for them to work well. The only chassis I use them on is the Jenner, and it mounts 6 of them. Its a pretty scary build.
...at least until Star Citizen hits. Then I'd understand if you guys and your Shame Fleet may be too busy for Giant Robot Pew Pew Time.
Can't blame them. Have you seen how much fun they are having over in the SC thread with just the hanger modules and WIP photos? And Chris Roberts and co. just keep on delivering the goodies. I am generally a serial monogamist when it comes to games but seriously thinking of joining the shame fleet right now even with my limited time & funds and the pre-pre alpha state SC is in. When SC releases, I predict a lot of online games will be in trouble.
Actually, I just realized. If you aren't having to pay for the upgrades you normally do for a mech (new engine, double heat sinks, endo, etc), that actually kind of negates some of the Clan cost (since some people were talking about why they were still so expensive compared to IS mechs if they're being balanced). I mean, they'll still be more expensive, but it's mostly an upfront cost. It's kind of a neat mechanic, actually, and kind of reflects the arrogance of the Clans vs the desperation of the IS (even if that wasn't an intended mechanic as metaphor).
...at least until Star Citizen hits. Then I'd understand if you guys and your Shame Fleet may be too busy for Giant Robot Pew Pew Time.
Can't blame them. Have you seen how much fun they are having over in the SC thread with just the hanger modules and WIP photos? And Chris Roberts and co. just keep on delivering the goodies. I am generally a serial monogamist when it comes to games but seriously thinking of joining the shame fleet right now even with my limited time & funds and the pre-pre alpha state SC is in. When SC releases, I predict a lot of online games will be in trouble.
I know, right! All those guys, in there, plotting their future Space Corporation shenanigans....enjoying life....basking in the cameraderie...not being constantly disappointed by underwhelming development schedules....
*sigh*
For real, it's like the SC community on the boards here was like it was for MWO in the early days, all anticipation and excitement. CW can't come soon enough, to bring that all back to a game I care about .
(I do actually care about SC, just....as an observer. I'm no fighter pilot, it just doesn't appeal to me. But if MWO were to totally flop, like close-up-shop flop, I'd be right in there with the SC crowd.)
Awww, @Nips, we'd love to have you even if you aren't a fighter pilot.
We've got a lot of ships that are going to need gunners, navigators, engineers, scullery maids, sexbot maintenance workers ... You know, the important stuff.
Awww, @Nips, we'd love to have you even if you aren't a fighter pilot.
We've got a lot of ships that are going to need gunners, navigators, engineers, scullery maids, sexbot maintenance workers ... You know, the important stuff.
Hey, I'm an engineer! I could totally maintenance sexbots!
That said, if SC ends up having a super-light, ultra-fast, nearly-weaponless ship to run small "priority deliveries"...I could see signing on.
Because you know, land or space, gottagofast.
Trust me @Nips, there is nothing more aching for the old players than hoping that CW and weight matching comes through.
If dedicated servers were a thing... that'd be exponential...
The day weight matching goes in....hunchbacks all day for me. SC wont' be live for a long ass time, there's plenty of time for a Mechwarrior revival if they can deliver this year.
I own a M50 I'd be willing to lend out while you save up for your own I own both the gofast ships.
0
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
So I couldn't really give two craps about most of the stuff they've been pushing with the recent patches, but the fact that they were even able to implement something like the "strip mechs" functionality is a small bit of encouragement. Granted, it should've been a Day 1 option rather than a Year 2 one, but progress is progress.
I just want weight matching. Little Toggy's Hunchbacks have been collecting dust for far too long
Since I'm relatively new to the game, I won't try to empathize with what must have been a metric shitton of unfair matches that you've experienced. But I almost exclusively drive medium mechs, and I've been having a shit-ton of fun in the last few weeks I've been playing.
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
+1
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited February 2014
A lot of people's saltiness in that regard is that, even aside from the constant shitstomps due to no weight matching for most of the last 12 months, we also remember when there was weight matching and the very worst the game could be imbalanced was you taking the low end of your weight class and other people in the high end. So if your team had a lot of mediums, so did the other team, and they couldn't just spam assaults to roll over the top of you.
We also remember when groups were of any size and not just 4-mans or 12-mans, which severely hinders enjoyment since 4 people doesn't compare to having most of a team and nobody has wanted to play 12-man for something like a year because it's even shittier than the regular game.
EDIT: Ugh, you have to actually go into the Mechlab function to strip mechs? Who the hell thought it would be a good idea to put it there instead of the mech list? Probably the same people who thought ten thousand clicks to do anything would make for a great interface, I suppose.
Oh shit, I forgot again. They are doing the daily 50% off of select hero mechs, they're just not advertising them on the front page. Today's is the Golden Boy. You can see what it is by clicking on the store in game.
I just want weight matching. Little Toggy's Hunchbacks have been collecting dust for far too long
Since I'm relatively new to the game, I won't try to empathize with what must have been a metric shitton of unfair matches that you've experienced. But I almost exclusively drive medium mechs, and I've been having a shit-ton of fun in the last few weeks I've been playing.
Don't mind me, I'm just a Level 5 Bitter Vet, to use the old Eve Online parlance. I'm honestly more interested in how hugely the metagame is going to be shaken up by the introduction of tonnage limits than in the shitty matchmaking. It got old dropping and seeing nothing but a steel wall of assaults after a long while.
Fun fact: The HBK-4G is an underrated monster and once you trick it out you can sneak two MGs in under the AC/20 and really piss people off.
I don't even give a shit about community warfare right now. First, they need to make a balanced game to build community warfare around, and that means fixing all the broken shit that they've allowed to accumulate over the development of the game. This includes:
-Matchmaking sucks
-SRMs are still garbage
-Flamers are still crap
-Pulse lasers are still terrible (even with the recent buffs)
-NARC is still pointless (maybe a buff next month?)
-ECM is still overpowered
-Pinpoint damage is still king (that means PPCs and AC5s)
-Gauss rifle still lacks good indicators for fire state
-Mediums are still underpowered
-Poptarting is still the most effective tactic.
-There's absolutely no balance between mechs, withsome mechs being straight up better versions of others
I think PGI will need to address those issues first before they tackle community warfare
I'm not confident tonnage limits are going to be effective at fixing the game either. Sure we'll see fewer assaults, but then we'll just see higher numbers of CTF-3Ds and Shadow Hawks, which fulfill the "Jumpjets+Ballistics " requirement for competitive builds. We'll never see a single Atlas again, since the Highlander and Victor are so much more effective.
Also, if you guys like Hunchbacks, you really ought to try Shadow Hawks. Picture a Hunchback without the giant "Shoot me" hunch, and add jumpjets, a high engine cap, and versatility.
I really wish they would introduce some form of balancing before CW launches. Even if they went back to the old weight-balancing system, it would be better than what we have now.
They don't seem to be that concerned about fixing these; I haven't really seen them talk about it at least. What sucks is that they used to work, so what happened?
-ECM is still overpowered / -Mediums are still underpowered
ECM doesn't bother me as much, though I think it wouldn't be so bad if more people ran in counter mode (since there is so much ECM on the field anyways). Personally, I'd consider ignoring lore and limiting ECM to the lights that currently have it, and add ECM hardpoints to several medium mechs. The idea being that medium's role could be escorting/protecting the heavies and assaults. Mediums would be the ones providing ECM coverage, and mediums would be the ones that you had to deal with to bring the umbrella down. Just a thought experiment, but I don't think it would be a bad idea. I'd also consider giving medium mechs a bonus in capping speed. Lights are already good at this because they can get to a point first, I'd say mediums are more agile in interacting with the capture point or whatever. This would only really matter on maps with cap points, obviously.
-Pinpoint damage is still king (that means PPCs and AC5s)
Pinpoint damage will always be king, as long as our shots land where the crosshair is. Unless they introduce some form of divergence, this will always be the case; they might change weapon balance, but it will just change what weapons you field for pinpoint strikes. The only other way I can see effecting this meta is to severely violate lore and introduce weapons with a high RoF as an option (the equivalent of assault rifles), but that seems too out there.
-There's absolutely no balance between mechs, withsome mechs being straight up better versions of others
If they remain concerned about lore some mechs will just be straight out inferior to others. Maybe tonnage limits will create a place for some of these?
...I wouldn't say that they necessarily need to fix everything before CW, however. They need CW to renew interest in this game, and ideally the people working on CW would be separate from the balance guys, so they should be able to work on both at the same time (though giving their staffing, this might not be the case).
I'm loving the firestarters...
Ember - ERPPC, 4MG, AMS
FS9-K - 6 SPLS, 2ML
FS9-S - 4SL, 2ML, TAG, 2xAMS
I had a match last night were a random locust and I tore through their back field like a hot knife through butter. 2 champion stalkers, a lrm trollapult, then 2 meta boat cataphracts, all fell to our little pew pews. Both stalkers went down without a scratch on their front armor, thanks pgi... Hit, fade, hit, circle of death.
Though the next match, had the ppc blown off in the first 30 seconds, and legged in the next 10, then left to limp around for the next 5 minutes.
+1
NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
I'm loving the firestarters... Ember - ERPPC, 4MG, AMS
FS9-K - 6 SPLS, 2ML
FS9-S - 4SL, 2ML, TAG, 2xAMS
I had a match last night were a random locust and I tore through their back field like a hot knife through butter. 2 champion stalkers, a lrm trollapult, then 2 meta boat cataphracts, all fell to our little pew pews. Both stalkers went down without a scratch on their front armor, thanks pgi... Hit, fade, hit, circle of death.
Though the next match, had the ppc blown off in the first 30 seconds, and legged in the next 10, then left to limp around for the next 5 minutes.
Ooooh, that's a great idea. I keep trying to pair the PPC with MLs on the builds I've been theorycrafting. Hadn't thought of this. Thanks Tig!
Oh man I just remembered back to early closed beta days when the 4SP was a monster. SRM spread was pretty tight all the way out to max range and they did decent (but not OP) damage when they landed. Comparing the state they are in now to that makes me the saddest mechwarrior .
it just feels like they're really ineffective past 200m or so; even if the game reports a hit, the damage seems lacking and/or lots of the missiles miss anyway.
as long as I stick to shooting them at stuff inside 150m though they seem to do pretty solid damage; I had a couple of 500ish damage games and I doubt I was doing all that with the griffin's little laser arm.
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
ECM will remain overpowered for as long as people choose it over any other tonnage / crit slots that they could equip. 1.5 tons and 2 crit slots should not be providing immunity to sensors and missile locks for you and your closest friends AND disabling missile lock and target sharing to any close enemies.
Giving more mechs ECM will not solve it being OP. They just need to bring it back into the Lore state, rather than wrapping every single electronics warfare package into ECM.
Pinpoint damage could mostly be solved if they drag the pinpoint weapon reload times to be closer to the table top (10 seconds). The longer it takes to reload a pinpoint weapon, the better off a laser/srm will be once it closes into range.
I think adding tonnage restrictions to group drops, but leaving solo players to drop in whatever they like would work nicely, with having no overall tonnage restriction for the match (except for making sure that the teams tonnages match up closely).
Had a 600 damage game (seriously couldn't carry harder), a handful of 400 damage games, and a bulk of 300+ damage games. Of course, I had a few <100 damage "oops, got alpha'd" matches, but whaddya gonna do.
The medium lasers give you the reach for more assists, and in conjunction with the smalls let you tear people down at shanking range. So many backs got shanked today. The heat is imminently manageable, and the couple of jump jets give you just enough maneuverability.
Just a quick question Nips, why the AMS? I've never really been bothered by LRMs in a light mech, and I've been told that AMS isn't very effective against streak boats.
edit: Oh, and the Pretty Boy is on sale today for anyone who wants it.
Giving more mechs ECM will not solve it being OP. They just need to bring it back into the Lore state, rather than wrapping every single electronics warfare package into ECM.
The lore state of ECM is garbage unless you're playing with C3. It does other stuff, but the only reason anyone voluntarily takes it is to block C3.
I think ECM is kind of stupid, but the primary problem if we're being honest is D-DCs. If some EC light wants to use it to scout or hang with the pack and give them cover then fair enough; ECM actually has sort of an opportunity cost for them. Making it available to an atlas is just fucking dumb.
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Giving more mechs ECM will not solve it being OP. They just need to bring it back into the Lore state, rather than wrapping every single electronics warfare package into ECM.
The lore state of ECM is garbage unless you're playing with C3. It does other stuff, but the only reason anyone voluntarily takes it is to block C3.
And since we have what can be considered to be C3 in every mech for free, ECM becomes useful.
I dont think its in a bad spot. BAP is a hard counter already. And when the NARC changes that are supposed to come down happen, ECM will be even weaker.
vs regular sensors, ECM is close to what it is in the tabletop. The only extra is it blocking missile locks. (which is pretty significant, mind you)
Every other advanced sensor, though? ECM is supposed to negate BAP, NARC, etc. Instead its the opposite, for exactly the missile lock reason. I'm generally ok with this.
Giving more mechs ECM will not solve it being OP. They just need to bring it back into the Lore state, rather than wrapping every single electronics warfare package into ECM.
The lore state of ECM is garbage unless you're playing with C3. It does other stuff, but the only reason anyone voluntarily takes it is to block C3.
And since we have what can be considered to be C3 in every mech for free, ECM becomes useful.
I dont think its in a bad spot. BAP is a hard counter already. And when the NARC changes that are supposed to come down happen, ECM will be even weaker.
After the BAP change I think ECM ended up in a really good place. It has multiple solid hard counters so that if someone is really worried about it for whatever reason then they totally have the means to defeat it at a low tonnage/space cost. The game implementation of EWAR may not be accurate but whoopdeeshit. Not everything is going to work as a direct tabletop clone.
BAP is a "hard" counter if you're within 180m or whatever, which is really only relevant if you're using streaks. Maybe people will run narcs after the changes go in, but I kinda doubt you'll see that many of them.
it is annoying how few people switch their ECM to counter though. I assume it's because most people don't even know it does that
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Posts
SPLs don't do well as a mix armament. You have to commit to being in knife figgung range for them to work well. The only chassis I use them on is the Jenner, and it mounts 6 of them. Its a pretty scary build.
Can't blame them. Have you seen how much fun they are having over in the SC thread with just the hanger modules and WIP photos? And Chris Roberts and co. just keep on delivering the goodies. I am generally a serial monogamist when it comes to games but seriously thinking of joining the shame fleet right now even with my limited time & funds and the pre-pre alpha state SC is in. When SC releases, I predict a lot of online games will be in trouble.
I know, right! All those guys, in there, plotting their future Space Corporation shenanigans....enjoying life....basking in the cameraderie...not being constantly disappointed by underwhelming development schedules....
*sigh*
For real, it's like the SC community on the boards here was like it was for MWO in the early days, all anticipation and excitement. CW can't come soon enough, to bring that all back to a game I care about
(I do actually care about SC, just....as an observer. I'm no fighter pilot, it just doesn't appeal to me. But if MWO were to totally flop, like close-up-shop flop, I'd be right in there with the SC crowd.)
We've got a lot of ships that are going to need gunners, navigators, engineers, scullery maids, sexbot maintenance workers ... You know, the important stuff.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Hey, I'm an engineer! I could totally maintenance sexbots!
That said, if SC ends up having a super-light, ultra-fast, nearly-weaponless ship to run small "priority deliveries"...I could see signing on.
Because you know, land or space, gottagofast.
If dedicated servers were a thing... that'd be exponential...
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
I own a M50 I'd be willing to lend out while you save up for your own
Since I'm relatively new to the game, I won't try to empathize with what must have been a metric shitton of unfair matches that you've experienced. But I almost exclusively drive medium mechs, and I've been having a shit-ton of fun in the last few weeks I've been playing.
We also remember when groups were of any size and not just 4-mans or 12-mans, which severely hinders enjoyment since 4 people doesn't compare to having most of a team and nobody has wanted to play 12-man for something like a year because it's even shittier than the regular game.
EDIT: Ugh, you have to actually go into the Mechlab function to strip mechs? Who the hell thought it would be a good idea to put it there instead of the mech list? Probably the same people who thought ten thousand clicks to do anything would make for a great interface, I suppose.
Don't mind me, I'm just a Level 5 Bitter Vet, to use the old Eve Online parlance. I'm honestly more interested in how hugely the metagame is going to be shaken up by the introduction of tonnage limits than in the shitty matchmaking. It got old dropping and seeing nothing but a steel wall of assaults after a long while.
Fun fact: The HBK-4G is an underrated monster and once you trick it out you can sneak two MGs in under the AC/20 and really piss people off.
-Matchmaking sucks
-SRMs are still garbage
-Flamers are still crap
-Pulse lasers are still terrible (even with the recent buffs)
-NARC is still pointless (maybe a buff next month?)
-ECM is still overpowered
-Pinpoint damage is still king (that means PPCs and AC5s)
-Gauss rifle still lacks good indicators for fire state
-Mediums are still underpowered
-Poptarting is still the most effective tactic.
-There's absolutely no balance between mechs, withsome mechs being straight up better versions of others
I think PGI will need to address those issues first before they tackle community warfare
I'm not confident tonnage limits are going to be effective at fixing the game either. Sure we'll see fewer assaults, but then we'll just see higher numbers of CTF-3Ds and Shadow Hawks, which fulfill the "Jumpjets+Ballistics " requirement for competitive builds. We'll never see a single Atlas again, since the Highlander and Victor are so much more effective.
Also, if you guys like Hunchbacks, you really ought to try Shadow Hawks. Picture a Hunchback without the giant "Shoot me" hunch, and add jumpjets, a high engine cap, and versatility.
Actually that second bit is true of both CN9 and HBKs. But the high torso mounts make it feel more HBK-ish to me.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
They don't seem to be that concerned about fixing these; I haven't really seen them talk about it at least. What sucks is that they used to work, so what happened?
Ignite objects for smokescreens or DoT napalm mechanic, please.
I bet in PGI's mind they fixed them. They'll probably sit like this for a while.
I'm surprised they haven't already, since they mentioned it a while back.
ECM doesn't bother me as much, though I think it wouldn't be so bad if more people ran in counter mode (since there is so much ECM on the field anyways). Personally, I'd consider ignoring lore and limiting ECM to the lights that currently have it, and add ECM hardpoints to several medium mechs. The idea being that medium's role could be escorting/protecting the heavies and assaults. Mediums would be the ones providing ECM coverage, and mediums would be the ones that you had to deal with to bring the umbrella down. Just a thought experiment, but I don't think it would be a bad idea. I'd also consider giving medium mechs a bonus in capping speed. Lights are already good at this because they can get to a point first, I'd say mediums are more agile in interacting with the capture point or whatever. This would only really matter on maps with cap points, obviously.
Pinpoint damage will always be king, as long as our shots land where the crosshair is. Unless they introduce some form of divergence, this will always be the case; they might change weapon balance, but it will just change what weapons you field for pinpoint strikes. The only other way I can see effecting this meta is to severely violate lore and introduce weapons with a high RoF as an option (the equivalent of assault rifles), but that seems too out there.
Agreed. This should literally be a simple fix.
Bring back screen shake on the way down. Seriously guys, you had this just about fixed at one point.
If they remain concerned about lore some mechs will just be straight out inferior to others. Maybe tonnage limits will create a place for some of these?
...I wouldn't say that they necessarily need to fix everything before CW, however. They need CW to renew interest in this game, and ideally the people working on CW would be separate from the balance guys, so they should be able to work on both at the same time (though giving their staffing, this might not be the case).
Nintendo Network ID: imperialparadox | 3DS FC: 2294-4029-6793
XBL Gamertag: Paradox3351 | PSN: imperialparadox
Ember - ERPPC, 4MG, AMS
FS9-K - 6 SPLS, 2ML
FS9-S - 4SL, 2ML, TAG, 2xAMS
I had a match last night were a random locust and I tore through their back field like a hot knife through butter. 2 champion stalkers, a lrm trollapult, then 2 meta boat cataphracts, all fell to our little pew pews. Both stalkers went down without a scratch on their front armor, thanks pgi... Hit, fade, hit, circle of death.
Though the next match, had the ppc blown off in the first 30 seconds, and legged in the next 10, then left to limp around for the next 5 minutes.
Ooooh, that's a great idea. I keep trying to pair the PPC with MLs on the builds I've been theorycrafting. Hadn't thought of this. Thanks Tig!
You can get crazy on PPCs and lasers with it, if that's not your bag then sell the blighter and buy an entire other mech with the proceeds!
I figure at some point they're going to change up the LL ghost heat, so it could be a much more inviting proposition at some point.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
SRMs actually don't seem that bad even without artemis, it's just that their maximum range is lies
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
as long as I stick to shooting them at stuff inside 150m though they seem to do pretty solid damage; I had a couple of 500ish damage games and I doubt I was doing all that with the griffin's little laser arm.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Giving more mechs ECM will not solve it being OP. They just need to bring it back into the Lore state, rather than wrapping every single electronics warfare package into ECM.
Pinpoint damage could mostly be solved if they drag the pinpoint weapon reload times to be closer to the table top (10 seconds). The longer it takes to reload a pinpoint weapon, the better off a laser/srm will be once it closes into range.
I think adding tonnage restrictions to group drops, but leaving solo players to drop in whatever they like would work nicely, with having no overall tonnage restriction for the match (except for making sure that the teams tonnages match up closely).
MWO: Adamski
Had a 600 damage game (seriously couldn't carry harder), a handful of 400 damage games, and a bulk of 300+ damage games. Of course, I had a few <100 damage "oops, got alpha'd" matches, but whaddya gonna do.
The medium lasers give you the reach for more assists, and in conjunction with the smalls let you tear people down at shanking range. So many backs got shanked today. The heat is imminently manageable, and the couple of jump jets give you just enough maneuverability.
I think this'll be the -K build that sticks.
edit: Oh, and the Pretty Boy is on sale today for anyone who wants it.
The lore state of ECM is garbage unless you're playing with C3. It does other stuff, but the only reason anyone voluntarily takes it is to block C3.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
And since we have what can be considered to be C3 in every mech for free, ECM becomes useful.
I dont think its in a bad spot. BAP is a hard counter already. And when the NARC changes that are supposed to come down happen, ECM will be even weaker.
Every other advanced sensor, though? ECM is supposed to negate BAP, NARC, etc. Instead its the opposite, for exactly the missile lock reason. I'm generally ok with this.
After the BAP change I think ECM ended up in a really good place. It has multiple solid hard counters so that if someone is really worried about it for whatever reason then they totally have the means to defeat it at a low tonnage/space cost. The game implementation of EWAR may not be accurate but whoopdeeshit. Not everything is going to work as a direct tabletop clone.
it is annoying how few people switch their ECM to counter though. I assume it's because most people don't even know it does that
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat