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[Malifaux]2 Ed- Ripples of Fate! Victorian Horror skirmishgame

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Posts

  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Might get the two Plastcraft crate sets to add to it. They're bigger and offer higher terrain to block the walkway vantage points.

  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    I really don't understand the pricing of this new game. 6 fairly standard looking cavalry models for $60 is absurdly high.

  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing to Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    They take up a bigger chunk of the army cost.

    Models are grouped into groups of threes (a fireteam) which then group into squads (1-3 fireteams). A squad moves all of its fireteams in a single activation.

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Six cavalry for $60 seems pretty normal to me in modern minis gaming. What's making you say it's absurdly high?

  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    admanb wrote: »
    Six cavalry for $60 seems pretty normal to me in modern minis gaming. What's making you say it's absurdly high?

    The reasoning I've seen around people saying the cost is high is they're PVC. If CMON can give out buckets of PVC models for free, Wyrd should too.

    Honestly I'm not too put off by the cost. They're saying a standard game is about 45 models and 2 Commanders. Considering an Allegiance set gives you 1 Commander and 3 squads of 9, they're giving you half an army for a small outlay ($125us including tape measure, fate deck, hardcover rulebook and tokens). The prices are going to be higher simply because they're not expecting to sell as many. This isn't 40k or 8th edition Fantast where you need to buy a squad box 3-4 times. I'd be shocked if outside of the 'common' infantry you get 2 sets of in an Allegiance box that you'd ever want more than 1 of a squad.

    Kickstarter unlocks the second commanders per Allegiance at 225k. The nice part is Commander and up backers get them free.

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    -Loki- on
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    Six cavalry for $60 seems pretty normal to me in modern minis gaming. What's making you say it's absurdly high?

    They're quite a bit more expensive than a lot of alternatives, e.g.;
    Having a higher price point than Fireforge or Perry Miniatures is no big deal, but when GW has cheaper offerings it makes me raise my eyebrow a bit.

  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing to Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    Oooo I like that Abysinnia model with the jetpack.

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    admanb wrote: »
    Six cavalry for $60 seems pretty normal to me in modern minis gaming. What's making you say it's absurdly high?

    They're quite a bit more expensive than a lot of alternatives, e.g.;
    Having a higher price point than Fireforge or Perry Miniatures is no big deal, but when GW has cheaper offerings it makes me raise my eyebrow a bit.

    Normally I would agree with you, but those GW prices are grandfathered in. The LOTR stuff is basically cleaning out their garbage and the Chaos Knights are a very old kit that just has the same price it had when it came out.

  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    admanb wrote: »
    Six cavalry for $60 seems pretty normal to me in modern minis gaming. What's making you say it's absurdly high?

    They're quite a bit more expensive than a lot of alternatives, e.g.;
    Having a higher price point than Fireforge or Perry Miniatures is no big deal, but when GW has cheaper offerings it makes me raise my eyebrow a bit.

    Well you also have GW's Blood Knights

    which are $99 for 5

    And as cheap as Mantics stuff is, I generally don't like any of it.

    PSN Fleety2009
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    They're showing the cards for what's unlocked so far.

    Gibbering Hordes
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    Striped_Skulkers.jpg
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    Kings Empire
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    Abyssinia
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    Cult of the Burning Man
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    I really like what they're doing with Gibbering Hordes. First up, they're a horde army that plays with roughly the same amount of models as the opponent. Hurray painting queue! Their hordeishness comes from being able to respawn squads (not champions, which are single model units like the Stormsiren commander). Then you have the Striped Skulkers that, when deployed or summoned, can be deployed anywhere except the opponents deployment zone. They also get bonuses when attacking while in terrain, which their allegiance card lets them deploy 2 120mm terrain markers. The Stormsiren commander lets them deploy more. So there's some inter unit synergy going on with the game, which is fun.

    The Glory mechanic is interesting. Essentially some units have a 2 sided card, the other side is like a boosted up version of the front. Every factions Allegiance card tells you how to go into Glory. Gibbering Hordes you sacrifice a fireteam base from a nearby unit (representing the survival of the fittest aspect of a bunch of alpha predators). Kings Empire does it by wiping out a Fireteam base (representing their reliance on their guns). Cult of the Burning Man discard Shaken tokens (because they're all nuts). Abyssinia by discarding Control cards. Not entirely sure what that represents. Now that I think about it more, the Glory mechanic feels like a streamlined (and significantly less powerful) Avatar mechanic.

    -Loki- on
    No-Quarter
  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing to Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    Ooooo I really am liking the Cult of the Burning Man

    ForceVoid
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    Titan cards are up. Gibbering Hordes Titan sounds a bit more resiliant than the others, given that it can use Reinforcment tokens to negate wounds to represent the Skulkers riding it into battle being blown off. That's pretty fucking awesome. However, the Goryshche wins in being downright fucking badass looking. Looks to be the least resiliant of them with Armour 7, but the ability to add a Head Asset by discarding a card makes me think it's deceptively tough. Looks like they've altered the pose for the Kings Hand so it's aiming it's gun down, which makes a whole lot more sense than firing it straight forward at chest height like the test model they've been showing. There's not much other than Titans that are chest height with it, but hosing infantry with its gun makes more sense.

    They said in the comments section that Titans have no restrictions. I wonder if anything does aside from Commanders. However, they said testers have reported successfully playing with one Titan, multiple Titans, only Titans and no Titans at all, so I'm guessing its been a big point of contention with the testers to make sure they aren't unbalanced.

    I'll say this, I'm pretty excited to try the game. I know I won't get my stuff until at best next December, but this is a game I'm really eager to give a go to. Luckily Commander level and up backers are all automatically entered in the open beta, so I'll be able to. I'll have to dust off some Tyranids.

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    -Loki- on
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Alternate Lazarus. They said they'd talk about how to acquire it at a later date. My money is on the guilder store.

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    No-Quarter
  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing to Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    Having become more familiar with the rules and the units, I can say to @Burnage that the cost of the models is a pretty acceptable scale to the size of a game.

    All the revealed Commanders have 25 "points" to make an Army from, and the units revealed so far have costs of 8-9 for a 9 models unit made up of 3 fireteams of 3 models. Moreover since fireteams in a unit can be "healed" and have the models restored to them, the models you own have greater value in and of themselves.

  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    Yeah, the 'Allegiance' boxes are full 1 Commander armies. Not in a 'Malifaux starter crews are a full crew' way where to make 50ss you need a few more purchases. Every Allegiance box has roughly 20 points worth of models (GH - 20, Cult - 21, Aby - 21, Empire - 23), then consider the commander has 'Assets' which are upgrades which can also be 'damaged' to shunt wounds to. These cost points. So an Allegiance box is the full allotment of points for that Commander. Additionally, they're units that synergise well with that Commander, like a Malifaux crew.

    So consider that a squad takes up that much of a Commanders company, you're not going to be buying many squads. Even if you wanted to try out Empire Dragoons, which are pricey for Cavalry, chances are you're only ever going to buy one box. Dragoons, at 8pts, are almost half of what you'd likely take after buying Commander Assets. And that's assuming all Commanders have the same amount of points to spend. I'm thinking there's probably powerful Commanders that can take less. Remember that TOS uses alternating activations like Malifaux, and amount of models is going to be come important. If you can out activate your opponent, you can strike without retaliation.

    -Loki- on
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Having become more familiar with the rules and the units, I can say to @Burnage that the cost of the models is a pretty acceptable scale to the size of a game.

    All the revealed Commanders have 25 "points" to make an Army from, and the units revealed so far have costs of 8-9 for a 9 models unit made up of 3 fireteams of 3 models. Moreover since fireteams in a unit can be "healed" and have the models restored to them, the models you own have greater value in and of themselves.

    Yeah, I don't think it had really clicked for me that a single allegiance box is pretty much a full one Commander force. The prices still seem on the higher end of the spectrum to me but they're certainly not outrageous.

  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing to Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    We'll see what my job and financial situation are at the end of the kickstarter. Good motivation.

    That said, Burning Man all the way. Both their signature squads looks terrific and horrifying, and every model in both squads are unique. I'd just grumble about having the build the standard portals. Bah.

    BurnageForceVoid
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    The Goryschche also seems to have the dual honours of the most interesting mechanical implementation of hydra-like regeneration and the worst name.

    Echo
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    Are there any KS exclusives yet or is it all (so far) stuff you can get in retail later?

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    Are there any KS exclusives yet or is it all (so far) stuff you can get in retail later?

    Kind of mixed messages. So far no miniatures have been kickstarter exclusive, and at the start of the campaign they said there there won't be. But recently Lindsey, one of their staff, said he heard they would in a stretch goal, but we haven't seen anything announced yet. However, they've said they will not be offering limited Malifaux models, either existing or new, through this kickstarter.

    However, all backers get foil unit cards for the units they get through the kickstarter, which won't be available anywhere else, and a special fate deck. Not sure if the fate deck will be released later though, they haven't said.

  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    They've put the stretch goals up to 500k. There's some more freebie models in there. If they all unlock the Commander level gets enough for a full 2 commander game.

    Freebie stretch goals are:
    225k - Second commander for free
    250k - Tokens and an app for free. Apparently the standard tokens are punchboard, they're looking at doing acrylic tokens for backers. I'm guessing the app is an army builder/game tracker app.
    325k - Adjunct models. Apparently these are mission objective type things.
    375k - Free unit. Empire - Field Intel. Cult - Doomseekers. Hordes - Armoured Whelks. Abysinnia - Basotho Cavalry.
    450k - Faction specific Champion.
    500k - Special edition Thrace model (the one here chopping a Skulkers head off) and Bihn Nguyen, a member of the 'Court of Two'. This last reward seems to go against what they said about special models. I'm guessing Thrace will be a kickstarter model, though it could be a tournament prize as well. The Court of Two, however, is part of Malifaux fluff currently, mentioned a few times in Ripples of Fate. And I'm pretty sure they're the two that created the Crossroads Seven, as all seven of them say they saw a man and woman in the crowd in black and red. Though they could be crossover characters.

    -Loki- on
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    Concept art images are up for the next strech goals. If the kickstarter gets there I'll absolutely be adding Horomatangi (the huge dual commander) and the Devouring Eel, mostly because big models seem to be rather pricey and Wyrd are giving a pretty good discount here. At least I won't have to guess what the prices will be in Australia.

    Second Commanders - 225k (add on, free for Commander and up pledges)
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    Dual Faction Commanders - 250k (add ons - yes, the Cult and Hordes faction commander is also a Titan)
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    Abysinnia and Hordes squads - 275k (add ons)
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    Empire and Cult new squads - 350k
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    Adjuncts - 325k (add on, free for Commander pledges and up - they sound like they're 'squad leader' type upgrades)
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    Squads for all factions - 375k (add ons, free for Commander and up pledges)
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    Abyssinia and Hordes squads - 400k (add ons)
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    Cult and Empire squads - 425k (add ons)
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    Champions - 450k (add ons, free for Commander and up pledges)
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    Large Champions - 475k (add ons)
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    -Loki- on
    ForceVoidNo-Quarter
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Some of that concept art is ridiculous in the best possible way.

    Arsonist grandma? Sure, why the fuck not.

    Machine gun on a penny farthing? Do it.

    Godzilla? Throw him in.

  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    It's kind of how they design Malifaux units. Devil babies with punch daggers? Yeah. Inigo Montoya? You got it. Spider in a dress? Sounds great. Huge man eating Teddy bear? Go for it.

    It's what I love about Wyrds stuff. It's just weird as shit and all works in the context of the universe they created.

    No-Quarter
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    It's kind of how they design Malifaux units. Devil babies with punch daggers? Yeah. Inigo Montoya? You got it. Spider in a dress? Sounds great. Huge man eating Teddy bear? Go for it.

    It's what I love about Wyrds stuff. It's just weird as shit and all works in the context of the universe they created.

    Yeah, I'm glad they've retained that sense of humour for this game. It actually reminds me a lot of the 80s and 90s era Games Workshop and was a big part of what attracted me to Malifaux in the first place.

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Pretty fond of the Abyssina aesthetic. If it gets near those higher stretch goals that Commander level will start to look reeeeeaaal tempting.

    Echo
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    At 450k Commander level gets you a full 2 commander list, probably a bit more which is pretty good, something like $400us value for $160us. After that it looks like you'll only be missing 5 purchases from the full range - the three squads, large champion and dual faction commander.

    -Loki- on
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Renders for everything are on Wyrds website (oddly, not their kickstarter page which they really should do).

    Gibbering Hordes
    Kings Empire
    Abyssinia
    Cult of the Burning Man

  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    Hurrah! Malifaux thread is back for me to say Holy Shit the January errata has certainly rewarded me for my faith in Lucius. Nice buffs to The Scribe as well.

    Jam Warrior on
    TingleSigBar.gif
    No-QuarterNisiBurnage
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    The January errate is very nice. This sort of thing was being held back by Jusin Gibbs, who didn't like errataing models to the point new cards were needed, so he only did it for models that direly needed nerfing because they were breaking the game, but didn't make any real 'quality of life' type adjustments or buffs to underperforming models. Aaron Darland has taken over as lead designer for Malifaux and takes a more holistic view of balance.

    For the nerfs, some of them were a long time coming. Not game breaking, but pretty unpleasant. Changing Daydreams Lucid Dreaming to only give a Mask to the next cast ruffled some feathers in the Neverborn community, but The Dreamer was, and still is, the most efficient summoner in the game with the strongest pool of models. His only resource needed is Masks, so they just made that a bit harder to get. Rooster Riders losing Reckless, well, I don't know how they got out of testing with Reckless. They were absurdly good. Now they're just good. People have griped about Rotten Belles Ca 8 (!!!) Lure since I got into the game halfway into M2E's launch year. They also had one of the highest Wounds to SS ratios in the game (wounds tends to be the SS cost, usually plus or minus one unless they're Incorporeal), they had SS cost plus three. Justin long griped about giving them these and knew they were a problem, but they weren't game breaking so he didn't fix them.

    For the buffs, some are very welcome. Indeed, the Lucius buffs have a lot of people talking about him again in a more positive light. People are liking the change to Misaki, which makes a build other than Stalking Bisento more appealing. Nothing Beast becoming a henchman I thought odd because I thought it was a henchman, but still. I've got a friend getting into Outcasts who likes that change. Personally I'm really happy with Montressors change and can't wait to get Jack Daw on the table now.

    -Loki- on
  • AsherAsher Registered User regular
    I just picked up Dreamer and a friend just got Seamus, so nerfs for all! Guess we willl never now the joys of over efficient summoning and borked lures.

    Things my Red Terror has Swallowed Whole: A Mentors Librarian, a Fire Warrior Sash'Ui. Total Points: 109 (so far...)
    "Leapin' and Hoppin' on a Warpshadow" - Mah Nids
    The Swordwind Rises! - Biel Tan. All Aspects. All the time.
    "Before seeking Victory, first make yourself Invulnerable to defeat" - Sneaky sneaky Raptors
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    The Dreamers summoning is still great. Sacrificing a cheap totem (which you can re-summon easily anyway) to summon in an Enforcer is something other summoners wish they could do. Especially if you're lucky and that Enforcer is a fucking Teddy. But aside from Alps and Daydreams any of The Dreamers summons will write off the cost of Dreams of Pain. Personally I'm more of a fan of Restless Dreams, which buffs Lord Chompy Bits and gives The Dreamer more ranged attack options. But that's mostly because The Dreamers old summoning made me feel dirty.

    -Loki- on
  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    And lure on 7 is still fantastic.

    No-Quarter
  • AsherAsher Registered User regular
    Oh yeah totally. I looked at the dreamer nerf and thought that it was prety reasonable. You still get the suit, but only for one summon, not unlimited. It now seems merely good, rather than insane. Shame my FLGS is out of teddies!

    Things my Red Terror has Swallowed Whole: A Mentors Librarian, a Fire Warrior Sash'Ui. Total Points: 109 (so far...)
    "Leapin' and Hoppin' on a Warpshadow" - Mah Nids
    The Swordwind Rises! - Biel Tan. All Aspects. All the time.
    "Before seeking Victory, first make yourself Invulnerable to defeat" - Sneaky sneaky Raptors
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    admanb wrote: »
    And lure on 7 is still fantastic.

    Yeah, just looking at what Neverborn have, we've got Lure TN 5 on Baby Kade, Lure TN 6 on the Beckoners, Lure TN 7 on the Lilutu and Transfixing Gaze TN 8 on Lilith. Now, Transfixing Gaze is different to Lure (Cg rather than Wk (some models don't have a Cg) and a Push rather than a Move (to synergise with all the Pounces in Neverborn)) but it's effectively the same thing.

    So basically an Enforcer with Lure TN 7 and a Master with 'different' Lure TN 8, while the Belles, a Minion, have Lure TN 7. It's still really good for a Minion.
    Asher wrote: »
    Oh yeah totally. I looked at the dreamer nerf and thought that it was prety reasonable. You still get the suit, but only for one summon, not unlimited. It now seems merely good, rather than insane. Shame my FLGS is out of teddies!

    Try to dig up a Miss Ery as well, they tend to sell pretty cheap on eBay or in trades. Miss Ery is a Teddy. Bringing a Teddy is fun. Summoning a second Teddy at the right time can make your opponent crap themselves. You'll need Mr Tannen as well (he has an Aura that gives +2 to any flipped Masks, so you can only do it with a 13 of Masks ot a Red Joker while in his Aura. It also gives a -2 to other suits, so you can't just leave The Dreamer in his Aura).

    -Loki- on
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Gaining Grounds 2017 is up.

    General clean-up as errors were noticed
    The Carver is now a legal Killjoy proxy
    Round time limits have been increased by 15 minutes (to 2 hours)
    Calling Time rules have been adjusted. Organizers are encouraged to give players plenty of warning before Calling Time.
    The Ringer rules have been updated, but work essentially the same as has been done
    The 2017 Rotation is (obviously) new
    The Schemes are updated. This includes:
    Schemes moving location
    Schemes being removed
    Schemes being added

    I like the Carver being a legal Killjoy proxy. I hope they do a proxy card for that.

  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing to Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    edited January 2017
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Renders for everything are on Wyrds website (oddly, not their kickstarter page which they really should do).

    Gibbering Hordes
    Kings Empire
    Abyssinia
    Cult of the Burning Man

    These have been updated to include some asset attachments for commanders and champions.

    edit- Wooooow they add a lot of interesting value and flavor to the factions, especially Gibbering Hordes and Burning Man.

    GH can normally resurrect a dead squad (all 3 fireteams, so 9 models), they start back in their deployment zone but they get to move double speed for their first movement. There's an upgrade that let's you ress that unit next a Tide Pool, instead, so that's basically the middle of the table and then they move double their speed.

    Burning Man continues to be the Faction that hurts debuffs everybody, including themselves sometimes. Because Chaos the Burning Man is fickle.

    No-Quarter on
    ForceVoid
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    I really, really like how Gibbering Hordes plays. They're a horde army that doesn't being noticeably more models than the opponent. They get their horde feel from recycling units and more access to reinforcement tokens through skills on either units or commanders and assets, and some can ditch reinforcement tokens to shrug off wounds.

    In the vassal report they had two testers do, the hordes player had a unit of Striped Skulkers that he was essentially feeding to everything to make them all go Glory, and it just reinforced back up. Unfortunately they stopped the game at the end of turn 2 which is when the Gibbering Hordes player had a few units to recycle.

    It's worth noting that recycled units come in with a single Fireteam, and you need to reinforce them from there, and reinforcment fireteams can't do anything the turn they're summoned in, so it's not like you spend that time killing a unit and they're just back in your face at full strength, but it's a nice way to have a horde army feel like a horde army without making the person collecting it buy oodles more models than everyone else.

    Just from that Vassal game you could see the difference in how the Kings Empire and Gibbering hordes played. The Gibbering Hordes do their best to get into your face early, and they have the speed to get there or tricks to get you to them like the Stormsirens Siren Call or The Frenzy's ability to toss fireteams around. The Kings Empire mostly stays back with their guns and volley fires things to death. And holy shit can the Kings Hand lay down the hurt.

    -Loki- on
    No-QuarterForceVoid
  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing to Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    Abysinnia have shades of Tau, but with better close combat ability.

    Burning Man also depends on movement, but unlike GH, it's focused less on speed and more on movement "tricks" sort of like Circle Ourboros from WarmaHordes. The Burning Man commander Adeodatos even has an Ourboros-cribbed "yo yo" spell that let's him yank any friendly unit in Line of Sight back into base contact with him.

    mmmm hit and run

    ForceVoid
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    There's another vassal game on twitch right now, which will be put on youtube later. Abyssinia vs Cult.

    No-Quarter
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