I'm still not seeing how 42 points in combat makes such a great Arena build. I feel almost invincible running Arenas with my new Hemo build. I have 2 of everything in like a 1 minute (on average) fight. I have so many god damn outs that I use a lot, I couldn't imagine living half as long without prep, combat tree or no.
Yeah, you have imp sprint and such but, i'd rather have two vanishes, two sprints, two evasions, two CB's, etc etc etc.
The difference is only in high ranked play though, where 1 min battles means one team has steamrolled the other in 5v5, and is a clear victory in 2v2. subtlety is a lot more viable in 2v2 as well since rogue CC is much more important. In 5v5, you have so much CC around, and the opponent has so many ways of breaking it, it's pretty much a reaction game. In 5v5, it's often purely about who runs out of mana/gets a really lucky crit streak first, and so damage becomes a LOT more important than CC and utility - same reason why warrs are so much better than rogues in 5v5. With the patch meaning your opponent can trinket blind or sap, subtlety (and rogues as a whole) loses a lot of viability in 2v2/3v3.
I'm still not seeing how 42 points in combat makes such a great Arena build. I feel almost invincible running Arenas with my new Hemo build. I have 2 of everything in like a 1 minute (on average) fight. I have so many god damn outs that I use a lot, I couldn't imagine living half as long without prep, combat tree or no.
Yeah, you have imp sprint and such but, i'd rather have two vanishes, two sprints, two evasions, two CB's, etc etc etc.
Yeah, and in 2v2 Im with that, the increased range on sap in particular is very handy. But when the Fit hits the Shan and your busted out of stealth and cant get back its nice to have some more damage at hand. But thats just a preference. I prefer subtelty as it's just more Roguey from a RP pov and has more fun to be had, it's just not fitting in with raiding so 19/42 allows both for the time being.
From watching videos of high rank play, and 5v5ing a bit myself (low due to shitty team, I only have an inactive 3v3 atm ), I have to say that it's not very fun as a low (1700 and less) ranked rogue. In low ranked battles, it's absolutely NOT about mana/crits, but who makes a mistake first. Or just nuking. It's not unusual to get killed really fast. I was so bored of it I ignored the fact that it got me more points and just stuck to 3v3.
Strangely I have never got a 2v2 although I'm quite competent and my 3v3 team's low rank was because we often didn't have the right setup. We had 1800 rating with 31 - 85 or some similar bullshit as rogue/mage/oomkin and pala/priest/oomkin, but 49 - 8 with rogue/healer/lock (he couldn't play as much), half of the losses (and one win) being against the same warr/pala/shammy 2200 rated team. Then the lock left for a more serious 3v3, and I stopped bothering and focused on PvE instead.
80 - 93 or so total, and a lot of our wins were against higher-ranked teams, while we tended to loose against those of similar rank with our bad setups.
Hah, I think I can grind to 300 lockpicking on the BRD doors near the entrance and then reset.
Once you get to Hellfire, lockpicking is so damn easy. I made it a point to pickpocket any humanoid mobs I came across on my trip from 58 to 70. By the time I hit 70 I had about 45 extra boxes in my bank after maxing my lockpicking. So hit 300, then just save them up once you reach hellfire, if you max it to your level, just save additional ones in your bank for your next ding. Works really well and is a lot less painful than leveling 50 points at once @ 70.
Wavechaser on
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
So, suggestions, or suggestion I guess, I have enough points to get the offhand arena dagger tomorrow, should I go for that or save up for the main hand?
Also, is there a website that will allow me to see how equipment would affect my current stats? Not comparing item to item per se, but I'd just like to see how equipping a new piece of gear would affect me.
So I went with the offhand season 2 dagger yesterday. If this ends up being a poor choice, I'm placing the blame squarely upon you people for not advising me otherwise.
As for sword spec. It still kicks ass, even without counting as a yellow. It no longer resets your swing timer which really hurt depending on when it procced so it is still very useful for raiding.
Yeah, it still does quite well, 1450 on Karathress last night and 1490 on Tidewalker until I got triple tombed near the end, which shot that to shit. Really, I miss the CP procs from the offhand more than anything, there were a number of times with Lust where the entire left side of my screen was just
As for sword spec. It still kicks ass, even without counting as a yellow. It no longer resets your swing timer which really hurt depending on when it procced so it is still very useful for raiding.
Yeah, it still does quite well, 1450 on Karathress last night and 1490 on Tidewalker until I got triple tombed near the end, which shot that to shit. Really, I miss the CP procs from the offhand more than anything, there were a number of times with Lust where the entire left side of my screen was just
+15 Energy
+15 Energy
+15 Energy
I'm already missing it ;(
I picked up the Season 2 MH yesterday, and went full PVP Combat. I like it alot better than Sealfate/Prep Dagger so far. I just love the fact that if I get knocked out of stealth, it really doesn't matter all that much.
I have yet to try it arena with my Lock partner. Hopeing I can be more usefully than I previously was.
ApolloTreatingYou on
no you cannot have a sig that size. especially with compression that crappy.
After a long time in WoW, I finally got around to rolling a rogue. If you can't beat them, join them. Etc.
So, I'm now specced all the way up to adrenaline rush, in combat. Couple questions:
I hear much disdain for maces, and the sword spec does look better... But the two best weapons I have at the moment are this and this.
Should I bother to respec to maces, or just live with it until I find some good swords? And what are some good swords to start shooting for? Level 40 atm.
Also, should I keep going in combat to combat potency, or start mucking about in assass? Looking for general "ease of levelling" type talents.
After a long time in WoW, I finally got around to rolling a rogue. If you can't beat them, join them. Etc.
So, I'm now specced all the way up to adrenaline rush, in combat. Couple questions:
I hear much disdain for maces, and the sword spec does look better... But the two best weapons I have at the moment are this and this.
Should I bother to respec to maces, or just live with it until I find some good swords? And what are some good swords to start shooting for? Level 40 atm.
Also, should I keep going in combat to combat potency, or start mucking about in assass? Looking for general "ease of levelling" type talents.
The best advice I can give you, in all honestly, is do not roll a Rogue. Roll a Warrior, mage or lock if you want to dps. Seriously, you will be severely dissapointed at 70.
Weakest PVP Class. Way too many Rogues that want to raid.
ApolloTreatingYou on
no you cannot have a sig that size. especially with compression that crappy.
The best advice I can give you, in all honestly, is do not roll a Rogue. Roll a Warrior, mage or lock if you want to dps. Seriously, you will be severely dissapointed at 70.
Weakest PVP Class. Way too many Rogues that want to raid.
Dont really agree with that tbh
I have played a Rogue since EU release and am raiding at Maggy right now having been pimped out in Kara and T4...I got in my raiding guild by writing a good ap, they werent recruting at the time and I was offering nothing more than any other rogue.
There are alot who want to raid but not many who know how / can be bothered to approach the right guilds.
As for DPS, well casters ar a different issue but in our raids we have 1 rogue in kara and 3 on 25 mans as a rule and they usually top the DPS meters and provide some utility on certain fights (aran....), Warriors generate too much threat for less damage than a combat rogue.
PVP, well maybe your right there at the moment /shrug
If you enjoy it stick with it, oh and I would pick up Potency then start in Assas but thats just me, a fast enough OH and its like a constant ARlite
Today I finally made enough Aldor rep to aquire my Vindicator's Brand and enough Arena points to purchase my Off-hand Merciless Gladiator Quickblade so i've respecced to Combat Sword for Raiding, and grinding. But I also want to PvP, arenas and BG's not world ganking, when I have the time. Keeping that in mind I have narrowed it down to two possible specs, though I need opinions on if I should change them slightly, or which is better.
So, here's the first spec, which i've blatently ripped off the Nihilium Combat Rogues, changing it slightly (I don't quite understand why they take 1 point in Remorseless, just seems like a waste especially in boss battles); Combat Spec 1
As I starred at this spec I began to ask myself "What use am I really going to get out of Endurance? I rarely survive by using it in PvP, only useful against warriors who just overpower and rogues who I either have stunlocked or have me stunlocked. Even if I do end up using it it's only 1.5 minutes off a 5 minute timer, good by not the greatest as I rarely have the chance to use it every 3.5 minutes. It's also useless for Raids, if i'm getting attacked i'm doing something stupid and this isn't going to save me." Looking down the spec I get to Vitality and I know, deep down in my being, that it sucks. 400 base agi gives me what, an extra 8 agi? It's not awful, but it's not as good as Adrenaline Rush which is on the same tier.
At this point I usually start drooling over Riposte. Granted that I survive long enough against those warriors who 3k crit me with Mortal Strike to parry them this would, theoretically, be a delicious talent for PvP against Warriors and Rogues, seriously who even uses the weapon chains anyway?
What I desire from you, you delicious forum, is some opinions and advice based of these builds that will be great for raiding, and viable for PvP. I just couldn't see much use in these filler talents that don't significantly add to my use in a raid. Or have I got Vitality pegged all wrong, and when I get good enough gear it's going to be godly? Is my entire fountain of knowledge based on a lie?!... you get the picture.
Thanks for your help.
EDIT: Because the wowhead link didn't work, and spelling.
Arkyris on
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AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
Many of the quotes comes from the 19th, X-fire chat on WoW classes. There are a fair bit from other instances too, like when he complained that the lock dropping out from Feel the Pain (EU arena finals) due to IRL stuff, meaning the team had no chance, should have...well, I'll just quote him:
When you and your teammates have worked hard all season long to get into the conference finals, I don’t care if your girl friend is about to give you a new born child (see Lebron James and Bruce Bowen) or threatens to write your name in the death note, you gotta put your team before everything else. The warlock from Feel The Pain cost the rogue community our only chance to show off our stuff in high level 5v5. I feel sorry for Zune and company. Better luck next time folks.
Yeah. At least he used to have some interesting and valid points on PvP, but since BC he's pretty much gone down the drain game-wise too.
Serpico on
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
Can someone help me please? I am a Night Elf level 12 and I don't know what to invest my skills in. I have no idea how most of this works but my dad says the kind of rouge I want to be is an assassin. Thanks!
Can someone help me please? I am a Night Elf level 12 and I don't know what to invest my skills in. I have no idea how most of this works but my dad says the kind of rouge I want to be is an assassin. Thanks!
Invest your first skills in speccing out of Night Elf.
Just kidding.
Not really.
Seriously though, leveling rogues is done most easily through the combat tree. You won't be an assassin, at least not the 'sneaky sneaky' kind. Combat rogues just get up in the face of their opponents and stab/slash/bludgeon them until they die, which doesn't take long. Once you hit level 50, you might consider respeccing to Assassination for Mutilate, but leveling Mut. is not nearly as easy as leveling combat (though I found it more enjoyable).
What the hell should I put on this thing? I have yet to even bother with enchants since BC has been released so I'm a bit behind the times. I don't think anyone has Mongoose on our server yet, definitely no one from our guild.
Wavechaser on
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AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
edited June 2007
mongoose drops from moroes so if no one on your server has it you should probably transfer off right the fuck now.
Angry on
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
What the hell should I put on this thing? I have yet to even bother with enchants since BC has been released so I'm a bit behind the times. I don't think anyone has Mongoose on our server yet, definitely no one from our guild.
I put the 'goose on my A2 Shiv and I loves it. Since I'll probably never see the Ripper from Moroes (as I attend Kara very infrequently and when I do, that asshole only ever drops his shitty pocketwatch and some other useless bauble), I'm shooting for the MH A2 dagger.
mongoose drops from moroes so if no one on your server has it you should probably transfer off right the fuck now.
100% drop?
I just really don't feel like paying the bullshit gouge pricing a non-guild enchanter will slap me with if I try and go to them. I was just curious if there were any other good BC enchants to put on my OH in the meantime.
Wavechaser on
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AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
edited June 2007
well, mongoose should go on both daggers.
Angry on
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
Yeah anything 81DPS + you can mongoose, especially if your not looking at an upgrade anytime soon (I got lucky with the Dagger of Prince)
My guild only has 2 who can do it and we are knocking on SSC, been at kara for ages and cleared it top to bottom pre nerf so it's not that common a drop, but you must have a bleeding edge guild who will do it, a 10g tip with your mats would be about right unless they are greedy (never had that issue tbh).
The mats however, 500-600g a todays prices it seems, thats each hand
Well, considering the price of the enchant mats, i'll probably save the MH enchant for when I have the points for the Arena Season 2 MH, since Emerald Ripper has a limited lifetime.
Wavechaser on
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AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
edited June 2007
you don't need a bleeding edge guild to kill moroes. 10 random people will do.
Posts
Yeah, you have imp sprint and such but, i'd rather have two vanishes, two sprints, two evasions, two CB's, etc etc etc.
Yeah, and in 2v2 Im with that, the increased range on sap in particular is very handy. But when the Fit hits the Shan and your busted out of stealth and cant get back its nice to have some more damage at hand. But thats just a preference. I prefer subtelty as it's just more Roguey from a RP pov and has more fun to be had, it's just not fitting in with raiding so 19/42 allows both for the time being.
Strangely I have never got a 2v2 although I'm quite competent and my 3v3 team's low rank was because we often didn't have the right setup. We had 1800 rating with 31 - 85 or some similar bullshit as rogue/mage/oomkin and pala/priest/oomkin, but 49 - 8 with rogue/healer/lock (he couldn't play as much), half of the losses (and one win) being against the same warr/pala/shammy 2200 rated team. Then the lock left for a more serious 3v3, and I stopped bothering and focused on PvE instead.
Man our 3v3 team is like 69-60 and our rating is only 1500. Wtf?
Once you get to Hellfire, lockpicking is so damn easy. I made it a point to pickpocket any humanoid mobs I came across on my trip from 58 to 70. By the time I hit 70 I had about 45 extra boxes in my bank after maxing my lockpicking. So hit 300, then just save them up once you reach hellfire, if you max it to your level, just save additional ones in your bank for your next ding. Works really well and is a lot less painful than leveling 50 points at once @ 70.
Yeah, it still does quite well, 1450 on Karathress last night and 1490 on Tidewalker until I got triple tombed near the end, which shot that to shit. Really, I miss the CP procs from the offhand more than anything, there were a number of times with Lust where the entire left side of my screen was just
+15 Energy
+15 Energy
+15 Energy
I'm already missing it ;(
I picked up the Season 2 MH yesterday, and went full PVP Combat. I like it alot better than Sealfate/Prep Dagger so far. I just love the fact that if I get knocked out of stealth, it really doesn't matter all that much.
I have yet to try it arena with my Lock partner. Hopeing I can be more usefully than I previously was.
So, I'm now specced all the way up to adrenaline rush, in combat. Couple questions:
I hear much disdain for maces, and the sword spec does look better... But the two best weapons I have at the moment are this and this.
Should I bother to respec to maces, or just live with it until I find some good swords? And what are some good swords to start shooting for? Level 40 atm.
Also, should I keep going in combat to combat potency, or start mucking about in assass? Looking for general "ease of levelling" type talents.
The best advice I can give you, in all honestly, is do not roll a Rogue. Roll a Warrior, mage or lock if you want to dps. Seriously, you will be severely dissapointed at 70.
Weakest PVP Class. Way too many Rogues that want to raid.
Dont really agree with that tbh
I have played a Rogue since EU release and am raiding at Maggy right now having been pimped out in Kara and T4...I got in my raiding guild by writing a good ap, they werent recruting at the time and I was offering nothing more than any other rogue.
There are alot who want to raid but not many who know how / can be bothered to approach the right guilds.
As for DPS, well casters ar a different issue but in our raids we have 1 rogue in kara and 3 on 25 mans as a rule and they usually top the DPS meters and provide some utility on certain fights (aran....), Warriors generate too much threat for less damage than a combat rogue.
PVP, well maybe your right there at the moment /shrug
If you enjoy it stick with it, oh and I would pick up Potency then start in Assas but thats just me, a fast enough OH and its like a constant ARlite
Today I finally made enough Aldor rep to aquire my Vindicator's Brand and enough Arena points to purchase my Off-hand Merciless Gladiator Quickblade so i've respecced to Combat Sword for Raiding, and grinding. But I also want to PvP, arenas and BG's not world ganking, when I have the time. Keeping that in mind I have narrowed it down to two possible specs, though I need opinions on if I should change them slightly, or which is better.
So, here's the first spec, which i've blatently ripped off the Nihilium Combat Rogues, changing it slightly (I don't quite understand why they take 1 point in Remorseless, just seems like a waste especially in boss battles);
Combat Spec 1
As I starred at this spec I began to ask myself "What use am I really going to get out of Endurance? I rarely survive by using it in PvP, only useful against warriors who just overpower and rogues who I either have stunlocked or have me stunlocked. Even if I do end up using it it's only 1.5 minutes off a 5 minute timer, good by not the greatest as I rarely have the chance to use it every 3.5 minutes. It's also useless for Raids, if i'm getting attacked i'm doing something stupid and this isn't going to save me." Looking down the spec I get to Vitality and I know, deep down in my being, that it sucks. 400 base agi gives me what, an extra 8 agi? It's not awful, but it's not as good as Adrenaline Rush which is on the same tier.
At this point I usually start drooling over Riposte. Granted that I survive long enough against those warriors who 3k crit me with Mortal Strike to parry them this would, theoretically, be a delicious talent for PvP against Warriors and Rogues, seriously who even uses the weapon chains anyway?
So I came up with this side spec;
Combat Spec 2
What I desire from you, you delicious forum, is some opinions and advice based of these builds that will be great for raiding, and viable for PvP. I just couldn't see much use in these filler talents that don't significantly add to my use in a raid. Or have I got Vitality pegged all wrong, and when I get good enough gear it's going to be godly? Is my entire fountain of knowledge based on a lie?!... you get the picture.
Thanks for your help.
EDIT: Because the wowhead link didn't work, and spelling.
goddamnit
fuck
Yeah. At least he used to have some interesting and valid points on PvP, but since BC he's pretty much gone down the drain game-wise too.
oh thank God
I thought he was talking about rogues
Seriously though, leveling rogues is done most easily through the combat tree. You won't be an assassin, at least not the 'sneaky sneaky' kind. Combat rogues just get up in the face of their opponents and stab/slash/bludgeon them until they die, which doesn't take long. Once you hit level 50, you might consider respeccing to Assassination for Mutilate, but leveling Mut. is not nearly as easy as leveling combat (though I found it more enjoyable).
that's just gold
Got the good ol' Emerald Ripper off Moroes. I slapped +7 Damage on that one.
Respecced to Combat Mutilate.
Bought mysef the new OH Shiv
What the hell should I put on this thing? I have yet to even bother with enchants since BC has been released so I'm a bit behind the times. I don't think anyone has Mongoose on our server yet, definitely no one from our guild.
100% drop?
I just really don't feel like paying the bullshit gouge pricing a non-guild enchanter will slap me with if I try and go to them. I was just curious if there were any other good BC enchants to put on my OH in the meantime.
240 agility.
My guild only has 2 who can do it and we are knocking on SSC, been at kara for ages and cleared it top to bottom pre nerf so it's not that common a drop, but you must have a bleeding edge guild who will do it, a 10g tip with your mats would be about right unless they are greedy (never had that issue tbh).
The mats however, 500-600g a todays prices it seems, thats each hand
worth it though
Agreed, but +7 weapon damage is a decent 'tide me over' enchant until you have the mats and a trustworthy enchanter for mongoose lined up.
I'm sure it does, but that's pretty hot if it stacks with sinister calling.