Second, what do people think the limit is on the price of a subsidized XBO? Both the upfront cost and the monthly cost. It's pretty clear that in the US the upfront costs for cellphone can't really be higher than $200. If MS's market research showed that demand for subsidized consoles only existed at $99, that would explain why they have not announced such a plan.
I really feel like announcing a plan when selling all of their stock isn't a problem would be a mistake. This will likely happen when they need to start moving inventory because the people willing to pay 500 for a new console no longer gives them good numbers. So, probably February or March.
I suspect we will see either a 299.99 w/ 14.99 a month live gold for 24 months, or 199.99 at 14.99/mo for 3 years.
Both end up costing the consumer 30-60 dollars more than buying it outright, but that would fall in line with what they did for the 360 almost to a tee.
With less than a week to go for the PS4 launch and two for the Xbox One we already have our first banned console!
Yes, MS banned one poor bloke who got his Xbox One early via Target by mistake. He was talking about it last night as he tried things and they dropped the hammer.
Does such actions make a company look bad or is it justified.
Does it really affect anything.
And would it be a brilliant stroke of Sony to send him a PS4 a few days early for a PR win?
With less than a week to go for the PS4 launch and two for the Xbox One we already have our first banned console!
Yes, MS banned one poor bloke who got his Xbox One early via Target by mistake. He was talking about it last night as he tried things and they dropped the hammer.
Does such actions make a company look bad or is it justified.
Does it really affect anything.
And would it be a brilliant stroke of Sony to send him a PS4 a few days early for a PR win?
If Microsoft ever gives you a gift with a "No not open until" sticker on it, for gods sake listen you ungrateful little jerk.
Huh, I really wonder if it is a brick without the patch. Haven't we heard the PS4 will run and play games but is missing a bunch of features without the Day 1 patch?
I'd still be super leery of plugging an ethernet cable into that thing if it showed up on my doorstep today.
Huh, I really wonder if it is a brick without the patch. Haven't we heard the PS4 will run and play games but is missing a bunch of features without the Day 1 patch?
I'd still be super leery of plugging an ethernet cable into that thing if it showed up on my doorstep today.
Imagine it's November 22nd: You've got your shiny new Xbox One from the local games merchant, you've got it home, and it's time to video game. Aw shucks, the internet is out! But that's okay, as you've got yourself a physical game disc ready to go. Sadly, it looks like you've got yourself a $500 paperweight until your ISP comes back online. "Functionally, you will be able to do very little without taking the day one update," Microsoft senior director of product management Albert Penello told Engadget in a recent interview. We posed just such a scenario to him, and asked what we could do with an Xbox One out of the box. "Nothing. You need the Day One update," he said.
And yeah, considering this guy was banned for basically breaking an NDA he never agreed to or signed, I'd be super leery as well.
Apparently the always online functionality is still in the OS that comes out of the box, so basically, if you want to use the Xbone, you're plugging that ethernet cable in.
Edit: unless there's some kind of download the patch to a USB stick functionality, I guess. Odds are though this dude wouldn't have been prepared for that anyway, got hyped, and went to town playing with his new exciting toy early.
bss on
3DS: 2466-2307-8384 PSN: bssteph Steam:bsstephanTwitch:bsstephan Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e Occasional words about games:my site
Alright, dude was tweeting up a mad storm about this too with pictures and all that. He was clearly excited and probably not thinking things through too much there.
Fun things: Target is going to get so smacked around by MS. Kid has a law suit mandatory binding arbitration case. Will be amusing what portion of the TOS MS uses to justify it.
Also: Somebody at MS has to be thinking "So, how do we stop this from becoming a PR nightmare?" Like, on launch day give the kid a care package and restore the console and all that? Right?
I don't know why people are giving this guy shit, he got his console mailed to him by Target, he didn't steal it out of a warehouse. It's not his responsiblity to keep up on embargoes and NDAs and bizarre gaming industry shit.
And the Day One patch they've been touting was completely live and available last night.
Can you imagine if someone who doesn't follow gaming news religiously but was interested enough to order one of these got it early? They would hook it up not even thinking twice and 4 hours later he gets a 500 dollar brick.
Unbelievable, I was actually getting really sold on that console last night as a lot of cool stuff was coming out of his impressions, the guy was super hyped and saying nothing but positive statements about it.
+22
David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
I think if they're smart, yeah, care package and then restore the console like the day before launch. So he gets to play it early because he got it early, but just early enough for it to work as hype.
I'm just curious how just this one guy managed to have Target ship his console to him early. I have a feeling we aren't getting the whole truth from any party.
I don't know why people are giving this guy shit, he got his console mailed to him by Target, he didn't steal it out of a warehouse. It's not his responsiblity to keep up on embargoes and NDAs and bizarre gaming industry shit.
And the Day One patch they've been touting was completely live and available last night.
Can you imagine if someone who doesn't follow gaming news religiously but was interested enough to order one of these got it early? They would hook it up not even thinking twice and 4 hours later he gets a 500 dollar brick.
Unbelievable, I was actually getting really sold on that console last night as a lot of cool stuff was coming out of his impressions, the guy was super hyped and saying nothing but positive statements about it.
I think the guy was a little dumb in staying online. He was really dumb in posting all the shit he did up on twitter.
Note that "dumb" in this context is not the same as illegal, wrong, bad or whatever. In this context it means strictly "Doing things that are gonna get your console banned, unjustly or not."
How would any rational person know that though? I followed this guy all night and this guy was pretty clueless to shit like embargoes and NDAs and street dates, all he knew was he bought a XBone at Target and they shipped it to him.
Like when you buy a new phone do you check enthusiast sites to make sure it's supposed to be out yet and you're not breaking some arbitrary date of when you can use it? I'm sure there's a smartphone forum out there for enthusiasts who can't believe some people get hot new phones early.
It makes zero sense to ban his console and even less sense to blame this guy because "he should have known!".
If he did truly get it shipped to him with no shenanigans on his part, then yes, I'll give him a pass and a shame on Microsoft.
I sort of doubt that's the case, though. There's no way Target shipped out 1 Xbone to 1 guy who just happened to spam his twitter feed with stuff all night about it.
If it happened to me, there'd be one post on twitter/facebook when I opened the box and I'd have spent the rest of my time playing.
I agree that it's a bit odd that the guy got his order from Target, unless there was a very short glitch/misposting in their system, or unless other people are getting their consoles and they're being mum about it, but yeah, there's no really much to directly blame the guy for. I know if I got my PS4 yesterday, I would have said "fuck yes" and hooked that shit up immediately and blabbed about it on IRC and here, fully aware that other people signed NDAs and press embargos and whatnot.
Really, if Microsoft doesn't do something to paper this over, they're quite dumb. This guy sounded like free hype.
3DS: 2466-2307-8384 PSN: bssteph Steam:bsstephanTwitch:bsstephan Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e Occasional words about games:my site
Staying online and tweeting about it are such bewilderingly dumb things to do if he has any common sense at all. He shouldn't really be banned over it, though.
Staying online and tweeting about it are such bewilderingly dumb things to do if he has any common sense at all.
That's basically just saying "if he has any common sense at all, he should be aware that he can be banned for any arbitrary reason at anyone's whim" because like Beltaine said, assuming he got his console on the up and up and as a result of a mistake, he hasn't done a thing wrong. No agreements were violated unless there's some "you won't use this service before blah" in a new XBL terms and conditions statement. He received a product and started using his product.
Microsoft should be sending a guy with an executioner's hood and an axe to corporate Target, not swatting down each account a fan of theirs has.
3DS: 2466-2307-8384 PSN: bssteph Steam:bsstephanTwitch:bsstephan Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e Occasional words about games:my site
Staying online and tweeting about it are such bewilderingly dumb things to do if he has any common sense at all. He shouldn't really be banned over it, though.
This sentence doesn't make any sense. It's only "dumb shit" to do if it's obvious he's going to get justifiably banned for it. If he "shouldn't be banned for it" then it is not, by definition, dumb shit.
Kid hasn't broken any laws, NDAs or License Agreements. As far as I know there's not even a provision in the ToS for stuff like this. MS done fucked up from a PR perspective, let the kid have his fun.
I'm surprised Microsoft didn't just put in a 'sorry you can't use this until launch' splash screen if they were that worried about keeping the date solid. Surely they could have a pass or list of preauthed consoles if they can identify and ban the particular one that shouldn't be active.
Not saying the dude should have been able to rock early just because he got lucky, but he shouldn't be punished for it either.
Staying online and tweeting about it are such bewilderingly dumb things to do if he has any common sense at all. He shouldn't really be banned over it, though.
This sentence doesn't make any sense. It's only "dumb shit" to do if it's obvious he's going to get justifiably banned for it. If he "shouldn't be banned for it" then it is not, by definition, dumb shit.
Kid hasn't broken any laws, NDAs or License Agreements. As far as I know there's not even a provision in the ToS for stuff like this. MS done fucked up from a PR perspective, let the kid have his fun.
Justifiable doesn't enter into, it's a question of what's going to happen. If I go up to a giant drunk guy in a bar and insult the fuck out of him is he justified in beating me until I'm in the hospital? Nope. If it foreseeable? Yep. Is it dumb? Yep.
That analogy isn't perfect because what the dude did wasn't really equivalent, though to the PR guys as Xbox it probably felt it was.
Taking Microsoft's side in this is ridiculous. How many casual gamers out there (as in do not consider reading industry news like profitability over a consoles lifetime fun) would know that journalists are under an NDA? Would know that a press embargo was in effect? If it went down with no illegal tricks or shenanigans then it is target's fault, not his. Maybe target was running a promotion and he won? Maybe they started sending them out early to random customers. If he received it legit then he was under no obligation to determine why.
Looking at the guy's twitter page, there's no way he's completely innocent here. :P
Yeah, I'll give him that, his Twitter was definitely playing up the whole "I have the scoops, I have all the scoops" element to this. Still don't think it's wrong though.
3DS: 2466-2307-8384 PSN: bssteph Steam:bsstephanTwitch:bsstephan Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e Occasional words about games:my site
+1
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I absolutely cannot fathom how anyone can think MS actions are justifiable. He has a legal piece of hardware, that he bought with actual money and it was given to him by a retailer by mistake. There is absolutely no fault on his part at all here. None.
I absolutely cannot fathom how anyone can think MS actions are justifiable. He has a legal piece of hardware, that he bought with actual money and it was given to him by a retailer by mistake. There is absolutely no fault on his part at all here. None.
Well I do think MS was being a jerk but Target put MS in an unwinnable scenario.
If MS's action was legal or not is very very murky. The TOS probably have something that covers something that could be stretched to this. We'll also probably never know because it will go to MBA instead of the courts.
More than likely the ban probably wasn't even a conscious action on Microsoft's part. They probably have a list of known developer/reviewer console serial#'s/MAC addresses and any console that shows up that is not one of those gets a ban.
Most likely this guy's ban will be lifted come release. It's no big deal.
I absolutely cannot fathom how anyone can think MS actions are justifiable. He has a legal piece of hardware, that he bought with actual money and it was given to him by a retailer by mistake. There is absolutely no fault on his part at all here. None.
I strongly suspect that the "day-one update" patch he received is the most recent patch our unit received which has some dev/debug tools tucked away that they really really really don't want to have the general public fucking around with.
Deactivating the console really isn't a surprising turn of events. I'd be enormously surprised if it's not reactivated on launch day. His gamertag is still working, which is normally what they go after for punitive action.
I'm sure Microsoft PR will jump into action and fix the situtation but the whole thing is enough for me to go "No thanks, Microsoft." I might be a bit biased because past PR problems put me off the Xbone to begin with... but that's really the whole problem with PR disasters, isn't it? That bad taste never really washes out.
If he did truly get it shipped to him with no shenanigans on his part, then yes, I'll give him a pass and a shame on Microsoft.
I sort of doubt that's the case, though. There's no way Target shipped out 1 Xbone to 1 guy who just happened to spam his twitter feed with stuff all night about it.
If it happened to me, there'd be one post on twitter/facebook when I opened the box and I'd have spent the rest of my time playing.
I suspect holiday staffing and/or just general apathy. Possibly just fucked up computers stuff, speaking from experience Target's software is not exactly accurate stuff.
If he did truly get it shipped to him with no shenanigans on his part, then yes, I'll give him a pass and a shame on Microsoft.
I sort of doubt that's the case, though. There's no way Target shipped out 1 Xbone to 1 guy who just happened to spam his twitter feed with stuff all night about it.
If it happened to me, there'd be one post on twitter/facebook when I opened the box and I'd have spent the rest of my time playing.
I suspect holiday staffing and/or just general apathy. Possibly just fucked up computers stuff, speaking from experience Target's software is not exactly accurate stuff.
from reading the guys tweets it seems like he ordered it on monday though an online offer Target had, so its possible that there was just something wrong in code/ship date of that particular instance which would explain why Target customers aren't getting Xbones delivered en mass.
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
What's bugging me about this is that people are kinda being opportunistic to slam MS. I'm all for calling MS out on the stupid shit they're pulling with this new console gen, but this is not an instance of them being some crazy evil entity. The error happened through the retail partner, Target. Nobody is being malicious in this situation. Something happened to allow a gun to be jumped, and there's nothing wrong with correcting things and pulling that person back to the starting line.
I'm just curious how just this one guy managed to have Target ship his console to him early. I have a feeling we aren't getting the whole truth from any party.
I'd just like to highlight this post from the LEGO thread in D&D :
Walmart's price glitch was price matched by my local Target.
Yeah, I can totally buy Target making mistakes.
Oakey on
0
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited November 2013
I find this dude's plight especially interesting, given that there were folks (I am NOT calling out anyone here, just making a general statement) who insisted that it would be completely fine to let Microsoft have always-on control of your system.
The Xbone literally isn't even out yet and they just did a fantastic job of proving why that would've been a horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE idea.
Also, providing firm and excellent evidence for why I will not purchase hardware from Microsoft because they've decided the Xbone would be a great item to act like a shitty, overbearing, asshole company over.
What's bugging me about this is that people are kinda being opportunistic to slam MS. I'm all for calling MS out on the stupid shit they're pulling with this new console gen, but this is not an instance of them being some crazy evil entity. The error happened through the retail partner, Target. Nobody is being malicious in this situation. Something happened to allow a gun to be jumped, and there's nothing wrong with correcting things and pulling that person back to the starting line.
It doesn't need to "evil" to be horrendously stupid and wrong. The dude purchased a product, the servers were online to support it, and Microsoft instinctively fucked him over because he might have damaged some silly PR push. Temporary or not, it was an incredibly shitty thing to do. This dude has done literally nothing wrong, save letting Microsoft know that someone else fucked up. If I was the dude, I'd return that shit right now and stay the hell away from Microsoft.
And "pulling him back to the starting line?" I don't even know what you mean by that, because nobody "wins" by getting the console first. They just... have it first. Unless you're talking about Target, which was actually responsible for the screwup.
EDIT: And even with the guy talking about the console, so fucking what? Street dates aren't law for the consumer, they're marketing bullshit so companies can beat their chest and say "LOOK AT ALL THESE THINGS WE SOLD ON DAY ONE!" How the hell is it legally or ethically wrong for him to talk about the console as much as he wants? HE OWNS IT.
Ninja Snarl P on
+16
Ov3rchargeR.I.P. Mass EffectYou were dead to me for yearsRegistered Userregular
Sony should totally send this guy a PS4 and some games. It's like free PR.
Posts
That sounds disgustingly interesting/crafty.
Cool idea!
Yes, MS banned one poor bloke who got his Xbox One early via Target by mistake. He was talking about it last night as he tried things and they dropped the hammer.
Does such actions make a company look bad or is it justified.
Does it really affect anything.
And would it be a brilliant stroke of Sony to send him a PS4 a few days early for a PR win?
If Microsoft ever gives you a gift with a "No not open until" sticker on it, for gods sake listen you ungrateful little jerk.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
"I can't use this thing until I go online and get the patch."
I'd still be super leery of plugging an ethernet cable into that thing if it showed up on my doorstep today.
And yeah, considering this guy was banned for basically breaking an NDA he never agreed to or signed, I'd be super leery as well.
Edit: unless there's some kind of download the patch to a USB stick functionality, I guess. Odds are though this dude wouldn't have been prepared for that anyway, got hyped, and went to town playing with his new exciting toy early.
Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e
Occasional words about games: my site
Fun things: Target is going to get so smacked around by MS. Kid has a law suit mandatory binding arbitration case. Will be amusing what portion of the TOS MS uses to justify it.
Also: Somebody at MS has to be thinking "So, how do we stop this from becoming a PR nightmare?" Like, on launch day give the kid a care package and restore the console and all that? Right?
And the Day One patch they've been touting was completely live and available last night.
Can you imagine if someone who doesn't follow gaming news religiously but was interested enough to order one of these got it early? They would hook it up not even thinking twice and 4 hours later he gets a 500 dollar brick.
Unbelievable, I was actually getting really sold on that console last night as a lot of cool stuff was coming out of his impressions, the guy was super hyped and saying nothing but positive statements about it.
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
I think the guy was a little dumb in staying online. He was really dumb in posting all the shit he did up on twitter.
Note that "dumb" in this context is not the same as illegal, wrong, bad or whatever. In this context it means strictly "Doing things that are gonna get your console banned, unjustly or not."
Like when you buy a new phone do you check enthusiast sites to make sure it's supposed to be out yet and you're not breaking some arbitrary date of when you can use it? I'm sure there's a smartphone forum out there for enthusiasts who can't believe some people get hot new phones early.
It makes zero sense to ban his console and even less sense to blame this guy because "he should have known!".
I sort of doubt that's the case, though. There's no way Target shipped out 1 Xbone to 1 guy who just happened to spam his twitter feed with stuff all night about it.
If it happened to me, there'd be one post on twitter/facebook when I opened the box and I'd have spent the rest of my time playing.
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
Really, if Microsoft doesn't do something to paper this over, they're quite dumb. This guy sounded like free hype.
Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e
Occasional words about games: my site
That's basically just saying "if he has any common sense at all, he should be aware that he can be banned for any arbitrary reason at anyone's whim" because like Beltaine said, assuming he got his console on the up and up and as a result of a mistake, he hasn't done a thing wrong. No agreements were violated unless there's some "you won't use this service before blah" in a new XBL terms and conditions statement. He received a product and started using his product.
Microsoft should be sending a guy with an executioner's hood and an axe to corporate Target, not swatting down each account a fan of theirs has.
Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e
Occasional words about games: my site
This sentence doesn't make any sense. It's only "dumb shit" to do if it's obvious he's going to get justifiably banned for it. If he "shouldn't be banned for it" then it is not, by definition, dumb shit.
Kid hasn't broken any laws, NDAs or License Agreements. As far as I know there's not even a provision in the ToS for stuff like this. MS done fucked up from a PR perspective, let the kid have his fun.
Steam: adamjnet
Not saying the dude should have been able to rock early just because he got lucky, but he shouldn't be punished for it either.
Justifiable doesn't enter into, it's a question of what's going to happen. If I go up to a giant drunk guy in a bar and insult the fuck out of him is he justified in beating me until I'm in the hospital? Nope. If it foreseeable? Yep. Is it dumb? Yep.
That analogy isn't perfect because what the dude did wasn't really equivalent, though to the PR guys as Xbox it probably felt it was.
A patch that isn't ready supposedly.
PSN:Furlion
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
Yeah, I'll give him that, his Twitter was definitely playing up the whole "I have the scoops, I have all the scoops" element to this. Still don't think it's wrong though.
Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e
Occasional words about games: my site
Then the fault is with Target. Story over.
If MS's action was legal or not is very very murky. The TOS probably have something that covers something that could be stretched to this. We'll also probably never know because it will go to MBA instead of the courts.
I just can't fathom Microsoft anymore. I just can't. I actually feel bad I supported them so much for nearly six years.
Most likely this guy's ban will be lifted come release. It's no big deal.
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
I strongly suspect that the "day-one update" patch he received is the most recent patch our unit received which has some dev/debug tools tucked away that they really really really don't want to have the general public fucking around with.
Deactivating the console really isn't a surprising turn of events. I'd be enormously surprised if it's not reactivated on launch day. His gamertag is still working, which is normally what they go after for punitive action.
I suspect holiday staffing and/or just general apathy. Possibly just fucked up computers stuff, speaking from experience Target's software is not exactly accurate stuff.
from reading the guys tweets it seems like he ordered it on monday though an online offer Target had, so its possible that there was just something wrong in code/ship date of that particular instance which would explain why Target customers aren't getting Xbones delivered en mass.
I'd just like to highlight this post from the LEGO thread in D&D :
Yeah, I can totally buy Target making mistakes.
The Xbone literally isn't even out yet and they just did a fantastic job of proving why that would've been a horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE idea.
Also, providing firm and excellent evidence for why I will not purchase hardware from Microsoft because they've decided the Xbone would be a great item to act like a shitty, overbearing, asshole company over.
It doesn't need to "evil" to be horrendously stupid and wrong. The dude purchased a product, the servers were online to support it, and Microsoft instinctively fucked him over because he might have damaged some silly PR push. Temporary or not, it was an incredibly shitty thing to do. This dude has done literally nothing wrong, save letting Microsoft know that someone else fucked up. If I was the dude, I'd return that shit right now and stay the hell away from Microsoft.
And "pulling him back to the starting line?" I don't even know what you mean by that, because nobody "wins" by getting the console first. They just... have it first. Unless you're talking about Target, which was actually responsible for the screwup.
EDIT: And even with the guy talking about the console, so fucking what? Street dates aren't law for the consumer, they're marketing bullshit so companies can beat their chest and say "LOOK AT ALL THESE THINGS WE SOLD ON DAY ONE!" How the hell is it legally or ethically wrong for him to talk about the console as much as he wants? HE OWNS IT.