So all that worry about West Francia was for naught.
The king had inherited only a single county. He didn't feel that this was sufficient, so he started taking titles from his vassals. They predictably rebelled in the process. The first he put down swiftly as it was but a single count. But then he got overconfident and made a demand of the child-duchess of Anjou. She proved much more resilient and launched a six-county rebellion that, for a time, was actually winning; the Karlings were stretched thin as the powerful East Francia king had finally died, splintering his kingdom into three. Lotharingia was battling two event revolts.
Seeing a brief window of opportunity, I launched an attack on West Francia for the last county of Normandy. I brought in a stack of cheap mercenaries and beseiged three counties at a time. West Francia decided to give up its last Norman holdings to focus on Anjou instead, and in a very timely manner; the other Karling wars ended shortly after, and the power of half of Europe immediately descended upon the poor duchess. Last I looked she was still holding out, but it won't be for long.
Meanwhile my heiress came of age, and oh lordy she's something else. She has a rash of positive traits (including Quick) as well as Grey Eminence, providing her with a staggering 27 Diplomacy. She's now my new Chancellor, and I got a claim on Cornwall super-fast. A year later and I've established a presence on the British Isles. Continued expansion in that direction will be slow, as I need to wait for the truce before taking Cornwall's other county and moving forward into England proper. I could move on Ireland instead, as there are plenty of delicious Holy Wars to be had. However, I'm worried about stretching my armies too thin. My levies are a bit beat up, and I haven't been able to afford upgrades for my provinces due to all the warmongering.
I established the Kingdom of Brittany, which I quickly renamed to the Kingdom of Celtia as I have greater aspirations than a mere corner of Francia. My demesne limit went way up in the process, so I'm working on acquiring all the counties in the duchy of Brittany. I'm still under Gavelkind, though, and I have four children. I changed inheritance to permit women to inherit on equal grounds as men before I created the kingdom, and now I can wait ten years and change again to get off of Gavelkind. Crown Authority just bumped up to Low, however, so I can't get Primogeniture. That's going to mean a little luck will be needed to get the heir I want.
On the other hand, my liege is still young (40), so unless she dies fairly early, the next heir will have a short rule regardless.
So. Lay low, fortify, accumulate power? Or continue expansion into Ireland and Wales (and even West Francia when possible)? I could dream up detailed plans like last time, but I've learned my lesson. That is of no use. Chaos will reign. Flexibility is all that matters.
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
Money is flexibility. It placates vassals, buys armies in emergencies or oppurtunities, may pay for an assassin or two, pays for claims on weak neighbours.
Go forth and raid, and sit on it like a dragon.
An awesome person gifted this to me recently. I have no idea what I'm doing.
That's a familiar feeling. But even when you think you have a handle on it, boom goes the Golden Horde/Pope/Bloody Vikings all up in your bizness.
All you can do is plan and strive toward your vision of what should happen.
Good luck with that.
And welcome to the insanity. There's nothing quite like your first time having your wife killed cause she won't give you a son and your mistress will. Save when it gets turned around on you that is.
CK2 = Medieval Soap Opera game under the veneer of a Grand Strategy Game.
So, again, I experience the enjoyment of watching a family saga unfold before my eyes. I did not begin as Ivar the Boneless, but instead as his brother, King Halfdan Whiteshirt. However, he did not live long. Ivar's brother died in combat as he attempted to avenge his father's murder. Halfdan died on 18 May, 867.
His son and successor, Jarl Sigfrid the Just took over and began to push outward to expand the family's rule. However, less than seven years into his rule, he and his men, on the way to conquer, stopped to stay at an oddly abandoned inn. The sudden explosion on the morning of May 1st, 874 that soon followed immediately put Sigfrid's 4 year old son Dag onto the throne. Dag and his younger brother Toste were surrounded by a hostile court and hostile vassals. Dag found himself in the care of a sinister and conniving Regent who commanded legions of Spys. In the time immediately after his coronation, a priest of the Dead God came into his court and warned Dag that if he did not convert to the One True Faith of Christ, then Dag would be beset by evil and doomed to die. The Spymaster had the priest siezed and imprisoned immediately. It would not due for the boy to worry unnecessarily, he said to his liege.
In truth, the Regent merely wanted to not give Dag warning or reason to be cautious. He isolated the child and then, on the 28th of May, 878, Dag was found killed on an abandoned stretch of road. It was an accident, they said.
Toste learned from the example. The young eyes of the 6 year old newly crowned Jarl saw the sinister smile that crept along his Spymaster's face. He felt the coldness of the man's touch as it lay on his shoulder, as the man swore to guide him as Regent.
Toste lay low. He allowed his Regent to use the massive remaining armies that had brought his grandfather Halfdan to power. They began to conquer the small island to the West, the one named Irland in the old stories. County after county fell. And Toste slowly moved those of his court out. He gave away land after land, as soon as they were conquered, letting them think they were getting the better of him. Slowly he pulled men and women around him who seemed to truly care for the young Petty King. A kindness occurred when, for a brief moment, a gentle and wise man became his Regent...but it did not last long. Suddenly, the sinister Spymaster reasserted his Regency. And plots to either declare Independence or to put a cousin on the throne were whispered openly in his court.
It was a sudden piece of divine chance, a gift from Odin the All-Father, that saved Toste.
The gift took the form of an attempted Usurpation. Suddenly, 6 Counts declared they would decide who would be their ruler. They would put one of their own on the throne and command the soon-to-be-born nation of Irland. They abandoned their rightful ruler. And the hated Spymaster left, confident that without him, the child would lose.
But the rebellion only cleared the court of those who plotted against Toste. With a wisdom beyond his years, he selected a new teacher to teach him. A new Regent was appointed, one that watched over Toste with a wary eye, but it was a true eye, not one filled with lies and derision. And then Toste turned his massive army against his former vassals. His newly appointed Council fell in behind him, giving the child their support, support that had been denied him for years under the old Council. Toste broke the rebellion swiftly.
When the dust settled, Toste brought his former Spymaster and Regent before him. He imprisoned the traitor/murderer. He stripped the man of his titles. He gifted those same titles to a loyal follower. And then, in the cold morning of a Winter's day, he had the man killed in the ancient manner. No swift death for this man, only the pain of a Blood Eagle.
Toste then formed the Kingdom of Irland. Spread over two landmasses, it crouches and waits. For now, the Western Island is all but completely under his rule. The main island is now descending into wars between the Catholic nations as they attempt to find who their Dead God wishes to rule. But Toste knows they work toward a dead end. He has seen the path he must take. He has learned of an old Empire and heard the tales of glory and legends of his religion. And knows he is destined to bring forth an Empire of Odin's Warriors.
And on this day, the 10th of October, 887, King Toste of Irland, turned 16. He is no longer a ward. He is King in his own right. Perhaps he will take a concubine now. But he knows what his first order of Holy business will be. For you see, King Toste has kept a couple of the blessed rebels in his prison for just this season, as well as the priest who prophesied his brother's death 10 years ago. In a month, Toste will host his first Great Blot.
You see, this, this is why I love CKII. Sure, to the untrained eye, it may seem like a glorified Risk game, but the game gives you a framework, (like traits, relationship values, events, etc) so all you have to do is add a dash of imagination (and a talent for writing), and you've got a family saga worthy of a novel.
The pile of "weird situations" just keep pilling up from the last patch.
So they changed how much land you can give out to vassal republics (10% of your total size). But this doesn't prevent you from creating the vassal republics.
So currently, I have 1 vassal republic who controls its own land and 2 vassal republic which only control the cities in my county. So for example, it is now possible to be in control of Venice as a feudal character AND have a vassal republic HQ there.
I think all cities are republics and thats always how it has been. They don't get noble families until they hit duke tier.
Yes, but you cannot keep the primary holding/control of the county when you elevate them from city vassal to republic vassal (unless they have a primary holding elsewhere).
This is what happens here. Take Venice for example. As a 1 county king I can give out the duchy of venice to a city vassal. He becomes a grand mayor, but doesn't receive the county like he normally should. Because I only have 1 county left, I shouldn't even be able to give away the duchy (at least in my previous experience).
Also, fuck my brother. He usurped me, threw me into jail and made himself into Pope and King-Bishop of Venice. Damn him!
Yogo on
0
TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
Getting tossed into jail in this game -sucks- worse than it does in Monopoly.
We need more events for when you're stuck in jail.
Yeah there should be some events centered around your spymaster to break you out and regent events (a regent that didn't like you could even bribe to keep you in.)
+1
TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
Well there -are- regent events in the game but I've never had one trigger in jail.
I've been put into house arrest a very few times but that's about it for events when you're jailed as far as I know. Then again I don't get jailed very often considering I often build Intrigue+Diplomacy before anything else.
Well there -are- regent events in the game but I've never had one trigger in jail.
I've been put into house arrest a very few times but that's about it for events when you're jailed as far as I know. Then again I don't get jailed very often considering I often build Intrigue+Diplomacy before anything else.
You can also get fellow vassals to help bail you out via events.
Oh man elective in this game is super weird. I noticed that i got the message to nominate a successor to Aquitane and East Francia. So i obviously elected myself then just dropped cash assassinating the front running candidates until i was heir as they hadn't cast/calculated new votes. Then when this happened i just murdered the king and 'lucked' (murdered) my way into being the king of both Aquitane and East Francia.
Want to play co-op games? Feel free to hit me up!
+2
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Oh man elective in this game is super weird. I noticed that i got the message to nominate a successor to Aquitane and East Francia. So i obviously elected myself then just dropped cash assassinating the front running candidates until i was heir as they hadn't cast/calculated new votes. Then when this happened i just murdered the king and 'lucked' (murdered) my way into being the king of both Aquitane and East Francia.
That was how I got my cousin into the Papacy, though it required fewer assassinations.
The papacy required many assasinations. Also Bishops/cardinals? super easy to murder. For all of them it was like 95-65% success with 0-15% detection
I suspect it's because two holy orders effectively control the Papacy in my game, but I found the assassination process less than straightforward. It helped that my cousin was pretty damn electable in the first place, though. Only had to kill two or three Cardinals and the new Pope.
I'm not exactly new to Paradox type deep-strategy games, but I'm having a hard time getting into this. How do I make Count-level starts go somewhere? Anywhere?
0
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
I'm not exactly new to Paradox type deep-strategy games, but I'm having a hard time getting into this. How do I make Count-level starts go somewhere? Anywhere?
Fabricate / marry into claims on adjacent counties that are part of the same de jure duchy. Create or usurp said duchy (or demand it from an inexplicably low-diplomacy liege). Roll from there.
Particularly inside larger de facto kingdoms it can be difficult to end up in charge of a legit crown, but the duchy part is usually not too tough.
It seems like Sons of Abraham has made the game significantly glitchier for Macs, or at least for my Mac.
The game has been pretty buggy and weird since the last few updates came out, in general, but actually buying and installing Sons of Abraham made it even worse. Now the only way I can even get the game to open has the unintended consequence of disabling all of the DLC.
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
I'm not exactly new to Paradox type deep-strategy games, but I'm having a hard time getting into this. How do I make Count-level starts go somewhere? Anywhere?
Make sure you use mercs. Mercs are important as a count/duke, especially when going up against equal or larger foes.
In Ireland for example, everyone has similar troops numbers at the begining of the game. Mercs tilt the balance in your favor.
Look for De Jure Duchies and Kingdoms. Once you control 51%, you can either usurp or create them, gaining claims on the rest of the provinces in the area.
Getting going is the easy part, imo. Its learning how to keep it all together that's hard.
Oookay... so, what prevents Dukes/Kings from doing the same to me with greater resources/effectiveness?
If the answer is, "the AI isn't as good at the game as the player", then I may have chosen the wrong game...
Oookay... so, what prevents Dukes/Kings from doing the same to me with greater resources/effectiveness?
If the answer is, "the AI isn't as good at the game as the player", then I may have chosen the wrong game...
They tend to spend more of their money on other things and as such don't have as much left over at any particular time for mercs and such. And I mean if they're a King or a Duke and you're a Count they're probably kept busy with bigger problems.
Plus I mean you don't really expect the AI in ANY game to be as good as a human player, do you?
Oookay... so, what prevents Dukes/Kings from doing the same to me with greater resources/effectiveness?
If the answer is, "the AI isn't as good at the game as the player", then I may have chosen the wrong game...
They're also guided by their relationship with you, and their own traits/personality
Well, that's the whole point of the game. You need to closely monitor and deal with threats.
Sometimes, just like in history, you lose and can do nothing about it. Inherit a province in the HRE as Scotland? Enjoy a 50,000 versus 5,000 war.
Most of the time, its about marrying into good alliances, killing off rivals, managing your kingdom well, and striking while they are weak.
Marrying into good alliances: have your daughters marry powerful families/kingdoms. There will be a blue flag in the corner in the spouse search screen if you gain an alliance from the marriage. For example, in the old gods the duke of Brittany starts off with a Norse neighbor with a large army. But the duke is single, and the king of France has several lovely daughters. Marriage to one of them will usually provide you with French aid to turn a one sided slaughter that you will lose into a one sided slaughter that you will win.
However, be careful of who you attack, as they may have good allies themselves.
Managing your Realm: Make sure that you deal with any unruly vassals. Vassals that hold too much land (nicknamed super-dukes), have claims on your titles, or are unhappy/ambitious are all dangerous. Throw parties, torments, and people into dungeons to prevent civil wars. The AI is smart enough to exploit these weaknesses.
Be on the look out for different cultures (which provide negative modifiers) and different religions/heresies (also negative modifiers) in your realm, as they are more likely to start shit.
Finally, but on the lookout for those in foreign courts with claims in your lands. Did your brother flee to Ireland? Did the king of France make a feeble claim to your land?
To deal with these use
Assassins: There are two main ways to kill people: via assassins or via plots. Assassins cost a lot of gold and provide a % chance of seducing. Plots offer better odds, and are free, but require you to gain enough support amoungst the targets peers until you can make a move. Both provide a chance of the you involvement being discovered, but they can remove rivals and sow anarchy. Your brother is now dead, and the King of France is now a young kid barely able to maintain control of his lands, much less threaten yours.
Also use assassins to clean up your realm and open the way for possible favorable inheritances.
Finally, strike while they are weak: As Denmark, I recently conquered the much larger England by exploiting a civil war. The King of England, fighting his own country men, only had a small % of his available troops. I was able to kill these off and take the throne myself. Wait until large enemies are tied up in other wars before making your move. Did Venice ally with the Byzantine Empire? No worries, the Arabs are currently tieing down all Byzantine troops. Make your move now!
Play your first couple of games with the Dwarf Fort mentality of "losing is fun!" Try different things and learn how they play out. Once you have a good feel for the game, make a serious go. Learning what to do when and when to push your luck and how far are important aspects to this game.
To put it another way: Why start as a Count? For that matter, why start as a Duke?
If the only answer is, "for the challenge!", then the whole game strikes me as being extremely redundant. You make the same decisions whether you start with one holding or a hundred.
Not to rain on the parade... I just feel like I must be missing something.
Iunno. Maybe this one just isn't going to click with me. I definitely enjoy reading the stories in this thread, though!
Oookay... so, what prevents Dukes/Kings from doing the same to me with greater resources/effectiveness?
If the answer is, "the AI isn't as good at the game as the player", then I may have chosen the wrong game...
The way I tend to start my games and im barely novice myself so im sure better people will give ideas.
1> Use your chancellor to fabricate a claim (this is a chump way of doing things but still is my main way of starting, gets more expensive the more area you own).
2> Inheritance (as mentioned above but I'll go slightly more in depth). In several areas of the game you can start with family who controls counties/dutchies etc. You are somewhere on the the inheritance list you can use intrigue to elimate heirs until you become the heir of of some land/titles and then elimate your family. Again inheritance rules can vary, but spain has multiple kingdoms you can consolidate quickly with high intrigue. These rules still nip me in the bud as I think pressing a claim for X in my court will just add X as a vassal if I win the war but turns out they are not part of my dynasty and return my kindness with a dejure claim on my counties or a vassals.
3> De Jure claims can be gained by creating/usurping dutchies (note holding too many dutchies will make your vassals hate you... destroying them also makes them hate you... SOOOO HARD).
4> Selective breeding marrying your heir to someone who has claims (again claim rules very between strong and weak claims and the status of the current liege (female/regent))
Most players seem to be at a point where they impose limits on themselves to bring the challenge up, no mercs, no land wars, no assassinations for gold as there seems to be a game mechanic tipping point where you can game the system fairly hard. I am not at that point and seem to work for the mercs as that is where all my gold goes.
Also, grabbing duchies and such tends to be relatively easy, the hard part is maintaining it all when you get old and your diplomacy starts taking hits so that your heir can take over.
To put it another way: Why start as a Count? For that matter, why start as a Duke?
If the only answer is, "for the challenge!", then the whole game strikes me as being extremely redundant. You make the same decisions whether you start with one holding or a hundred.
Not to rain on the parade... I just feel like I must be missing something.
Iunno. Maybe this one just isn't going to click with me. I definitely enjoy reading the stories in this thread, though!
The layers of this game run really deep, and they aren't at all apparent on a cursory look. In fact, I'm 200 hours into this game and still uncovering new layers of things to consider.
To answer your basic question, this game is a sandbox (like most Paradox games). You start somewhere because you want to start there, and your goals are yours to make for yourself. There are no set missions (apart from achievements), and your choice of start definitely informs your early-game difficulty.
Thing is, every game plays out very differently. At first you won't notice this; events will look rather random, perhaps as though the AI was just rolling dice to decide what to do. But later you'll start to see the weave of connections in character relationships, traits, alliances, and so on.
The game is also designed so that the challenge is very different depending on your rank. If you're a lowly Count, then there are a lot of things you don't have to worry about. You have no vassals capable of real rebellion, you're well under your demesne limit, and you probably have relatively few enemies. That means you can usually just focus on growth & expansion in a relatively straightforward manner. On the other hand, you're also very weak; if someone does get their sights on you, you may have difficulty fighting back. The key to a Count start is to recognize your early threats (duke liege that covets your county, bordering neighbors of a different religion, someone powerful having a claim on your county, etc) and come up with a plan for dealing with them. Sometimes it's murder, sometimes it's marriage, sometimes it's switching allegiance, sometimes it's hiring mercenaries, and sometimes it's simply praying.
On the other hand, once you become a duke or a king, everything changes. Now you have vassals, and your power depends largely on how much they like you. You need them to like you to provide you with full taxes and levies (troops), and if they hate you they might rebel (including joining dangerous factions in which your vassals band together against you). So from that angle, it becomes a game of determining who you can placate and who you need to remove. Removing vassals is a relatively delicate operation, because if you're openly tyrannical, you'll piss off your other vassals and enter a downward spiral. On top of that, you're probably reaching your demesne limit too, so you're trying to shuffle around to get the best counties for yourself, figuring out who to give new counties to, and so forth.
And that's just the internal picture! At that rank, you have a big target on your head, and not just from vassals. If you're a duke, your king might hate you and want your land, or he might be squelching your expansion and cash with harsh laws. At the same time, other dukes want to take your duchy in their quest to ascend to the throne. And dangerous neighbors might want your territory, too. If you're a king, the latter goes triple; you'll find yourself in wars almost all the time.
Sounds like the higher ranks are more fun than Count? Well, kind of. I mean, there's more to do for sure. But there's something to be said for the journey of going from Count to empire. Your expansion choices tend to be more flexible, and the result of those conquests are the foundations of your empire, making the choices very interesting. At higher ranks you generally just tend to go for whatever good casus belli you can get ahold of (fabrication quickly becomes inefficient when you're fairly large -- which is why it doesn't happen too often to you if you're a count yourself).
Anyway, it's totally understandable if the game doesn't click. Nothing to be done for that! But I can say that there is a whole lot of game in there.
Fleur de Alys on
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
The stories are the thing really. I really like Paradox games, and I still almost find them more fun to read (or write, considering I've done what, three of them?) about than play.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
The byz is greatly favored by the patch changes. It still has CB on every neighbors on a ducal level, but is less likely to lose Muslim holy wars due to the +50 vassal bonus meaning a ton of defensive troops.
And the same changes, combined with increased event stacks, significantly slow the Caliph from quickly unifying the Gulf and overpowering Byz a century after start.
Posts
You must live in Australia :-p
The king had inherited only a single county. He didn't feel that this was sufficient, so he started taking titles from his vassals. They predictably rebelled in the process. The first he put down swiftly as it was but a single count. But then he got overconfident and made a demand of the child-duchess of Anjou. She proved much more resilient and launched a six-county rebellion that, for a time, was actually winning; the Karlings were stretched thin as the powerful East Francia king had finally died, splintering his kingdom into three. Lotharingia was battling two event revolts.
Seeing a brief window of opportunity, I launched an attack on West Francia for the last county of Normandy. I brought in a stack of cheap mercenaries and beseiged three counties at a time. West Francia decided to give up its last Norman holdings to focus on Anjou instead, and in a very timely manner; the other Karling wars ended shortly after, and the power of half of Europe immediately descended upon the poor duchess. Last I looked she was still holding out, but it won't be for long.
Meanwhile my heiress came of age, and oh lordy she's something else. She has a rash of positive traits (including Quick) as well as Grey Eminence, providing her with a staggering 27 Diplomacy. She's now my new Chancellor, and I got a claim on Cornwall super-fast. A year later and I've established a presence on the British Isles. Continued expansion in that direction will be slow, as I need to wait for the truce before taking Cornwall's other county and moving forward into England proper. I could move on Ireland instead, as there are plenty of delicious Holy Wars to be had. However, I'm worried about stretching my armies too thin. My levies are a bit beat up, and I haven't been able to afford upgrades for my provinces due to all the warmongering.
I established the Kingdom of Brittany, which I quickly renamed to the Kingdom of Celtia as I have greater aspirations than a mere corner of Francia. My demesne limit went way up in the process, so I'm working on acquiring all the counties in the duchy of Brittany. I'm still under Gavelkind, though, and I have four children. I changed inheritance to permit women to inherit on equal grounds as men before I created the kingdom, and now I can wait ten years and change again to get off of Gavelkind. Crown Authority just bumped up to Low, however, so I can't get Primogeniture. That's going to mean a little luck will be needed to get the heir I want.
On the other hand, my liege is still young (40), so unless she dies fairly early, the next heir will have a short rule regardless.
So. Lay low, fortify, accumulate power? Or continue expansion into Ireland and Wales (and even West Francia when possible)? I could dream up detailed plans like last time, but I've learned my lesson. That is of no use. Chaos will reign. Flexibility is all that matters.
Go forth and raid, and sit on it like a dragon.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
All you can do is plan and strive toward your vision of what should happen.
Good luck with that.
And welcome to the insanity. There's nothing quite like your first time having your wife killed cause she won't give you a son and your mistress will. Save when it gets turned around on you that is.
CK2 = Medieval Soap Opera game under the veneer of a Grand Strategy Game.
Installed the beta patch.
New Zealand! Australia's slightly cooler but less filled-with-death neighbour.
I do indeed, SoA, Old Gods, Sword of Islam, and Legacy of Rome
Want to play co-op games? Feel free to hit me up!
You see, this, this is why I love CKII. Sure, to the untrained eye, it may seem like a glorified Risk game, but the game gives you a framework, (like traits, relationship values, events, etc) so all you have to do is add a dash of imagination (and a talent for writing), and you've got a family saga worthy of a novel.
WoW
Dear Satan.....
So they changed how much land you can give out to vassal republics (10% of your total size). But this doesn't prevent you from creating the vassal republics.
So currently, I have 1 vassal republic who controls its own land and 2 vassal republic which only control the cities in my county. So for example, it is now possible to be in control of Venice as a feudal character AND have a vassal republic HQ there.
It just keeps on getting more and more silly
Yes, but you cannot keep the primary holding/control of the county when you elevate them from city vassal to republic vassal (unless they have a primary holding elsewhere).
This is what happens here. Take Venice for example. As a 1 county king I can give out the duchy of venice to a city vassal. He becomes a grand mayor, but doesn't receive the county like he normally should. Because I only have 1 county left, I shouldn't even be able to give away the duchy (at least in my previous experience).
Also, fuck my brother. He usurped me, threw me into jail and made himself into Pope and King-Bishop of Venice. Damn him!
We need more events for when you're stuck in jail.
I've been put into house arrest a very few times but that's about it for events when you're jailed as far as I know. Then again I don't get jailed very often considering I often build Intrigue+Diplomacy before anything else.
You can also get fellow vassals to help bail you out via events.
Want to play co-op games? Feel free to hit me up!
That was how I got my cousin into the Papacy, though it required fewer assassinations.
Want to play co-op games? Feel free to hit me up!
I suspect it's because two holy orders effectively control the Papacy in my game, but I found the assassination process less than straightforward. It helped that my cousin was pretty damn electable in the first place, though. Only had to kill two or three Cardinals and the new Pope.
If we need a player to take a turn in the succession game, let me know as I will be free 24/7 until News Years.
Fabricate / marry into claims on adjacent counties that are part of the same de jure duchy. Create or usurp said duchy (or demand it from an inexplicably low-diplomacy liege). Roll from there.
Particularly inside larger de facto kingdoms it can be difficult to end up in charge of a legit crown, but the duchy part is usually not too tough.
The game has been pretty buggy and weird since the last few updates came out, in general, but actually buying and installing Sons of Abraham made it even worse. Now the only way I can even get the game to open has the unintended consequence of disabling all of the DLC.
Make sure you use mercs. Mercs are important as a count/duke, especially when going up against equal or larger foes.
In Ireland for example, everyone has similar troops numbers at the begining of the game. Mercs tilt the balance in your favor.
Look for De Jure Duchies and Kingdoms. Once you control 51%, you can either usurp or create them, gaining claims on the rest of the provinces in the area.
Getting going is the easy part, imo. Its learning how to keep it all together that's hard.
If the answer is, "the AI isn't as good at the game as the player", then I may have chosen the wrong game...
They tend to spend more of their money on other things and as such don't have as much left over at any particular time for mercs and such. And I mean if they're a King or a Duke and you're a Count they're probably kept busy with bigger problems.
Plus I mean you don't really expect the AI in ANY game to be as good as a human player, do you?
They're also guided by their relationship with you, and their own traits/personality
Want to play co-op games? Feel free to hit me up!
Sometimes, just like in history, you lose and can do nothing about it. Inherit a province in the HRE as Scotland? Enjoy a 50,000 versus 5,000 war.
Most of the time, its about marrying into good alliances, killing off rivals, managing your kingdom well, and striking while they are weak.
Marrying into good alliances: have your daughters marry powerful families/kingdoms. There will be a blue flag in the corner in the spouse search screen if you gain an alliance from the marriage. For example, in the old gods the duke of Brittany starts off with a Norse neighbor with a large army. But the duke is single, and the king of France has several lovely daughters. Marriage to one of them will usually provide you with French aid to turn a one sided slaughter that you will lose into a one sided slaughter that you will win.
However, be careful of who you attack, as they may have good allies themselves.
Managing your Realm: Make sure that you deal with any unruly vassals. Vassals that hold too much land (nicknamed super-dukes), have claims on your titles, or are unhappy/ambitious are all dangerous. Throw parties, torments, and people into dungeons to prevent civil wars. The AI is smart enough to exploit these weaknesses.
Be on the look out for different cultures (which provide negative modifiers) and different religions/heresies (also negative modifiers) in your realm, as they are more likely to start shit.
Finally, but on the lookout for those in foreign courts with claims in your lands. Did your brother flee to Ireland? Did the king of France make a feeble claim to your land?
To deal with these use
Assassins: There are two main ways to kill people: via assassins or via plots. Assassins cost a lot of gold and provide a % chance of seducing. Plots offer better odds, and are free, but require you to gain enough support amoungst the targets peers until you can make a move. Both provide a chance of the you involvement being discovered, but they can remove rivals and sow anarchy. Your brother is now dead, and the King of France is now a young kid barely able to maintain control of his lands, much less threaten yours.
Also use assassins to clean up your realm and open the way for possible favorable inheritances.
Finally, strike while they are weak: As Denmark, I recently conquered the much larger England by exploiting a civil war. The King of England, fighting his own country men, only had a small % of his available troops. I was able to kill these off and take the throne myself. Wait until large enemies are tied up in other wars before making your move. Did Venice ally with the Byzantine Empire? No worries, the Arabs are currently tieing down all Byzantine troops. Make your move now!
Play your first couple of games with the Dwarf Fort mentality of "losing is fun!" Try different things and learn how they play out. Once you have a good feel for the game, make a serious go. Learning what to do when and when to push your luck and how far are important aspects to this game.
If the only answer is, "for the challenge!", then the whole game strikes me as being extremely redundant. You make the same decisions whether you start with one holding or a hundred.
Not to rain on the parade... I just feel like I must be missing something.
Iunno. Maybe this one just isn't going to click with me. I definitely enjoy reading the stories in this thread, though!
The way I tend to start my games and im barely novice myself so im sure better people will give ideas.
1> Use your chancellor to fabricate a claim (this is a chump way of doing things but still is my main way of starting, gets more expensive the more area you own).
2> Inheritance (as mentioned above but I'll go slightly more in depth). In several areas of the game you can start with family who controls counties/dutchies etc. You are somewhere on the the inheritance list you can use intrigue to elimate heirs until you become the heir of of some land/titles and then elimate your family. Again inheritance rules can vary, but spain has multiple kingdoms you can consolidate quickly with high intrigue. These rules still nip me in the bud as I think pressing a claim for X in my court will just add X as a vassal if I win the war but turns out they are not part of my dynasty and return my kindness with a dejure claim on my counties or a vassals.
3> De Jure claims can be gained by creating/usurping dutchies (note holding too many dutchies will make your vassals hate you... destroying them also makes them hate you... SOOOO HARD).
4> Selective breeding marrying your heir to someone who has claims (again claim rules very between strong and weak claims and the status of the current liege (female/regent))
Most players seem to be at a point where they impose limits on themselves to bring the challenge up, no mercs, no land wars, no assassinations for gold as there seems to be a game mechanic tipping point where you can game the system fairly hard. I am not at that point and seem to work for the mercs as that is where all my gold goes.
You really need to organize that OP with links to the updates for people who hadn't seen this thread! Ideally with witty titles.
To answer your basic question, this game is a sandbox (like most Paradox games). You start somewhere because you want to start there, and your goals are yours to make for yourself. There are no set missions (apart from achievements), and your choice of start definitely informs your early-game difficulty.
Thing is, every game plays out very differently. At first you won't notice this; events will look rather random, perhaps as though the AI was just rolling dice to decide what to do. But later you'll start to see the weave of connections in character relationships, traits, alliances, and so on.
The game is also designed so that the challenge is very different depending on your rank. If you're a lowly Count, then there are a lot of things you don't have to worry about. You have no vassals capable of real rebellion, you're well under your demesne limit, and you probably have relatively few enemies. That means you can usually just focus on growth & expansion in a relatively straightforward manner. On the other hand, you're also very weak; if someone does get their sights on you, you may have difficulty fighting back. The key to a Count start is to recognize your early threats (duke liege that covets your county, bordering neighbors of a different religion, someone powerful having a claim on your county, etc) and come up with a plan for dealing with them. Sometimes it's murder, sometimes it's marriage, sometimes it's switching allegiance, sometimes it's hiring mercenaries, and sometimes it's simply praying.
On the other hand, once you become a duke or a king, everything changes. Now you have vassals, and your power depends largely on how much they like you. You need them to like you to provide you with full taxes and levies (troops), and if they hate you they might rebel (including joining dangerous factions in which your vassals band together against you). So from that angle, it becomes a game of determining who you can placate and who you need to remove. Removing vassals is a relatively delicate operation, because if you're openly tyrannical, you'll piss off your other vassals and enter a downward spiral. On top of that, you're probably reaching your demesne limit too, so you're trying to shuffle around to get the best counties for yourself, figuring out who to give new counties to, and so forth.
And that's just the internal picture! At that rank, you have a big target on your head, and not just from vassals. If you're a duke, your king might hate you and want your land, or he might be squelching your expansion and cash with harsh laws. At the same time, other dukes want to take your duchy in their quest to ascend to the throne. And dangerous neighbors might want your territory, too. If you're a king, the latter goes triple; you'll find yourself in wars almost all the time.
Sounds like the higher ranks are more fun than Count? Well, kind of. I mean, there's more to do for sure. But there's something to be said for the journey of going from Count to empire. Your expansion choices tend to be more flexible, and the result of those conquests are the foundations of your empire, making the choices very interesting. At higher ranks you generally just tend to go for whatever good casus belli you can get ahold of (fabrication quickly becomes inefficient when you're fairly large -- which is why it doesn't happen too often to you if you're a count yourself).
Anyway, it's totally understandable if the game doesn't click. Nothing to be done for that! But I can say that there is a whole lot of game in there.
Want to play co-op games? Feel free to hit me up!
And the same changes, combined with increased event stacks, significantly slow the Caliph from quickly unifying the Gulf and overpowering Byz a century after start.
The patch updates?