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Crusader Kings 2; Charlemagne vs Carloman, Fratricide 2.0

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Posts

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Here's a legitimate complaint about the new patch: If my game crashes (which happens often, not sure why) and I was in the middle of a siege, when I go back and reload my game the siege displays my forces as having not enough people to siege, regardless of the size of the army, and displays the army size as 0 on the siege screen, which leads to an auto defeat and my troops being forced into a retreat.

    usnTyq4.jpg
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • YogoYogo Registered User regular
    More observation from the new patch:

    - If you start as one of the counts of the Idrilsil Sultan, you can conquer the other Tribes within the kingdom without worries. The CA level starts at autonomous, so you have free reign. You can easily get up to 5-6 countries in a row. Just remember that you won't be as powerful as previously.
    - You can easily rebel against your liege if they fail a war or two. Sadly, it is probably not a good idea in the long term since your troop quality and quantity are sorely lacking compared to the feudal Muslim troops.
    - Being Muslim means Agnatic Open succession which is way better than Elective Gavelkind.

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    Kamiro wrote: »
    Started a game as an Indian ruler. At some point I lost the option to subjugate. Are there conditions that arise that make it so you can't do that anymore? I've got all this spare Karma I could be using to conquer large portions of the sub continent.

    Also, my children are now a lower caste than me, but matching my wife. I totally didn't pay attention to caste when marrying. Did I just screw myself in that regard? I noticed that I can't offer my children to marry pretty much every princess since they don't like their caste. Luckily, I'm past the point where I need the alliances of the big maharajas, since I am pretty big myself now.

    Are you Buddhist or Jain? If so, caste traits won't matter. They will matter if you are Hindu or plan to convert to Hinduism at some point.

    Platy on
  • DomhnallDomhnall Minty D. Vision! ScotlandRegistered User regular
    How do I make money as a tribal unreformed norse? I cant seem to raid anywhere. I need to form Sweden before everything splits but need about 300 gold to do so and my guy is 40. =(

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  • YogoYogo Registered User regular
    Domhnall wrote: »
    How do I make money as a tribal unreformed norse? I cant seem to raid anywhere. I need to form Sweden before everything splits but need about 300 gold to do so and my guy is 40. =(

    Assuming you are NOT using the new DLC, you should raid the Republics along the Italian cost. They provide plenty of loot.

    If you are using the new DLC, I can't help you as I have no idea what the situation is in 769.

  • DomhnallDomhnall Minty D. Vision! ScotlandRegistered User regular
    Aye, new dlc. Gone the area on the East of Sweden, Svipjod (well, a letter like P i don't know) and can't raid the Lappish or Norse no boats either. My wife keeps giving me sons!

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  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    Domhnall wrote: »
    Aye, new dlc. Gone the area on the East of Sweden, Svipjod (well, a letter like P i don't know) and can't raid the Lappish or Norse no boats either. My wife keeps giving me sons!

    that p character is Þ. It's like Th.

    Þor = Thor

    jakobaggerRhan938thDoe
  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    Domhnall wrote: »
    How do I make money as a tribal unreformed norse? I cant seem to raid anywhere. I need to form Sweden before everything splits but need about 300 gold to do so and my guy is 40. =(

    I just tested it, you can raid other pagans as long as they're not Germanic. The money I got was meagre, however.

    I don't know, maybe this is supposed to make it difficult to create the Norse kingdoms or unite Scandinavia before the Viking Age starts. Mechanics still seem rough though, for example, the last stage of Legalism doesn't unlock anything.

    Platy on
    Domhnall
  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    I've now spent a couple of hours just looking at the new options, the new map, titles and dynasties.

    Some weird things: the Ragnar in the 867 start is strong, 769 Ragnar isn't. 867 Ragnar now also died at the ripe age of 94 (while still going on raids).

  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    Ragnar gets an event in childhood that gives him Strong, actually.

    Has anybody messed around with the Zunists yet? I'm curious if they get anything special, or if they are simply another generic pagan group.

    steam_sig.png
  • BYToadyBYToady Registered User regular
    This tribal calling of allies makes it annoying to figure out if your enemy has a huge pile of available armies or not.

    As in, I have to like, do more than click on his tree and hover over a single spot.

    Battletag BYToady#1454
  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    How are the combat changes working out in terms of combat score calculation being tweaked?

    Re: Bumrushing small nations in holy wars and forcing them to submit before the massive impossible death army of their religious friends shows up?

  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    The achievement for divorcing a Lombard princess isn't triggering for me, despite divorcing the princess tge achievement is named after.

    Then again, I'm divorcing via event. That might be the reason.

    Shadowhope on
    Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
  • ArdentArdent Down UpsideRegistered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    Ah, new DLC day.

    Where people crawl out from under rocks to complain that a relatively small developer making an incredibly moddable niche game and providing ongoing support and content years after the release of the game is nickle-and-diming them. Paradox is forcing them to pay extra for cosmetic DLC, and a $15 price tag on release for a DLC that will add dozens of hours to the game for people and that'll be on sale for less than $5.00 within the year is too much.

    Whenever I start to have faith in humanity, new DLC day for Paradox games comes along and helps me free myself from my delusions.
    I think this DLC will put me over $200 spent on CKII.

    At just under 1100 hours played, that's a relative cost value of $0.18 an hour. That's buying it mostly at-release. Also not counting the three full collections I've bought to give away (which would still keep it under a dollar an hour).

    As far as I'm concerned those gooses can go poop on someone else's lawn.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
    ShadowhopeRhan9
  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    How are the combat changes working out in terms of combat score calculation being tweaked?

    Re: Bumrushing small nations in holy wars and forcing them to submit before the massive impossible death army of their religious friends shows up?

    Well I know that if you occupy all their holdings, you still get 100% warscore and can enforce demands, so if they are small enough this will still work. You only need to win a battle that gives 5% warscore otherwise, which is often possible if their allies don't gather up their forces and attack in one big blob. 5% is a pretty low bar really, it doesn't take that much to get, and if you declare war and they immediately raise their levies, and then you stomp them with your (now nerfed) retinue or whatever, you should easily be able to get a large enough battle. I'm pretty sure it is mostly there for the benefit of the players, so you don't lose a war without being able to fight back at all against the horde armies or an adventurer.

    I would be interested to hear how it is working out in practice, though.

    steam_sig.png
  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Are tribal landholders now locked to agnatic succession? Kinda feel :/ about that. Remember some games in which I enjoyed being a badass Viking queen.

  • ComradebotComradebot Lord of Dinosaurs Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    Domhnall wrote: »
    How do I make money as a tribal unreformed norse? I cant seem to raid anywhere. I need to form Sweden before everything splits but need about 300 gold to do so and my guy is 40. =(

    I just tested it, you can raid other pagans as long as they're not Germanic. The money I got was meagre, however.

    I don't know, maybe this is supposed to make it difficult to create the Norse kingdoms or unite Scandinavia before the Viking Age starts. Mechanics still seem rough though, for example, the last stage of Legalism doesn't unlock anything.

    Aye, making money as a tribal isn't easy.

    Started as the Chief of Ili on the eastern edge of the world (seriously, apparently Ili is in present day China, that's how far off the grid this guy is) and it's been pretty amusing. Thankfully I managed to conquer a county to my west that allowed me to then raid into a single county of some Muslims to my south in Khiva, and that eventually gave me the funds to form the High Chiefdom of Zhetysu after I'd amassed all of its de jure lands.

    Now I'm seriously considering invading those same Muslims, though I may instead just spend some prestige to improve my holdings (need me some horse archers) and test the waters with a conquest of the one county I've been raiding of there's instead, rather than a full-blown Karluk invasion of Khiva.

  • StarZapperStarZapper Vermont, Bizzaro world.Registered User regular
    Personally, while I'm tempted to jump back into it and try the new DLC, I've learned from experience to wait a few weeks for the patch to fix for whatever problems this one has introduced. God, I remember how painful rebellions were after Raja's hit...

    ElvenshaeFleur de Alys38thDoeDelmain
  • KonphujunKonphujun Illinois, USARegistered User regular
    StarZapper wrote: »
    Personally, while I'm tempted to jump back into it and try the new DLC, I've learned from experience to wait a few weeks for the patch to fix for whatever problems this one has introduced. God, I remember how painful rebellions were after Raja's hit...

    This is one of the few times I'm glad I don't have the funds available for an expansion the day it releases. Granted, come friday I'll probably get it, but that should give time to at least know what problems/bugs I'm walking into.

    This will also be the first time I'm going to buy an expansion at full price, given the amount of enjoyment I've gotten out of this game at such a tiny price.

    Everything: Konphujun(#1458)
  • SLyMSLyM Registered User regular
    Paradox's release policy seems to breed equal parts customer loyalty and entitlement.

    My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
    ShadowhopeElvenshae
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular

    I've paid full price for everything.

    I've put in over 2,100 hours.

    I have no qualms about throwing money at Paradox.

    Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
    ElvenshaeBYToadyComradebot
  • Void SlayerVoid Slayer Very Suspicious Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    Are tribal landholders now locked to agnatic succession? Kinda feel :/ about that. Remember some games in which I enjoyed being a badass Viking queen.

    Elective Gavelkind. You and your vassals vote from your sons as the next ruler, then your lands are split up. I guess if you only have daughters you could elect one of them, haven't played with only daughters yet. I'll imprison and execute a few sons to test.

    I started a Northern Germanic game in Denmark at 867, had 8 holdings in my demesnes within 5 years. The funny thing about the new adviser actions that create troops is that it basically turns you into an adventurer.

    I haven't had a vassal refuse to join a war as long as they were in the green, this is actually better then raising their levies.

    As far as your Swedish game, you should look to get at least one dock to get 7 ships, you can hold 70 gold on that and go raid Ireland or France. If you are going to just attack for one province at a time, set your advisers to recruit troops and once recruited quickly declare war right when they are recruited, take down their forces then disband the event troops before the one year time limit.

    Ireland is weird, characters have claims against the kingdom title even when it doesn't exist.

    Void Slayer on
    He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
  • ComradebotComradebot Lord of Dinosaurs Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    Are tribal landholders now locked to agnatic succession? Kinda feel :/ about that. Remember some games in which I enjoyed being a badass Viking queen.

    Elective Gavelkind. You and your vassals vote from your sons as the next ruler, then your lands are split up. I guess if you only have daughters you could elect one of them, haven't played with only daughters yet. I'll imprison and execute a few sons to test.

    I started a Northern Germanic game in Denmark at 867, had 8 holdings in my demesnes within 5 years. The funny thing about the new adviser actions that create troops is that it basically turns you into an adventurer.

    I haven't had a vassal refuse to join a war as long as they were in the green, this is actually better then raising their levies.

    As far as your Swedish game, you should look to get at least one dock to get 7 ships, you can hold 70 gold on that and go raid Ireland or France. If you are going to just attack for one province at a time, set your advisers to recruit troops and once recruited quickly declare war right when they are recruited, take down their forces then disband the event troops before the one year time limit.

    Ireland is weird, characters have claims against the kingdom title even when it doesn't exist.

    If you only have daughters then you're SOL unless there's other male relatives about. Had four daughters born in a row earlier with my very first ruler, damn near gave me a stroke.


    Also, I went ahead and invaded the Muslims in Khiva. Failed miserably, the Emirate had another strong Emirate allied with em' and they were just a little more than I could handle on my own. Ended up pushing west instead after the Yagbuids split on succession, subjugating a lone duchy (Syr Darya I think is the name?). Gave me a lot more raiding targets though :biggrin:

    Thankfully, some Buddhists wiped the floor with both of them and left the Khivans wide open. Rebuilt my prestige with some good ol' raiding and invaded... only to watch my ruler finally kick the bucket of old age. Zhetysu and Syr Darya split between two of my sons mid invasion, but it didn't matter too much: all of my older brother's vassals in Syr Darya voted for me as his heir, and he was a massively unlikable guy.

    Was.

    Realm was re-united and soon the invasion was complete with the Bedouins of Khiva now under my Karluk bootheel. Now, I could have formed Turkestan at this point, but eh... who likes being a "stan"? Besides, they have that new custom kingdom option.

    And that's how I founded the Zhetysu Khanate (apparently it names it after your primary title... good to know). I've considered changing the name, but Zhetysu is alright for now. After all, there have been a lot of states in that region that were named after a single city/region/county.

  • EndaroEndaro Registered User regular
    Man, I wish I had paid better attention to the patch notes prior to the update, because it completely fucked my Byzantium Ironman game. When I last signed off I had just reformed the Roman Empire. When I got back on, I was at ~80 vassals with a limit of 33. I tried to make some Kingdom titles to reduce it, but I only had enough gold to make five, which did not make a significant impact. The huge vassal limit penalty crippled my economy and military. Where I previously has a combined strength of around 80K, far surpassing any rival empires including the Holy Roman Empire and the Golden Horde, the penalty gave me a -100% on vassal levies. Because of the retinue nerf, I was at twice the limit for them as well, meaning I had a sizable monthly cost at even the non-replenish setting. With the crippled economy, that meant my retinues just existing put me more in the red every month. The various Islamic entities took the opportunity to start a massive Jihad, and without any levies to fight it off, all I had to bring to the fight was a retinue I couldn't afford to keep. To top it all off, my Emperor kicked the bucket and the hugely overblown vassal limit caused everyone to just gain instant independence, losing all that I had achieved.

    In just a couple months of game time I lost dozens of real hours of progress, progress which can't be gotten back thanks to Ironman Mode. Frustrating to say the least. I think I'm going to retire this game for a bit.

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    That sucks, you could have continued playing the old version of the game - 2.1.6 is now also available in the Steam beta tab.

    Two notes on the cosmetic DLC: The "Early Western Clothing" DLC also includes special clothing for Saxon and Anglo-Saxon rulers, however it currently doesn't show up ingame because of an error in the definitions (they use the other clothes which come with the DLC). The "Early Eastern Clothing" DLC includes by default the Mediterranean portraits, so if you dislike those, you might want to consider modding the game if you would still like to use the new clothing.

    Here's a nice Saxon warrior!

    g5r359m3.jpg

    Platy on
    ElvenshaeAuralynxCommander Zoom
  • Emperor KermitEmperor Kermit Registered User regular
    Endaro wrote: »
    In just a couple months of game time I lost dozens of real hours of progress, progress which can't be gotten back thanks to Ironman Mode. Frustrating to say the least. I think I'm going to retire this game for a bit.
    Man, that sucks.

    But thank you for posting this, because I'm in the middle of an ERE Ironman game myself (trying to get "SPQR" and "Protector of the Holy Places", already got the achievement for reforming the Roman Empire). Will patch down to 2.1.6 before continuing that game so I don't experience the same.

  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    The new start date should make SPQR easier to get.

    Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    When starting a new game, the ERE will now by default use Imperial Administration (without any need to raise CA first) and will have kingdom and duchy viceroyalties enabled (which is potentially huge).

    One thing I found out about the Zunists is that they're considered an offensive pagan faith, with bonuses to their levy size and heavy infantry attack and defense. They also start as feudal and have access to ultimogeniture (according to the forums, this is intended). Three of the holy sites are in or near Afghanistan, one is in Baghdad and the other, funnily, in Egypt at Heliopolis.

    Kinda wish that Manichaeism was its own religion, now that there's a handful of Manichaean rulers and a large Manichaen area in the east of the map.

  • Emperor KermitEmperor Kermit Registered User regular
    Good to know. Though I think I'll wrap up my save with the old patch. The 867 start was already incredibly easy because the of no HRE and weak muslims.

  • DomhnallDomhnall Minty D. Vision! ScotlandRegistered User regular
    So, I had nigh on all of Scandanavia save for a couple Finnish provinces and the Atlantic islands with only the Kingdom of Sweden formed so that when gavelkind happened the realm wouldn't be split but once the old man died (75 and raiding all over the shop, poor Ragnar Lodbrok couldn't get a word in) it was split anyway into Finland and Denmark (with Norway splitting from Denmark after the Danish King died not much after). Just wondering if this is a new addition or if when you owned a de jure Kingdom before it would split when gavelkind happened?

    Certainly slowed down the creation of the Norse Empire since I've lost the subjugation casus belli after reforming the norse empire.

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  • BlindPsychicBlindPsychic Registered User regular
    If you're over your vassal limit and they don't like you it can cause the realm to fracture, so maybe that happened?

  • dasnoobdasnoob ArkansasRegistered User regular
    I'm guessing that answer to being over the vassal limit is to create titles immediately under you? i.e. if you are a King create Duke titles and hand them out along with the associated vassals tied to the title.

  • DomhnallDomhnall Minty D. Vision! ScotlandRegistered User regular
    Aye, I guess that was it, maybe? I was two over the limit (25/23) when my ruler died raiding the English coast due to not having the money to create a jarldom in southern Norway. It has led to some interesting gameplay between the three kingdoms though (with Finland kinda just..hanging out).

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  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    I feel like I shouldn't be surprised, but man, look at this.

    do9colpz.jpg

    I've also seen some rather spectacular AI blobbing in Russia and Scandinavia. Maybe Sigurd Ring's stats are just a bit too good. I hope the dynamics aren't going to be the same in every game, I like fighting against powerful realms but I also like there being Finns and East Africans and...

    Platy on
  • YogoYogo Registered User regular
    Domhnall wrote: »
    So, I had nigh on all of Scandanavia save for a couple Finnish provinces and the Atlantic islands with only the Kingdom of Sweden formed so that when gavelkind happened the realm wouldn't be split but once the old man died (75 and raiding all over the shop, poor Ragnar Lodbrok couldn't get a word in) it was split anyway into Finland and Denmark (with Norway splitting from Denmark after the Danish King died not much after). Just wondering if this is a new addition or if when you owned a de jure Kingdom before it would split when gavelkind happened?

    Certainly slowed down the creation of the Norse Empire since I've lost the subjugation casus belli after reforming the norse empire.

    Elective Gavelkind is different from normal Gavelkind.

    Under Elective Gavelkind, Junior heirs (not your main heir) has a chance of becoming independent upon receiving a crown title without starting a war.

    And before you ask, yes, it is meant to be this way as a method of curbing Tribal expansionism and forcing you to convert to feudalism or republicism. Potentially you could just stay Tribal, but at some point vassal limit would prevent you from maintaining the kingdom/empire.

    Look at Tribal as a quick way of establishing a dominion, then converting to feudalism or republicism.

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    Under the new mechanics, heirs will also receive kingdom titles upon succession which you haven't personally created. I think I read on the official forums that the impact of this particular feature is still being discussed, though, It's certainly not laid out well enouh in the tooltips.

    Platy on
  • YogoYogo Registered User regular
    edited October 2014
    Under the new mechanics, heirs will also receive kingdom titles upon succession which you haven't personally created. I think I read on the official forums that the impact of this particular feature is still being discussed, though, It's certainly not laid out well enouh in the tooltips.

    Interesting. I guess Paradox, at the moment, doesn't want an alternative "Dark Age" to happen with Tribalism just conquering the shit out of the civilized nations.

    Personally, I would love a mod where you could convert feudal castles into Tribal Holdings.

    Yogo on
  • SLyMSLyM Registered User regular
    Western Africa north of Mali/Songhai is an absolute clusterfuck of religions at the new start and it's really funny. I tried playing as the visigothic Sunni guy and it went okay until I had 3 holy wars declared on me at once and the umayyads didn't help

    My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
  • ComradebotComradebot Lord of Dinosaurs Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    Endaro wrote: »
    Man, I wish I had paid better attention to the patch notes prior to the update, because it completely fucked my Byzantium Ironman game. When I last signed off I had just reformed the Roman Empire. When I got back on, I was at ~80 vassals with a limit of 33. I tried to make some Kingdom titles to reduce it, but I only had enough gold to make five, which did not make a significant impact. The huge vassal limit penalty crippled my economy and military. Where I previously has a combined strength of around 80K, far surpassing any rival empires including the Holy Roman Empire and the Golden Horde, the penalty gave me a -100% on vassal levies. Because of the retinue nerf, I was at twice the limit for them as well, meaning I had a sizable monthly cost at even the non-replenish setting. With the crippled economy, that meant my retinues just existing put me more in the red every month. The various Islamic entities took the opportunity to start a massive Jihad, and without any levies to fight it off, all I had to bring to the fight was a retinue I couldn't afford to keep. To top it all off, my Emperor kicked the bucket and the hugely overblown vassal limit caused everyone to just gain instant independence, losing all that I had achieved.

    In just a couple months of game time I lost dozens of real hours of progress, progress which can't be gotten back thanks to Ironman Mode. Frustrating to say the least. I think I'm going to retire this game for a bit.

    Aye, when a new (major) patch hits you need to do one of two things:

    1. Revert to the previous patch
    2. Start a new game

    Sometimes you can get lucky, but most experiences I've had are similar to yours when attempting to continue an older save.

  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    Yogo wrote: »
    Under the new mechanics, heirs will also receive kingdom titles upon succession which you haven't personally created. I think I read on the official forums that the impact of this particular feature is still being discussed, though, It's certainly not laid out well enouh in the tooltips.

    Interesting. I guess Paradox, at the moment, doesn't want an alternative "Dark Age" to happen with Tribalism just conquering the shit out of the civilized nations.

    Personally, I would love a mod where you could convert feudal castles into Tribal Holdings.

    How would that even work?

    You just knock down people's houses and tell them to go live in the woods and that works?

    I think it would result in a population reduction, no new holding, and now no castle either.

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