Options

About the Penny Arcade Job Posting

1356731

Posts

  • Options
    JackdawGinJackdawGin Engineer New YorkRegistered User regular
    Hunter wrote: »
    Elbasunu wrote: »
    Overloaded wrote: »
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    Overloaded wrote: »
    courtneyj wrote: »
    Penny Arcade has one of the most amazing pools of talent in the world they can draw from.
    Penny Arcade is a business that's based around a website.
    Penny Arcade could be competitive and find the most amazing person who enjoys varied tasks who can turn the managed web side of this into a masterpiece. But that person isn't going to get out of bed for less than 140k in Redmond, WA.
    I just hope they're going to be competitive enough to get someone who can show them what's possible when you get someone well versed in tech. It's hard to find those people at a young enough period to buy into the description. If 24/7 oncall wasn't on there and it said on call as needed that would make a big difference in perception.

    This! By refusing to pay a competitive wage, they're limiting their talent pool severely. I'm sure they could find a PA superfan currently working at Microsoft who would love to get out of a corporate environment, would be happy to take a pay cut as long as it wasn't ridiculous, and would be a great fit with their existing culture.

    One could even infer that they have limited their talent pool to precisely fit the profile of person they are looking for!

    That was my initial impression as well, but now it sounds like they actually just don't want to pay well, which is disappointing. Could just be one of Khoo's games.

    "Khoo's games?"

    I think you are reading way too far into it.

    Roberticus Khooicus sitting on his golden throne deciding whether the losing gladiator will live or die.

    Who will run IT for Bartertown!?!

  • Options
    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    Overloaded wrote: »
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    Overloaded wrote: »
    courtneyj wrote: »
    Penny Arcade has one of the most amazing pools of talent in the world they can draw from.
    Penny Arcade is a business that's based around a website.
    Penny Arcade could be competitive and find the most amazing person who enjoys varied tasks who can turn the managed web side of this into a masterpiece. But that person isn't going to get out of bed for less than 140k in Redmond, WA.
    I just hope they're going to be competitive enough to get someone who can show them what's possible when you get someone well versed in tech. It's hard to find those people at a young enough period to buy into the description. If 24/7 oncall wasn't on there and it said on call as needed that would make a big difference in perception.

    This! By refusing to pay a competitive wage, they're limiting their talent pool severely. I'm sure they could find a PA superfan currently working at Microsoft who would love to get out of a corporate environment, would be happy to take a pay cut as long as it wasn't ridiculous, and would be a great fit with their existing culture.

    One could even infer that they have limited their talent pool to precisely fit the profile of person they are looking for!

    That was my initial impression as well, but now it sounds like they actually just don't want to pay well, which is disappointing. Could just be one of Khoo's games.

    You have no idea what you're talking about. You do not know the people who work at PA or their actual take home pay or benefits.


    Also "khoo's games," what are you even talking about?

    Langly on
  • Options
    courtneyjcourtneyj Newcastle, WARegistered User regular
    Langly wrote: »

    You have no idea what you're talking about. You do not know the people who work at PA or their actual take home pay or benefits.


    Also "khoo's games,"what are you even talking about?

    We know that they don't pay enough for a member of their "family" to be able to save considerably over his living expenses in the greater Seattle area.

  • Options
    JackdawGinJackdawGin Engineer New YorkRegistered User regular
    courtneyj wrote: »
    Langly wrote: »

    You have no idea what you're talking about. You do not know the people who work at PA or their actual take home pay or benefits.


    Also "khoo's games,"what are you even talking about?

    We know that they don't pay enough for a member of their "family" to be able to save considerably over his living expenses in the greater Seattle area.

    What number quantifies "saving considerably" in order to supplement a teaching salary?

  • Options
    LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    Is it really appropriate to discuss individuals' wages?

  • Options
    MetalbourneMetalbourne Inside a cluster b personalityRegistered User regular
    Larlar wrote: »
    Larlar wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    Overloaded wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    IBTYM you started this off by diagnosing a depression you weren't there to see through the internet and then making a declarative statement that the job was awful and no one over 30 would ever apply for it because it's objectively awful to anyone not in their 20's somehow, then sure, that's what you were doing.

    No, I asked the OP *why* he thought his depression was unrelated to the job.

    Maybe a family member died or some shit. Why can't you take his word for it?

    larlariwantanswers.jpg

    I think I done fucked up in my career path. Historians never get to join the cool companies.

    Revisionist historians do.

    Yeah, but they're all a bunch of douchebag bros.

    They weren't always that way, according to them.

    A new message came down the pipe.

    WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THE DOUCHEBAG BROS EVERYONE STRIVES TO BE.

  • Options
    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    So, not having any experience with the duties and skills called for in the job posting, but just as an observer, my impression of the reactions to this whole thing here and on the other forums discussing the topic are:

    1. People who are not IT/web professionals generally see nothing wrong with the job posting or are at least very willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

    2. People who are IE/web professionals (such as the denizens of the sysadmin/IT and programming threads on Moe's) have almost universally reacted to the job posting with something between derisive laughter and outrage.

    3. Among people who are not professionals in the field in question, the posting from the outgoing guy has improved impressions of the job posting.

    4. Among people who are professionals in this field, said posting has either had no effect on opinions or reinforced and worsened negative impressions.

  • Options
    DVGDVG No. 1 Honor Student Nether Institute, Evil AcademyRegistered User regular
    courtneyj wrote: »
    Langly wrote: »

    You have no idea what you're talking about. You do not know the people who work at PA or their actual take home pay or benefits.


    Also "khoo's games,"what are you even talking about?

    We know that they don't pay enough for a member of their "family" to be able to save considerably over his living expenses in the greater Seattle area.

    "Save Considerably" in this case meaning being able to go from one of the top-class jobs in the country right now to one that is paid beans and maintain a standard of living. That is not that same thing. It's closer to being able to retire in 5 years and work his dream job to fill the days.

    And at the Khoo and A at PAX, it was revealed that they had a buyout offer on the table, for millions, which they were going to split evenly across the company, and not one employee voted to take it, since they'd rather keep being PA than get rich. This is a perfectly valid life perspective.

    Diablo 3 - DVG#1857
  • Options
    HunterHunter Chemist with a heart of Au Registered User regular
    Liiya wrote: »
    Is it really appropriate to discuss individuals' wages?

    It's how Americans know how many guns, fishing boats, 4x4 trucks, and cowboy hats each other have. Sort of like a pecking order among grizzly bears, wolves, or other top predators.

  • Options
    SassoriSassori Registered User regular
    Larlar wrote: »
    Larlar wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    Overloaded wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    IBTYM you started this off by diagnosing a depression you weren't there to see through the internet and then making a declarative statement that the job was awful and no one over 30 would ever apply for it because it's objectively awful to anyone not in their 20's somehow, then sure, that's what you were doing.

    No, I asked the OP *why* he thought his depression was unrelated to the job.

    Maybe a family member died or some shit. Why can't you take his word for it?

    larlariwantanswers.jpg

    I think I done fucked up in my career path. Historians never get to join the cool companies.

    Revisionist historians do.

    Yeah, but they're all a bunch of douchebag bros.

    They weren't always that way, according to them.

    @Larlar if you keep up with this history talk you are only going to make me fall madly in love with you.

  • Options
    LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    Hunter wrote: »
    Liiya wrote: »
    Is it really appropriate to discuss individuals' wages?

    It's how Americans know how many guns, fishing boats, 4x4 trucks, and cowboy hats each other have. Sort of like a pecking order among grizzly bears, wolves, or other top predators.

    Ahhhh, well thats important stuff!

  • Options
    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    has anyone ever seen Overloaded and LearnedHand together in the same room?


    hmmmmm

  • Options
    SassoriSassori Registered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    So, not having any experience with the duties and skills called for in the job posting, but just as an observer, my impression of the reactions to this whole thing here and on the other forums discussing the topic are:

    1. People who are not IT/web professionals generally see nothing wrong with the job posting or are at least very willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

    2. People who are IE/web professionals (such as the denizens of the sysadmin/IT and programming threads on Moe's) have almost universally reacted to the job posting with something between derisive laughter and outrage.

    3. Among people who are not professionals in the field in question, the posting from the outgoing guy has improved impressions of the job posting.

    4. Among people who are professionals in this field, said posting has either had no effect on opinions or reinforced and worsened negative impressions.

    I've heard plenty of people that would be elligible to apply for the position say that it was a pretty reasonable posting.

  • Options
    KakodaimonosKakodaimonos Code fondler Helping the 1% get richerRegistered User regular
    Hunter wrote: »
    Liiya wrote: »
    Is it really appropriate to discuss individuals' wages?

    It's how Americans know how many guns, fishing boats, 4x4 trucks, and cowboy hats each other have. Sort of like a pecking order among grizzly bears, wolves, or other top predators.

    I always measure my salary by the number of Trucknutz I will be able to buy.

  • Options
    JackdawGinJackdawGin Engineer New YorkRegistered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »

    2. People who are IE/web professionals (such as the denizens of the sysadmin/IT and programming threads on Moe's) have almost universally reacted to the job posting with something between derisive laughter and outrage.

    So that explains why I still can't print to the draft printer.

  • Options
    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    courtneyj wrote: »
    Langly wrote: »

    You have no idea what you're talking about. You do not know the people who work at PA or their actual take home pay or benefits.


    Also "khoo's games,"what are you even talking about?

    We know that they don't pay enough for a member of their "family" to be able to save considerably over his living expenses in the greater Seattle area.

    Yeah, he couldn't save enough to go from making a living wage to not making a living wage.

    That

    Is how most jobs work.

  • Options
    The Otaku SuppositoryThe Otaku Suppository Bawstan New EnglandRegistered User regular
    Larlar wrote: »
    Larlar wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    Overloaded wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    IBTYM you started this off by diagnosing a depression you weren't there to see through the internet and then making a declarative statement that the job was awful and no one over 30 would ever apply for it because it's objectively awful to anyone not in their 20's somehow, then sure, that's what you were doing.

    No, I asked the OP *why* he thought his depression was unrelated to the job.

    Maybe a family member died or some shit. Why can't you take his word for it?

    larlariwantanswers.jpg

    I think I done fucked up in my career path. Historians never get to join the cool companies.

    Revisionist historians do.

    Yeah, but they're all a bunch of douchebag bros.

    They weren't always that way, according to them.

    New theories suggest aliens did it.

  • Options
    JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    I've seen a lot of backlash lately against IT and programming jobs being not paid a fair wage or drastically overworked, so I'm not really surprised this job posting hit such a nerve, especially with some of the phrasing used ("we're bad at work-life balance"), even though there's plenty of people who would be happy with the job and enjoy doing the work / being part of the team. Wouldn't apply for the job myself because I don't do too well without a solid work-life barrier, but that's just a personal preference.

    Steam | SW-0844-0908-6004 and my Switch code
  • Options
    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Seriously though, I should be done with my nursing degree in like a year and a half, 2 at most. If PA needs an on staff nurse, just give me a buzz. I'll heal your wounds

  • Options
    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    Hey, let's not be butts for Kenneth's send-off. :\

    Miss me? Find me on:

    Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
    Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
  • Options
    LarlarLarlar consecutive normal brunches Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    Sassori wrote: »
    Larlar wrote: »
    Larlar wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    Overloaded wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    IBTYM you started this off by diagnosing a depression you weren't there to see through the internet and then making a declarative statement that the job was awful and no one over 30 would ever apply for it because it's objectively awful to anyone not in their 20's somehow, then sure, that's what you were doing.

    No, I asked the OP *why* he thought his depression was unrelated to the job.

    Maybe a family member died or some shit. Why can't you take his word for it?

    larlariwantanswers.jpg

    I think I done fucked up in my career path. Historians never get to join the cool companies.

    Revisionist historians do.

    Yeah, but they're all a bunch of douchebag bros.

    They weren't always that way, according to them.

    @Larlar if you keep up with this history talk you are only going to make me fall madly in love with you.

    Are you saying you'd want to storm my Bastille?

    iwantanswers3.png
  • Options
    DVGDVG No. 1 Honor Student Nether Institute, Evil AcademyRegistered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    So, not having any experience with the duties and skills called for in the job posting, but just as an observer, my impression of the reactions to this whole thing here and on the other forums discussing the topic are:

    1. People who are not IT/web professionals generally see nothing wrong with the job posting or are at least very willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

    2. People who are IE/web professionals (such as the denizens of the sysadmin/IT and programming threads on Moe's) have almost universally reacted to the job posting with something between derisive laughter and outrage.

    3. Among people who are not professionals in the field in question, the posting from the outgoing guy has improved impressions of the job posting.

    4. Among people who are professionals in this field, said posting has either had no effect on opinions or reinforced and worsened negative impressions.

    I am a professional in this field, and I would apply for it if I were in a place in my life where I could move to Seattle. If I were, then I have various ideas (and in some case functional prototypes) of ways PA could expand some of it's brands and increase their value and presence on the web, and it would be rad to actually be ablt to talk to them about it and show them what I already built in my free time.

    Really, internet outrage is just exhausting. There were no specific figures dicussed, but because they were honest that people at this company tend to spend a lot of time at work and don't necessarily get paid top dollar they think they have the right to complain endlessly despite knowing no specifics.

    Diablo 3 - DVG#1857
  • Options
    TubeTube Registered User admin
    I would suggest that the fact that teaching does not provide a living wage is a bigger problem than anything else mentioned in this kerfuffle.

  • Options
    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I would suggest that the fact that teaching does not provide a living wage is a bigger problem than anything else mentioned in this kerfuffle.

    Yeah, it's ridiculous

  • Options
    CybitCybit Merch Underling RedmondRegistered User regular
    courtneyj wrote: »
    Langly wrote: »

    You have no idea what you're talking about. You do not know the people who work at PA or their actual take home pay or benefits.


    Also "khoo's games,"what are you even talking about?

    We know that they don't pay enough for a member of their "family" to be able to save considerably over his living expenses in the greater Seattle area.

    As someone who lives out here (and has for 6 years), I know that I would have to continue making my current salary (~100k) for about 10 more years, while continuing to split a 60 year old house with 4 other people, and having approximately $300 spending money per month for non-essentials (gas, food, tools, etc).

    If I wanted to say, have my own place? Probably never at that salary. (Teachers out here are not paid well, either, unfortunately)

    I don't think people understand how expensive the Seattle area is. It's really, really expensive.

  • Options
    HunterHunter Chemist with a heart of Au Registered User regular
    Hunter wrote: »
    Liiya wrote: »
    Is it really appropriate to discuss individuals' wages?

    It's how Americans know how many guns, fishing boats, 4x4 trucks, and cowboy hats each other have. Sort of like a pecking order among grizzly bears, wolves, or other top predators.

    I always measure my salary by the number of Trucknutz I will be able to buy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhnUgAaea4M

  • Options
    JackdawGinJackdawGin Engineer New YorkRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I would suggest that the fact that teaching does not provide a living wage is a bigger problem than anything else mentioned in this kerfuffle.

    Agreed. I'm astounded that the fact that a medium company does not pay a "competitive" wage for IT inspires more outrage than the fact that teaching doesn't even pay a living wage.

  • Options
    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    teachers are the enemy, because of unions and evolution and summer vacations and warghle barghle

  • Options
    stebuustebuu Crabs are fucking crazy, and I hate horses Registered User regular
    Pithy soundbites

    "Company that rails against gaming hiring practices utilizes gaming hiring practices"

    or my favorite, from a gaming industry professional:

    "Wanted: technoserf"

    I do appreciate that PA appears to be very honest with the job posting, and I believe they will have no trouble filling it.

  • Options
    JackdawGinJackdawGin Engineer New YorkRegistered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    teachers are the enemy, because of unions and evolution and summer vacations and warghle barghle

    Are you saying my great grandpappy was a monkey?

  • Options
    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    JackdawGin wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    teachers are the enemy, because of unions and evolution and summer vacations and warghle barghle

    Are you saying my great grandpappy was a monkey?

    well that's ridiculous, monkeys still exist!

  • Options
    KadithKadith Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I would suggest that the fact that teaching does not provide a living wage is a bigger problem than anything else mentioned in this kerfuffle.

    Everyone in the Education fields except for administrators are paid shit.

    Children are our future etc.

    zkHcp.jpg
  • Options
    GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited November 2013
    I've figured that if you watch PA: The Series, you already have a good idea what the work environment is like and that the job posting involves a fair amount of spillover into what other people at PA do. Four people aren't needed because, in essence, the first three are already there doing various bits and parts of the job and taking some of the weight off you.

    I'm sure that when all is said and done, the job will be filled, very ably, and I'm going to stick my neck out and guess that it will wind up going to someone already on these boards, who already knows the score and is familiar with what Khoo is likely to put you through over the course of the hiring process. A lot of the people expressing outrage, I think, are people Khoo would eliminate very early on in a 'who fits the office culture' cull anyway.

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
  • Options
    HunterHunter Chemist with a heart of Au Registered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    JackdawGin wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    teachers are the enemy, because of unions and evolution and summer vacations and warghle barghle

    Are you saying my great grandpappy was a monkey?

    well that's ridiculous, monkeys still exist!

    Well three out of four of them anyway.

  • Options
    Virgil_Leads_YouVirgil_Leads_You Proud Father House GardenerRegistered User regular
    You should be able to buy and live in a tiny 20k place. Our society is really messed up, with regard to property values.

    VayBJ4e.png
  • Options
    JackdawGinJackdawGin Engineer New YorkRegistered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    JackdawGin wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    teachers are the enemy, because of unions and evolution and summer vacations and warghle barghle

    Are you saying my great grandpappy was a monkey?

    well that's ridiculous, monkeys still exist!

    evolution == better than right?

  • Options
    RichardTauberRichardTauber Kvlt Registered User regular
    100k is a lot of money. A LOT. How fucking expensive is seattle?

  • Options
    IcyLiquidIcyLiquid Two Steaks Montreal, QuebecAdministrator, Vanilla Staff vanilla
    DVG wrote: »
    And at the Khoo and A at PAX, it was revealed that they had a buyout offer on the table, for millions, which they were going to split evenly across the company, and not one employee voted to take it, since they'd rather keep being PA than get rich. This is a perfectly valid life perspective.

    This right here should be the argument ender as far as whether or not they are exploitative or fair minded. I've never heard of that kind of arrangement during the sale of a company of any meaningful size. Extremely generous.

  • Options
    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    Larlar wrote: »
    Sassori wrote: »
    Larlar wrote: »
    Larlar wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    Overloaded wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    IBTYM you started this off by diagnosing a depression you weren't there to see through the internet and then making a declarative statement that the job was awful and no one over 30 would ever apply for it because it's objectively awful to anyone not in their 20's somehow, then sure, that's what you were doing.

    No, I asked the OP *why* he thought his depression was unrelated to the job.

    Maybe a family member died or some shit. Why can't you take his word for it?

    larlariwantanswers.jpg

    I think I done fucked up in my career path. Historians never get to join the cool companies.

    Revisionist historians do.

    Yeah, but they're all a bunch of douchebag bros.

    They weren't always that way, according to them.

    @Larlar if you keep up with this history talk you are only going to make me fall madly in love with you.

    Are you saying you'd want to storm my Bastille?

    I'd like to send my Lenin into your Russia

    if your know what I mean

    Miss me? Find me on:

    Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
    Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
  • Options
    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    the issue as I see it...

    for the record: i don't give a shit

    but a lot of people do and here is how I interpret it

    good software developers in non-game industries with any kind of experience actually do tend to command at least some combination of great salary and great working conditions. the basic fact is that quality talented self-starting computer programmers who can wear multiple hats are an extreme rarity and they tend to not leave the driveway for less than 6 figures in Seattle dollars

    so when people see the modest job requirements listed out, and the fact that the salary will probably be low and the personal time close to nil, they turn their nose up... falsely assuming that PA must be looking for them or someone similar to them, and have made an error in their assumption that they'll be able to find someone who is so eager to work for PA that they'll forgo salary and perks just to do so


    well, obviously they will find someone like that, since they have in the past

    There are going to be plenty of young engineers in their 20's working in Silicon Valley or one of its satellites whose stock isn't worth quite what they thought it would be and are looking for a change. At least with PA they'll have the opportunity to control their work and have ownership of it, which is something that most young software engineers don't get to enjoy.

    And eventually they'll personally outgrow the job and look to move on to less stressful pastures, just like the OP is and whoever came before him did. This ain't a 20 year gig with a pension. It's a young man's game, a superb life experience, and a great career launcher.

This discussion has been closed.