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[PS4] Playstation NOW (Gaikai) is announced and detailed - Beta coming later this month

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    RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    Maz- wrote: »
    bss wrote: »
    Also keep in mind that many games have mandatory installs that will obliterate 12 GB. I'd check if your desired games are among them.

    Ah, that sucks.

    So, what are some good JRPGs on the PS3? So far what I'm interested in is Tales of Graces, Tales of Xillia and Ni no Kuni. Any other "must-haves"?

    That's a good start.

    All the Atelier games are pretty good (although some of them are also available on the Vita if you'd rather get them there). The most recent one is Atelier Ayesha which is a good place to start (since the other 3 form a loose trilogy) and the new one is Atelier Escha & Logy which comes out in March.

    Guided Fate Paradox is a roguelike with wacky NIS America story. Good stuff.

    I don't really consider Valkyria Chronicles to be an RPG (it's a full blown strategy/wargame IMO) but it's very good.

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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Eh, most of the bosses in dark souls you can position yourself where you can see their attacks from a distance that makes them pretty easy to dodge. I wouldn't want them to make the bosses easier. That's one of the things that's a draw of that game. There are unlimited games out there for people who don't want that challenge.

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    mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    Well, its official.

    When played for an hour or so every couple days as I unwind, I love Knack.

    Like, love it.

    More than Killzone. It's so damn pretty and it's easy but fun.

    Since I heard so much hate for it I wanted to chime in that I guess some folks may like it. I certainly do. A lot.

    PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
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    Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated NZRegistered User regular
    Maz- wrote: »
    What up nerds, I need some advice.

    I'm thinking about buying a Playstation 3 (yes, three) soon and I'm not quite sure which version / edition / whatever to buy.

    My main deciding factor is definitely the price - the cheaper, the better. The reason I'm only thinking about buying one now is because I'm on a fairly limited budget and so far there just haven't been enough games on the PS3 that interest me to justify the hefty price tag.
    Now that the PS4 is out, console prices have dropped and are finally in a range I consider acceptable for what I'm looking to get out of this system (mainly some JRPGs). I bought my PS2 in 2008 for 60€ and was pretty happy with my purchase.

    Now, what's caught my eye was the 12GB PS3 Slim which I can get for around 150€. Sure, not a lot of space on it but I don't plan on buying many digital games so this isn't much of a concern..and I've heard it's fairly easy to install a bigger hard drive.
    The one thing that's holding me back from buying it right now is that it's not backwards compatible. I've heard that only the older PS3s are backwards compatible, is that right? The thing is, I can barely find these older editions online a) new and b) for a decent price, I'm kinda weary about buying a console used after buying a shitty used PSP once.

    I guess I can still keep my PS2 around so this isn't a huge deal, but still. Is there some other reason why buying a 12GB Slim is a horrible idea or should I just do it?

    A HDD is necessary but you'll still end up saving money if you buy a 12GB PS3 and the HDD separately (just make sure they're 2.5" SATA drives with a height of 9.5mm). Unlike the others, I think the build quality is fine, so long as you're not actively trying to break it.

    As far as backwards compatibility goes, I should note that when people say that current PS3s aren't backwards compatible, they're ONLY talking about PS2 BC. I see a lot of people get confused over this but every PS3 is backwards compatible with PS1 games.

    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
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    MuffinatronMuffinatron Registered User regular
    Loving assassin's creed 4. Feels a lot like a 1st person Sid Meier's Pirates.

    The Shanties are too catchy. One of these days I'm going to have Sea Shanty nightmares.
    mxmarks wrote: »
    Well, its official.

    When played for an hour or so every couple days as I unwind, I love Knack.

    Like, love it.

    More than Killzone. It's so damn pretty and it's easy but fun.

    Since I heard so much hate for it I wanted to chime in that I guess some folks may like it. I certainly do. A lot.

    I really don't get the hate people have for it at all. It is a gorgeous game.

    Some people are moaning about the fact that small knack gets taken out in 2 hits or so, but I really don't understand that. If Super Mario gets hit once when he's small he's dead. Why should there be a difference for a 3d game?
    Maz- wrote: »
    What up nerds, I need some advice.

    I'm thinking about buying a Playstation 3 (yes, three) soon and I'm not quite sure which version / edition / whatever to buy.

    My main deciding factor is definitely the price - the cheaper, the better. The reason I'm only thinking about buying one now is because I'm on a fairly limited budget and so far there just haven't been enough games on the PS3 that interest me to justify the hefty price tag.
    Now that the PS4 is out, console prices have dropped and are finally in a range I consider acceptable for what I'm looking to get out of this system (mainly some JRPGs). I bought my PS2 in 2008 for 60€ and was pretty happy with my purchase.

    Now, what's caught my eye was the 12GB PS3 Slim which I can get for around 150€. Sure, not a lot of space on it but I don't plan on buying many digital games so this isn't much of a concern..and I've heard it's fairly easy to install a bigger hard drive.
    The one thing that's holding me back from buying it right now is that it's not backwards compatible. I've heard that only the older PS3s are backwards compatible, is that right? The thing is, I can barely find these older editions online a) new and b) for a decent price, I'm kinda weary about buying a console used after buying a shitty used PSP once.

    I guess I can still keep my PS2 around so this isn't a huge deal, but still. Is there some other reason why buying a 12GB Slim is a horrible idea or should I just do it?

    A HDD is necessary but you'll still end up saving money if you buy a 12GB PS3 and the HDD separately (just make sure they're 2.5" SATA drives with a height of 9.5mm). Unlike the others, I think the build quality is fine, so long as you're not actively trying to break it.

    As far as backwards compatibility goes, I should note that when people say that current PS3s aren't backwards compatible, they're ONLY talking about PS2 BC. I see a lot of people get confused over this but every PS3 is backwards compatible with PS1 games.

    .... holy shit. How did I not know this?

    PSN: Holy-Promethium
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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    The Blu-Ray player on the PS4 seems pretty sluggish compared to the PS3, and it just crashed on me.

    Had a pretty scary few minutes when I was forced to unplug the PS4 from the wall. Looks to be fine now, though.

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    nusunusu Registered User regular
    Trying out the browser by reading the ps4 forum thread and wondering if they will add bluetooth keyboard support soon

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    zllehszllehs Hiding in a box, waiting to strike.Registered User regular
    Sony Teases Possible Naughty Dog Announcement for January 6th
    Sony Computer Entertainment Italy seems to be teasing something on its Facebook Page.
    The message in Italian, that appeared on the header of the page, says “We have been naughty, and we’re proud of it. 6.01.14.” You can see it at the bottom of the post.

    The teaser image, that for the moment appeared only on the Italian Facebook page, is related to the tradition of threatening naughty children with the gift of a lump of coal on Christmas and on the Epiphany holiday (which happens exactly on January 6th, when kids receive gifts and candy as well, even if normally smaller ones than on Christmas), which is particularly rooted in Italy. Only, the coal is shaped like a PS4 controller.

    It’s also worth mentioning for those that live in North America that in Italy dates have the day first and the month second, so 06.01 means January 6th, not June 1st.

    The tease could be related to Naughty Dog, considering that the word “Naughty” in Italian is included in it. Of course it could also be something else entirely, and you should consider it a rumor until an official announcement is made directly by Sony.
    We reached out to Sony Computer Entertainment Italy to ask if they have more information to share, and we’ll let you know if we receive any relevant details.

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    Zoku GojiraZoku Gojira Monster IslandRegistered User regular
    Allforce wrote: »
    Which drive did you buy?
    Can you take the old 500 GB drive from the PS4 and then format it and use it on the PS3?

    My 500 GB drive from the PS4 worked in the PS3. Just FYI, though, I went through three USB thumb drives before I found one that either system would recognize when installing the downloaded system software package.

    "Because things are the way they are, things will not stay the way they are." - Bertolt Brecht
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    Magus`Magus` The fun has been DOUBLED! Registered User regular
    I'm wondering how the Cloud service will work. Are you basically playing the game on another 'console' and having it stream to you? That'll be interesting.

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    Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated NZRegistered User regular
    Allforce wrote: »
    Which drive did you buy?
    Can you take the old 500 GB drive from the PS4 and then format it and use it on the PS3?

    My 500 GB drive from the PS4 worked in the PS3. Just FYI, though, I went through three USB thumb drives before I found one that either system would recognize when installing the downloaded system software package.

    Format those other drives to FAT32 and your PS3 and PS4 will detect them. NTFS is Microsoft's proprietary file system.
    Magus` wrote: »
    I'm wondering how the Cloud service will work. Are you basically playing the game on another 'console' and having it stream to you? That'll be interesting.

    That's exactly how it works. Your inputs are streamed to Sony's servers and the output is streamed back to you.

    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
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    Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated NZRegistered User regular
    The Sony CES conference will take place in a couple of days and Sony are live streaming it here:
    http://blog.sony.com/ces2014/

    It's highly unlikely they'll announce any games there (I can't remember the last time anyone bothered to do so) but a lot of people are expecting Sony to announce their VR headset. I wouldn't be surprised if they made some small announcements too, like the current sales numbers and/or DriveClub's release date.

    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
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    useless4useless4 Registered User regular
    was Drive Club a launch game initially? hopefully they are close because I am starting to get the itch to buy a Xbone and Forza.

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    bssbss Brostoyevsky Madison, WIRegistered User regular
    useless4 wrote: »
    was Drive Club a launch game initially? hopefully they are close because I am starting to get the itch to buy a Xbone and Forza.

    Yes, there was going to be a more or less complete edition (i.e. just missing extra cars or DLC or something, but enough to plat the game) free on PS+ at launch. Contrast was the Plan B when Drive Club was delayed.

    3DS: 2466-2307-8384 PSN: bssteph Steam: bsstephan Twitch: bsstephan
    Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e
    Occasional words about games: my site
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    zllehszllehs Hiding in a box, waiting to strike.Registered User regular
    edited January 2014
    Sony trademarks 2 LBP related items
    http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/01/04/sony-registers-two-trademarks-for-lbp-another-littlebigplanet-game-incoming/
    LBPTM1.jpg
    LBPTM2.jpg

    From the article:
    While the first could match the already announced LittleBigPlanet Hub for PS3 due to the description as a “game service provided as means of the internet,” the name is different, and it’s not very common for an acronym to be registered like that.

    The second trademark is more interesting, as it has a double class. The first is “computer game software,” and the second definitely doesn’t fit LittleBigPlanet Hub, as it describes physical goods, including bags for handheld devices.

    zllehs on
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    mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    With the filing date that old, is it possible its for that Vita LBP bundle I have that came with a bag for my vita and a bobblehead?

    PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
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    zllehszllehs Hiding in a box, waiting to strike.Registered User regular
    edited January 2014
    Has that hub come out on the PS3 yet?

    zllehs on
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    JibbaJibba Registered User regular
    edited January 2014
    I know it's not an exclusive or anything, but Lego Marvel is goddamn delightful. Also a fan of Contrast.

    Jibba on
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    Zoku GojiraZoku Gojira Monster IslandRegistered User regular
    edited January 2014
    Format those other drives to FAT32 and your PS3 and PS4 will detect them. NTFS is Microsoft's proprietary file system.

    That's what I did, as per the instructions. The PS3 and PS4 simply will not recognize certain thumb drives in the setup software install process. The consensus among the support threads is to just keep trying different drives until one works.

    Zoku Gojira on
    "Because things are the way they are, things will not stay the way they are." - Bertolt Brecht
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    zllehs wrote: »
    Sony Teases Possible Naughty Dog Announcement for January 6th
    Sony Computer Entertainment Italy seems to be teasing something on its Facebook Page.
    The message in Italian, that appeared on the header of the page, says “We have been naughty, and we’re proud of it. 6.01.14.” You can see it at the bottom of the post.

    The teaser image, that for the moment appeared only on the Italian Facebook page, is related to the tradition of threatening naughty children with the gift of a lump of coal on Christmas and on the Epiphany holiday (which happens exactly on January 6th, when kids receive gifts and candy as well, even if normally smaller ones than on Christmas), which is particularly rooted in Italy. Only, the coal is shaped like a PS4 controller.

    It’s also worth mentioning for those that live in North America that in Italy dates have the day first and the month second, so 06.01 means January 6th, not June 1st.

    The tease could be related to Naughty Dog, considering that the word “Naughty” in Italian is included in it. Of course it could also be something else entirely, and you should consider it a rumor until an official announcement is made directly by Sony.
    We reached out to Sony Computer Entertainment Italy to ask if they have more information to share, and we’ll let you know if we receive any relevant details.

    plus this
    The Sony CES conference will take place in a couple of days and Sony are live streaming it here:
    http://blog.sony.com/ces2014/

    It's highly unlikely they'll announce any games there (I can't remember the last time anyone bothered to do so) but a lot of people are expecting Sony to announce their VR headset. I wouldn't be surprised if they made some small announcements too, like the current sales numbers and/or DriveClub's release date.

    Equals

    Something cool maybe?

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    Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    Naughty VR exclusive to PS4?

    I'm in!

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
    PSN: SirGrinchX
    Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
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    SagrothSagroth Registered User regular
    edited January 2014
    Ok, weird question:

    I'm getting a PS4 in a few weeks hopefully, but in the meantime, I have a bricked launch PS3 that I've had since, well, launch. It's waaaaaaay out of warranty, and I know that sending it in to Sony means getting a non backwards compatible model back. Now, I could live with that despite still owning all my PS2 games, but I also installed a 500gb hard drive in it a while back, and a whole new PS3 of any kind will format the hard drive and wipe it all out. The PS3 is bricked, so no new backup, and my last one is quite out of date.

    So my question is: I see these local shops and online folks insisting they can fix a bricked PS3 for $150 or so. Are any of them at all trustworthy? I really really want my old PS3 back.

    Sagroth on
    3DS Code: 5155-3087-0800
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    Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    I've done a few, none have died again as of yet. But then again I don't charge or do it professionally. If you're fairly comfortable taking a PC to pieces you could give it a bash yourself, the old PS3s are fairly modular in design, and using the heat gun on it is easy.

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
    PSN: SirGrinchX
    Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
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    SagrothSagroth Registered User regular
    I may do that. Thanks!

    3DS Code: 5155-3087-0800
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    zllehszllehs Hiding in a box, waiting to strike.Registered User regular
    UV and the Grinch may be on to something...

    Playstation HOME and Skydieving developer confirm PlayStation 4 And Oculus Rift Exclusive Game Projects coming in 2014

    http://wccftech.com/playstation-4-oculus-rift-exclusive-game-projects-confirmed-ndreams
    nDreams, the developer of Skydieving is working on more titles for PlayStation 4 and Oculus Rift. The developer has announced two new PlayStation 4 and Oculus Rift game projects that are in development and would release this year 2014. Patrick O’Luanaigh, CEO of nDreams confirmed the development of new PlayStation 4 and Oculus Rift titles in a recent investor letter.

    “I’m delighted to be able to officially announce that we are working on a PlayStation 4 title, which will launch in 2014,” he said in investor letter. “More details will follow next year, but it’s the most ambitious game we have ever created, and we can’t wait to reveal more about it – it’s going to be something truly special.”

    “We’re also working on a game for the awesome Oculus Rift. VR is an area of technology that we believe will finally come of age in 2014, and you’ll see us investing a great deal of time and money into it.”

    Could these 2 games be the same thing and be for the Oculus rift AND the new SONY VR headset scheduled to be revealed at CES today?

    here is a look at Skydieving

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G3GVdY2Q6m4

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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Ok, weird question:

    I'm getting a PS4 in a few weeks hopefully, but in the meantime, I have a bricked launch PS3 that I've had since, well, launch. It's waaaaaaay out of warranty, and I know that sending it in to Sony means getting a non backwards compatible model back. Now, I could live with that despite still owning all my PS2 games, but I also installed a 500gb hard drive in it a while back, and a whole new PS3 of any kind will format the hard drive and wipe it all out. The PS3 is bricked, so no new backup, and my last one is quite out of date.

    So my question is: I see these local shops and online folks insisting they can fix a bricked PS3 for $150 or so. Are any of them at all trustworthy? I really really want my old PS3 back.

    I used gophermods.com to repair my yellow light of death original PS3 model last year. It cost $79 and that included the shipping. I didn't feel like messing with a heat gun myself. That being said, their website indicated it would still only be a temporary fix, and it did die again about a year later of more heavy use. I had it since launch so it didn't surprise me. Thankfully most of my favorite ps2 games are coming out on ps3 in hd collections and what not so i'm only stuck with a few games I can't play now. I just replaced it with a new ps3 and let my old one die a noble death.

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    cardboard delusionscardboard delusions USAgent PSN: USAgent31Registered User regular
    This may be the wrong place to ask but I figured we're all in the PS family - I cannot for the life of me find my copy of Assassin's Creed 2 on PS3, perhaps still at a friend's house. Does anyone live in the states that would ship me a copy to throw in just to sync for Ubisoft's Assassin Network thing. I'll pay shipping and send it back, I just wanted to sync my 100% to the server. If not I'll scour ebay for a copy just haven't found one under $10 yet.

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    FawstFawst The road to awe.Registered User regular
    Ardent wrote: »
    This, plus someone leading a raid insisting we must do it their way, is exactly why raiding in MMOs started to suck.

    The idea that an encounter should require the raid to wipe on it several times before achieving success in order to artificially sweeten that success?

    Utter bullshit.

    What the hell game is this?

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    FawstFawst The road to awe.Registered User regular
    This may be the wrong place to ask but I figured we're all in the PS family - I cannot for the life of me find my copy of Assassin's Creed 2 on PS3, perhaps still at a friend's house. Does anyone live in the states that would ship me a copy to throw in just to sync for Ubisoft's Assassin Network thing. I'll pay shipping and send it back, I just wanted to sync my 100% to the server. If not I'll scour ebay for a copy just haven't found one under $10 yet.

    Check your local Gamestop? Pre-owned games can be returned for your money back within 7 days. I somehow doubt they would really be upset if you told them up front to expect you back in about 30 minutes because of what you're planning.

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    cardboard delusionscardboard delusions USAgent PSN: USAgent31Registered User regular
    That's a pretty good idea - I suppose I could just buy it and return it.

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    JibbaJibba Registered User regular
    edited January 2014
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Tangential, but no MMO i've ever played has had raid content that required you to wipe on it before beating it. Every time any raid I have been in has died to a well designed encounter it was because we didn't execute properly. Even the absolute hardest fights in WoW could've been beaten first try by a group of people playing perfectly and reacting and recognizing what was going on in real time. Just because people aren't perfect and have to see something, take it in, learn from their mistakes, etc. is not bullshit. It just means it was designed to require tight mechanics and execution that's hard to pull off the first try.

    If an encounter is designed to where you know what to expect and it doesn't require tight mechanics to pull off then it's not hard, and sometimes people want something that is actually hard.
    Well, except the encounters that were outright broken to begin with (like C'thun or Vashj) or certain gear checks.

    But the gameplay and challenge in MMO's is completely different than that of action games like Dark Souls. What The Sauce describes would be nice, but it would be insufficient in MMO's because there is no challenge in the mechanics. Mechanically, WoW is just a really, really simple game (as are almost all MMO's, even something like TERA or GW2.) Its difficulty derived from teamwork and puzzle solving, which is why it involves a lot of trial and error and a lot of dying. If you understood what moves bosses were going to make ahead of time and how to deal with them, it'd be stupidly easy because you're rarely ever tested physically like you are in platformers or action games.

    The game in MMO's is learning the rules of a given situation, not doing something spectacular with your character. I think Dark Souls was a combination of the two.

    Jibba on
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    BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    Quite a few high end raids in WoW did require wipes to figure out what to do. I refuse to believe that anyone could go into Patchwerk or C'Thun blind and actually get a kill on the first shot. Looking it up online just means that someone else ate a bunch of those wipes for you, but they still happened. Some fights required more wipes than others, but I can't recall anything that spelled it out before the fight.

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    FawstFawst The road to awe.Registered User regular
    Ok, when I had read "required," I took it to mean "the 'is this encounter winnable' flag is not set to 'true' until you have wiped at least X times."

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    JibbaJibba Registered User regular
    Bobble wrote: »
    Quite a few high end raids in WoW did require wipes to figure out what to do. I refuse to believe that anyone could go into Patchwerk or C'Thun blind and actually get a kill on the first shot. Looking it up online just means that someone else ate a bunch of those wipes for you, but they still happened. Some fights required more wipes than others, but I can't recall anything that spelled it out before the fight.

    Agreed. Patchwerk was a perfect example of what I'm talking about. It turned out to be fairly simple fight that required no exceptional gameplay from the vast majority of members, and the roles that were key (OT, healer) had timing windows that would be considered enormous to any fighting game player or even a Donkey Kong player. The only challenge was learning his rules, therefore I think death trial and error was the only way to make the encounter difficult.

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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Jibba wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Tangential, but no MMO i've ever played has had raid content that required you to wipe on it before beating it. Every time any raid I have been in has died to a well designed encounter it was because we didn't execute properly. Even the absolute hardest fights in WoW could've been beaten first try by a group of people playing perfectly and reacting and recognizing what was going on in real time. Just because people aren't perfect and have to see something, take it in, learn from their mistakes, etc. is not bullshit. It just means it was designed to require tight mechanics and execution that's hard to pull off the first try.

    If an encounter is designed to where you know what to expect and it doesn't require tight mechanics to pull off then it's not hard, and sometimes people want something that is actually hard.
    Well, except the encounters that were outright broken to begin with (like C'thun or Vashj) or certain gear checks.

    But the gameplay and challenge in MMO's is completely different than that of action games like Dark Souls. What The Sauce describes would be nice, but it would be insufficient in MMO's because there is no challenge in the mechanics. Mechanically, WoW is just a really, really simple game (as are almost all MMO's, even something like TERA or GW2.) Its difficulty derived from teamwork and puzzle solving, which is why it involves a lot of trial and error and a lot of dying. If you understood what moves bosses were going to make ahead of time and how to deal with them, it'd be stupidly easy because you're rarely ever tested physically like you are in platformers or action games.

    The game in MMO's is learning the rules of a given situation, not doing something spectacular with your character. I think Dark Souls was a combination of the two.

    The fights in WoW raiding that were legitimately hard and fun like hard mode Mimiron and stuff like that, it didn't matter if ever member of your raid studied the videos ahead of time. You were going to wipe on them because it required precise timing and movement, not unlike platformers. Not jumping pits, but constant positioning and timing cooldowns down to a split second. I haven't played WoW in some time, but some of the hard modes in Ulduar were pinnacles of what the MMO genre could do at its best at that time.

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    VorpalVorpal Registered User regular
    Ardent wrote: »
    bss wrote: »
    The Sauce wrote: »
    Dark Souls is great, but yeah it had some problems. The camera was pretty terrible, and the level design didn't compensate for it (quite the opposite actually). Spellcaster enemies could aim-target you from farther away than you could for no reason other than a strange interface decision. Most bosses were kinda poorly designed in that they were either strangely easy, or they would drop you in one or two hits if you didn't dodge properly, which you couldn't do until you'd learned their movements. That means you were basically forced to die a bunch (and thus replay sections) until you could recognize the attacks and react properly.

    It was fun for a run or two, but I'd definitely like a new take on the formula. I'm hoping Deep Down delivers that.

    All the positive things that people are saying about Dark Souls are things I appreciate, but this post is a good start to what turned me off of the game entirely. It's great that it's difficult, and rewards tight mastery of the game, but it does that and then goes a step further to punish you in really cheap ways. There are deaths where you screwed up, and deaths where the game decided it didn't want to give you a chance.

    When I'm looking forward to an experience devoted to system mastery I'll spend my time on fighting games; when I'm willing to put up with winning by repeated learning-by-dying attempts, I'll just play something like Hotline Miami where I respawn instantly and death costs me 30 seconds. Maybe I just don't have time or patience to be dicked around the way Dark Souls does.
    This, plus someone leading a raid insisting we must do it their way, is exactly why raiding in MMOs started to suck.

    The idea that an encounter should require the raid to wipe on it several times before achieving success in order to artificially sweeten that success?

    Utter bullshit. Platformers are the ultimate expression of challenging gameplay because there aren't any real surprises. You know what you've got to do. Sometimes you get new tools to do it, but fundamentally nothing changes between 1-1 and 10-4.

    It's not the case that all bosses in Dark Souls require you to die lots before you beat them.

    Several bosses I killed on my first ever attempt on my first playthrough (Queelag, Gaping Dragon, Sif). Others took literally one death to figure out the 'gimmick' (Moonlit butterfly, hydra, prowling demons etc)

    Others I died quite a bit on (Oddly, I didn't have much trouble with the capra demon at all and the Iron golem, usually considered a pretty easy boss, gave me fits). I probably died more often to Havel (very early on) than anything else though.

    Are there moments where you die and you are tempted to sit up and say "Bullshit! I didn't know what was going to happen!"? Absolutely. I imagine most people get roasted by that fire breathing dragon as he swoops down and immolates the bridge. Moments like that are what make those games memorable and enjoyable. Asking to remove them is essentially asking that the game never surprise you, which sounds like a pretty dull game. Early on you learn not to wander around with huge stocks of souls on you that will vanish if you die, so the death doesn't even have all that great of a penalty in dark souls (in demon souls it seems a bit harsher).

    The game killing you in unexpected ways is their way of telling you their gameworld is a harsh and dangerous place so stay on your toes! And those times the game tries to kill you unfairly but you see it coming and get out of the way in time feel REALLY good.

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    JibbaJibba Registered User regular
    edited January 2014
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Jibba wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Tangential, but no MMO i've ever played has had raid content that required you to wipe on it before beating it. Every time any raid I have been in has died to a well designed encounter it was because we didn't execute properly. Even the absolute hardest fights in WoW could've been beaten first try by a group of people playing perfectly and reacting and recognizing what was going on in real time. Just because people aren't perfect and have to see something, take it in, learn from their mistakes, etc. is not bullshit. It just means it was designed to require tight mechanics and execution that's hard to pull off the first try.

    If an encounter is designed to where you know what to expect and it doesn't require tight mechanics to pull off then it's not hard, and sometimes people want something that is actually hard.
    Well, except the encounters that were outright broken to begin with (like C'thun or Vashj) or certain gear checks.

    But the gameplay and challenge in MMO's is completely different than that of action games like Dark Souls. What The Sauce describes would be nice, but it would be insufficient in MMO's because there is no challenge in the mechanics. Mechanically, WoW is just a really, really simple game (as are almost all MMO's, even something like TERA or GW2.) Its difficulty derived from teamwork and puzzle solving, which is why it involves a lot of trial and error and a lot of dying. If you understood what moves bosses were going to make ahead of time and how to deal with them, it'd be stupidly easy because you're rarely ever tested physically like you are in platformers or action games.

    The game in MMO's is learning the rules of a given situation, not doing something spectacular with your character. I think Dark Souls was a combination of the two.

    The fights in WoW raiding that were legitimately hard and fun like hard mode Mimiron and stuff like that, it didn't matter if ever member of your raid studied the videos ahead of time. You were going to wipe on them because it required precise timing and movement, not unlike platformers. Not jumping pits, but constant positioning and timing cooldowns down to a split second. I haven't played WoW in some time, but some of the hard modes in Ulduar were pinnacles of what the MMO genre could do at its best at that time.

    Those timings were still pretty large, though. I skipped WotLK but I was doing bleeding edge stuff in Vanilla/TBC/Cata and the timings were just not that scary. It was probably a necessity due to lag and having so many people, but the reaction times and precision required to be a top tier raider is worlds below the requirement for competitive anything else. Now dedication, flexibility, cleverness, etc. is a different ballgame. But you're just not dealing with stuff like frame perfect moves or 10ms reactions in MMO's. They're basically multiplayer puzzles. That's where the difficulty lies, which is why I think lots of dying is fair.

    Jibba on
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    BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    WoW raiding has evolved thru several stages over its time. Sunwell raiding was not the same as BC raiding, nor were either of them the same as Vanilla raiding (and hell, even within Vanilla there were some vast differences as you went from MC to BWL to AQ to Naxx). So let's keep that much in mind.

    The core challenge of MMO raiding is cat herding. Other challenges were certainly present, but coordination and consistency were the biggest ones (in my experience).

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    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited January 2014
    Found a single PS4 sitting in the locked closet in some random Target when I was visiting Spokane this weekend. Updated without incident and started playing Knack. I love it. I am glad I didnt listen to the naysayers and instead listened to some of the posts I saw in here.

    One thing: Did anyone else's PS4 not contain the free 30 days of plus and video unlimited? I had a free 30 days in the PS Store for Music Unlimited but not for those other two. I was told it PS Plus was an added pamphlet in the box. Nadda in mine.

    Jubal77 on
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    Skull2185Skull2185 Registered User regular
    edited January 2014
    There definitely should've been a pamphlet thing for PS+ in the box. Was there a code for $10 PS Store credit?


    Might be worth a shot to contact Sony Support.

    Edit: @Jubal77

    I think I still have my PS+ code in the PS4 box. I can PM it to you later if you want.

    Skull2185 on
    Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
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