I love dragons dogma. But why is this franchise acting like it’s done massive hit when it’s really just some underated gem most people missed?
It's surpassed 1 million sales which isn't a megahit but also isn't a tiny number either. It also performed better in its PC release than the vast majority of other Capcom games up to that point.
I think it was not just the sales numbers, but the profits. Judging by Capcom's reaction they weren't expecting numbers that big, which means they probably didn't spend much to make it, which means if it did that well it was probably pretty profitable. So why not keep the same budget and make a sequel? Because Capcom I guess.
Gamertag: KL Retribution
PSN:Furlion
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Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
Having now watched every episode of the anime, I am sad to report that Caxton (or even anyone resembling him) does not appear to be in it.
No "Masterworks all!" references! I am thoroughly disappointed, Netflix. Not even a "Wolves hunt in packs!" when they show up in the first episode.
Also the anime was very mediocre overall, animation and plot wise (they leaned too hard into the whole 'seven deadly sins' conceit), and the ending was just very... Meh.
The Arisen eats the Dragon's heart and ends up cursed, turning into a mindless Dragon themselves. The whole plot line with the Seneschal is never mentioned at all.
Their sole pawn is left to wander the world, defending it from the now transformed Arisen.
Having now watched every episode of the anime, I am sad to report that Caxton (or even anyone resembling him) does not appear to be in it.
No "Masterworks all!" references! I am thoroughly disappointed, Netflix. Not even a "Wolves hunt in packs!" when they show up in the first episode.
Also the anime was very mediocre overall, animation and plot wise (they leaned too hard into the whole 'seven deadly sins' conceit), and the ending was just very... Meh.
The Arisen eats the Dragon's heart and ends up cursed, turning into a mindless Dragon themselves. The whole plot line with the Seneschal is never mentioned at all.
Their sole pawn is left to wander the world, defending it from the now transformed Arisen.
Laaaaaaame. Seneschal is the best part of the story.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I had to stop watching the anime 10 minutes into the first episode because everything about it screamed waste of time. Voice acting was terrible, switched over to Japanese and that was a bit better, but the animation is like some sub-par version of the recent Castlevania. Not Seven Deadly Sins season 3 bad, but bad enough to not keep watching.
Which is all disappointing because I enjoyed the game and typically Netflix originals, but they have certainly been going downhill in quality recently.
Certainly some will find plenty of objectionable content in the Anime, but overall it fails to tell a story. Certainly there is a plot, but in order for it to have a story it needs to say something about the world or our human experience, and it never contextualizes its plot in a way to do so. Pick your favorite format (I’ll use Dan Harmon’s in this example) the hero goes on the journey and completes the quest... and then it ends (with a twist). That’s it. The story doesn’t have anything to say beyond “don’t do evil things” and even that theme is undercut by the antagonist affirming that “sometimes shit’s just evil because it’s nature is to be evil.” There’s no real exploration of the origin of sin or commentary on man’s struggle against it. The hero doesn’t have an arc: he wants to slay the dragon, but he also needs to slay the dragon. His personality devolves, and that could make for a tragic character arc, but he never is presented with the opportunity for growth, and we’re never given a reason to root for him to do so.
Certainly some will find plenty of objectionable content in the Anime, but overall it fails to tell a story. Certainly there is a plot, but in order for it to have a story it needs to say something about the world or our human experience, and it never contextualizes its plot in a way to do so. Pick your favorite format (I’ll use Dan Harmon’s in this example) the hero goes on the journey and completes the quest... and then it ends (with a twist). That’s it. The story doesn’t have anything to say beyond “don’t do evil things” and even that theme is undercut by the antagonist affirming that “sometimes shit’s just evil because it’s nature is to be evil.” There’s no real exploration of the origin of sin or commentary on man’s struggle against it. The hero doesn’t have an arc: he wants to slay the dragon, but he also needs to slay the dragon. His personality devolves, and that could make for a tragic character arc, but he never is presented with the opportunity for growth, and we’re never given a reason to root for him to do so.
It’s just bad writing all around.
I think one of the issues is that the "plot" of the game and the story structure itself is pretty dang weird.
You start with the Dragon at the start, only for him to completely fuck off for 95% of the game. Said 95% is spend around Gran Soren, the Duke, Salvation, the political intrigue regarding it all, and so on. Then the Dragon suddenly shows up at the 11th hour, and absolutely nothing regarding Gran Soren has any bearing on the plot from then on. It's completely the Dragon and the Seneschal show from then on all the way to the end. They even lampshade it, as the Dragon says "Their kind have no role to play in what is to come".
I'm just not sure how you make a series out of that. Shit, I'm not sure how the game even pulls it off after writing all that. As much as I totally adore the plot, trying to look at it objectively shows how damn weird it is.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Personally I don't think the game does pull it off.
I love it, but it having a compelling story is not one of the reasons why. Almost the opposite really, in that the story is boring for most of it then batshit out of nowhere and barely any of it makes sense.
Aistan on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Certainly some will find plenty of objectionable content in the Anime, but overall it fails to tell a story. Certainly there is a plot, but in order for it to have a story it needs to say something about the world or our human experience, and it never contextualizes its plot in a way to do so. Pick your favorite format (I’ll use Dan Harmon’s in this example) the hero goes on the journey and completes the quest... and then it ends (with a twist). That’s it. The story doesn’t have anything to say beyond “don’t do evil things” and even that theme is undercut by the antagonist affirming that “sometimes shit’s just evil because it’s nature is to be evil.” There’s no real exploration of the origin of sin or commentary on man’s struggle against it. The hero doesn’t have an arc: he wants to slay the dragon, but he also needs to slay the dragon. His personality devolves, and that could make for a tragic character arc, but he never is presented with the opportunity for growth, and we’re never given a reason to root for him to do so.
It’s just bad writing all around.
I think one of the issues is that the "plot" of the game and the story structure itself is pretty dang weird.
You start with the Dragon at the start, only for him to completely fuck off for 95% of the game. Said 95% is spend around Gran Soren, the Duke, Salvation, the political intrigue regarding it all, and so on. Then the Dragon suddenly shows up at the 11th hour, and absolutely nothing regarding Gran Soren has any bearing on the plot from then on. It's completely the Dragon and the Seneschal show from then on all the way to the end. They even lampshade it, as the Dragon says "Their kind have no role to play in what is to come".
I'm just not sure how you make a series out of that. Shit, I'm not sure how the game even pulls it off after writing all that. As much as I totally adore the plot, trying to look at it objectively shows how damn weird it is.
I agree with all this. But at the same time one of the jobs of an adapter is to improve on things if necessary so that your adaption is a coherent and hopefully quality new form of whatever media you are making. If its a movie you change stuff so its a good movie, a manga, a comic book, a novel, or in this case, a tv series.
This doesn't sound like a very good adaption.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Certainly some will find plenty of objectionable content in the Anime, but overall it fails to tell a story. Certainly there is a plot, but in order for it to have a story it needs to say something about the world or our human experience, and it never contextualizes its plot in a way to do so. Pick your favorite format (I’ll use Dan Harmon’s in this example) the hero goes on the journey and completes the quest... and then it ends (with a twist). That’s it. The story doesn’t have anything to say beyond “don’t do evil things” and even that theme is undercut by the antagonist affirming that “sometimes shit’s just evil because it’s nature is to be evil.” There’s no real exploration of the origin of sin or commentary on man’s struggle against it. The hero doesn’t have an arc: he wants to slay the dragon, but he also needs to slay the dragon. His personality devolves, and that could make for a tragic character arc, but he never is presented with the opportunity for growth, and we’re never given a reason to root for him to do so.
It’s just bad writing all around.
I think one of the issues is that the "plot" of the game and the story structure itself is pretty dang weird.
You start with the Dragon at the start, only for him to completely fuck off for 95% of the game. Said 95% is spend around Gran Soren, the Duke, Salvation, the political intrigue regarding it all, and so on. Then the Dragon suddenly shows up at the 11th hour, and absolutely nothing regarding Gran Soren has any bearing on the plot from then on. It's completely the Dragon and the Seneschal show from then on all the way to the end. They even lampshade it, as the Dragon says "Their kind have no role to play in what is to come".
I'm just not sure how you make a series out of that. Shit, I'm not sure how the game even pulls it off after writing all that. As much as I totally adore the plot, trying to look at it objectively shows how damn weird it is.
I agree with all this. But at the same time one of the jobs of an adapter is to improve on things if necessary so that your adaption is a coherent and hopefully quality new form of whatever media you are making. If its a movie you change stuff so its a good movie, a manga, a comic book, a novel, or in this case, a tv series.
This doesn't sound like a very good adaption.
I’d agree 10x if I could. The game itself is incredible fun to play, and the revelations in the post game were shocking, but I agree it’s difficult to parse a story from what’s shown in game. It’s tough to even codify the themes of the game: is it that people (with the exception of the PC) lack free will because the universe is deterministic? That’s low-hanging fruit in a single player RPG. Does the Dragon-Arisen-seneschel conflict represent the world as a sort of crucible for man’s will and eventual apotheosis? I think that’s a good reading but it’s underdeveloped as a central theme.
I’ve poured a lot of time in this game because it’s incredibly fun to play but it’s story reads as an afterthought. Just goes to show how difficult writing is.
i binged the whole thing and the two things that kept me going were the characterization of the pawn
which went nowhere
and that i could swear they actually got a bunch of nobody voice actors from the games to do parts and that tickled me
it was hard to tell if the show was explicitly misogynistic or just misanthropic in general (the latter being something i don't find inherently a problem but the show contorted itself into knots trying to get the Most Misanthropic Outcome to the point of parody)
the animation is unforgiveably bad, and almost every cool setpiece from the games was removed aside from
the confrontation with grigori, and it literally would have been 100% improved by splicing in actual game footage
. what little bit of a point the show may have been trying to make got mangled by the rushed pacing and short run.
my expectations weren't super high but i'm real sad at how much of a mess it was anyway
I think the Game goes for a more Buddhist take mixed with some meta commentary on the archetypical Hero's Journey.
Game is more about the heroic performance than analysis.
Edit: but i didnt watch the anime tho
I considered the Buddhist angle but ultimately rejected it. There’s nothing in the text or subtext about spiritual betterment or enlightenment, nor any kind of karma or rebirth mechanisms. I think you could make one argument based on the ending but...
Your pawn becoming you only happens after you achieve apotheosis yourself: thus their rebirth as you doesn’t really fit into the Buddhist ideology. Moreover one interpretation of the ending is that the cycle itself is broken.
Regardless I think any these themes are just not present or developed enough. By contrast Dark Soul’s themes of the inevitability of entropy permeates every aspect of the game.
Personally I don't think the game does pull it off.
I love it, but it having a compelling story is not one of the reasons why. Almost the opposite really, in that the story is boring for most of it then batshit out of nowhere and barely any of it makes sense.
So typical Japanese game story bullshit then
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
I just hit things with arc of deliverance.
A lot.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
The game is great because I can drop gigantic meteors from the sky and impale enemies on ice spikes the size of football fields.
The story is complete nonsense and I'm baffled that someone thought it would make a good netflix show.
Mother’s Basement covered the Anime with more depth than I did. It’s still bad, but long form video essays are the fuel by which I get my housework done.
Oh, also if you play on Steam there is naturally a thriving modding community. This video I found showcases a mod to change the warrior class into basically Guts. I’m almost tempted to buy this a fourth time just to experience it.
Why? I mean I used AoD to stun lock dragons and occasionally destroy some more common enemy for the luls, but I didn’t find the charge mechanic fun or interesting.
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
I knew exactly why you'd not want to replace Arc.
But you've been using that setup for years, no harm in trying something new. I'm sure you'll find equally great ways ways to kill your foes with the fan mod.
And more fun ways, because my god arc is boring. I mean, getting the kill with it is super satisfying, but I still hate using it =p.
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited October 2020
I've never found it boring.
I like strategy and tactics games as well as action games. The charge is the setup, taught with the thrill of anticipation, and the tension from possibly being interrupted. The release is satisfaction of a plan well executed. And then everything explodes.
Also I'm not sure why they want to put I-frames on everything. Warrior has a completely acceptable i-frame attack. It has a long window.
I'd have played it if they hadn't touched Arc. A shame really. But I am an old Warrior and set in my ways.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Why? I mean I used AoD to stun lock dragons and occasionally destroy some more common enemy for the luls, but I didn’t find the charge mechanic fun or interesting.
So you hated Sorcerer and the ginormous spells they had?
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Why? I mean I used AoD to stun lock dragons and occasionally destroy some more common enemy for the luls, but I didn’t find the charge mechanic fun or interesting.
So you hated Sorcerer and the ginormous spells they had?
Yeah, “hate” is a strong term but I didn’t find Sorcerer anywhere close to as fun as the fighter or striker classes. I’m a big fan of counter moves in games so my ranking is:
1. Assassin
2. Fighter
3. Magic Knight
4. Warrior
5. Strider/Ranger
6. Everything else
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited October 2020
I liked Sorc with several other pawn sorcs all copying your spells.
I once cast a triple high bolide on a wyvern. You know the dragons with the weak point on the top?
Cos of a combination of geography and I dunno, the game just going weird, all the meteors decided to queue up. On one spot. The Wyvern.
I just stood there and watched a wyvern get beaten to death by god for about thirty seconds.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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fRAWRstThe Seas CallThe Mad AnswerRegistered Userregular
AoD lovers and great sword monster hunter players
never a more kindred spirit
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
I actually used Magic Archer for a lot of Dark Arisen. It was absurdly op. And my build couldn't even use its magic all that well since I'd been a Warrior so much.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
I also love warriors. I love the idea of swinging a fuck-you enormous greatsword around. I am the goober trying to AoD everything, and the one futilely jump slashing a gorecyclops's buttcrack. And I can not and will not deny that it is the lowest man on the totem pole, the class that drew the shortest of the short sticks.
Being a warrior is a lifestyle choice. It is a life of looking fucking awesome, but it's also a life of endless pain and suffering.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
So I've never played this game before but I own it on steam. Are there any good mods I want to look at, especially graphical ones? Haven't read through the thread for fear of spoilers, so apologies if this has been asked before.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
I have never felt like Warrior is not strong and I just look kinda baffled at people who suggest that in seriousness.
Lad, my warrior is not weak. I have played every class. All of them. Every single one. For many hours. I know what they all can do.
My warrior is not weak.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I’m just playing. If you love Warrior’s play style I’m not here to tuck your yum. I think it’s less fun because I prefer more reactive play styles and more options. When I asked what you found fun about AoD it wasn’t an indictment: I was just curious as to the appeal because I didn’t find it to be a definitive experience.
So I've never played this game before but I own it on steam. Are there any good mods I want to look at, especially graphical ones? Haven't read through the thread for fear of spoilers, so apologies if this has been asked before.
I actually don’t have this game on PC... but This guy shows off a few graphics mods:
As someone who really really cares about spoilers... I wouldn't worry about them for this game. You aren't going to be playing through this game for the story
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I think it was not just the sales numbers, but the profits. Judging by Capcom's reaction they weren't expecting numbers that big, which means they probably didn't spend much to make it, which means if it did that well it was probably pretty profitable. So why not keep the same budget and make a sequel? Because Capcom I guess.
PSN:Furlion
No "Masterworks all!" references! I am thoroughly disappointed, Netflix. Not even a "Wolves hunt in packs!" when they show up in the first episode.
Also the anime was very mediocre overall, animation and plot wise (they leaned too hard into the whole 'seven deadly sins' conceit), and the ending was just very... Meh.
Their sole pawn is left to wander the world, defending it from the now transformed Arisen.
Which is all disappointing because I enjoyed the game and typically Netflix originals, but they have certainly been going downhill in quality recently.
It’s just bad writing all around.
I think one of the issues is that the "plot" of the game and the story structure itself is pretty dang weird.
I'm just not sure how you make a series out of that. Shit, I'm not sure how the game even pulls it off after writing all that. As much as I totally adore the plot, trying to look at it objectively shows how damn weird it is.
I love it, but it having a compelling story is not one of the reasons why. Almost the opposite really, in that the story is boring for most of it then batshit out of nowhere and barely any of it makes sense.
I agree with all this. But at the same time one of the jobs of an adapter is to improve on things if necessary so that your adaption is a coherent and hopefully quality new form of whatever media you are making. If its a movie you change stuff so its a good movie, a manga, a comic book, a novel, or in this case, a tv series.
This doesn't sound like a very good adaption.
I’d agree 10x if I could. The game itself is incredible fun to play, and the revelations in the post game were shocking, but I agree it’s difficult to parse a story from what’s shown in game. It’s tough to even codify the themes of the game: is it that people (with the exception of the PC) lack free will because the universe is deterministic? That’s low-hanging fruit in a single player RPG. Does the Dragon-Arisen-seneschel conflict represent the world as a sort of crucible for man’s will and eventual apotheosis? I think that’s a good reading but it’s underdeveloped as a central theme.
I’ve poured a lot of time in this game because it’s incredibly fun to play but it’s story reads as an afterthought. Just goes to show how difficult writing is.
Game is more about the heroic performance than analysis.
Edit: but i didnt watch the anime tho
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
i binged the whole thing and the two things that kept me going were the characterization of the pawn
it was hard to tell if the show was explicitly misogynistic or just misanthropic in general (the latter being something i don't find inherently a problem but the show contorted itself into knots trying to get the Most Misanthropic Outcome to the point of parody)
the animation is unforgiveably bad, and almost every cool setpiece from the games was removed aside from
my expectations weren't super high but i'm real sad at how much of a mess it was anyway
I considered the Buddhist angle but ultimately rejected it. There’s nothing in the text or subtext about spiritual betterment or enlightenment, nor any kind of karma or rebirth mechanisms. I think you could make one argument based on the ending but...
Regardless I think any these themes are just not present or developed enough. By contrast Dark Soul’s themes of the inevitability of entropy permeates every aspect of the game.
So typical Japanese game story bullshit then
A lot.
The story is complete nonsense and I'm baffled that someone thought it would make a good netflix show.
And one single pawn? Unforgiveable.
PSN: Dyvion -- Eternal: Dyvion+9393 -- Genshin Impact: Dyvion
Arc of deliverance change is a big fat nope.
Like hard nope.
If that video was a room I'd walk out of it after watching.
That kind of nope.
I lived for this ability.
Warriors are an arc of deliverance delivery device. I won't be convinced otherwise.
It'd be easier to convince the Pope that God isn't real.
But you've been using that setup for years, no harm in trying something new. I'm sure you'll find equally great ways ways to kill your foes with the fan mod.
And more fun ways, because my god arc is boring. I mean, getting the kill with it is super satisfying, but I still hate using it =p.
I like strategy and tactics games as well as action games. The charge is the setup, taught with the thrill of anticipation, and the tension from possibly being interrupted. The release is satisfaction of a plan well executed. And then everything explodes.
Also I'm not sure why they want to put I-frames on everything. Warrior has a completely acceptable i-frame attack. It has a long window.
I'd have played it if they hadn't touched Arc. A shame really. But I am an old Warrior and set in my ways.
So you hated Sorcerer and the ginormous spells they had?
Yeah, “hate” is a strong term but I didn’t find Sorcerer anywhere close to as fun as the fighter or striker classes. I’m a big fan of counter moves in games so my ranking is:
1. Assassin
2. Fighter
3. Magic Knight
4. Warrior
5. Strider/Ranger
6. Everything else
I once cast a triple high bolide on a wyvern. You know the dragons with the weak point on the top?
Cos of a combination of geography and I dunno, the game just going weird, all the meteors decided to queue up. On one spot. The Wyvern.
I just stood there and watched a wyvern get beaten to death by god for about thirty seconds.
never a more kindred spirit
I actually used Magic Archer for a lot of Dark Arisen. It was absurdly op. And my build couldn't even use its magic all that well since I'd been a Warrior so much.
Magic Archer is built for that place.
Being a warrior is a lifestyle choice. It is a life of looking fucking awesome, but it's also a life of endless pain and suffering.
Lad, my warrior is not weak. I have played every class. All of them. Every single one. For many hours. I know what they all can do.
My warrior is not weak.
I actually don’t have this game on PC... but This guy shows off a few graphics mods:
I didn’t see any real spoilers in the video but there are some mid-game enemies and environments.
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