Yeah I really don't care about 30 or 60 fps. What really gets me is when your game hits something intensive and turns into a slideshow. As long as that's kept to a minimum, I'll take smoother over faster. Shadow Fall was 30 fps and it didn't bother me.
I can barely tell the difference between 60 FPS and 30 FPS. Dips below 30 FPS are quite noticeable to me though. I think most people are probably going to be ok with making a game look amazing but run at 'only' 30 FPS.
Regarding screen aspect ratios, if you don't want black bars on your screen, almost all remotely new TV's have auto cropping/zooming built in.
I don't mind the black bars because if I see black bars it means the director's vision for the film involved a different aspect ratio than my TV. I can either see all of the director's vision, or use all the real estate on my TV.
Square announced keyboard and mouse support in the ff14 trailer. Is that even supported in the PS4 OS yet?
Keyboards are most certainly supported. Mice are detected, but it's up to the particular application to support them, and I don't know of a single application that does.
The black bar thing in games is pretty simple for me.
I spent money on a big old 60" TV. I'm basically getting the real estate of a TV that cost half the price. Sure, I can do the zoom/stretch thing on my TV but then I'm missing actual parts of the game that might be important. All because the developers chose to use a fraction of my TV, despite the fact that 99% of people playing the game are using a 16:9 aspect ratio (citation needed). It just seems obtuse to do that with a video game.
I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I'm starting to feel the same about movies. I understand the artistic license of the director, I understand that some films are designed for the movie screen rather than the TV in my living room...but it's pretty obnoxious to spend thousands of dollars on top-notch AV equipment and then have a fraction of it being used because of "artistic reasons." I'm not a movie buff by any stretch of the imagination, so I'd very much love if all blurays had a 16:9 version on it.
I guess I'm weird because I don't give two shits about black bars and never have. Then again, I think pan and scan cuts of movies are the work of the devil, right up there with mayonnaise and Justin Bieber.
You will never notice a lack of quality at 30 FPS instead of 60 UNLESS you're playing a game where every frame of animation must be preserved for the experience to work. Example: Fighting games. In terms of most games, you get a silkier experience at 60 versus 30 but as long as the frame rate is locked at 30 the game will still run perfectly smooth, you'll just get conspicuous dropped frames when you're panning the camera fast for instance.
The black bar thing in games is pretty simple for me.
I spent money on a big old 60" TV. I'm basically getting the real estate of a TV that cost half the price. Sure, I can do the zoom/stretch thing on my TV but then I'm missing actual parts of the game that might be important. All because the developers chose to use a fraction of my TV, despite the fact that 99% of people playing the game are using a 16:9 aspect ratio (citation needed). It just seems obtuse to do that with a video game.
I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I'm starting to feel the same about movies. I understand the artistic license of the director, I understand that some films are designed for the movie screen rather than the TV in my living room...but it's pretty obnoxious to spend thousands of dollars on top-notch AV equipment and then have a fraction of it being used because of "artistic reasons." I'm not a movie buff by any stretch of the imagination, so I'd very much love if all blurays had a 16:9 version on it.
If you're watching a blu-ray with black bars, it's because the director of the film shot it in that aspect ratio. To maintain the aspect ratio while filling up your TV would require a TV that can display a much higher resolution than your TV can. If you use the zoom on your TV, then you're getting what you want. You get a stretched image, but at least you get to fill up your whole TV screen. =P
Also, 2.40:1 is not "for the movie screen" and 1.78:1 "for the living room." Plenty of people shoot movies in 1.85:1 too, if what they want is not super wide shots but rather taller less wide ones. It's two different aspect ratios used for different shots.
Ready at Dawn chose to do The Order in super wide because they want to have super wide shots in their game. It's a visual design choice.
If you're spending thousands on high quality AV equipment, it seems like you'd try to better understand the fact that 2.40:1 super wide being maintained on a blu-ray is giving you the version of a film that the creators intended, which to me gives you the best experience possible.
There are so many amazing super wide shots in film that they couldn't put in their films if you convinced them to shoot everything in 1.85:1
If you're watching a blu-ray with black bars, it's because the director of the film shot it in that aspect ratio. To maintain the aspect ratio while filling up your TV would require a TV that can display a much higher resolution than your TV can. If you use the zoom on your TV, then you're getting what you want. You get a stretched image, but at least you get to fill up your whole TV screen. =P
Also, 2.40:1 is not "for the movie screen" and 1.78:1 "for the living room." Plenty of people shoot movies in 1.85:1 too, if what they want is not super wide shots but rather taller less wide ones. It's two different aspect ratios used for different shots.
Ready at Dawn chose to do The Order in super wide because they want to have super wide shots in their game. It's a visual design choice.
If you're spending thousands on high quality AV equipment, it seems like you'd try to better understand the fact that 2.40:1 super wide being maintained on a blu-ray is giving you the version of a film that the creators intended, which to me gives you the best experience possible.
There are so many amazing super wide shots in film that they couldn't put in their films if you convinced them to shoot everything in 1.85:1
I'm familiar with the technical limitations and the reason I have black bars. My disagreement is that you can spend $1800 on a 60" HDTV and get a fraction of the usable space. If I wanted a 40" image, I could've saved a bunch of money and bought a 40" TV. At least, in theory I could, because if I had I'd probably end up with a much tinier image on that 40" TV.
I specifically stated I'm not a movie buff and I get that film guys have their reasons for doing these things. In a game though, it seems obnoxious. You know that the game is only on PS4, only on HDMI, and a vast majority of living room TV's are going to play at a certain aspect ratio. You're sacrificing all of this for super wide shots in gameplay. That's going to have implications on the game, especially as a shooter. Are we playing in a flat city? Is any verticality in the levels going to suffer?
Part of this boils down to me having an admittedly unrefined eye for films. Sure, a wide shot that the creators meticulously designed is cool. But I personally would enjoy a shot that's 80% as cool that's using 100% of my big screen instead of the opposite. The numbers are obviously going to vary, and the threshold subjective, but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to be annoyed that a game designer is making that choice for them.
A great compromise, which most designers seem to do, is to give you wide cinematics and full-screen gameplay. I don't mind black bars if it's a wide, panning cityscape. But don't make me feel like I'm Levar Burton while I'm shooting mans because your artistic vision dictated a wider shot.
It's not a technical limitation. You can stretch the image to fit your TV if you want to use all the real estate. That's not destroying the intent of the image any more than slicing off the sides of it to make it 16:9 is.
I was only really replying with regard to movies, not games. In movies, shootig in 2.40:1 can be crucial to the experience of the film. For games, I'm pretty skeptical.
I actually agree that it seems weird to do 2.40:1 in a game. To be completely honest, it indicates to me that the game designer is more worried about being cinematic than they are delivering good gameplay to me, and MOST of the time, that is a huge red flag to me. If i'm playing Telltale's games or something, sure, It's an interactive story movie game. But if I'm playing a 3rd person shooter, I care a hell of a lot more about your shooting mechanics and the general gameplay than you trying to give me a super wide shot of something.
For me it's just a waiting game with The Order. All these choices could lead to an amazing game, or it could flop hugely. Just because everybody wants to hype the shit out of it because it's an interesting sounding new IP does not make it a good game. I've liked what i've played from Ready at Dawn so far, so they get the benefit of the doubt from me, but we'll see.
I want to apologize for my last post. Its a page or two back. I was in a bad move, and the post I was replying to got me angry, and I stopped thinking. It was really freaking dumb of me, and I apologize if anyone was offended by it.
I do understand movies and why they get Black Bars. I firmly believe that it had its place back in the days of 4:3 TVs. I also think that the whole Stretch/Zoom function of TVs suck, because all they do is crop it down without regard to the image. You need a human who actually cares about the film do the 16:9 cropping in order to ensure that nothing is lost.
If there are people out there who like black bars, good for them. The black bars annoy the hell out of me, but each his own.
PSN|AspectVoid
0
jeffinvaKooglercoming this summerRegistered Userregular
Has anyone had any luck finding a gold wireless headset anywhere? I may just order it on Amazon, but I'd rather scoop one up while I'm out running errands or grabbing dinner.
I want to apologize for my last post. Its a page or two back. I was in a bad move, and the post I was replying to got me angry, and I stopped thinking. It was really freaking dumb of me, and I apologize if anyone was offended by it.
I do understand movies and why they get Black Bars. I firmly believe that it had its place back in the days of 4:3 TVs. I also think that the whole Stretch/Zoom function of TVs suck, because all they do is crop it down without regard to the image. You need a human who actually cares about the film do the 16:9 cropping in order to ensure that nothing is lost.
If there are people out there who like black bars, good for them. The black bars annoy the hell out of me, but each his own.
I don't like black bars, but if a film is shot in 2.40:1 and my TV can't display that aspect ratio without black bars, I most definitely want black bars instead of the other alternatives, which are to stretch it or to outright cut parts of the image out.
I do understand movies and why they get Black Bars. I firmly believe that it had its place back in the days of 4:3 TVs. I also think that the whole Stretch/Zoom function of TVs suck, because all they do is crop it down without regard to the image. You need a human who actually cares about the film do the 16:9 cropping in order to ensure that nothing is lost.
If there are people out there who like black bars, good for them. The black bars annoy the hell out of me, but each his own.
Something is always lost in cropping, by definition.
You either accept the black bars, or you use your TV's zoom/crop feature.
Or you launch a crusade to get all media content producers to adhere to whatever aspect ratio your TV happens to employ.
Or you can buy a whole variety of TVs, in different aspect ratios, and use whichever one fits the aspect ratio of the content you are currently consuming.
Some of these choices are more realistic than others.
I also find the assertion that being able to see more to the left and right of you would be detrimental to a first person shooter game to be highly suspect. I think being able to see such a wider angle would be extremely helpful.
In fact, I think you can demonstrate mathematically that if your opponents are taller than they are wide (and the average male is more than 3 times as tall as they are wide), trading field of view above and below you for field of view to the left and right of you is almost always going to be a good trade. You will be able to greatly increase the potential number of assailants you can see at once. This has been true in just about every FPS I've played - I'm constantly trying to increase the horizontal field of view.
You can see more to the left and right of you, but less of the guys on the balcony shooting you! Obviously Ready at Dawn is designing their game to be in this aspect ratio so if they do their jobs it'll be good and nobody will care about the aspect ratio outside of the few people who just hate black bars.
If you want to really hate black bars for good reason, hate them in Dragon's Dogma, where the game doesn't have a very good engine anyway, they used them to try to help the performance, and yet it still crawls in frame rate when you cast spells. =P And then you keep playing anyway because it does enough thing so right that you can't help yourself.
You can see more to the left and right of you, but less of the guys on the balcony shooting you!
Yes, but the guys on the balcony fill lets say six feet of vertical space. I need only to see part of them to know they are there.
Guys to the left and right of me fill about 18" of horizontal space.
Simply because of the way humanoids are shaped, a wider, shorter cross section is going to intersect more targets than a narrower, taller cross section.
It's not even really as relevant in video games, because what matters is where the designers place things on screen and they're obviously going to place them in places that are not a pain in the ass for players to see regardless of what aspect ratio they use.
If any of you are playing Killzone online, I can recommend the warzone of the week 'AIR DRONE GAUNTLET', it's amazing. It might be in the EU only, not entirely sure.
Everything is disabled apart from:
Support Class
Revive Drone
Tactical Spawn Point
Air Support Drone
'The Wall' map
There's so many drones flying about that you have to stay in cover (you've only got melee so you can't shoot them down). Then if you have the other team pinned down in the topless shipping container exits to the base (the left exit of the base, right side if you're attacking) you have great moments when either team is just waiting on either side of the container for the other team to make a bad move and then you all jump in and melee kill them all with your knife. It's quite surreal.
On the last game I played I had 56 kills, none of which were from the support drone, just me running about and slicing at helghans.
It's not even really as relevant in video games, because what matters is where the designers place things on screen and they're obviously going to place them in places that are not a pain in the ass for players to see regardless of what aspect ratio they use.
True, good point. Designers can easily construct the encounters to best show off whatever aspect ratio they've chosen.
I do understand movies and why they get Black Bars. I firmly believe that it had its place back in the days of 4:3 TVs. I also think that the whole Stretch/Zoom function of TVs suck, because all they do is crop it down without regard to the image. You need a human who actually cares about the film do the 16:9 cropping in order to ensure that nothing is lost.
If there are people out there who like black bars, good for them. The black bars annoy the hell out of me, but each his own.
Something is always lost in cropping, by definition.
You either accept the black bars, or you use your TV's zoom/crop feature.
<lots of stuff I didn't feel like quoting>
Or I can just be annoyed at black bars and occasionally complain about them on random forums, making a fool of myself.
...
Yeah, that seems like the easiest plan. I think I'll go with that. :P
PSN|AspectVoid
+1
jeffinvaKooglercoming this summerRegistered Userregular
Yay found a gold wireless. One Gamestop had two left. Time to try it out with a movie first.
If any of you are playing Killzone online, I can recommend the warzone of the week 'AIR DRONE GAUNTLET', it's amazing. It might be in the EU only, not entirely sure.
That sounds pretty awesome. I need to jump into some KZ multiplayer again, had a blast the first week or two and then fell off hard as BF4 dug its claws into me.
Apparently the media briefing from earlier this week had embargoes for the PS4 sides of things, and it seems like the Second Son embargo is lifting today. Redditors seem to think MLB the Show's embargo lifts tomorrow and the Order next week.
Yay found a gold wireless. One Gamestop had two left. Time to try it out with a movie first.
Pretty dope for $100. The 7.1 is better than I was expecting, instant setup on ps4 and PC. Made me realize I need a real sound solution for my tv. Been missing out on a lot of audio with all of these blurays I own.
Bought a PS4 and Killzone, it should arrive Saturday. Ironically I bought a PS3 after seeing Killzone 2 footage but ended up never getting it (first two games were Uncharted 2 and Infamous). They finally got me to buy Killzone this time around though, and I'm really tempted to get NFS: Rivals as well.
That inFamous footage looks outrageous and I'm also pretty pumped to give FFXIV a try on PS4. I played the beta on PC with my five year-old machine and really, really enjoyed it for about 20 levels (with a gamepad!), then walked away for a bit, and then couldn't get back into it because I kept wishing that I could be playing it on my couch in front of the big screen with PSN friends. Been waiting for it since then, so I'm eager to give it a spin. Graphics look great in that trailer.
Edit: Also... Vita remote play of FF14?! Hadn't even thought of that.
I bought Final Fantasy XIV on PS3 when it was on sale for $10, and played until my free trial ran out. Actually, I lost interest before the 30 day trial ended. It isn't bad, just isn't all that interesting IMO.
Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
I'm seriously thinking about trying that FFXIV beta. I've never enjoyed an MMO before but I think it might be worth trying out.
We have a pretty active PA community if you head to the MMO subforum, it's so much better than most MMOs I've played before. Something about the game is genuinely fun and brings me back day after day.
I think of upcoming next gen action RPGs that aren't from known developers, Lords of the Fallen interests me more than that. Especially with those lady clothes and that panning ass shot they forced in to that reveal trailer.
Posts
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2014/02/12/final-fantasy-xiv-hits-ps4-april-14th-beta-details-new-trailer/
They just said later this year.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Yeah I really don't care about 30 or 60 fps. What really gets me is when your game hits something intensive and turns into a slideshow. As long as that's kept to a minimum, I'll take smoother over faster. Shadow Fall was 30 fps and it didn't bother me.
That's big for Japan.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Regarding screen aspect ratios, if you don't want black bars on your screen, almost all remotely new TV's have auto cropping/zooming built in.
I don't mind the black bars because if I see black bars it means the director's vision for the film involved a different aspect ratio than my TV. I can either see all of the director's vision, or use all the real estate on my TV.
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
Awesomesauce, totally gonna have to get my download on and try it!
I spent money on a big old 60" TV. I'm basically getting the real estate of a TV that cost half the price. Sure, I can do the zoom/stretch thing on my TV but then I'm missing actual parts of the game that might be important. All because the developers chose to use a fraction of my TV, despite the fact that 99% of people playing the game are using a 16:9 aspect ratio (citation needed). It just seems obtuse to do that with a video game.
I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I'm starting to feel the same about movies. I understand the artistic license of the director, I understand that some films are designed for the movie screen rather than the TV in my living room...but it's pretty obnoxious to spend thousands of dollars on top-notch AV equipment and then have a fraction of it being used because of "artistic reasons." I'm not a movie buff by any stretch of the imagination, so I'd very much love if all blurays had a 16:9 version on it.
XBL : lJesse Custerl | MWO: Jesse Custer | Best vid ever. | 2nd best vid ever.
If you're watching a blu-ray with black bars, it's because the director of the film shot it in that aspect ratio. To maintain the aspect ratio while filling up your TV would require a TV that can display a much higher resolution than your TV can. If you use the zoom on your TV, then you're getting what you want. You get a stretched image, but at least you get to fill up your whole TV screen. =P
Also, 2.40:1 is not "for the movie screen" and 1.78:1 "for the living room." Plenty of people shoot movies in 1.85:1 too, if what they want is not super wide shots but rather taller less wide ones. It's two different aspect ratios used for different shots.
Ready at Dawn chose to do The Order in super wide because they want to have super wide shots in their game. It's a visual design choice.
If you're spending thousands on high quality AV equipment, it seems like you'd try to better understand the fact that 2.40:1 super wide being maintained on a blu-ray is giving you the version of a film that the creators intended, which to me gives you the best experience possible.
There are so many amazing super wide shots in film that they couldn't put in their films if you convinced them to shoot everything in 1.85:1
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Edit:
Also, apparently if your game title isn't Knack, Famitsu loves it.
I'm familiar with the technical limitations and the reason I have black bars. My disagreement is that you can spend $1800 on a 60" HDTV and get a fraction of the usable space. If I wanted a 40" image, I could've saved a bunch of money and bought a 40" TV. At least, in theory I could, because if I had I'd probably end up with a much tinier image on that 40" TV.
I specifically stated I'm not a movie buff and I get that film guys have their reasons for doing these things. In a game though, it seems obnoxious. You know that the game is only on PS4, only on HDMI, and a vast majority of living room TV's are going to play at a certain aspect ratio. You're sacrificing all of this for super wide shots in gameplay. That's going to have implications on the game, especially as a shooter. Are we playing in a flat city? Is any verticality in the levels going to suffer?
Part of this boils down to me having an admittedly unrefined eye for films. Sure, a wide shot that the creators meticulously designed is cool. But I personally would enjoy a shot that's 80% as cool that's using 100% of my big screen instead of the opposite. The numbers are obviously going to vary, and the threshold subjective, but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to be annoyed that a game designer is making that choice for them.
A great compromise, which most designers seem to do, is to give you wide cinematics and full-screen gameplay. I don't mind black bars if it's a wide, panning cityscape. But don't make me feel like I'm Levar Burton while I'm shooting mans because your artistic vision dictated a wider shot.
I was only really replying with regard to movies, not games. In movies, shootig in 2.40:1 can be crucial to the experience of the film. For games, I'm pretty skeptical.
I actually agree that it seems weird to do 2.40:1 in a game. To be completely honest, it indicates to me that the game designer is more worried about being cinematic than they are delivering good gameplay to me, and MOST of the time, that is a huge red flag to me. If i'm playing Telltale's games or something, sure, It's an interactive story movie game. But if I'm playing a 3rd person shooter, I care a hell of a lot more about your shooting mechanics and the general gameplay than you trying to give me a super wide shot of something.
For me it's just a waiting game with The Order. All these choices could lead to an amazing game, or it could flop hugely. Just because everybody wants to hype the shit out of it because it's an interesting sounding new IP does not make it a good game. I've liked what i've played from Ready at Dawn so far, so they get the benefit of the doubt from me, but we'll see.
I do understand movies and why they get Black Bars. I firmly believe that it had its place back in the days of 4:3 TVs. I also think that the whole Stretch/Zoom function of TVs suck, because all they do is crop it down without regard to the image. You need a human who actually cares about the film do the 16:9 cropping in order to ensure that nothing is lost.
If there are people out there who like black bars, good for them. The black bars annoy the hell out of me, but each his own.
I don't like black bars, but if a film is shot in 2.40:1 and my TV can't display that aspect ratio without black bars, I most definitely want black bars instead of the other alternatives, which are to stretch it or to outright cut parts of the image out.
Something is always lost in cropping, by definition.
You either accept the black bars, or you use your TV's zoom/crop feature.
Or you launch a crusade to get all media content producers to adhere to whatever aspect ratio your TV happens to employ.
Or you can buy a whole variety of TVs, in different aspect ratios, and use whichever one fits the aspect ratio of the content you are currently consuming.
Some of these choices are more realistic than others.
I also find the assertion that being able to see more to the left and right of you would be detrimental to a first person shooter game to be highly suspect. I think being able to see such a wider angle would be extremely helpful.
In fact, I think you can demonstrate mathematically that if your opponents are taller than they are wide (and the average male is more than 3 times as tall as they are wide), trading field of view above and below you for field of view to the left and right of you is almost always going to be a good trade. You will be able to greatly increase the potential number of assailants you can see at once. This has been true in just about every FPS I've played - I'm constantly trying to increase the horizontal field of view.
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
If you want to really hate black bars for good reason, hate them in Dragon's Dogma, where the game doesn't have a very good engine anyway, they used them to try to help the performance, and yet it still crawls in frame rate when you cast spells. =P And then you keep playing anyway because it does enough thing so right that you can't help yourself.
Yes, but the guys on the balcony fill lets say six feet of vertical space. I need only to see part of them to know they are there.
Guys to the left and right of me fill about 18" of horizontal space.
Simply because of the way humanoids are shaped, a wider, shorter cross section is going to intersect more targets than a narrower, taller cross section.
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
Everything is disabled apart from:
There's so many drones flying about that you have to stay in cover (you've only got melee so you can't shoot them down). Then if you have the other team pinned down in the topless shipping container exits to the base (the left exit of the base, right side if you're attacking) you have great moments when either team is just waiting on either side of the container for the other team to make a bad move and then you all jump in and melee kill them all with your knife. It's quite surreal.
On the last game I played I had 56 kills, none of which were from the support drone, just me running about and slicing at helghans.
True, good point. Designers can easily construct the encounters to best show off whatever aspect ratio they've chosen.
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
Or I can just be annoyed at black bars and occasionally complain about them on random forums, making a fool of myself.
...
Yeah, that seems like the easiest plan. I think I'll go with that. :P
That sounds pretty awesome. I need to jump into some KZ multiplayer again, had a blast the first week or two and then fell off hard as BF4 dug its claws into me.
Here's Sessler's take on Second Son, with some new gameplay:
Pretty dope for $100. The 7.1 is better than I was expecting, instant setup on ps4 and PC. Made me realize I need a real sound solution for my tv. Been missing out on a lot of audio with all of these blurays I own.
Edit: Also... Vita remote play of FF14?! Hadn't even thought of that.
Direct link to the Infamous BRoll video, in case you didn't want to bother with talking head commentary.
We have a pretty active PA community if you head to the MMO subforum, it's so much better than most MMOs I've played before. Something about the game is genuinely fun and brings me back day after day.
Looks interesting. I got mixed feelings on the designs for the ladies.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA